I am just BESIDE myself...

[Sapphire_Cutie]

ok...quick background...my SO and I have been together for just under a year and a half. Upon 1st meeting SO''s mother it didnt go so well. SO and I had just started dating and I was at his house w/ a couple friends and SO had to step out to take someone home. Well in walks SO''s mother. She basically was VERY rude to me and was making snide lil comments here and there and kinda talking to other people in the room or asking them questions about me as if I wasnt even there. She had made SEVERAL comments then that rubbed me the wrong way and it was brought up NOT ONLY by me...but by our friends that she was BEYOND rude to me.

So after SO dropped me off at home he went directly to his parents house to talk to his mom. She of course said that she wasnt rude at all and she was just asking questions etc to get to know me. So needless to say I didnt care for her much to start but was ALWAYS polite to her when I saw or spoke to her. Then as time went on, and a few months had passed like 7 or so...she started to warm up to me a bit and was really nice. So things have been pretty good. Fast forward til bout 9:30am today...

SO and I were walking our Lab and discussing wedding stuff. I told him that he needed to get the guest list from his side of the family from his mom soon (which he asked her if she would do like a month ago) And his response to me is ''yeah, i dont think thats gunna happen'' I asked him why. He said cuz a few weeks ago he was talking with his mother and she said that she and SO''s father were VERY concerned about us and think that we are rushing things and think that we should wait ATLEAST another year before we get engaged.

I told SO that I think that his moms initial thoughts and impression of me were still true and that she had just decided to start being nice to me after a few months because it didnt look like I was going anywhere too soon. BUT that she didnt expect us to last as long as we have.

His response to that was '' yeah, well...she said that she thought that I (meaning ME not SO) was just a phase that he was going through and would grow out of it'' I am BEYOND livid and hurt by this. There is NO reason for this woman to dislike me. All of her feelings about me are based on the fact that I have a lot of tattoos and I am not the ''type'' of person SHE sees her son with! I have never felt so disgusted and hurt in my entire life.

So naturally I am FURIATED at SO''s mother for being so narrowminded and judgemental and I am also upset with SO for not telling me this when it was all said. Im sure that he was trying to protect me in a way...but it upset me even more ::sigh::

 

[oceanlove]

Wow! What a horrible thing for her to say!

I''m so sorry you have to deal with such an unreasonable woman, especially since you said you''ve been nothing but nice to her.

My question for you is, how did your SO respond to what she said? Does he want to go along with her and put off the engagement, or is he still okay with the original timeline? If you haven''t already, I would talk to him about how much you were hurt by this whole situation. He should be defending you to his family, and really talk to his mother about boundaries. What she''s saying and assuming is crossing a major line IMO. Just because you have tattoos doesn''t mean you''re a bad person, that you love her son any less, or that you won''t be a good wife.

Also, I''m curious...how long after she said all this did he wait to tell you? I''m sure he was just trying to protect you by avoiding telling you, and didn''t want to hurt your feelings. However, in your situation I would also be annoyed that he hadn''t told me immediately.

Good luck with everything!! Keep us updated

 

[Sapphire_Cutie]

Date: 6/28/2008 3:17:01 PM
Author: oceanlove
Wow! What a horrible thing for her to say!

I''m so sorry you have to deal with such an unreasonable woman, especially since you said you''ve been nothing but nice to her.

My question for you is, how did your SO respond to what she said? Does he want to go along with her and put off the engagement, or is he still okay with the original timeline? If you haven''t already, I would talk to him about how much you were hurt by this whole situation. He should be defending you to his family, and really talk to his mother about boundaries. What she''s saying and assuming is crossing a major line IMO. Just because you have tattoos doesn''t mean you''re a bad person, that you love her son any less, or that you won''t be a good wife.

Also, I''m curious...how long after she said all this did he wait to tell you? I''m sure he was just trying to protect you by avoiding telling you, and didn''t want to hurt your feelings. However, in your situation I would also be annoyed that he hadn''t told me immediately.

