How often do you talk to aging parents?

[manderz]

Thank you for the well wishes, Circe!

I forgot another point, too. I'll be honest, boundary setting has been difficult with my mom. She has a notorious history of a lack of boundaries. She would call very frequently and talk about nothing, or tell the same story 4 times over in a conversation. She'd also relate to me on a very different level than I was comfortable with (stories you share with very close friends, not your daughter), and share very openly with anyone at all, right down to the grocery store cashier. I'd try and set boundaries, and it would just not work. I'd try and end a conversation politely, and she'd just keep talking anyway, as if I'd never said anything. I started using ways to end the conversation that were "out of my control" when the conversation started to run into rehashing the same story territory, or to a place I was not comfortable with. Please don't flame me for it, but I'd tell her my phone battery was about to die, and then I'd hang up. She was never suspicious that I was being less than honest, and it gave me an out to not be on the phone for a while with her, as I'd obviously have to charge my phone for a while. I felt terribly guilty the first couple of times, and it actually only took a few times of doing it to help cut down on excessive amount and length of phone calls. I would try everything before I resorted to that, I'd try at least twice to end the conversation before I pulled the dead battery trick. We're at a much better place now than we've been, I think ever, with regards to boundaries.

 

[monarch64]

Thanks for your response, Circe, glad I rang your bell. So, I just abuse caller ID and don't answer if I don't feel like talking to my mother. She then leaves a voicemail or emails me and I get around to listening/reading when I feel like it. Um, this took years. A significant change happened a few summers ago, when she emailed and berated me for a situation she'd heard about through the family grapevine. I just emailed her back and told her she had the facts wrong and that since she had overstepped her boundaries I would be taking a break from communicating with her. I didn't speak with her or visit for, oh, 2-3 months. She made the next move and invited me to lunch one day, and we had a pleasant enough time, didn't dwell on the past but both remarked that it had been hurtful for both of us. After that, I got married and announced our pregnancy, and things have been better since. I'm not sure how I worked up the gumption to set that boundary. I had always seen myself as the child, or weaker person in our relationship. That time, though, I realized I was not being treated as an adult, and that I bore some blame because I had not asserted myself (too afraid--what if she reacted negatively and/or rejected me?). I was 33 then, she was 67, coincidentally.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Thank you for the well wishes, Circe!

I forgot another point, too. I'll be honest, boundary setting has been difficult with my mom. She has a notorious history of a lack of boundaries. She would call very frequently and talk about nothing, or tell the same story 4 times over in a conversation. She'd also relate to me on a very different level than I was comfortable with (stories you share with very close friends, not your daughter), and share very openly with anyone at all, right down to the grocery store cashier. I'd try and set boundaries, and it would just not work. I'd try and end a conversation politely, and she'd just keep talking anyway, as if I'd never said anything. I started using ways to end the conversation that were "out of my control" when the conversation started to run into rehashing the same story territory, or to a place I was not comfortable with. Please don't flame me for it, but I'd tell her my phone battery was about to die, and then I'd hang up. She was never suspicious that I was being less than honest, and it gave me an out to not be on the phone for a while with her, as I'd obviously have to charge my phone for a while. I felt terribly guilty the first couple of times, and it actually only took a few times of doing it to help cut down on excessive amount and length of phone calls. I would try everything before I resorted to that, I'd try at least twice to end the conversation before I pulled the dead battery trick. We're at a much better place now than we've been, I think ever, with regards to boundaries.

Mendez - don't feel like you have to defend yourself w/the low battery excuse. You do what you have to do. I admit there have been a few times I've felt trapped in conversation and the person has made an obvious excuses and I've been relieved. There have also been vice versa where I've been stuck and I even yelled at one relative over the phone bc she talked for hours and I just sat there and exploded at the end! Low battery is a nice excuse. Better than telling a person they're driving you nuts.

Relatives are easier IMO, then perpetual mommy-friend talking expectation stress. Conversations bc kids are friends and we have to put up w/this to make sure the kids have stable social lives during formative years. Circle - that might be next on your boundary setting.

 

[luv2sparkle]

I really like Smith's post Circe, I think she makes some valuable points. I so understand your frustration. My closest family members are gone now, but boy did they play these games when they were alive. By the time the last one died, it had gotten so ugly, I was so relived that he was gone. Is that terrible? It was such a relief that I never had to take the phone calls that would wipe me out for a week with the nastiness.

My husband calls his parents. So I answered once a month. I NEVER speak to them unless I absolutely have to. There have been a couple incidents that they have accused both of us of saying something that we absolutely didn't. Once they said that the kids and I were making fun of them and laughing at them in the background. I think he feels guilty. He hasn't spoken to them yet for the holiday. They live about 4 1/2 hours from us. They will want us to either host or come up. I don't think we can manage either this year. That is sad, but it was their choice to move that far away.

I hope you can try some of the thing Smith suggested. I hope you can find some relief. That kind of family stuff kind of feels like it starts to overwhelm your life. It is easy to say, don't let them make you feel guilty, but harder to do. But my goodness, you are entitled to a little bit of peace in your life! However you can get it. If it takes them being 'mad' at you, so be it.

 

[Indylady]

Every day, but about 2-5 minutes on average. Maybe once a week, 10 minutes. They have some boundary issues too, but are pretty understanding if I say I have to go, no matter what the reason--like, a valid but not serious reason like putting away groceries, because I just got in the door, or cause I'm busy is just fine.

 

[Smith1942]

[quote="Smith1942|1387585848|3578414"Smith, THANK you. We cross-posted, so I saw this after I put up the mondo-response, but this is exactly the kind of thing I need to hear. I've been doing the first two for a while, with little-to-no effect, and I've just entered phase three, to much wailing and gnashing of the teeth, and it really DOES feel like it's all-or-nothing: either I cave and apologize and go back to miserably talking to them on a regular basis, or I'm an orphan.

There has to be an in-between where my kid gets to know his grandparents but I'm not quietly wishing for a nice Ambien cocktail every time they call. Right?

You're welcome! Regarding what you wish for above, yes it should be possible, but there are many people in this world who seem to have an irresistible urge to stuff up what could have been a perfectly pleasant situation. So to be honest, I wouldn't get your hopes up. Your parents sound as if they have issues - is untreated mental illness a possibility? - so you should probably just aim to do whatever you have to do in order to stop being driven mad by them. This situation can't be doing your emotional well-being any good.

In another post you mentioned the all-or-nothing scenario - i.e. you do what they want or you're an orphan. Your reptilian brain is designed to experience this as a threat to your survival. I believe that early responses to our parents run deep. However, like their control over you, this feeling is an illusion. When my fave parent dies (yes I have a firm and clear favourite - we reap what we sow; long story) I will feel as if I've been cut loose from a tethering rope and will go spinning off into the universe. Anchor firmly gone. I know how scary the idea of being cut loose from the parents is, and I think many of us feel this way.

Have you read the book Feel The Fear And Do It Anyway? It basically takes you through what would happen if the worst-case scenario occurred, and makes you see that you would cope with it. If they really did abandon you, they're not worth having and your son would be safe from the toxic influence. The more likely scenario is that they'd come round after you set strong boundaries, although it might take a while. But the point is, you do NOT need them, even if the reptilian brain is feeling threatened by their threats. Even if you had the best parents in the world, you'd have to do without them eventually and you would cope with that, as most everyone does. So their threats and control and the feeling that being effectively orphaned is really threatening - it's all just one big illusion.

Right, gotta go. off to spend three days in London at my MIL's house. Lucky moi.


