Hypothetical Question for Men (OK OK OK Women Too)

[HollyS]

There's an assumption there that the woman who had the guts to call it quits would then still want a man who felt 'forced' to propose/marry because of an ultimatum - - rather than his desire to make the commitment.

I wouldn't take him back if he proposed. I might consider 'talking', seeing a therapist together or separately, and a whole host of other "let's start from ground zero and see if we can find out the why and the what that is holding this relationship in limbo". But I would never accept a proposal without that groundwork.

Oh. And I would never have set an actual deadline for him. My heart may have had one in mind, but he wouldn't know when. That's pressure to force a commitment. See above.

 

[elrohwen]

Whitby, I totally agree that girls could do more proposing in order to get what they wanted. However, if a guy is dragging his feet, I think that''s a clear sign to the girl that his answer would be "no" or "yes - but not yet". She needs for him to actually propose in order to know that he really wants it too. I think it''s great for the girl to propose if both people are clearly on the same page, but in cases like the thread we''re referring to, the desire to get married was all on the side of the girl and the guy was not on the same page at all.

 

[doodle]

This whole thread reminds me of my best friend. She and her bf have been together for four or five years, they live together, etc. and she is proposal-obsessed because she''s at a point where all of her friends are getting married, her mother''s pressuring her about it, etc., and she genuinely loves this guy to bits. Because of all the added BS, she''s getting really frustrated that he hasn''t proposed yet, but I keep telling her she needs to chill because sometimes a guy taking a while to propose has nothing to do with him not wanting to get married!!! In her bf''s case, he approached me about a year ago and told me he wanted to propose to her and asked me to help him do a little ring-scouting, but he won''t propose to her until he can afford to get her a ring. He says that he loves her, and he wants her to have that perfect proposal/perfect ring BLAH BLAH BLAH for her to show off. This is a case where he''s flat out said he''d marry her at the courthouse tomorrow but is afraid that she''d regret not having the big to-do later on. It''s just messed up to me that people put all these expectations on the man to deliver this perfect gift-wrapped romantic proposal, and for what? So you have a story to brag about? If your expectations are delaying your partner''s proposing, I don''t think giving him an ultimatum is nearly as helpful as getting over yourself would be. BLAH! Sorry! That turned into a vent instead of a reply to your poll! Um...my answer was D for a woman. =D

 

[jet2ks]

Date: 4/29/2009 7:59:40 PM
Author: strmrdr
none of the above....
I would have been out the door the second she said there was a deadline.

Yup!

 

[whitby_2773]

elrohwen!!

i did a GREAT response to you - full, complete, erudite, persuasive...

then hit the back key, then some other button, then got into a pickle and lost the whole thing!

anyway, i''m sure most of what i said was disposable, except for the beginning, which was...

"Good morning, lovely elrohwen!

 

[tlh]

actions speak louder than words. and empty promises are empty in the end. Sometimes you need a drop dead date. If someone feels the need to give an ultimatum, no matter how rosey a picture they are trying to paint... then things aren''t so rosey, when someone is that unhappy about something... whatever that "deal breaker" is.

Basil said it best.

 

[elrohwen]

Lol, Whitby.

If you have time to type something up again, I''d love to read it! I don''t think anyone talks about women proposing enough.

 

[RubyCharm]

Date: 4/30/2009 5:00:56 AM
Author: LaraOnline

Date: 4/29/2009 11:56:33 PM

Author: RubyCharm

My Hypothesis:

.../...

I think a guy in this situation who tries to contact his ex-girlfriend is more likely to be following ANSWER B; unless he’s a complete idiot.



In the case of the poster referenced by purrfectpear, the ex was trying to reach her (by calling her, texting her, and emailing her) and meet with her. But, since he didn’t show up on her door step with a ring, everybody told the poster to be a bad@$$ and ignore him, because he was just trying to continue to 'feed her crumbs' (even though he's only missed the poster's deadline ONCE). I advised the poster to meet with him, IF she really loved him and if there were no other major issues in the relationship. But, I also advised her to move on with her life if she thought that he wasn’t worth it.

