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How to buy a vintage OEC?

Mreader said:
Yes bc if one was iffy with CVB like @TruLuv858 there were plenty that had issues w Sako as well esp regarding costs for additional cads and not knowing what the final price will be etc.

OP I love your stone!
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No need to be sad TL! I should clarify that Sako does beautiful work. But it seems you have to be the type of client to let him do his thing and also be less concerned over budgetary constraints and if that isn't your style, then it might not be a good match.
 
Mreader said:
No need to be sad TL! I should clarify that Sako does beautiful work. But it seems you have to be the type of client to let him do his thing and also be less concerned over budgetary constraints and if that isn't your style, then it might not be a good match.
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I had a bit of the same problem with Caysie as well. The communication was spotty and the design talk a bit frustrating. In addition, she quoted me on the budget timeline and when payments were due but then asked for money outside of the timeline we agreed to. At the time, there were no measurements on her CADs so my rings very low profile which is not what I wanted. Many lessons learned, for sure! My rings were beautiful, don’t get me wrong, but they weren’t exactly what I wanted and the process wasn’t a joy.
 
Dreamer_D said:
If you want one of Caysie’s designs, then yes, you really need to be working with her! I love the ring she made for me.
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Exactly.

I would accept long timeline and even (rumored) customer service glitches to get exactly what I want. Caysie has always been a great designer of antique referenced settings, with a great bench. Caysie “gets” and executes a certain style. I would not expect anyone to be able to replicate her work so it feels and looks the same. Also, with Caysie my understanding is that there is minimal hand holding or stressing to get exactly what you want, correct me if I’m wrong here, and she is the designer and craftsperson, and she gives -you- the design advice.

I think the CAD issue mentioned above might be a big deal, since there were no measurements? I’m wondering how CADS were approved if CADS didn’t have measurements and setting appeared too low. I’m wondering if there was a wax sample sent to customer prior to casting. Both can prevent mis-steps. DKJ does put measurements on CADS and does provide wax casts. But you have to be a visionary designer to get a visionary piece.
 
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I’ve worked with Caysie from CVB, Yvonne for Cecile Raley, and now David Klass. Each had their own pluses and minuses that will definitely fit some projects and clients better than others. Mostly I think there is a bit of a learning curve to being a client, too. Learning how to communicate what you want, yes, but also learning to accept variations from what you imagined.
 
LightBright said:
I think the CAD issue mentioned above might be a big deal, since there were no measurements? I’m wondering how CADS were approved if CADS didn’t have measurements and setting appeared too low. I’m wondering if there was a wax sample sent to customer prior to casting. Both can prevent mis-steps.
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The CAD is more an artist rendition and you don’t get a plastic model. It isn’t a design-your-own situation at all.
 
Dreamer_D said:
The CAD is more an artist rendition and you don’t get a plastic model. It isn’t a design-your-own situation at all.
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That’s very interesting.

So DKJ is probably better for people who want more artistic control. DKJ provides measurements on CADS, multiple good natured iterations, plastic model, etc.

DKJ process puts more pressure on customer to fine tune their own design preferences. A great fit for some. But for those who don’t know how to put together design elements, it might be scary or frustrating. I’m speaking for myself here.
 
LightBright said:
Exactly.

I would accept long timeline and even (rumored) customer service glitches to get exactly what I want. Caysie has always been a great designer of antique referenced settings, with a great bench. Caysie “gets” and executes a certain style. I would not expect anyone to be able to replicate her work so it feels and looks the same. Also, with Caysie my understanding is that there is minimal hand holding or stressing to get exactly what you want, correct me if I’m wrong here, and she is the designer and craftsperson, and she gives -you- the design advice.

I think the CAD issue mentioned above might be a big deal, since there were no measurements? I’m wondering how CADS were approved if CADS didn’t have measurements and setting appeared too low. I’m wondering if there was a wax sample sent to customer prior to casting. Both can prevent mis-steps. DKJ does put measurements on CADS and does provide wax casts. But you have to be a visionary designer to get a visionary piece.
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My apologies, yes, I received a rendering not a CAD like DK provides. The renderings don’t have measurements on them and I was too new to having custom work done to ask for them. Upon reviewing the rendered images I didn’t know they would be so low profile. Additionally, I didn’t know I could request a wax mold at that time. Very much a learning experience for me.
 