ETA: Your comment about being swept with adrenaline when trying to grow eyelashes - hahahahahaaaaaa! You were completely right to protect your baby and yourself from toxic influences.

 

[Jennifer W]

First off, thank you ALL for weighing in. I'm going to respond to the people who were writing directly to my situation and not in response to the general question (though I appreciate you guys weighing in, too ... and am quietly squirreling away details so that when my kid is grown, he's in your camp and not mine!).

On average, I speak to my mother either in person or on the phone once a week. That is about all I can handle.

I would LOVE to be able to get it down to that. Possibly on a schedule, so every conversation won't begin with "Why haven't you called?" I notice a number of people say there's a set time, like a phone date ... how do y'all get parents to agree to that?

Maybe once or twice a month. We don't talk on the phone, but do text occasionally, and we visit every two or three weeks. It's as much as I can cope with.

Jen, could I ask ... when you visit, any tricks for keeping agita to a minimum? The last time they were here (for my son's 2nd birthday), I ground my teeth hard enough that I chipped one. NO WANTY.

My mom I talk to maybe twice a week. My dad I talk to on major holidays.

DH talks to his parents on major holidays/birthdays only. No bad blood between anyone we just don't talk frequently.

This sounds idyllic and laid-back. I salute you.

I cast more than once per month but it's probably more like once a week...sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less...

I'm sure she wishes it was every day...

Visiting is about once a month...sometimes more, sometimes less...

She probably wishes it was more too. She does try to give me the guilt trip about it once in a while, and often, it works...I mean I know they won't be around forever.

But I'm a loner, and don't much like visiting or talking on the phone, so any more than this takes a lot to do.

ETA: I should add...my parents do sound like a delight compared to most people's parents...they are generally positive, upbeat people, always been able to take care of themselves, always been there for us, pretty much don't meddle in our business, etc. They're far from perfect, of course, but they're not miserable, etc. So it's really not about "them" why I don't visit or call more...

ETA2: Circe, my mother used to be the same way with the phone calls. If I didn't call every day, she wouldn't talk to me when I did call...she'd tell my father to tell me she didn't want to talk to me. It took me YEARS to get the courage to not call every day and be OK with her getting mad. It was really hard. But I did it. It's probably one of the reasons I hate the phone so much - all those years of being obligated to call.

CJ, I'm glad you found a balance. Could I ask you how you got past the part where she got mad? Did you just put your head down and go through it, did you have a talk where you agreed on things ...? I've been stuck in this all-or-nothing space for too long, and while right now I'm appreciating the "nothing," I, too, realize they won't be around forever ... so I'd like to hopefully get past the constant recrimination. I'm just damned if I know how to do it.

Circe, it is ok to set boundaries. They gave you life, but they do not own you. I say the same about my child--I brought her into the world, but she doesn't BELONG to me. I am guiding her into becoming an independent human being who is a productive and positive member of society. That doesn't mean she owes me a damn thing. The last thing I want is for her to feel suffocated or imposed upon by me.

I have distanced myself from family members for various reasons, mostly for my own mental/emotional well-being. I do not feel guilty because I don't allow anyone to make me feel guilty about it.

ETA: you are not a bad daughter! A parent calling their child a traitor, or threatening to disown them ("you have no mother") is what I would consider abusive and if I were you I wouldn't want to speak to them anymore, either. I'm so sorry you've had to deal with this for so long. Maybe it's time to break the cycle?

Monarch, I agree with you 1000% (add some zeros for good measure, delicate sensibilities of mathematicians the world over be damned). When I look at my husband's family, where he calls once a week or so, no pressure, sometimes missing a week or two without hassle, as a result of which he actually looks forward to calling them, as compared to mine, where my shoulders tense up when I hear their ring-tones ... yikes, what a world of difference. I definitely want to model my son's relationship with us on the husband's family/the abstract ideal, not on mine.

Your post actually really rang a bell with me: half of the conversation with my mom today was about how they'd sacrificed so much for me - immigrating before I was conceived! dad switching careers! mom going to childhood development classes, even! - and all I could think was, "... didn't realize it was quid pro quo." If I had, perhaps two-year-old me wouldn't have signed that contract in her own blood ....

I very much want to break the cycle. I'm trying to. But because I'm so used to the all-or-nothing thing, I'm stumped on how to establish an infrequent calling cycle with non-abusive conversations. I definitely plan to set the verbal boundaries and keep them (I did today, which makes me half relieved and half ashamed, 'cause it feels wrong to hang up on my 67 year old mother ... even if I had just told her I was seeing a shrink, and she had just responded by saying that was disgusting). But I worry about how to get it to be a healthy regular limited-contact thing, as opposed to an excuse for them to wail and gnash their teeth and indulge all their worst tendencies.

Also, thank you. The support is ... very reassuring. Very.

My parents have split, though they now get along much better than when they were married. We have weekly dinners with them, but the frequency with which we talk varies. Sometimes it's daily, sometimes it's more like once a week. I get a long really well wit my dad, at this point in my life he's more like a friend that a parent, and as a result we obviously talk more often. My mom drives me kinda crazy, and we talk probably half as much as I do with my dad.

Right now, we're talking more than usual, as my grandmother is going through a health crisis, and declining pretty rapidly. We are talking more frequently regarding her, and trying to support one another through a stressful time.

Manderz, I'm sorry to hear your grandmother is feeling poorly. I hope she recovers fully and quickly.

I see my mother and mother in law every other day. My mother lives in a nursing home, but I am her power of attorney. Because of her dementia, I have to see her very often or she gets agitated. I take her to all of her medical appointments. My husband and I share my mother in law with my brother in law and his wife. She lives with us part of the week. I also take her to all medical appointments, which is often. We are part of the sandwich generation with children still at home and responsibilites for our aging parents. I also work part time, but for my husband, so scheduling is easy, at least.

Ruby, could I ask ... how did you get power of attorney? Was it something you agreed on before-hand? The strife with my folks does nothing to assuage my concerns over their health. But insofar as I'm aware, there's also not much I can do: legally, if they want to kill themselves slowly, they can. It is very frustrating, when I hear them talk blithely about things like my mother's blood pressure falling to levels where she should be in an ER, to be unable to do anything.

It sounds like you are doing a lot for both of your parents. I think that's the ... ideal isn't the right word, exactly, because ideally we'd all be in the prime of health until we keeled over at the ripe old age of 108 while engaging in some happy, healthy activity like gardening. But I would love to be able to do something aside from acting as an emotional dumping ground.

Circe, it is ok to set boundaries. They gave you life, but they do not own you. I say the same about my child--I brought her into the world, but she doesn't BELONG to me. I am guiding her into becoming an independent human being who is a productive and positive member of society. That doesn't mean she owes me a damn thing. The last thing I want is for her to feel suffocated or imposed upon by me.

I have distanced myself from family members for various reasons, mostly for my own mental/emotional well-being. I do not feel guilty because I don't allow anyone to make me feel guilty about it.

ETA: you are not a bad daughter! A parent calling their child a traitor, or threatening to disown them ("you have no mother") is what I would consider abusive and if I were you I wouldn't want to speak to them anymore, either. I'm so sorry you've had to deal with this for so long. Maybe it's time to break the cycle?

Monarch is spot on. Circe, I know you've mentioned BPD before but I want to say that it is ALWAYS okay to set boundaries. I urge you to check out the book Emotional Blackmail or any of the applicable Susan Forward books.

As for how often I speak to my parents, it's different for each of them. My dad is not toxic and has a healthy relationship with my family, so we talk about once a week. My mother is extremely toxic and I haven't spoken to her in about a year after she pulled a truly horrific stunt with my 4 year old niece.

