How to choose an emerald?

[mellowyellowgirl]

From what I have seen, some factors will drive the price up
How much oil (of course). There is also a warning from GRS re: emeralds that are so called no-oil emeralds so please beware. https://www.gemresearch.ch/news/2022/01/07/adjustment-to-terminology-on-grs-reports-for-emeralds
Size - price per carat jumps at intervals eg 5 ct and 10 ct
Shade of green - Vivid Green? Or just green, or special appendix?
A GRS Special appendix indicating Old Mine, Muzo Green drives the price up significantly.

I'm a bit thick so hoping to ask you for more info on this.

So I understand the whole thing about the reports from GRS. In terms of real life application is it implying that some vendors send an emerald off for reporting ( with no oil but with fissures), obtain the report and then dip the emeralds in oil so the final consumer has a "no oil" report but they're holding an oiled emerald that looks better?

 

[HockeyMama]

Very timely. I went to Bayco in NYC today and saw some incredible old mine muzo emeralds and some new mine, as well as a lovely no oil Zambian. In discussion with one of the family, he said that a true no oil emerald has no cracks or fissures through which the oil can be introduced. I asked if he had a Gota de Aciete example, because I’d love to see one in real life, and he has one in his entire inventory, and it was not in NY. However, these folks have an excellent reputation and definitely have the right stuff. I am attaching pictures. The box contains an old mine, new mine and no oil Zambian. The necklace is old mine and phenomenal.

Thank you for these photos! I think if I had an emerald concierge I would be open to different colors and origins because I think these are all beautiful. We do get to New York once a year so I will read up on them. I’ve said it before but I wish there was an emerald version of an ACA. Even if I find the right color and clarity, the three stone has a major window! I may enjoy the hunt for my stone as much as getting it!

 

[HockeyMama]

I'm a bit thick so hoping to ask you for more info on this.

So I understand the whole thing about the reports from GRS. In terms of real life application is it implying that some vendors send an emerald off for reporting ( with no oil but with fissures), obtain the report and then dip the emeralds in oil so the final consumer has a "no oil" report but they're holding an oiled emerald that looks better?

That’s exactly what I’ve read! So either you need a vendor who is highly reliable and/or your purchase is contingent on obtaining a new report.

 

[Crimson]

I'm a bit thick so hoping to ask you for more info on this.

So I understand the whole thing about the reports from GRS. In terms of real life application is it implying that some vendors send an emerald off for reporting ( with no oil but with fissures), obtain the report and then dip the emeralds in oil so the final consumer has a "no oil" report but they're holding an oiled emerald that looks better?

Yes @mellowyellowgirl That is what they are saying, not only oil but resin. So that is why they have a new way of reporting. That is also why Alexander Laut asked me to get Muzo Minerva re-certified when buying her, just in case additional work was done after the original report.
A similar problem with “unheated” rubies was reported by Lotus Gemology - the stones were not heated, but treated with oil. https://www.lotusgemology.com/index.php/library/articles/315-oiled-gems-lab-alert-lotus-gemology

 

[Crimson]

Very timely. I went to Bayco in NYC today and saw some incredible old mine muzo emeralds and some new mine, as well as a lovely no oil Zambian. In discussion with one of the family, he said that a true no oil emerald has no cracks or fissures through which the oil can be introduced. I asked if he had a Gota de Aciete example, because I’d love to see one in real life, and he has one in his entire inventory, and it was not in NY. However, these folks have an excellent reputation and definitely have the right stuff. I am attaching pictures. The box contains an old mine, new mine and no oil Zambian. The necklace is old mine and phenomenal.

Yummy, @Mrsz1ppy i like Bayco too. I can spot the Zambian emerald in the box right away. That necklace is beautiful!!!!
How was the air quality in NY?

 

[LilAlex]

I think if I had an emerald concierge I would be open to different colors and origins because I think these are all beautiful.

I used Inken at Enhoerning for a tiny (< 0.5 ct), no-oil, well-cut, perfect-color emerald with virtually no inclusions -- to the extent that origin was indeterminate. I would have a really hard time buying an emerald on the internet no matter how many photos and videos were provided. I am not opposed to a Muzo look-alike from another locale (e.g., Zambia) but I would need an experienced and somewhat disinterested third party for reassurance. Everything looks beautiful right out of the box; it needs to be seen next to the color archetype to truly gauge quality.