This is one of the renderings Caysie sent to me - on a positive note, you do get a much more refined image of what you are designing.IMG_5343.jpeg
 
jaqjaqjaq said:
This is one of the renderings Caysie sent to me - on a positive note, you do get a much more refined image of what you are designing.IMG_5343.jpeg
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Wow that’s a CAD? It looks like a real photo!
 
Mreader said:
Wow that’s a CAD? It looks like a real photo!
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Yes! This part of the process was fun and exciting - I think this with measurements would be the best of both worlds.
 
LightBright said:
That’s very interesting.

So DKJ is probably better for people who want more artistic control. DKJ provides measurements on CADS, multiple good natured iterations, plastic model, etc.

DKJ process puts more pressure on customer to fine tune their own design preferences. A great fit for some. But for those who don’t know how to put together design elements, it might be scary or frustrating. I’m speaking for myself here.
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Exactly. I had ideas but didn’t want full creative control so I went with Cvb caysie and I’ve been very pleased so far. I’m thru cads. It took 2 sets. No measurements listed but she happily gave them to me when I asked. I knew going in it wouldn’t be a David Klass type, multiple employees, lots of communication experience. She’s actually exceeded my communication expectation, answers with in minutes every time, even on weekends. It might be slower than someone else but I wanted her eye and I was willing to wait a couple extra weeks for it. I should also add I have a semi bespoke piece, I bet it’s even easier with a pre designed piece. If you want caysie, I’d go with caysie. I scoured PS for days and hours before deciding. Everyone has quirks.
 
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vitona526 said:
Exactly. I had ideas but didn’t want full creative control so I went with Cvb caysie and I’ve been very pleased so far. I’m thru cads. It took 2 sets. No measurements listed but she happily gave them to me when I asked. I knew going in it wouldn’t be a David Klass type, multiple employees, lots of communication experience. She’s actually exceeded my communication expectation, answers with in minutes every time, even on weekends. It might be slower than someone else but I wanted her eye and I was willing to wait a couple extra weeks for it. I should also add I have a semi bespoke piece, I bet it’s even easier with a pre designed piece. If you want caysie, I’d go with caysie. I scoured PS for days and hours before deciding. Everyone has quirks.
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Is the setting for Willy?
 
Ok so I did do a crazy thing... remember I was considering buying more than one so I can compare them at my leisure at home? Well, I did just that. I'm keeping the Sako stone for sure (name to be revealed in due time), but now trying to decide about this newcomer. I have a full return policy. It hasn't been posted in this thread yet, it's from the SGBTP thread over in Vintage & Antique. https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/somebodys-gotta-buy-this-piece.245723/post-5387582

#22: Maxine (vs Sako stone #21)
https://imgur.com/a/EfwSDI7

Comparison to my Sako stone... Slightly larger face up, maybe by 2-3 mm, and a few color grades lower. Maybe a 1.7 M-N-OP? I can't see any inclusions with my eagle eye, but there is a chip that was pointed out by the previous purchaser in the SGBTP thread, and I can see it with my naked eyes since I'm looking for it.

The cut is very nice! It's very bright and crisp. It's definitely more of a checkerboard pattern, which is not my favorite. I wouldn't choose it in place of my Sako stone, but maybe it will do as a second flavor of OEC?

I'm considering removing it and sending it to GIA out of curiosity. Total including tax was $4040 - what do we think of the value? Is it likely to be a good deal, once graded? I'm a bit worried about the chip - would this cause it to be graded much lower on clarity, thus impacting value? You can see the chip in the other thread linked above.
 
EllieTO said:
Ok so I did do a crazy thing... remember I was considering buying more than one so I can compare them at my leisure at home? Well, I did just that. I'm keeping the Sako stone for sure (name to be revealed in due time), but now trying to decide about this newcomer. I have a full return policy. It hasn't been posted in this thread yet, it's from the SGBTP thread over in Vintage & Antique. https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/somebodys-gotta-buy-this-piece.245723/post-5387582

#22: Maxine (vs Sako stone #21)
https://imgur.com/a/EfwSDI7

Comparison to my Sako stone... Slightly larger face up, maybe by 2-3 mm, and a few color grades lower. Maybe a 1.7 M-N-OP? I can't see any inclusions with my eagle eye, but there is a chip that was pointed out by the previous purchaser in the SGBTP thread, and I can see it with my naked eyes since I'm looking for it.