Good luck with everything!! Keep us updated

oceanlove: I wasnt there when SO and his mom had this convo. But our timeline is the same. Were looking to get married hopefully round Nov of next yr. He says that he told her that hes marrying me reguardless of what she thinks. But again I wasnt there to know exactly what was said. All I know as to WHEN this all was said...is that SO said a few weeks ago. so exactly when i dont know. Also what really made me mad was So''s mom had said that she AND his father were concerned and thought we should wait. Yet SO talked to his dad and brought up what she had said and he had nothing to do with it. So his mom is trying to be manipulative and is being decieptful. His father asked him if he loved me and was happy. SO of course said YES. So his father said then thats all that matters! and to ignore his mom and do what we want. That MAY be easy for SO but NOT for me. How am I supposed to be around this woman KNOWING damn well how she REALLY feels about me and that things that she has said. I honestly want NOTHING to do with her now and want NO help from her reguarding anything having to do with our wedding not financial or otherwise.

 

[gwendolyn]

Moms are sometimes really weird about the ''types'' of people they envision being right for their sons. From what I''ve noticed, a lot of times it''s superficial stuff too--I''ve had moms judge me based on my looks (I''m overweight), and talk to my like I wasn''t good enough for their kid because THEY figured their kid would end up with the prom queen.

Her prejudices don''t matter. Your boyfriend loves you, his father is concerned with the happiness you two share--eventually I think his mom will wake up and realize what a b*tch she is being, when she sees everyone else happy for the two of you, while she''s all alone in the corner being grumpy for no good reason. Don''t take any money from her for your wedding. Don''t take any handouts that would make you have to be grateful to her. Keep your head high, go through with your plans, treat her son well, and I think she will come around. It sucks that she has to, but some people think they can judge someone by the way they look.

 

[oceanlove]

I know it''s not easy to deal with her now that she''s acted the way she has, but the important thing is that you and your SO love each other and he did not let his mother''s opinions interfere with your wedding plans. It kind of sounds likes she''s grasping for straws, given that she (falsely) said her husband didn''t approve; perhaps she''s just one of those mother who think no one''s good enough for her son. It''s great that your SO''s father at least is happy for you. I''ve heard of many instances in which the whole FAMILY was against someone''s FI--never pretty.

I would just go along with your plans, and (I know this doesn''t sound fun, and some may disagree, but this would be my own approach) kill her with kindness. I mean, don''t be over the top about it, but it makes it much harder to object without sounding crazy if you continue to be super-polite. This also might cause her to realize that you will be married with or without her approval, and hopefully she will stop acting this way. Also, I agree with gwendolyn--don''t take any money from her for the wedding; don''t give her any opportunities for something to hold over your head.

 

[choro72]

I think all you can do is continue being polite to your SO''s mom, and hope that she turns around. The important thing is, your SO seems to be standing up for you, and you two continue focusing on your lives together. If his mom gets nastier, maybe further down the road you can TRY to reason with her, but that''s only for you to be able to say "I''ve tried". As long as your SO is with you through this, I think you''ll be able to get through it.

 

[swingirl]

I think you SO''s mother may be embarrassed by your tattoos as they are quite prominent. You must realize people are going to judge you on choices that you have made.

It seems like you two aren''t ready to get engaged. Your SO should have already taken care of the issue with his mother if he is sure you are the one. If he told her "never be rude to my future wife again or we''ll move to another county" she''d behave herself. He hasn''t stood up for you.

 

[surfgirl]

May I ask the obvious question here? Why are you asking your BFs parents for a guest list for a wedding when you aren''t yet engaged? Perhaps that''s what is perplexing his parents? I know if I had a child who''s SO was asking me for a guest list to a wedding for which the engagement has yet to take place, I''d think that was more than weird.

 

[Sapphire_Cutie]

Date: 6/28/2008 6:43:46 PM
Author: surfgirl
May I ask the obvious question here? Why are you asking your BFs parents for a guest list for a wedding when you aren''t yet engaged? Perhaps that''s what is perplexing his parents? I know if I had a child who''s SO was asking me for a guest list to a wedding for which the engagement has yet to take place, I''d think that was more than weird.

surfgirl: I didnt ask SO''s mom for the list. my SO did, because altho we arent engaged yet, we will be soon and SO has told his mother that we were planning to etc. My SO wanted a list of people from his side of the family and is short on time due to work and house renevations. He wanted the list so that we can better figure out a budget and what we may be looking at people wise etc. I was just simply reminding him to get the list from his mom if she had done it already.