Glow is such a catch-all term. To me, it's a diffuse super-brightness to the color -- in contrast to flashes of light. In corundum, it's light return + body color + light-to-medium tone + just enough silk to scatter the light but not so much that it noticeably impedes light return. It's also more of a direct-sun phenomenon. Spouse has a very glowy blue sapphire that I love in full sun -- although it looks perfectly eye-clean and even loupe-clean. She has a glowy pink sapphire that is chock-full of sugar-like inclusions just below eye-visibility

Since "inclusions" in emerald are almost always fractures (plus some liquid inclusions, IIRC), getting that glow from a cabochon emerald means a lot of microfractures. Getting glow from a faceted emerald is similar to a faceted sapphire except instead of rutile silk, it's well-dispersed tiny fractures -- which is a bit of a scary thought.

If you can line up a bunch at Bayco like @Mrsz1ppy, that's certainly the way to go! I will say that the colored stones that I've bought in person had generally "never seen the light of day" and the (very experienced and reputable) seller had no idea what they looked like under full sun or (my favorite for blue sapphire) a bright overcast sky. We paid a fairly ordinary price for my wife's best sapphire many years ago -- it was pretty in the store but nuts outdoors (oh, like my wife).

 

[HockeyMama]

@LilAlex thank you for your perspective. I have lots of reservations about this but was somewhat encouraged by recent PS online emerald purchases.

I've also thought of going the vintage route and getting a vintage cartier or tiffany emerald ring, and am not opposed to the name upcharge, but I fear that in the end those stones themselves may not be really magnificent.

I am also open to stones from other reagions, like Zambia, I was hoping to level the field for myself a little by focusing on muzo origin. I've seen on PS some gorgeous Zambian stones.

The only emeralds I've met so far that I don't like are the yellow green ones and the light ones.

 

[LilAlex]

The only emeralds I've met so far that I don't like are the yellow green ones and the light ones.

I agree on "no yellow." But the lighter-toned bluish-green ones seem to be much more affordable and I love the almost-minty color -- and so do some other folks here. Like a super-vibrant cuprian tourmaline.

Trade-ideal colors are funny. Few here are seeking a "classic" Burma-colored sapphire -- most want a super-vivid medium tone. It seems like the most experienced folks here have wandered into "I like what I like" territory rather than "I seek what I have learned is the most ideal." I am not criticizing you; I would love a sizable trade-ideal emerald but it's just not where I am going to spend my money.

Muzo origin, as I know you know, is not a mark of color or quality. Look at all the pale, included "Kashmir" garbage on eBay -- some of it even with reports from reputable labs. But an emerald that is lovely and that is also Muzo -- that's a rare and desirable combination.

 

[LilAlex]

...but I fear that in the end those stones themselves may not be really magnificent.

Vintage Cartier not quite good enough, you say?

So one more thing: if you really are seeking magnificent, then I think you will need to do some traveling. The price of a plane ticket is only a tiny surcharge if you are looking for world-class. I have never done this -- but it has crossed my mind. For many reasons, and not the least of which is financial, I'm trying to stay on the correct side of the hobby vs. obsession continuum.

 

[HockeyMama]

I agree on "no yellow." But the lighter-toned bluish-green ones seem to be much more affordable and I love the almost-minty color -- and so do some other folks here. Like a super-vibrant cuprian tourmaline.

Trade-ideal colors are funny. Few here are seeking a "classic" Burma-colored sapphire -- most want a super-vivid medium tone. It seems like the most experienced folks here have wandered into "I like what I like" territory rather than "I seek what I have learned is the most ideal." I am not criticizing you; I would love a sizable trade-ideal emerald but it's just not where I am going to spend my money.

Muzo origin, as I know you know, is not a mark of color or quality. Look at all the pale, included "Kashmir" garbage on eBay -- some of it even with reports from reputable labs. But an emerald that is lovely and that is also Muzo -- that's a rare and desirable combination.

I don't really want or need trade ideal. I'm using that as a proxy for a great stone given that I clearly have no idea what I'm doing. Kind of like choosing ACAs for my diamonds. It's not so much the cost of the flight but finding the time.

 

[HockeyMama]

Vintage Cartier? OK, so I love this ring that I found, but I think the stone has inclusions and other bad stuff? Am I wrong? Would love y'all's opinion.

It's got a GCS cert, minor oil, F1, colombian origin, 3.1 carat, "medium dark bluish green".

 

[LilAlex]

Vintage Cartier? OK, so I love this ring that I found, but I think the stone has inclusions and other bad stuff? Am I wrong? Would love y'all's opinion.

I agree it specs nicely. is it really Cartier? Depends on the reseller, imo. I agree that it does not look vibrant or super-desirable in those photos -- maybe too shallow a cut (I can't see the pavilion), which would be unexpected for Cartier.