The cut is very nice! It's very bright and crisp. It's definitely more of a checkerboard pattern, which is not my favorite. I wouldn't choose it in place of my Sako stone, but maybe it will do as a second flavor of OEC?

I'm considering removing it and sending it to GIA out of curiosity. Total including tax was $4040 - what do we think of the value? Is it likely to be a good deal, once graded? I'm a bit worried about the chip - would this cause it to be graded much lower on clarity, thus impacting value? You can see the chip in the other thread linked above.
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I love the cut on the new bigger one. I don't think its a tinted as OP. In that video anyway I'd guess M. J is really quite white! Chips affect clarity but not as much as I thought. Two of my diamonds in my five stone have large chips and they got SI2 grades. It's really hard to speak to value without knowing the color grade. But I'm getting like 10-12k for comps at 47 Jewelers if its M SI2, so seems pretty safe that you paid a good price unless its like an OP I1 or something.

It would make a great pendant! The cut is so sparkly.
 
Two beautiful stones! I love Maxine and the Sako stone. I have an M and at least in the video it does not seem any warmer to me. How fun to have two projects to brainstorm!
 
Dreamer_D said:
I love the cut on the new bigger one. I don't think its a tinted as OP. In that video anyway I'd guess M. J is really quite white! Chips affect clarity but not as much as I thought. Two of my diamonds in my five stone have large chips and they got SI2 grades. It's really hard to speak to value without knowing the color grade. But I'm getting like 10-12k for comps at 47 Jewelers if its M SI2, so seems pretty safe that you paid a good price unless its like an OP I1 or something.

It would make a great pendant! The cut is so sparkly.
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I agree O-P is probably worst case scenario, but I'd rather be conservative. It looks creamy even face up, but not exactly yellow.

How are you getting $10-12K comps? What size are you looking at? I'm getting around $5-7K on several sites, for ~1.6-1.7 L-N SI1/2. I think that's about worst case scenario for specs. It's cutting it kinda close to what I paid.

I'm a bit undecided on what to do with it. I think it's a very very nice stone, although not my favorite facet pattern. I'll admit part of what's making me want to keep it is that it was a good deal, and just the fun of having a different stone to play with. But I'm worried about the chip - both for durability and grading/value. I may just need to sleep on it.

20250120_151509.jpg

(picture courtesy of lala646)
 
Super Pretty stone, OP! Sounds like you are on a roll! It definitely appears warmer... I would guess in the N-O-P camp myself. My last OEC was an OP, and faced up super white, a little ivory in some lighting, but very bright in all conditions. You could see a bit of warmth through the sides, like the picture above. I, personally, couldn't get past the warmth, but I didn't know that until I wore it for a couple of weeks, because OEC's are so unique, they pick up all of their surroundings, if cut well, and it's quite remarkable! The color may not bother you given the size too... sounds like a great value! I would be curious to see what GIA comes up with!

Regarding settings, I have zero experience with Sako, so obviously can't comment on any kind of personal experience, which is why these boards are so valuable. Secondly, my experience with Caysie is not what I would consider "rumor," It's a fact for me... multiple projects and terrible follow through. She was lovely at first, until she wasn't. I would never work with her again. Some people have had remarkable experiences, and others haven't. Regarding DK, you have a TON of creative control, some people like that, and some don't. I love it. He has always been a delight, flexible and and an excellent communicator often exceeding timelines. It's just a matter of what your tolerance is as a consumer... I am certain you will find the perfect match for your needs, regardless of who you choose :kiss2: !
 
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EllieTO said:
I agree O-P is probably worst case scenario, but I'd rather be conservative. It looks creamy even face up, but not exactly yellow.

How are you getting $10-12K comps? What size are you looking at? I'm getting around $5-7K on several sites, for ~1.6-1.7 L-N SI1/2. I think that's about worst case scenario for specs. It's cutting it kinda close to what I paid.

I'm a bit undecided on what to do with it. I think it's a very very nice stone, although not my favorite facet pattern. I'll admit part of what's making me want to keep it is that it was a good deal, and just the fun of having a different stone to play with. But I'm worried about the chip - both for durability and grading/value. I may just need to sleep on it.

20250120_151509.jpg

(picture courtesy of lala646)
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I am assuming it weighs more than 1.6 but go with your comps.
 