Kunzite, thank you for the recommendation - I'll look that up. I tried Stop Walking on Eggshells and just hit a wall - the writing style in a lot of the self-help books is really off-putting to me, so I'm constantly looking for something on this topic that won't make me grind my teeth. Setting boundaries is completely unnatural to me. I push back automatically, but articulating it makes me feel like I need bullet-proof justification (and, no, my own feelings are not enough). Jesus, no wonder it took me 6 1/2 years to break up with my first boyfriend ....

I'm sorry to hear about your mother - and I kind of shudder to ask, but (if you feel comfortable talking about it, otherwise just ignore me), what the hell did she pull with your niece? One of the only things that got me to start drawing boundaries was when I was pregnant and realized they would totally drive me into hysterics on a regular basis with no thought of how it might affect the fetus (I know, I know, probably not much, but since they get our chemicals ... that sounds unpleasant, to be swept with a load of adrenaline etc. when you're still figuring out how to grow eyelashes). And one of the only things getting me to carry it further now is the realization that every damn phone call leaves my hands shaking and puts me in a funk for the rest of the day. I ... would rather not pass that down as The Worstest Heirloom, somehow. A friend with a borderline grandmother pointing out that, inevitably, they'd be doing it to my kid in one way or another sooner of later just kind of sealed the deal ....

I voted for "some other variable"!

My father is an abusive alcoholic. I put up with watching him hurt my mother and having him hurt me (physically and emotionally). My earliest memories are of hiding with my stuffed animals hoping that he wouldn't hurt anyone tonight and hoping that the police wouldn't come again. Maybe if I was good enough it would be okay.
Needless to say, I got sick of this. He got in trouble for a serious crime. I tried to move on with our relationship when he got out of prison. It went okay for a bit -- and then he started drinking again.
I tried to call once a month or so but every call was miserable. He sat there doing nothing but criticizing my choices in life and accusing me of being a bad daughter for not calling more often.

I don't talk to him any more. Haven't since 2004.


My mother is tricky. We've had ups and downs through my whole life. She is an alcoholic also. That caused lots of bad things in life (who chooses to buy more beer when there isn't food for your kids?!?!). She did quit drinking for about 10 years. It took a lot of work, but we'd built a better relationship and spoke once a week or more often. She also finally decided to divorce her husband (not my father, the man she married after him) and started having some respect for herself.
And then she started drinking again.
She's now living with her ex-husband in his parents' house (with his parents) and letting herself be walked all over again.

We saw each other at Thanksgiving (hardly spoke at all) because my grandparents hosted. She did NOT come to my wedding in October. The last time we spoke was probably 2-3 months ago. Not looking promising for a call any time soon.


Life is too short to put up with manipulation and abuse. My father (and now quite possibly my mother) did and said things that were WAY over any reasonable line. I don't need that kind of crud in my life.

TooPatient, I am so, so, so sorry you had to grow up dealing with that. It is amazing what kind of a number parents can do on their kids. You sound very strong and sensible to have drawn your lines and kept to them. That's the kind of thing I'm trying to figure out how to accomplish. Thank you for sharing that. My folks are a different flavor of mean, but it seems like a lot of it still applies, 'cause you're right: life is too short.

I talked to my mom almost every day until several years ago. Dad mentioned once that I was using all mom's minutes on her phone to call and chat. Then we had an argument and didn't talk for a long time. After that, I'd call once a week. Then our son came and my parents pretty much disappeared. We rarely see them anymore. They stopped by the other night b/c they had 5 minutes to kill before they went to the movie. Or they'll stop by to drop off a bunch of grocery sacks for me, and it's in and out hi/bye. I see them about 15 minutes a month. I used to call and invite mom places but she always had to "ask" dad first if it was ok, and I'm just like whatever, it's not worth it. So I quit. We used to have them over once a week for supper and the casino is more important, so we quit. They come for Thanksgiving and Christmas, and dad will check his watch 100 times.

I'll add that since *I* only see my parents 15 minutes a month, that's all the attention my KIDS get too. THAT makes me mad, but whatever, that's their decision, I guess!

Packrat, that stinks. One wonders what on earth they could be thinking to miss out on time with a grand-baby. I would say that I hope they see the error of their ways soon, but given the impetus of my starting this thread, I'll amend that to, only if you want them to. Oy.

Does text count? I am constantly texting my mom and sisters, multiple times a day. Actually speaking on the phone, I would say at least once a month. I voted based on phone calls.

Texts totally count. Your relationship sounds healthy! I am glad to hear it can be done.

Am I being a bad daughter if I, a) politely refuse to listen to any more of the criticism and flatly tell them that if they start, I will be saying goodbye, and, b) take the phone calls down to once a week or less? Having been raised in a small family with a borderline disorder personality parent, I tend to be a little fuzzy on when it is and is not okay to draw boundaries.

I know I do not want to talk to them. At all. But I want to know what the baseline for being a responsible child to aging parents is, by normal-person standards.

.

You for sure need to set boundaries and the amount of phone calls you have with your parents are based on what YOU can put up with. Some are ok talking daily and others can barely handle once a year. You ABSOLUTELY have the right to tell them you don't want to hear the negativity/criticism, but there is a good chance they won't get the hint, so be prepared to hang up. It sounds like they're upsetting you to the point that the relationship is unhealthy for you. You can take charge though...and use your power as an adult to choose what is a more comfortable amount of frequency to speak w/them.

And, FWIW, I had to set boundaries w/my mom and she didn't like that at all and any time we try and reconnect, I end up having to step back b/c the exact same patterns emerge.

MC, thanks for saying that. One of the things I wonder is ... how do people set those boundaries? My parents are apparently not so much with the hints. The next time my mom starts in on one of her passive-aggressive "Oh, you just don't want to talk to us ... after all we did for you, you don't even love us ..." rants, I'm tempted to say, no, given the content, I do NOT want to talk to you more than once a week, but it feels ... oddly abrupt, I guess? Though given the increasing reluctance over the past years, perhaps less so than I think.

P.S. - I told my dad that about the negativity/criticism years ago (he used to be worse than my mother). He replied, with great indignation, Don't you want me to be honest? For the love of Mike, dad, NO!

I used to call my dad about once a month until a couple of weeks ago when he had a heart attack. Now the poor bloke is sick of me calling him. No doubt he will start ignoring me soon bless him.

Maisie, I'm sorry to hear of your dad's heart attack. I hope he's back to tip-tip shape soon!

One thing that worked for me was to have a set day for a phone call (Monday at night). Sometimes, it was a quick check in, sometimes, a long conversation. But having the set day helped my mother not stress and cut down on the "just checking up on you" phone calls that would drive me crazy. If I had something to do on Monday, I would send a text message and we would talk on Tuesday, so it wasn't written in stone and we all had some flexibility.

LD, this sounds IDEAL. I'll post the same question I asked a couple of times above ... how did you get her to agree to it? Did it just coalesce naturally ("Oh, mom, my only night off now is X, let's talk then ..."), or was it a more deliberate thing? I suspect it's probably a combination of the two, as well as your mom not being a clingy co-dependent like my parents are, but ... still, I hold out hope for a magic formula/thing I just haven't thought of yet because it is so blindingly obvious.

I talk to my parents anywhere from once a week to every day to multiple times a day. Just kind of depends. Most people in my family seem to talk to their parents/siblings at least once a week. My husband talks to my parents at least once every other week. He talks to HIS parents only on major holidays. I talk to his parents about once a year.