 

[surfgirl]

Date: 6/28/2008 9:15:14 PM
Author: Sapphire_Cutie

Date: 6/28/2008 6:43:46 PM

Author: surfgirl

May I ask the obvious question here? Why are you asking your BFs parents for a guest list for a wedding when you aren't yet engaged? Perhaps that's what is perplexing his parents? I know if I had a child who's SO was asking me for a guest list to a wedding for which the engagement has yet to take place, I'd think that was more than weird.

surfgirl: I didnt ask SO's mom for the list. my SO did, because altho we arent engaged yet, we will be soon and SO has told his mother that we were planning to etc. My SO wanted a list of people from his side of the family and is short on time due to work and house renevations. He wanted the list so that we can better figure out a budget and what we may be looking at people wise etc. I was just simply reminding him to get the list from his mom if she had done it already.

That may be, however, I think you need to stop and take a pause and think about what others might be wondering and see things from their perspective...I understand what you're saying. But honestly, seeing how many people your parents want to invite to a wedding isn't exactly the way to plan a wedding and set a budget, it's ass backwards if you'll pardon the expression...

If you and your SO will be paying for your wedding, then you need to figure out what YOU can afford, not how many people all sides are inviting. From your budget you will be able to determine how many people you can comfortably afford, depending on different wedding options.

Aside from that, I think you still need to understand that it's really irrelevant that you and your SO have talked and will be getting married. Until you're engaged, it's not really official and most people will look at it that way so if you want to better understand where your future in laws are coming from, I think you have no option but to think of how they see all of this and deal with it from that perspective. I'm just trying to get you to see that it looks a bit weird even to me and I have no stake in your potential marriage at all. But yeah, planning a wedding before an engagement has happened is unusual to say the least. If there will be a quick turn around time, then why hasn't your SO proposed already? I'm sure his parents are wondering things like this. I know I would be.

Also, may I ask how old you both are? I ask because it does have a bearing on how parents would look at their children planning a wedding after a year and a half. That's not much time at all if you're still young. If you're older perhaps it wouldn't be looked on as a quick courtship...All depends on your ages really...

ETA: Is there any way you can not italicize your posts? It's really difficult to read! Maybe it's my older eyes...Thanks!

 

[fieryred33143]

I don''t find it weird that someone would be planning a wedding without a ring on a finger. Being engaged is a promise to marry. If he has made the promise to marry, then it is absolutely appropriate that you plan a wedding. You may not have the shiny ring on your finger just yet, but that doesn''t mean that a wedding won''t happen or that you shouldn''t plan.

Besides, to each its own. I don''t think asking mom for a guest list is really the point of all of these posts. I think its mom''s disapproval of the whole entire thing.

For the OP, I think its time you sat and had a chat with mom. This woman will be in your life forever, you owe it to yourself to straighten things out. Sure, he should defend you, but you dont want to live a lifetime of hubby running to your rescue every time MIL thinks something about you. Sit down and ask her why she feels the way she does. She may have legitimate reason for concern OR it may just be one big miscommunication. You won''t know why until you speak up.

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

I am sorry, my FMIL has said only nasty things about me from the start. One of my favorites was when his parents gave us a puppy we didn''t want, was terrorizing our cats and we were in position to take care of, all without asking us. When my FI told her we gave the dog away, the conversation went something along the lines of:
FI: Mom, we had to get rid of him, he was irratating and destructive.
FMIL: Well your GF is too, but her parents kept her

All I can say is to distance yourself. My FI is collecting emails from family members so he can get adresses through them since his mother is being the same way. You just have to learn she is the problem, not you, and distance yourself when you can.