 

[Crimson]

Vintage Cartier? OK, so I love this ring that I found, but I think the stone has inclusions and other bad stuff? Am I wrong? Would love y'all's opinion.

It's got a GCS cert, minor oil, F1, colombian origin, 3.1 carat, "medium dark bluish green".

The side stones are nice - wonder why the main stone looks so shallow? I agree with @LilAlex. The middle pic makes the stone almost like a portrait cut . The prongs look similar to those of this ring. https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/2021/magnificent-jewels-3/cartier-emerald-and-diamond-ring
My questions would be: What’s the condition of the ring? How old is the gem report? Is there a pic of the Cartier hallmark?

 

[HockeyMama]

Here is the ring. I believe it all lines up. But I agree the stone doesn’t look great. It’s priced at $70k euro. That’s what I meant about even paying a premium and going with a hallmark does not ensure a fabulous stone.

Cartier Emerald and Diamond Ring - Diamond Engagement Rings, Sapphire Ruby and Emerald Jewellery from Weldons of Dublin

Diamond Engagment Rings and Vintage Sapphire & Gemstone Jewellery from Weldons of Dublin. Shop our selection now.

weldons.ie

There is one US based emerald dealer I have found, JR Columbian. Their inventory just doesn’t seem to match George’s, but several PS’s have rings. I’ve never seen anything close to Minerva.

I’ve also started looking at an auction house and some antique dealers. Maybe settling on a non branded vintage ring would satisfy my search for glow. I really am not looking for a trade ideal stone, just a beautiful one.

 

[Crimson]

Since there’s been quite a bit of discussion on glow, I decided to check Richard Wise’s Secrets of the Gem Trade, He refers to the Old Mine crystal of a emerald as a wildcard property that can significantly increase the price.
“ I had the privilege of comparing several of these old mine gems. This quality can be seen when comparing a very fine crystalline emerald mined recently with one of these old mine gems. They do indeed exhibit a thick crystalline quality reminiscent of light passing through honey or oil.

Part II - Secrets of the Gem Trade

Pricing the Crème de la crème of Gems Part II (Quality, Rarity and Value) by Richard W. Wise, G.G. ©2007 Wildcard Properties: Some gem varieties also sport particular qualities, what I shall call wildcard properties that affect one or more of The Four Cs of Connoisseurship (color, cut clarity...

secretsofthegemtrade.com

I’ve attached photos of Minerva with the relevant extracts from the most recent edition of Wise’s book.

 

[Crimson]

Here is the ring. I believe it all lines up. But I agree the stone doesn’t look great. It’s priced at $70k euro. That’s what I meant about even paying a premium and going with a hallmark does not ensure a fabulous stone.

Cartier Emerald and Diamond Ring - Diamond Engagement Rings, Sapphire Ruby and Emerald Jewellery from Weldons of Dublin

Diamond Engagment Rings and Vintage Sapphire & Gemstone Jewellery from Weldons of Dublin. Shop our selection now.

weldons.ie

There is one US based emerald dealer I have found, JR Columbian. Their inventory just doesn’t seem to match George’s, but several PS’s have rings. I’ve never seen anything close to Minerva.

I’ve also started looking at an auction house and some antique dealers. Maybe settling on a non branded vintage ring would satisfy my search for glow. I really am not looking for a trade ideal stone, just a beautiful one.

Oh yes, I have seen JR on Instagram. Their stones do look nice. I like your emphasis on buying an emerald that you would enjoy looking at, never mind the brand or trade ideal. Just enjoy the chase!
Re: Cartier, and without any disrespect to my friends who work there, they don’t always have the best stones. See their High Jewellery Holika ring (pic below). The design is sumptuous butI think many PSers’ rubellites — @mellowyellowgirl and @icy_jade for example — look better, and the pic is an official Cartier pic! .
https://news.artnet.com/art-world/cartier-jewelry-coloratura-jewelry-1314917
It would be hard to find another Minerva. The jewellers and dealers, including the B2B supplier, told me she is truly special. The most frequent comment I got was “Well, I don’t have one like that, and I’m not sure whether I could find one”. She looks even better in person.

 

[HockeyMama]

Oh yes, I have seen JR on Instagram. Their stones do look nice. I like your emphasis on buying an emerald that you would enjoy looking at, never mind the brand or trade ideal. Just enjoy the chase!
Re: Cartier, and without any disrespect to my friends who work there, they don’t always have the best stones. See their High Jewellery Holika ring (pic below). The design is sumptuous butI think many PSers’ rubellites — @mellowyellowgirl and @icy_jade for example — look better, and the pic is an official Cartier pic! .
https://news.artnet.com/art-world/cartier-jewelry-coloratura-jewelry-1314917
It would be hard to find another Minerva. The jewellers and dealers, including the B2B supplier, told me she is truly special. The most frequent comment I got was “Well, I don’t have one like that, and I’m not sure whether I could find one”. She looks even better in person.