I wouldn't talk to my parents so much if I didn't genuinely like them as people. I know there are a bunch of families - my husband's, for instance - that only speak to each other because they're related. I truly feel that if I wasn't related to my parents and met them, we would be friends anyway. Probably wouldn't talk quite so much, but if they were my age rather than 35 years older, we'd definitely still speak every week. We have a lot of aimless conversations where we're just reading news articles we thought the other person would find interesting or saying "oh, go look at this funny youtube video!" and laughing on the phone. A lot of phone calls are simply talking about whatever silly things our pets got up to (my parents don't actually have pets, but they feed this stray cat and he's kind of like their pet). Usually talking to them at least once a week isn't a problem, but if I get really busy and forget to call, once a week or so goes by I start getting emails and texts asking if everything is alright, so I then feel the need to check in.

My husband and my dad talk to each other about cooking. They like to trade tips.

As far as I am aware, my parents talked to their parents on a similar schedule.

My husband's parents are always guilt-tripping him and often spend the phone call being generally not pleasant, so he tries to minimize contact. Keeping it to major holidays gives a ready-made topic of conversation so that they can't pry into other parts of our lives, and if he calls right before we have to be somewhere, there's a ready-made conversation ender as well.

ABSOLUTELY draw boundaries if the conversations are doing nothing but causing pain and stress. I don't think anyone is under obligation to subject themselves to that. If the relationship is toxic, do not keep it. And don't feel bad about it. At the end of the day, you are not responsible for your parents' emotional state or mental health. Set boundaries, make rules, and when they violate them, end the conversation and go X amount of time without talking to them until you recover (X should be a pretty clearly set amount of time communicated to them in advance). This is less for them than it is for you. They know the rules and if they choose to break them, they experience the consequences. And YOU know the rules and if they break them, you get time to step back and evaluate and implement the consequences without feeling bad because, well, they knew them in advance.

Distracts, thank you. First, for providing another model of healthy intra-familial relations, and second, for the bolded bit. That's something I'm still trying to wrap my mind around. I DO feel guilty when my mother tells me she cries every morning because of how I act. I may rationally be aware that it's because she's, a) in a depression she refuses to treat, and, b) being hella manipulative, but it doesn't stop me from feeling like I should accommodate her anyway, because no matter how you cut it, I'm less fragile. Problem is, "less" doesn't mean "impervious." Also, dammit, I'm trying to get better, which is all I would ever ask of anyone. It's when they continue to blame everybody but themselves for their circumstances that I start to get twitchy.

I didn't appreciate what I had until I moved over 4,000 miles away in my early 20's. I love and miss my parents. I'm particularly close to my mother but as my younger sister grows up and we start to have more in common I find that we talk a lot more as well. My parents are in poor health and I find it maddening to visit them because that means living with them for at least 10 days. My parents are both very overweight, don't take care of themselves, and don't have a good relationship so living with them even for a few days is hard. But the phone, I call as often as I think about it. some times it's once a day for several days in a row and sometimes we miss a couple of week. It probably averages out to about once a week for 90 minutes. If we miss a couple weeks it ends up as a 3 hour phone marathon with several hand-offs as people go the toilet or start to cook breakfast and lunch. I visit them about once to twice a year.

I'm sorry to hear that your parents are rather difficult, Circe. I can't imagine having those expectations and being spoken to that way as an adult.

Rhea, it sounds like you've got a family like my husband's - he emigrated in his early 20s thinking it was no big to fly home regularly, and it's gotten tougher with age. As his family is awesome and he likes to see them, and they him ... it's hard.

"Difficult" is a very diplomatic way of putting things re: my parents. I certainly don't appreciate it. The interesting/odd thing is that in just about every situation except a family situation, I'm a hard-ass. I've just apparently been trained not to kick too hard when it's family, because it'll just mean more drama. It worked when I loved them. Now, given the lack of love, not so much ... which certainly provides motivation to never let it get to that degree with anybody else.

Thanks, guys - that got more personal than I was planning (I really DID just want a baseline, and it sounds like with a few exceptions from very loving, close-knit families, once a week is perfectly normal). But, wow, was it cathartic to vent a little. Methinks this might be a good time to get a therapist ....

No magic bullet, sadly, but I have a small range of tactics to mix and match depending on the occasion. Firstly, I almost always visit them. Unless it's absolutely unavoidable, I don't have them visit us. Because they have no boundaries about privacy and private space, and because while I'm happy and secure in our choices of house and lifestyle, it's just an irritation to have them examined and found wanting. Then, when I visit them, I almost always have my husband with me as a buffer. He's good at that - he gets it, and he's protective of me around them. Every put down, however slight, he will counter. If I did it, it would sound at best petty, but he's good at it. When it gets too much, he announces that we have to get going, and puts our daughter's coat on her. They won't argue with him. On the rare occasion when I have to visit them alone, I just keep it very light and breezy, and short. I don't engage, don't rise to it, don't do anything more than the most superficial chit chat. I also try to make it a drop-in on the way to some fixed thing, like a dentist appointment, so it's time limited.

Sometimes I have to give a bit and bend a little, and I think if I can vent my annoyance to DH in advance and afterwards, that helps. I keep them at arms length, because it's better for my own well being. I'd like it to be different, but we are who we are, both them and me. It isn't going to change unless I'm willing to re-set my boundaries. For the moment, I'm not. So there it is. In the meantime, if I give an inch, I find I'm looking back over the mile that's been taken and wondering how the heck it happened.

 

[zoebartlett]

I talk to my mom a few times each week, usually. It varies -- sometimes we talk once a day, others once every few days. Although she's retired now, we've been in the same profession for years so we talk about that often. I talk to my mom more often than my dad but they're together. He's just not a big phone talker.

I used to see them much more frequently. I used to work close to their house, so I could easily stop by and hang out after work before heading home. My husband and I moved a few months ago and now we're just over an hour away from my parents. We probably see them once a month, I'm guessing. It feels like more though because we talk so often.

 

[ruby59]

I see my mother and mother in law every other day. My mother lives in a nursing home, but I am her power of attorney. Because of her dementia, I have to see her very often or she gets agitated. I take her to all of her medical appointments. My husband and I share my mother in law with my brother in law and his wife. She lives with us part of the week. I also take her to all medical appointments, which is often. We are part of the sandwich generation with children still at home and responsibilites for our aging parents. I also work part time, but for my husband, so scheduling is easy, at least.

Just had to say kudos to you for doing that. I'm "child-free by choice" because I know myself well enough to know I'm too selfish to care for children. Because of that, I'm also very proactive with my mother to make sure she has all of her affairs in order for when she retires in a couple of years. I imagine you are very busy!

Thank you Sonnyjane. After reading some of the stories one here, I guess I got lucky. My parents were terrific. They were always there for my brother and I. The same for my husband and his parents. And when the mothers became in laws (fathers passed away), they treated each of us like their own. So even though it gets crazy sometimes, I am glad I can help them in their golden years. My husband feels the same way. But with him working long hours, it does fall more on me.

I just want to add that in my case, plans went awry. My mom was extremely self sufficient, and very organized. She had it all planned out. Then one day she took a nap. Woke up and she could not speak. She had suffered a stroke. Everything changed in a heartbeat.

 

[Tekate]

I'm an aging parent!!! 61 years old.. I have two sons 22 and 26.. had them late so some of you may have parents my age but are in your 30s... Let me start with my parents who are both dead now. I called my mother every Sunday in my 20s and in my later years 40s and 30s we talked 2X a week and saw them every 3 weeks as at the time we lived near them in 1990 they moved to FL and me t NC so we talked once or twice a week and I talked to my dad if he answered the phone and on holidays.. very 1920s parents.. mom in charge, Dad was beloved and loved but talked little. Now to my sons:

I see one of my sons every weekend.. he is still in college and comes here to study and have me walk his dog but we will be moving in 2014 and we shall see what happens with him. his G/F is born and raised in TEXAS baby and I don't see her leaving.. BUT my son says he wants to live in the NE but he's never seen snow! haha..I will call him once a week as long as I can after we move.

my other son is an introvert and I call him once a week... and always will as long as I can..