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 6/28/2008 10:13:10 PM
Author: brazen_irish_hussy
I am sorry, my FMIL has said only nasty things about me from the start. One of my favorites was when his parents gave us a puppy we didn''t want, was terrorizing our cats and we were in position to take care of, all without asking us. When my FI told her we gave the dog away, the conversation went something along the lines of:
FI: Mom, we had to get rid of him, he was irratating and destructive.
FMIL: Well your GF is too, but her parents kept her

All I can say is to distance yourself. My FI is collecting emails from family members so he can get adresses through them since his mother is being the same way. You just have to learn she is the problem, not you, and distance yourself when you can.

 

[roppongi]

Sapphire_Cutie - I am so sorry that your future MIL is behaving like a child. Like many of you I am married to a Saint who was brought into the world by Satan. I kid you not, I have stories that would make your head spin of how I have been tortured by this woman and her husband.

Two years ago I said, "enough-is-enough" and I haven''t spoken to MIL, FIL and Sister-in-Law since. I have filed a restraining order againstn MIL and FIL and my children are only able to visit supervised by my husband. It hasn''t been easy, but I am much better off without having these people in my life.

It helps to have an SO that is supportive and loving because your relationship will be tested time and again.

Brazen_Irish_Hussy - YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING???

 

[WishfulThinking]

Sapphire_Cutie- I am so sorry to hear that your FMIL is being so rude and inconsiderate of you and your relationship with your SO. I am not full of good advice like so many of the women on this board, and I think you''ve been given some good advice about how important it is that your SO is sticking up for you to his family, because it''s always helpful to be honest and keep a "united front" against anyone who is standing in your way. I just wanted to add myself to the list of people who are rooting for you and think it''s ridiculous how immature and judgmental she is being. You don''t deserve that!

By the way, I agree with other posters that the most important part, and really only part, of being "engaged" is the agreement and promise to be married. If you and your SO have made that promise to one another, there is no reason why people should regard you as being not engaged, unless for some reason you prefer not to refer to yourselves as such. It''s your call whatever you feel comfortable with, but if you are comfortable with the promise, everyone else needs to realize it''s not all about rainbows and butterflies and diamond rings and all that jazz.

 

[Tuckins1]

Sorry to hear about your situation, that makes things like holidays and birthdays very uncomfortable.

Shame on your in-laws for being so un-supportive of their son

I say "who cares?!?" Forget them... If you and your SO are happy then that is all that matters. BTW, I have tattoos also, and I understand how it feels to be looked at like some sort of weirdo, although mine are all butterflies and flowers (no naked ladies or anything like that!!) Just be proud of who you are and the decisions that you have made

 

[Anna0499]

Sapphire_Cutie - I agree with just having The Talk with your SO''s mother and finding out what exactly is her problem. It might do a world of good or it might make things worse but at least you would have made one last ditch effort before you get engaged or married. If things continue to be horrible I would distance myself from them completely...although I don''t think that would be very pleasant for your future husband. I know some people around here say that their SO/FI IS their family and should be #1 no matter what, and while I agree they should be #1, it''s not always that cut-and-dry and easy to forsaken your family. After all, family will always be family, regardless of what the marriage becomes (not referring in any bad terms to yours, of course). I also agree that you don''t want to put your SO in the middle because, and I speak from personal experience, it is a terrible place to be.

I know this isn''t totally the subject matter of our OP but I actually agree with surfgirl that most FILs would find it weird to be asked for a guest list when a wedding is not "on the books"; i.e. engagement has taken place and the budget should be determined before guest counts. I know the above posts say that an engagement is just a "promise to be married" but if that was the case then there wouldn''t be so many LIWs. If you think about it, most of the LIWs around here have had promises from their SOs that a marriage is in the future, but are still waiting for that proposal because until you actually get engaged it''s mostly just statements that remain to be proven. These boards are riddled with stories of guys who have promised/discussed marriage with their SOs, only to later recant. An actual engagement is a strong commitment to be married and lets everyone know that you are serious about planning and going through with a wedding.

Anyway, I hope you are able to work things out or at least achieve some level of mutual respect from your SO''s mother. Keep us posted.