Thank you for validating my uneducated opinion about the Cartier piece. I love the art deco design, just not the emerald! I'll keep hunting, and when I find a stone I'll post it here. Thank you!

 

[HockeyMama]

One more question... emeralds have a reputation of being more fragile. I understand this is because of their inclusions and fissures and cracks and etc. If one were to get a stone with no surface reaching problems and minimal inclusions, does that mean that perhaps the stone would be more durable? This is why I defaulted to minor oil or better.

 

[toomuchB]

If one were to get a stone with no surface reaching problems and minimal inclusions, does that mean that perhaps the stone would be more durable? This is why I defaulted to minor oil or better.

I read online that an insignificant oil grading can be caused by skin oils creeping into tiny surface fissures on an untreated stone, but I cannot find the source - can anyone confirm? If that is accurate, I don't think there should be much of a durability difference between no oil and some insignificant oil emeralds.
To sort of back up what I said about skin oils, SSEF's site mentions 'If an insignificant amount of filler (e.g. oil, artificial resin) is present in a stone, this is not mentioned on an SSEF report.', suggesting insignificant oil is, in fact, literally insignificant. Not sure about minor oil and durability.

 

[LilAlex]

One more question... emeralds have a reputation of being more fragile. I understand this is because of their inclusions and fissures and cracks and etc. If one were to get a stone with no surface reaching problems and minimal inclusions, does that mean that perhaps the stone would be more durable? This is why I defaulted to minor oil or better.

I think that's even a different league. "No oil" can show a lot of jardin; it need not mean that oil would not improve the appearance. But typically for most of us (at the better-than-consumer but below world class level that we play) , "no oil" is a marker for very high quality.

"No oil" plus no "oil-able" features is a big step further and I have almost never seen that in a gem the size you are shopping. That would be low-to-mid six figures based on what I have stumbled across on other sites -- and that I have only casually investigated when trying to determine why a pretty gem or jewel in a vendor's inventory is several times more expensive than I anticipated.

To your question, I don't think the extra beauty or durability would warrant the premium but others might think so (perhaps for the rarity alone. Think of aqua -- same gem-beryl with no inclusions or fractures but still not sturdy or robust. I think any emerald is a special-occasion ring. Pendant may be different, unless it swings into the driver-side car window as you are getting in...

With (what I now infer to be) your budget, and from what I have heard on this forum over the past few years, I think you should reach out to muzoemeralds directly or contact Inken. You can't spend that kind of money and still have a bunch of what-ifs after. I would need some objective hand-holding/vetting if I were to ever splurge on a fine emerald or ruby.

 

[Crimson]

One more question... emeralds have a reputation of being more fragile. I understand this is because of their inclusions and fissures and cracks and etc. If one were to get a stone with no surface reaching problems and minimal inclusions, does that mean that perhaps the stone would be more durable? This is why I defaulted to minor oil or better.

That is why I think high quality cabochons are worth considering! Glad Ronald Abram posted this.

Cabochons: A Love Affair

Renowned high jewellery, rare gems specialist - yellow diamonds, fancy colour diamonds, vintage, bridal, gentlemen’s jewels. Guardians of family legacies for half a century, creating timeless pieces worthy of collection. Discover our collections.

www.ronaldabram.com

 

[LilAlex]

Thank you for validating my uneducated opinion about the Cartier piece. I love the art deco design, just not the emerald!

Just looked at the listing you posted and it is probably (?) very windowed; I do not see many courses of pavilion facets when it is photographed through the table.

It could always be "Monture Cartier": https://cartiercollector.com/monture-cartier/

I saw a ring like that online -- maybe Berganza?

 

[HockeyMama]

That is why I think high quality cabochons are worth considering! Glad Ronald Abram posted this.

Cabochons: A Love Affair

Renowned high jewellery, rare gems specialist - yellow diamonds, fancy colour diamonds, vintage, bridal, gentlemen’s jewels. Guardians of family legacies for half a century, creating timeless pieces worthy of collection. Discover our collections.

www.ronaldabram.com

I worry cabs, which are higher domed, are going to scare me a little more. I think my next colored gem will be a cab.

 

[HockeyMama]

I think that's even a different league. "No oil" can show a lot of jardin; it need not mean that oil would not improve the appearance. But typically for most of us (at the better-than-consumer but below world class level that we play) , "no oil" is a marker for very high quality.