I expect speak to both of my kids ONCE a week.. I LOVE them.. they are my center and my UNIVERSE and they are my being.. my heart's love.. my EVERYTHING.. BUT they are adults.. I found (FIND??) it very hard to STOP MOTHERING and start treating them as adults.. but I have been trying very hard.. I don't WANT TO LOSE them.. although sons are different to their moms than daughters and nature/god sent me two perfect sons I think a once a week, hi this is mom!!! love you .. anything new.. can't wait to see you is what I need.. they seem okay with it.. we shall see though as times goes on..

To your situation.. to my mind your parents are probably my age(ish) and they haven't stopped parenting you as a kid instead of being parents of an adult child .. NOT YOUR FAULT.. your mantra should be: this life is about me NOT THEM.. you should invite them when you feel like it.. dang my parents used to just show up at my door having not called first when I was in my 20s.. I mean I had serious hangovers .. ETC if you get my drift... it was a bit bothersome so your parents should separate from you and view you and your family as YOURS.. it's very very very hard so VERY HARD.. we love our kids.. and remember that it's not you it's them who needs to change.. you should try hard not to do this kind of behavior to your own kids because in a flash your kids grow up...A normal relationship with parents in their 60s and 70s is for MOM AND DAD to have lives of their own and love their children with the deep, abiding love of always.. I don't do my kids any good if I keep annoying them.. I want my kids to remember me as special, loving and caring... not a nagging old bitch because believe me I could be like your parents... and remember we were the ME GENERATION.. and we have had a hard time giving it up... you need time and space and love and them in your life as adults not as you a kid.... it's not YOUR problem it's THEIRS.. (sorry I seem to be yelling.... my bad)

I get migraine's occasionally and they are a bitch.. so sorry.. you do yourself and your spouse and family more good by being healthy and happy.. Mom and Dad will get on board and as to the in-laws.. I think that is low self esteem on your parents part.. maybe they feel bad about some parenting issue and are afraid they will lose you to the in laws.. my mom felt that way.. I never stopped loving my mom but I truly loved my first mother in law with all my heart.. we all carry that damn baggage.. happy holiday(s). take care of you and yours, which is you, hubby, kids and mom and dad after.. !!!! hope I could give you some insight into the aging annoying boomer parents!

I'll go first. Generally, my parents expect me to speak to them at least once a day. They get very upset if I miss calls (keep in mind I work and have a toddler).

They're also deeply depressed, perpetually negative, and prone to interpreting every last damn thing as a personal and mortal insult: for example, last weekend we had a dinner scheduled with my inlaws, but I got a dreadful migraine and had to cancel it; this resulted in lots of yelling - which, let me tell you, is awesome when you have a migraine - and the use of phrases like, "fine, then, you have no mother!" and my dad deciding my inlaws are anti-semites. (I don't get it, either.) (Also, they're not: they're approximately the nicest people you can imagine.) Since then, oddly enough, I haven't felt like ringing them, and they're interpreting this as my being a "traitor," choosing other people over them, being unappreciative of all the sacrifices they've made for me over the years, etc., etc., etc.

I am at my wit's end. It would be one thing if the daily phone calls resulted in some kind of benefit to them: if they'd tell me problems and let me help them fix them, for example. Instead, it's a litany of criticism, and some complaining about other things - the neighbors, politics, whatever. It has been literally years since I've heard them say anything positive.

Am I being a bad daughter if I, a) politely refuse to listen to any more of the criticism and flatly tell them that if they start, I will be saying goodbye, and, b) take the phone calls down to once a week or less? Having been raised in a small family with a borderline disorder personality parent, I tend to be a little fuzzy on when it is and is not okay to draw boundaries.

I know I do not want to talk to them. At all. But I want to know what the baseline for being a responsible child to aging parents is, by normal-person standards.

ETA: Heh, looks like I was wordy enough to be far from first! Thank you for sharing that, guys - while I am sorry that some of you also have folks who are had to handle, I feel a little better hearing that the daily phone call is apparently not the norm.

 

[Amber St. Clare]

I'm answering this for Mr. St. Clare because mine are dead.

Twice a day. She lives alone and calls him @10am to let him know she woke up and @7pm to let him know she didn't have a stroke or anything. Seriously. Every.damn.day. Since it's the holiday season, I'm going to refrain from any editorial comment.......

 

[violet3]

I'll go first. Generally, my parents expect me to speak to them at least once a day. They get very upset if I miss calls (keep in mind I work and have a toddler).

They're also deeply depressed, perpetually negative, and prone to interpreting every last damn thing as a personal and mortal insult: for example, last weekend we had a dinner scheduled with my inlaws, but I got a dreadful migraine and had to cancel it; this resulted in lots of yelling - which, let me tell you, is awesome when you have a migraine - and the use of phrases like, "fine, then, you have no mother!" and my dad deciding my inlaws are anti-semites. (I don't get it, either.) (Also, they're not: they're approximately the nicest people you can imagine.) Since then, oddly enough, I haven't felt like ringing them, and they're interpreting this as my being a "traitor," choosing other people over them, being unappreciative of all the sacrifices they've made for me over the years, etc., etc., etc.

I am at my wit's end. It would be one thing if the daily phone calls resulted in some kind of benefit to them: if they'd tell me problems and let me help them fix them, for example. Instead, it's a litany of criticism, and some complaining about other things - the neighbors, politics, whatever. It has been literally years since I've heard them say anything positive.

Am I being a bad daughter if I, a) politely refuse to listen to any more of the criticism and flatly tell them that if they start, I will be saying goodbye, and, b) take the phone calls down to once a week or less? Having been raised in a small family with a borderline disorder personality parent, I tend to be a little fuzzy on when it is and is not okay to draw boundaries.

I know I do not want to talk to them. At all. But I want to know what the baseline for being a responsible child to aging parents is, by normal-person standards.

ETA: Heh, looks like I was wordy enough to be far from first! Thank you for sharing that, guys - while I am sorry that some of you also have folks who are had to handle, I feel a little better hearing that the daily phone call is apparently not the norm.

Oh I feel badly that you are dealing with this. Negativity can be so overwhelming, not to mention contagious. I think it's perfectly reasonable to draw your boundaries with your parents. You have to take care of yourself in order to take care of your family - period.

 

[violet3]

Just realized that I never answered the question. I talk to my dad every day - but we work together and he's awesome! He truly is one of the most positive people I've ever met and he keeps my spirits up even when I'm down. My mother has had some severe emotional problems in the last 5-10 years and I have often been stuck being the one who was called to deal with the situation. Just this year, I had a minor health issue, and I realized that for the first time, I needed to take care of myself and couldn't be the person who takes care of her all the time. We talk/text a few times a month now, depending on how she is feeling and if she is capable. I know I personally reached a point where I realized that I had to draw a boundary for my own personal health and well being.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I talk to my mom 2-3 times a week. She lives near me, perhaps a 2 hour trip, and she also comes to visit twice a month.

My husband talks to his parents almost every day! They live accross the country. He is a very devoted and loving son, but I am not sure they fully appreciate it!