Ruby I agree with you. She has to be sure she wants to meet with him, and be willing to give him another, say, three to six months of her time. A knee-jerk reunion, with no firm conclusion, is a kind of a half-life for a girl, and is not a good way to live.


The only reason I didn't vote A is that there seems such a strong pressure for the 'perfect proposal', and also, more importantly, if you just show up with the ring, revenge might get in the way!


I was proposed to as a surprise once a long time ago, after waiting such a long time to the point where I went off the guy, when he proposed it took all my darn will power not to throw the ring in the water / sand.


But by holding out so long, I could really see that guy was all wrong for me, he'd really been coasting on me. I hated him for destroying my dreams and not just being honest, a long time earlier.


So very glad I married my DH instead! He has always treated me with the utmost respoect and honour.


My 'long wait' was a lucky escape! But I know every one has a different story about love!

Yup, I totally agree. I don't think you should give second chances if you are no longer sure if the guy in question is THE ONE for you. I think, in that case, you'd be just wasting your precious time and you have all the right to be a bad@$$, if that's what you really want. BUT, if you are crazy in love with this guy, and this guy is crazy in love with you, and you both have a wonderful, healthy, and happy relationship, except for the fact that you gave him a deadline and he missed it, I think you might want to reconsider your bad@$$ attitude. That's all I wanted to tell the poster who started the thread referenced by purrfectpear. I's not true that I was all for giving him another chance blindly. In fact, if he hadn't contacted her at all, I would have thought that he was probably following something similar to ANSWER D. However, since he tried to reach her, I thought it would be odd if this guy was simply trying to follow ANSWER C in this poll. To me, it made a lot more sense that he was probably following ANSWER B. I mean, it's not like the poster said that this guy had already promised to marry her MANY times in the past and had already missed MANY deadlines to propose so that it would be very obvious that he just wanted to continue to "feed her crumbs." So, I decided to share my unconventional opinion in that one-sided thread and *some people* responded to my posts by implying that I was one of those girls who'd rather be with a "fixable" guy than with no guy all and that I lacked self-respect. All I wanted to do was to encourage the poster to look at things from a different angle, since it became very clear that everybody (but one other poster besides myself) thought that she should be a bad@$$ no matter what, unless her ex came running after her and showed up on her door step, begging for forgiveness and with a ring in hand (seriously, how many guys would do that???).

The sad thing is: this guy NEVER actually said that he didn't want to marry this girl (and even called her his "wife to be" and had been looking at houses--even putting an offer on one--), but that he would like to move in with her first as a way of "moving forward towards engagement" because he loved her and didn't want to lose her and even made it clear that he wanted to have a family with her someday. However, he just happened to think that "living together would give us the opportunity to work the details [of the engagement] out" (which makes me think that the problem was not necessarily that he didn't want to marry her, but that he wanted to move in together first... which can also be a deal breaker for some couples, but it's not like he was clearly commitment-phobic). Additionally, he had contacted her dad, because he wanted to meet with him right after he (the ex) got back from an important two-week business trip, which he probably spent a lot of time preparing for, and in which he was supposed to have a huge responsibility (since he'd in charge of a group of 100 people). However, this meeting with her father never took place, because the girl dropped the bomb and broke up with him on the day he was supposed to go on his business trip (which was also supposed to be THE deadline). Then, she started a thread here in PS asking people to tell her that she had done the right thing. By the time I wrote my first post, everybody had been cheering her up for being such a bad@$$ and reinforcing this attitude. I'm by no means an expert in relationship issues, but I thought that if I ever happened to be in that crappy situation, I would appreciate any comments that would help me consider all perspectives and not just one, so I shared my opinion (although I honestly felt like I came from another planet, so I decided to test my hypothesis for fun in this poll

).