"No oil" plus no "oil-able" features is a big step further and I have almost never seen that in a gem the size you are shopping. That would be low-to-mid six figures based on what I have stumbled across on other sites -- and that I have only casually investigated when trying to determine why a pretty gem or jewel in a vendor's inventory is several times more expensive than I anticipated.

To your question, I don't think the extra beauty or durability would warrant the premium but others might think so (perhaps for the rarity alone. Think of aqua -- same gem-beryl with no inclusions or fractures but still not sturdy or robust. I think any emerald is a special-occasion ring. Pendant may be different, unless it swings into the driver-side car window as you are getting in...

With (what I now infer to be) your budget, and from what I have heard on this forum over the past few years, I think you should reach out to muzoemeralds directly or contact Inken. You can't spend that kind of money and still have a bunch of what-ifs after. I would need some objective hand-holding/vetting if I were to ever splurge on a fine emerald or ruby.

Ha! My budget is flexible. I want to pay the least amount (as every consumer does) for a stone that makes me happy in a size that looks good on my finger!

 

[HockeyMama]

So, I went through stones at JR Columbian and found two... am I close? Lots had windows, black inclusions, surface reaching inclusions. And oddly sometimes it only says "oil" and not how much, and they don't show all the certificates. Of course, the images are ginormous, so who knows what I would have seen on those in real life?

4.93 Carat Minor Oil 10.5 x 9.5 Vivid Bluish Natural Loose Colombian Emerald-Cushion Cut

Discover the 4.93 Carat Minor Oil 10.5 x 9.5 Vivid Bluish Natural Loose Colombian Emerald-Cushion Cut, featuring excellent luster and a certificate of authenticity.

jrcolombianemeralds.com

2.60 Carat AAA+ Minor Oil Vivid Green Natural Loose Colombian Emerald-Cushion Cut 9x8 Cushion Cut Emerald

Stone: EmeraldWeight: 2.60-caratsShape: Cushion Cut Clarity: TransparentLuster: ExcellentColor: Vivid GreenMeasurements: 8.60mm x 8.14mm x 6.43mmGeographic Origin: ColombiaTreatment: Natural, Minor OilComments: Due to their growth conditions in nature and recovery methods, most emeralds contain...

jrcolombianemeralds.com

Will these glow? Are they nicely cut? No terrible inclusions?

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

Thank you for these photos! I think if I had an emerald concierge I would be open to different colors and origins because I think these are all beautiful. We do get to New York once a year so I will read up on them. I’ve said it before but I wish there was an emerald version of an ACA. Even if I find the right color and clarity, the three stone has a major window! I may enjoy the hunt for my stone as much as getting it!

I always enjoy the hunt!

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

Yummy, @Mrsz1ppy i like Bayco too. I can spot the Zambian emerald in the box right away. That necklace is beautiful!!!!
How was the air quality in NY?

Had to use my inhaler on Wednesday but otherwise ok

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

Here is the ring. I believe it all lines up. But I agree the stone doesn’t look great. It’s priced at $70k euro. That’s what I meant about even paying a premium and going with a hallmark does not ensure a fabulous stone.

Cartier Emerald and Diamond Ring - Diamond Engagement Rings, Sapphire Ruby and Emerald Jewellery from Weldons of Dublin

Diamond Engagment Rings and Vintage Sapphire & Gemstone Jewellery from Weldons of Dublin. Shop our selection now.

weldons.ie

There is one US based emerald dealer I have found, JR Columbian. Their inventory just doesn’t seem to match George’s, but several PS’s have rings. I’ve never seen anything close to Minerva.

I’ve also started looking at an auction house and some antique dealers. Maybe settling on a non branded vintage ring would satisfy my search for glow. I really am not looking for a trade ideal stone, just a beautiful one.

I have bought an emerald ring from Garrett of Weldon‘s. And Burma ruby earrings. My unbranded one from him is a better color and no oil. He could be a source if you tell him what you are looking for. Plus the price should discount because it includes value added tax you shouldn’t have to pay since you are exporting. Pics show one of the earrings. The bigger emerald is from Weldon.

 

[HockeyMama]

I have bought an emerald ring from Garrett of Weldon‘s. And Burma ruby earrings. My unbranded one from him is a better color and no oil. He could be a source if you tell him what you are looking for. Plus the price should discount because it includes value added tax you shouldn’t have to pay since you are exporting. Pics show one of the earrings. The bigger emerald is from Weldon.

Your emerald is actually what sent me to Weldon's looking! What a gorgeous emerald.

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

Your emerald is actually what sent me to Weldon's looking! What a gorgeous emerald.

Thanks! Bayco just posted a sweet one on IG