Our parents are not what I would call "aging". They are all about 60-61. Still pretty active and young!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Am I being a bad daughter if I, a) politely refuse to listen to any more of the criticism and flatly tell them that if they start, I will be saying goodbye, and, b) take the phone calls down to once a week or less? Having been raised in a small family with a borderline disorder personality parent, I tend to be a little fuzzy on when it is and is not okay to draw boundaries.

I know I do not want to talk to them. At all. But I want to know what the baseline for being a responsible child to aging parents is, by normal-person standards.

You can't use the average to determine your own behavior. You have to know what the average behavior would be for people with toxic parents In your situation, I would not talk to my parents very often.

If it helps you to feel okay with your decision, I choose not to talk to my father at all ever. We had a brief period where we were in touch in my late teens and early 20s, and were in touch when I got married. But five years ago I decided I did not want him in my life and so I do not talk to him. Having my own kids has harshened my willingness to forgive the sins of my parent. He e-mailed me once, and I felt guilty, but decided not to respond. I also have a grandmother who sounds like your parents, and I also don't talk to her much. On the other hand, MY mom does talk to this same woman every day and suffers for it. I'm not sure what is "right", but I do know that you are welcome and validated to make any choice that benefits your own wellbeing. You are an adult now with a family to care for, and that, along with your own wellbeing, takes priority. Unfortunately, your parents and my father and grandmother made their own beds By accident or on purpose, if people are unkind or abusive or neglectful of their kids, they just don't get to have warm relationships with them as adults. They either guilt and manipulate their kids into looking after them, a form of abuse IMO, or they just don't see them much. But, THEY could repair the relationship if they truly wanted it. If they are unwilling or unable, why is it your job to keep suffering?

 

[Dreamer_D]

Circe, you did not ask these questions of me, but I want to share my thoughts anyways

I would LOVE to be able to get it down to that. Possibly on a schedule, so every conversation won't begin with "Why haven't you called?" I notice a number of people say there's a set time, like a phone date ... how do y'all get parents to agree to that?

You don't get them to agree. You don't need theor permission! You just say, "I'mm talk to you next Monday! Bye!"

... It is very frustrating, when I hear them talk blithely about things like my mother's blood pressure falling to levels where she should be in an ER, to be unable to do anything... But I would love to be able to do something aside from acting as an emotional dumping ground.

The hardest thing about being in a relationship with an addict (using the term loosly as I like to think about these things) -- be it an addict to substance abuse or to drama! -- is setting boundaries. You are not responsible for their actions or health. It seems that a lot of kids with narcissistic self-absorbed or addicted parents want to "help" everyone else, which I think stems from the urge to try and control your surroundings and feel less anxious about the unpredictability that may have characterized your childhood. My mom struggles with this after being raised by an alcoholic father and mother with BPD or a similarly narcissistic disorder. But its not healthy to try to control others, even in the guise of help. That is a lesson I try to learn every day.

MC, thanks for saying that. One of the things I wonder is ... how do people set those boundaries? My parents are apparently not so much with the hints. The next time my mom starts in on one of her passive-aggressive "Oh, you just don't want to talk to us ... after all we did for you, you don't even love us ..." rants, I'm tempted to say, no, given the content, I do NOT want to talk to you more than once a week, but it feels ... oddly abrupt, I guess? Though given the increasing reluctance over the past years, perhaps less so than I think.

When they get abusive and behave badly, you say: "This conversations is not very productive. I'll call you next Monday mom!" And you hang up. And next Monday you call back and say "Hi" like nothing happened! And if they insist on being bad, you say, "well, I was just checking in again, but this isn't productive anymore. I'll call Next Monday!" Eventually they will get the hint. It's hard when you have people like that in your life. The hardest thing to accept is they won't ever change They won't ever become the parents you want so badly. They won't be able to give you the love you want, no matter how you behave

... how did you get her to agree to it? Did it just coalesce naturally ("Oh, mom, my only night off now is X, let's talk then ..."), or was it a more deliberate thing? I suspect it's probably a combination of the two, as well as your mom not being a clingy co-dependent like my parents are, but ... still, I hold out hope for a magic formula/thing I just haven't thought of yet because it is so blindingly obvious.

Again, you don't get them to agree. You just DO your thing. And be prepared for the high probability that if you start trying to behave normally with them, theur behavior will get worse before it gets better. Not to put to fine a point on it, but they will have a health crisis or they will have some other "crisis" to pull you back in!

And not to be nosey... but have you talked about this exact scenerio with your therapist and whay hasn't he/she suggested tools to achieve these goals? Learning new behavioral stategies is an important part of therapy, no?

 

[Skippy123]

Circe, you have a kind heart; I had the same struggle years back ago. I do talk to them daily for the most pat but they use to make me feel guilty and I told them, don't do that to me (I love you) but I can't talk all the time. Now if I don't call every single day it isn't a big deal. I think it is hard explaining this to parents. Also, I think parents can be lonely, or think they are the boss since we are the kids. I like what Monarch posted, just let them know and don't feel bad, you have a kiddo and work, etc!

 

[yennyfire]

To be honest Circe, I saw this question almost immediately after you posted it and I had such a strong reaction, I couldn't even reply at the time. My answer is multiple times a day and it drives me INSANE! If my sister and I don't call my Mom by 8:05 a.m., she calls us. Her first question is "so, what's new"...umm, not much since I spoke to you yesterday afternoon at 4:00. I have to listen to a litany of how my Dad is feeling (he has had serious health issues in the past, but has been doing really well for a # of years), what they ate for dinner, what they WILL be eating for breakfast and a blow-by-blow of what my Mom will be doing that day. Mind you, it consists of which grocery stores she is going to and maybe a really exciting trip to TJ Maxx. My Mom is in her mid-60s and in generally good health. She's just a recluse who has no friends and makes no effort to remedy the situation (she doesn't really seem to care). The result is that she has nothing to do but call me from the grocery store to tell me that lemons are on sale or that she was at Marshall's and saw a cute shirt for me....I can totally understand checking in a couple of times a day if someone is in poor health, but that isn't the case.

My Mom does a lot of the things you described too (probably why I had such a strong reaction)....my parents also live within 3 miles of both me and my sister, yet they are "too busy" to bother to see the grandkids unless we invite them to dinner at our house (we can't go out because my Mom won't allow my Dad to eat in restaurants because of his "dietary issues") or if we bring them to their house after school (but it has to be before my Dad goes to the gym and he can't leave even 5 minutes late because the gym might get crowded).... I just don't understand what makes my parents tick. They have no friends, they are retired (my Mom hasn't worked outside of the home since I was born), they don't travel, yet they have never come to watch my son play baseball or my daughter's ballet recital. When I ask them, the response is "it's too hot/too cold for Daddy to sit outside....the bleachers aren't comfortable....it's flu season, he can't be around too many people"....it's ridiculous. Anyway.....

You've received some great advice and I should probably take it myself, but I do know how hard it is with parents like we have to set boundaries and stick to them. My Mom would give me the cold shoulder if I tried to tell her that I didn't want to talk 2x a day or if I told her how her lack of involvement/interest in my children hurts my feelings.

I really have nothing helpful to add, I just wanted to send you hugs....families are so hard sometimes!

 

[Tekate]

I always wish I had a daughter - a third child as I love my sons with infinite love.. forever.. your parents sound much like my parents except they both found sobriety when I was 23.. I am now 61 and they are both dead the parent manual?? wish my generation did a better job.. I am sorry your parents are such effups.. sounds like you are doing all the right things to keep yourself healthy and emotionally on the ground.. it hurts though.. it hurts when kids have to be parents.. I mean little kids.. my mother used to tell us that our dad would bring a gun home and kill us kids (he was a bank guard).. I had a whole escape route planned at 7.. as soon as he started shooting... it's very hard to bring yourself out of that abyss.. Al Anon worked for me.. and counseling and just having my own kids.. although my boys say I am helicopter I try to not be that way... I call people like you and me the walking wounded.. you can't see the wounds but they are there.. I am old now and a lot wiser.. but there are some things that just shape who you are.. many happy and wonderful thoughts coming your way.. be a better parent if you are one or become one than your parents are and were... stop the cycle as best you can.. Happy holidays and much peace to you.