 

[RubyCharm]

Date: 4/30/2009 6:12:53 AM
Author: whitby_2773
i''ve never understood why the woman just couldn''t propose. i really dont. i just dont get it. i mean - are the words ''would you like to marry me?'' somehow gender specific? it''s always seemed very passive to me to really want something and not to organise it yourself. if you want the proposal, the ring, the romantic gesture - fine, i understand that totally. but if you dont care about the process, just the end result, i''ve never understood why more women dont pop the question.


if i''d been waiting 7 years (and just to clarify -i would NEVER wait 7 years - unless we started dating when i was 12!) and i wanted to marry somebody, i''d propose to them. not in a hypothetical, ''sometime way off when'' kind of way - but in a specific, ''would you like to marry me, set a date, and get engaged now'' kind of way. i''d let them know it was a genuine question which required an answer. if they said yes - great! if they said no - also fine. ''yes - but not right now'' qualifies as a no, given that the question is ''would you like to marry me and get engaged (now) and set a concrete date, announce this to family and friends, etcetc'' if they said no and i wanted a yes, it''d be over for me on the basis that we were on different pages. sad - but there it is.

I agree with you 100%

on this one.

I even mentioned something similar in the thread on which I based my poll. But apparently, for some women, this amounts to losing your decency and self-respect

.

 

[RubyCharm]

Date: 4/30/2009 10:50:26 AM
Author: whitby_2773
elrohwen!!


i did a GREAT response to you - full, complete, erudite, persuasive...


then hit the back key, then some other button, then got into a pickle and lost the whole thing!


anyway, i''m sure most of what i said was disposable, except for the beginning, which was...


''Good morning, lovely elrohwen!

LOL

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 4/30/2009 8:41:46 AM
Author: MishB

Date: 4/30/2009 8:18:31 AM

Author: LaraOnline

Date: 4/30/2009 7:21:57 AM


Author: MishB


I voted D.




I've always considered myself lucky (although I'm sure many members would pity me), I never got a proposal, or an engagement ring, because we just knew from the very beginning we were going to get married, and the discussions were all about how and when. However, if he had said from the start he wasn't interested in ever getting married, we'd still be very much together, because he and our relationship mean much more to me than a piece of paper or a legal ceremony. I just can't understand how anyone could walk out of an otherwise good relationship with someone they love simply because he won't 'put a ring on it'.

For your question:


I just can't understand how anyone could walk out of an otherwise good relationship with someone they love simply because he won't 'put a ring on it'.



Your bolded quotes are your own answer. For the must-be marrieds, marriage is not a piece of paper or a legal ceremony. If that was the case, we would probably go for the prenups!

It wasn't a question.

OMG! You posted a smiley, but I don't think you were really being friendly.
Sorry if I annoyed you.

 

[MishB]

Date: 5/1/2009 4:51:54 AM
Author: LaraOnline

Date: 4/30/2009 8:41:46 AM

Author: MishB

Date: 4/30/2009 8:18:31 AM


Author: LaraOnline

Date: 4/30/2009 7:21:57 AM



Author: MishB



I voted D.





I''ve always considered myself lucky (although I''m sure many members would pity me), I never got a proposal, or an engagement ring, because we just knew from the very beginning we were going to get married, and the discussions were all about how and when. However, if he had said from the start he wasn''t interested in ever getting married, we''d still be very much together, because he and our relationship mean much more to me than a piece of paper or a legal ceremony. I just can''t understand how anyone could walk out of an otherwise good relationship with someone they love simply because he won''t ''put a ring on it''.

For your question:



I just can''t understand how anyone could walk out of an otherwise good relationship with someone they love simply because he won''t ''put a ring on it''.




Your bolded quotes are your own answer. For the must-be marrieds, marriage is not a piece of paper or a legal ceremony. If that was the case, we would probably go for the prenups!

It wasn''t a question.

OMG! You posted a smiley, but I don''t think you were really being friendly.

Sorry if I annoyed you.

Of course you didn''t annoy me.

Sincere

 

[perry]

None of the above (I did not vote):

While Storms answer probably applies to many situations; I am open enough to hear and consider the reasons behind the deadline and my current reasons for wanting to wait on my part. As such, I''d be willing to have a discussion (and perhaps a series of discussions) on the issues behind the deadline and where both of us are at. I would expect the results of said discussion to either more firmly cement the romantic/partner relationship between us (with or without a deadline) or to end it.