Hahaha well if you've named it then you're keeping it! It would really make for a good pendant. It's pretty in its own way and different to the Sako stone. Most old cuts have an extremely thin or thin girdle and is prone to chipping at some point (these girls are more than 100 years old). There's no way to know if it was a deal or not unless you get Maxine graded by GIA. I don't think the price is unreasonable and it's worthwhile doing if you plan to free her from the setting.
 
I am a firm believer in … if you don’t LOVE something, send it back. That being said, while I’m very color sensitive (with the exception of pears) I’m 100% pendant in this case. Very pretty stone!
 
Could someone please post websites for Sako and MaxPan? I am not familiar with them.
 
I'm still toying with what to do with Maxine. At first I was in awe with how nice she's cut, then disappointed that I wasn't seeing the OEC facet pattern I like. She's pretty but not my type, if that makes sense. I put her away for a few days to think about it. I was playing with a loupe today and I can't get over how perfect she is! I can't see any inclusions or blemishes other than the chip. The cut is so precise. The facets dance all around and there's no obstruction under any conditions (I'm using the big words now!) I realized there is no culet, and I think it's actually more of a transitional than OEC?

As I was examining her today, I was thinking that if I return her, I might look back and kick myself for letting such a pretty stone go just because.... no flower. :confused:

New video here. I also ordered a camera microscope lens, so I'll post more when I get those pictures and videos.
https://imgur.com/a/nLjcRfr

I'm not talking about my Sako stone because that's decided. :mrgreen2: I just need to start the thread on her setting. She seems to be shrinking by the day though. :lol-2:
 
Maxine is a picture perfect American Cut, which is the precursor to the modern round brilliant. She is exceedingly rare! I own one of these amazing early ideal cuts too and they are treasures. They existed for only about 10 years and are among the most rare old cuts because so many were cut into modern rounds. They look spectacular bezelled or in enclosed settings that amp up the contrast and emphasize the fat arrows.
 
I vote you keep her! Rare, great price, and I think she is beautiful! So long as that chip isn't a concern, I would keep her! I think good for you that you got her!!!

I forgot to look at the video! She is spectacular!!!! Keep Her!!!!!
 
EllieTO said:
I'm still toying with what to do with Maxine. At first I was in awe with how nice she's cut, then disappointed that I wasn't seeing the OEC facet pattern I like. She's pretty but not my type, if that makes sense. I put her away for a few days to think about it. I was playing with a loupe today and I can't get over how perfect she is! I can't see any inclusions or blemishes other than the chip. The cut is so precise. The facets dance all around and there's no obstruction under any conditions (I'm using the big words now!) I realized there is no culet, and I think it's actually more of a transitional than OEC?

As I was examining her today, I was thinking that if I return her, I might look back and kick myself for letting such a pretty stone go just because.... no flower. :confused:

New video here. I also ordered a camera microscope lens, so I'll post more when I get those pictures and videos.
https://imgur.com/a/nLjcRfr

I'm not talking about my Sako stone because that's decided. :mrgreen2: I just need to start the thread on her setting. She seems to be shrinking by the day though. :lol-2:
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I know the regret feeling and the "too small" feeling all too well!! I started with 2.25 and now I am up to 5.46 with a halo and a 3 stone that is 8 carats total. I was like this before I came here, now I just feel OK admitting it... LOL
 
Dreamer_D said:
Maxine is a picture perfect American Cut, which is the precursor to the modern round brilliant. She is exceedingly rare! I own one of these amazing early ideal cuts too and they are treasures. They existed for only about 10 years and are among the most rare old cuts because so many were cut into modern rounds. They look spectacular bezelled or in enclosed settings that amp up the contrast and emphasize the fat arrows.
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You're such an enabler! And I was actually considering a bezel setting, which would work well because of the chip too. I'm not usually a big fan of bezels, but I have a specific inspiration in mind and I think it would be a good candidate for David Klass.

@lavenderdragonfly23 @maryjane04 - I'm wondering why everyone is suggesting a pendant for Maxine. I'm not considering a pendant, but just wondering if there's anything about it that wouldn't work well in a ring?
 
I just assumed you were putting your other diamond in a ring and you weren’t mad about this cut (ar first) and so for variety I was suggesting a pendant. There’s no reason not to put this in a ring.
 
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