I voted for "some other variable"!

My father is an abusive alcoholic. I put up with watching him hurt my mother and having him hurt me (physically and emotionally). My earliest memories are of hiding with my stuffed animals hoping that he wouldn't hurt anyone tonight and hoping that the police wouldn't come again. Maybe if I was good enough it would be okay.
Needless to say, I got sick of this. He got in trouble for a serious crime. I tried to move on with our relationship when he got out of prison. It went okay for a bit -- and then he started drinking again.
I tried to call once a month or so but every call was miserable. He sat there doing nothing but criticizing my choices in life and accusing me of being a bad daughter for not calling more often.

I don't talk to him any more. Haven't since 2004.


My mother is tricky. We've had ups and downs through my whole life. She is an alcoholic also. That caused lots of bad things in life (who chooses to buy more beer when there isn't food for your kids?!?!). She did quit drinking for about 10 years. It took a lot of work, but we'd built a better relationship and spoke once a week or more often. She also finally decided to divorce her husband (not my father, the man she married after him) and started having some respect for herself.
And then she started drinking again.
She's now living with her ex-husband in his parents' house (with his parents) and letting herself be walked all over again.

We saw each other at Thanksgiving (hardly spoke at all) because my grandparents hosted. She did NOT come to my wedding in October. The last time we spoke was probably 2-3 months ago. Not looking promising for a call any time soon.


Life is too short to put up with manipulation and abuse. My father (and now quite possibly my mother) did and said things that were WAY over any reasonable line. I don't need that kind of crud in my life.

 

[Autumnovember]

I speak with my mom on the phone twice a day but I'm also a complete mama's girl and have a very close relationship with her. With dad, maybe once every two weeks but thats because we rather just talk in person when I'm visiting every other weekend. I have no children yet so I have a lot more time for that kind of thing. My sister has two kids and talks to mom once a day on the phone but they also have a similar relationship as me.

IF I had parents that were negative, I doubt I would communicate with either one of them that often. I don't deal with negativity from family members well at all.

Now, DH has a mother that is similar to a monster. Even when she is on a nice streak, DH doesn't talk to her on the phone much at all. Maybe once a month if that. Same with his dad. We go over for major holidays and his brothers birthdays when she's....."behaving." Right now, she's not doing that, so she has been cut off pretty much. He went over for thanksgiving for 10 minutes. Christmas, he will go over for an hour. She knows the deal.

I'll see her at a baptism tomorrow and I will likely stay on the other side of the church. Sad but I distance myself from people who give off bad energy or are nasty.

My dad can sometimes really piss me off and even with him, I distance myself when he does and he knows it.

There was a point where my mom was just a negative nancy constantly and my sister and I confronted her about it and flat out old her we don't enjoy being in her presence when she's like that. In my family, we can talk about these things openly, and feelings do get hurt but we appreciate honesty above all.

Honestly, you gotta do what is best for you and your family. I know its easier said than done but don't let it bother you too much. I get that they're your parents but that doesn't mean their behavior is ok and you need to deal with it on a daily basis.

 

[packrat]

I've not talked to JD's mom in..two years maybe? A year? JD hasn't talked to her in several months. He finally saw that the relationship was toxic and well on its way to ruining our marriage and possibly costing him his dream job.

 

[TooPatient]

I always wish I had a daughter - a third child as I love my sons with infinite love.. forever.. your parents sound much like my parents except they both found sobriety when I was 23.. I am now 61 and they are both dead the parent manual?? wish my generation did a better job.. I am sorry your parents are such effups.. sounds like you are doing all the right things to keep yourself healthy and emotionally on the ground.. it hurts though.. it hurts when kids have to be parents.. I mean little kids.. my mother used to tell us that our dad would bring a gun home and kill us kids (he was a bank guard).. I had a whole escape route planned at 7.. as soon as he started shooting... it's very hard to bring yourself out of that abyss.. Al Anon worked for me.. and counseling and just having my own kids.. although my boys say I am helicopter I try to not be that way... I call people like you and me the walking wounded.. you can't see the wounds but they are there.. I am old now and a lot wiser.. but there are some things that just shape who you are.. many happy and wonderful thoughts coming your way.. be a better parent if you are one or become one than your parents are and were... stop the cycle as best you can.. Happy holidays and much peace to you.

I voted for "some other variable"!

My father is an abusive alcoholic. I put up with watching him hurt my mother and having him hurt me (physically and emotionally). My earliest memories are of hiding with my stuffed animals hoping that he wouldn't hurt anyone tonight and hoping that the police wouldn't come again. Maybe if I was good enough it would be okay.
Needless to say, I got sick of this. He got in trouble for a serious crime. I tried to move on with our relationship when he got out of prison. It went okay for a bit -- and then he started drinking again.
I tried to call once a month or so but every call was miserable. He sat there doing nothing but criticizing my choices in life and accusing me of being a bad daughter for not calling more often.

I don't talk to him any more. Haven't since 2004.


My mother is tricky. We've had ups and downs through my whole life. She is an alcoholic also. That caused lots of bad things in life (who chooses to buy more beer when there isn't food for your kids?!?!). She did quit drinking for about 10 years. It took a lot of work, but we'd built a better relationship and spoke once a week or more often. She also finally decided to divorce her husband (not my father, the man she married after him) and started having some respect for herself.
And then she started drinking again.
She's now living with her ex-husband in his parents' house (with his parents) and letting herself be walked all over again.

We saw each other at Thanksgiving (hardly spoke at all) because my grandparents hosted. She did NOT come to my wedding in October. The last time we spoke was probably 2-3 months ago. Not looking promising for a call any time soon.


Life is too short to put up with manipulation and abuse. My father (and now quite possibly my mother) did and said things that were WAY over any reasonable line. I don't need that kind of crud in my life.

Tekate -- I'm sorry you had to think of such horrible things as a child too! There are lots of us out there but it isn't something that comes up much in conversations. I feel like it is much the same as was talked about regarding addicts in the family -- a thing to be ashamed of and avoided. It shouldn't be this way!

I do have a 14 year old step-daughter. Her dad (my DH) had similar challenges with his parents. We both learned a lot about what we do NOT want to pass on! Much of what we do for "A" is influenced by the things we went through and the things we don't want her to go through. We work hard to make sure she has everything she could need to succeed to the best of her abilities at the same time as teaching her the skills she needs in life as she grows to be an independent adult person.


Life is too short for it all! I am ME! It is up to ME to make my life how I want it to be. My mom made her choices and continues to make her own choices. She has the life she chose. Same with my father. If they don't want to be a part of MY life, then that is their choice.

 

[VRBeauty]

... Al Anon worked for me.. and counseling and just having my own kids...

I should add that Al-Anon helped me deal with the controlling and judgmental aspects of my mother's behavior too. I "qualified" for Al-Anon not because of my parents but because of the men I chose - but I guess it's all related, isn't it. Anyhow, Al-anon helped me recognize the controlling etc. behavior and start to set boundaries. As MC mentioned, it's easy to start seeing the controlling behavior everywhere and to sort of overdo it - . But I did eventually get it all put into perspective and learn to pick my battles.

Yenny - being on the receiving end of a cold shoulder won't kill you.