I personally went through a multi-year situation where I wanted to marry someone (D in my old post); and while she also was interested in marriage with me she would never commit (we are a personality match and complement each other in other ways too). In the end - we identified what are probably the key reasons preventing her from committing - and we no longer persue marriage. We are still freinds - and still talk each week - and still visit each other from time to time (although I havn''t seen her since the beginning of the year). I am sure we will be friends forever. While possible, I doubt that she can overcome the issues that prevented her from agreeing to actually marry me. So now I am looking for another.

A general comment: Trust is a major factor. If you cannot tust your supposed partner / SO and/or you cannot trust yourself - then you can''t have much of a relationship beyond convience, sex, and simple freindship. In my view, setting a deadline unless there is a good reason (and I conceed that in some cases - perhaps not many - but some that there could ber a good reason); that without a good reason - that the deadline indicates a lack of trust (hence why so many guys would very quickly walk).

Of course, if you don''t trust the relationship or your partner/SO this is certainly a solid way of raising that flag and ending the relationship.

Perry

 

[JSM]

I don't get this whole "waiting for a proposal" thing. If you and your man are working towards marriage, then there would be no need for a deadline. Engagement isn't a one sided decision. Maybe I'm looking at things too simplistically, but in my view, if a man wants to get married, HE WILL DO IT.

That said, my now aunt dated my uncle for years without a proposal. He didn't want to get married, she did, so she left him. There was no deadline, she just took him at his word that marriage wasn't for him, so she decided to move on. Two months later he was at her doorstep with a ring.

They are happily married 15 years later.

If you are honest with your partner about your intentions, then maybe these situations won't happen. If women are waiting for years for a proposal with no end in sight, I think someone isn't being honest, and maybe the relationship isn't meant to be.

 

[tlh]

Date: 5/1/2009 12:46:51 PM
Author: jsm
I don''t get this whole ''waiting for a proposal'' thing. If you and your man are working towards marriage, then there would be no need for a deadline. Engagement isn''t a one sided decision. Maybe I''m looking at things too simplistically, but in my view, if a man wants to get married, HE WILL DO IT.

That said, my now aunt dated my uncle for years without a proposal. He didn''t want to get married, she did, so she left him. There was no deadline, she just took him at his word that marriage wasn''t for him, so she decided to move on. Two months later he was at her doorstep with a ring.

They are happily married 15 years later.

If you are honest with your partner about your intentions, then maybe these situations won''t happen. If women are waiting for years for a proposal with no end in sight, I think someone isn''t being honest, and maybe the relationship isn''t meant to be.

I agree. 100%. However, I like the "drop dead" date when it comes to yourself personally. Sometimes guys have internal focuses that are greater than the lady. For my DH it was his own expectation of what he wanted to give me as a ring and a proposal. I wanted the MARRIAGE, and for him to propose that. I know life can throw curveballs, but when someone says they WANT to marry you... and they give EXCUSES, like money... there does come a point where someone needs to put the money where the mouth is. Because if the DESIRE is there... they''ll propose and find a way to pay for the ring. (Or whatever the excuse/obstacle.) My thought is, you need a timeline inside yourself, to say, how long are YOU willing to WAIT? Because if they truly want to marry you... they''ll find a way. However, it wouldn''t be the first time a man has told a woman what she wants to hear, just so she won''t leave him.

 

[partgypsy]

This is just so hypothetical, and what has lead to the deadline, etc. Myself never gave my husband an ultimatum, and don''t think I would have as I would have been perfectly fine staying with him as an unmarried couple as we both considered ourselves in a stable committed relationship, regardless of legal standing.

I think it is fine and fair for either person to have an internal deadline if he/she wants the nature of the relationship to change from casual to serious/commited and it doesn''t happen, to move on. It happens, and it''s only fair for people to move on.

 

[partgypsy]

I''m a woman and yeah it would annoy me too if someone gave me an ultimatum. Ya know what they say, catch more flies with honey.

 

[princesss]

Date: 4/30/2009 8:44:42 AM
Author: HollyS
There''s an assumption there that the woman who had the guts to call it quits would then still want a man who felt ''forced'' to propose/marry because of an ultimatum - - rather than his desire to make the commitment.

I wouldn''t take him back if he proposed. I might consider ''talking'', seeing a therapist together or separately, and a whole host of other ''let''s start from ground zero and see if we can find out the why and the what that is holding this relationship in limbo''. But I would never accept a proposal without that groundwork.

Oh. And I would never have set an actual deadline for him. My heart may have had one in mind, but he wouldn''t know when. That''s pressure to force a commitment. See above.

You know, Holly, I totally agree.

If a guy missed my deadline, it would show me that he didn''t respect me or take me seriously enough to listen. Just like if a guy proposed to me when I''ve told him I''m not ready (if my BF, whom I love with all my heart, proposed tomorrow, I''d break up with him). If they''re not listening or we''re not on the same page, it''s best to end things and find somebody respectful enough of you to listen.

And I''ve been thinking about it, and I don''t know that I''d ever give a "deadline" to propose. At a certain point I''d make it clear that it was expected (but I''m all for "State of the Union" talks every now and then), but if it passed my breaking point, I''d be gone and there''d be very little he could do to get me back. I certainly wouldn''t want him to propose before he was ready, or feel like he was just doing it because he was too scared of losing me. I want my man to be excited about getting married to me. I''ve watched my friend for the past several months get ready to propose (tomorrow''s the day), and he''s excited about it. Really, truly excited. *That''s* what I''d want.

Whew, that turned into quite the novel.

In short, if I said I was gone, I''d want him to respect that. TBH, I don''t find desperation attractive.

 

[Miscka]

Date: 5/1/2009 1:34:58 PM
Author: princesss

Date: 4/30/2009 8:44:42 AM


if it passed my breaking point, I''d be gone and there''d be very little he could do to get me back. I certainly wouldn''t want him to propose before he was ready, or feel like he was just doing it because he was too scared of losing me. I want my man to be excited about getting married to me. I''ve watched my friend for the past several months get ready to propose (tomorrow''s the day), and he''s excited about it. Really, truly excited. *That''s* what I''d want.


Whew, that turned into quite the novel.


In short, if I said I was gone, I''d want him to respect that. TBH, I don''t find desperation attractive.

Huge ditto.

 

[daydreamer]

These are all great points and I think their diversity demonstrates that the answer is that all of the above could happen and that it just depends on the specific relationship.

A couple of points that haven''t been mentioned.

First, unless someone has never mentioned to their SO that they have the goal of getting married, there is an implied married deadline in every relationship. I honestly don''t understand how a guy could be hurt and surprised simply because this was explicitly stated. A proposal is the guy''s way of giving an ultimatum and, frankly, those are quite common.

Second, some people, myself included, work much better on a deadline. I get the most work done, am the most efficient and most motivated when I know that there''s a deadline. Otherwise, it''s something I''ll get around to. This applies to enjoyable things such as visiting a tourist attraction shortly before moving out of an area, using a gift card right before it expires, etc.

Third, some people find making decisions stressful even when the (either) end result is wonderful. They feel a huge sense of relief once the decision has been made (or forced by someone else.)

By the way, I''ve been on both sides of this situation (having to leave a bf who couldn''t bring himself to propose yet and having to discourage another bf from proposing because I couldn''t bring myself to accept yet) and honestly, the outcome was between B and C in both cases. Meeting to make up, wanting to be ready to marry, but ultimately the one one waiting moved on. There was no deliberate stringing along and I truly believe that either of the relationships would have been a lasting marriage.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

To me, getting engaged isn''t about a big proposal or a ring. It is about 2 people sitting down to decide that they do want to get married and they will do so in the near future.

When I hear about people setting deadlines for a proposal, it seems very odd to me. A couple should have been talking openly about marriage, whether they want it and if it is in the near future or now. If their timeline doesn''t match, they should either compromise or realize that their lifegoals are too different. I really wouldn''t like it if my BF said we had to be engaged by a certain date. If I was close to deciding that I wanted to marry him, then I would consider it in that time frame. If I wasn''t, I would just cut my losses.

And, besides, if a woman thinks the time is right for a marriage, then she should propose herself, instead of tieing herself up in knots waiting for him to take the lead. And be prepared to hear anything from "yes!" to "not right now" or even "no".