I can only speak from my experience. Establishing boundaries wasn't an easy process. I'm sure I went overboard at times. I've heard my mother wail "why do you hate me so much" several times, and it was hard not to try to say something that would just make it all better. And I didn't do it alone. One of my SIL's was very forthright in speaking up when my mother was out of line, and her husband (my brother) was very good about backing her up - even if it meant cutting a visit to the folks short by a day or two. I know my mother went through her own soul-searching too. But now I'm very glad that we all went through our various processes and we've all reached our new albeit imperfect equilibriums. I'd hate to be estranged from my parents or to be working through all that stuff now when they really do need us kids.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Circe, you did not ask these questions of me, but I want to share my thoughts anyways

I would LOVE to be able to get it down to that. Possibly on a schedule, so every conversation won't begin with "Why haven't you called?" I notice a number of people say there's a set time, like a phone date ... how do y'all get parents to agree to that?

You don't get them to agree. You don't need theor permission! You just say, "I'mm talk to you next Monday! Bye!"

... It is very frustrating, when I hear them talk blithely about things like my mother's blood pressure falling to levels where she should be in an ER, to be unable to do anything... But I would love to be able to do something aside from acting as an emotional dumping ground.

The hardest thing about being in a relationship with an addict (using the term loosly as I like to think about these things) -- be it an addict to substance abuse or to drama! -- is setting boundaries. You are not responsible for their actions or health. It seems that a lot of kids with narcissistic self-absorbed or addicted parents want to "help" everyone else, which I think stems from the urge to try and control your surroundings and feel less anxious about the unpredictability that may have characterized your childhood. My mom struggles with this after being raised by an alcoholic father and mother with BPD or a similarly narcissistic disorder. But its not healthy to try to control others, even in the guise of help. That is a lesson I try to o?

Just had to comment about the drama addict - so spot-on. Some people need to have or create drama and will resort to whatever means to feed that habit. For months, two relatives were texting me super upset over a person another relative was with, because the situation was extremely bizarre. My dh and I decided to distance ourselves and then found out that after doing so, the family members suddenly became best friends with the drama person bc they love the craziness. We no longer have to deal with it, but the wake-up call has been that they love drama so much more than healthy relationships that they quit asking about their grandkids. We found out they're secretly hanging out w/drama person and haven't even once expressed interest in going to their grand kid's sports events.

My point is, all this behavior might be extremely self-serving so it is best to break the cycle to see if they're honest or looking for drama.

 

[Kelinas]

I call once a week, at least, and talk for about 2 hr. My father is 79, mother is 58 & both have had cancer issues this year. If I could, id go back to live in Korea again, alas there are circumstances that prohibit that currently. (I'm also the baby of family)

If my parents were tech savvy at all, we'd Skype or Kakao but they aren't so phone call it is!

my husband talks to both parents (divorced so x2) every.single.day. for an hour each. No clue what they talk about.

 

[missy]

Sorry you are dealing with such negativity Circe and you have gotten excellent advice from PSers so I don't have much to add but to agree.

I usually speak to my mom every day except for when she and my dad are traveling (as they are now) and then maybe once a week. If I don't call her every day she gets pissy so to keep the peace I usually do. Our conversations are short-usually 5 minutes or less but sometimes we speak multiple times a day depending. However we have a contentious relationship and it's the rare day we do not argue at least a bit. Frustrating to say the least but our personalities just clash.

However both my parents are pretty upbeat otherwise (when my mom is not criticizing me that is lol) and despite our differences I love them and they are up there in age. Dad's around 80 and mom 71. My dad's not a phone person so I only speak to him on the phone when he is not well or I am arguing a lot with my mom. Ofc he always takes my mom's side but that's what he's supposed to do so I don't fault him for that. But when we get into bad arguments she has him contact me lol to try to get me to make up with her. Sigh. My dh loves my parents very much and vice versa and they have a terrific relationship. My dh never gets involved in our arguments and that is probably wise.


My parents are celebrating their 50th wedding anniversary this month and we are taking them out as soon as they get back from their cruise. The whole family is going to the anniversary celebration we are having for them so I hope I can just bite my tongue if my mom pushes my buttons because I want the occasion to be peaceful and happy.

My dh speaks to his mom about once/month I think and I call her about once/month as well. My dh and his mom never argue but they don't have the type of relationship I have with my parents. We were raised very differently. Their relationship feels more superficial to me. I get along well with his mom now but it took a long time.

Families are funny that way. It seems most are somewhat dysfunctional but as long as the love is there what can you do. You take it for what it is worth and love them anyway. It's the hateful families I would stay away from because no one should have to put up with all that negative energy. It destroys your health and respect is a vital part of any relationship. If someone doesn't respect you move on. Arguing/disagreeing is one thing. Emotionally abusive relationships quite another and only the person in the relationship can really know what/which they are dealing with.

 

[Circe]

Well, half the problem is solved, as my father called last night to disown me (again). I am too damned old for this.

Thank you all for your sterling advice - I am looking forward to sitting down to reply properly, once my toddler stops howling with outrage over my paying attention to anything but him. This is a drive-by, but I *did* want y'all to know I was reading and appreciating your taking the time to give me the benefit of your wisdom and experience!

 

[missy]

Well, half the problem is solved, as my father called last night to disown me (again). I am too damned old for this.

Thank you all for your sterling advice - I am looking forward to sitting down to reply properly, once my toddler stops howling with outrage over my paying attention to anything but him. This is a drive-by, but I *did* want y'all to know I was reading and appreciating your taking the time to give me the benefit of your wisdom and experience!

Aww Circe, wanted to send you (((hugs))) and love and support. I understand what you are going through and it sucks. It will probably sort itself out but the merry go round is exhausting. Sorry you are dealing with this dysfunctional mess.

 

[yennyfire]

... Al Anon worked for me.. and counseling and just having my own kids...

I should add that Al-Anon helped me deal with the controlling and judgmental aspects of my mother's behavior too. I "qualified" for Al-Anon not because of my parents but because of the men I chose - but I guess it's all related, isn't it. Anyhow, Al-anon helped me recognize the controlling etc. behavior and start to set boundaries. As MC mentioned, it's easy to start seeing the controlling behavior everywhere and to sort of overdo it - . But I did eventually get it all put into perspective and learn to pick my battles.

Yenny - being on the receiving end of a cold shoulder won't kill you.

I can only speak from my experience. Establishing boundaries wasn't an easy process. I'm sure I went overboard at times. I've heard my mother wail "why do you hate me so much" several times, and it was hard not to try to say something that would just make it all better. And I didn't do it alone. One of my SIL's was very forthright in speaking up when my mother was out of line, and her husband (my brother) was very good about backing her up - even if it meant cutting a visit to the folks short by a day or two. I know my mother went through her own soul-searching too. But now I'm very glad that we all went through our various processes and we've all reached our new albeit imperfect equilibriums. I'd hate to be estranged from my parents or to be working through all that stuff now when they really do need us kids.

VR, I don't recall saying that it would kill me? Your comment was really uncalled for. I think all any of us are trying to do is show Circe support and understanding.

 

[Tekate]

Definitely HIS problem.. love your toddler and remember YOU are better than that.. you stop the abuse chain.. you are good !

PEACE.. and love.

Well, half the problem is solved, as my father called last night to disown me (again). I am too damned old for this.

Thank you all for your sterling advice - I am looking forward to sitting down to reply properly, once my toddler stops howling with outrage over my paying attention to anything but him. This is a drive-by, but I *did* want y'all to know I was reading and appreciating your taking the time to give me the benefit of your wisdom and experience!