 

[surfgirl]

I'm glad IndyGirl understood what I was trying to say. I'm a bit dismayed though that so many people are telling you to basically "screw the FMIL" already. While some of the posters on this thread may have had really bad in law experiences and relationships in their own lives, I hardly think that without even being engaged, and only having been together for less that 1.5 years, that the mature thing to do at this point is to "screw the FMIL" already. If you are adult and mature enough to get married then you should be adult and mature enough to sit down with SO's parents and talk about where the disconnect between you is.

And for the record, there are always two sides to every story and we only know your side. Why wouldn't you want to know exactly what your future in laws are thinking?

And as far as people here saying "as long you YOU know you're getting married that's as good as being engaged..." Sorry folks, but either you ARE engaged, or you are NOT. At this point SC is not engaged. If her SO wants to be engaged and get married, then why are they not engaged already? You also cannot ignore social conventions and say screw the in laws if they think it's bizarre to plan a wedding without any engagement. I also think it's bizarre to plan a wedding without an official engagement (and as IndyGirl rightly said, there are plenty of stories here about women who assumed they were getting married and started planning and getting their hopes up and it didn't happen). There are no real reasons to NOT be engaged unless one isn't really ready for that level of commitment (and thus, should not be planning a wedding). When people say "I'm not engaged because we cant afford it yet..." I always think that's a load of bunk. You dont need an expensive ring to be engaged. Hell, you dont even need a ring to be engaged. It's pretty simple, you either are or you are not. And I can totally see why SO's parents would find this situation odd. It's like you're rushing things when you're not really engaged. They see their son, going through the motions of acting like there is going to be a wedding, but where is the engagement??? If I was his parent, I'd start wondering why my son's GF was wanting a guest list for a wedding when my son has yet to propose to this woman. I'm not getting why this is so hard to comprehend.

ETA: I'm not saying any of this to be bitchy to you. I just really think the issue is staring you in the face but you're not seeing it. And unless you see it and deal with it, I dont see this issue resolving itself, and that would be sad.

 

[FrekeChild]

I feel for you SC and BIH. I don''t have a FMIL, but I have a FSIL that is very strong willed, waiting for her own engagement, and very protective of her little brother (she''s 13.5 years older). So I''m worried about her reaction to our engagement if it happens before her own. But I know that if she totally changed her feelings towards me (I am 99% sure she likes me) BF would back away from her. Anyway. That''s not the point of my post.

I have a friend K, who got married to T, because they got pregnant about 6 months into their off and on relationship. They got married about 8 months after their first date. K had not met T''s family except once before the wedding. First of all, K is one of the sweetest people I know. She is fiercely protective of her loved ones, and very family oriented. She is also white, very high upper middle class, and Christian. T is a momma''s boy, also family oriented, and 8 years older than K. He is half Hispanic half white, lower middle class and Catholic.

After the wedding everything seemed to be going fine, they had gotten married in a non-denominational ceremony in a church that neither of them belonged to (because of the short time frame) and were pretty happy. Minus the fact that K always felt that T put her after his immediate family. Well, then T''s mom decides that they needed to have their marriage blessed by the Catholic Church. K is not Catholic, she balks because she doesn''t see a reason for it, but T wants it-not because he wants it, but because his mother does. So he starts to put a huge amount of pressure on her. They started going to counseling. Finally K gives in, but at this point T''s brother has emailed K telling her: that he does not consider her or her daughter part of his family and that he never will because of her religion and the fact that she would not baptize the baby in the Catholic Church. K gave in to the blessing thing because T insisted that HE wanted it, and it had nothing to do with his mom. So K and T get their marriage blessed by the Catholic church-and T''s mom wants pictures taken of their "real" wedding day. K refuses.

That night, T gets a phone call from his mother that K is a: spoiled selfish pretentious little B, and she wishes that T had never met her or married her and to tell K that she can go F off, that K isn''t a part of her family. Instant fight between K and T. T defended his mom, K had to defend herself. The hardcore counseling started.

Finally, after months and months of these abusive phone calls from his mom, T stood up to her and told her, "Mom, this is MY FAMILY you''re talking Sh!z about. My wife and my daughter. Do not call me until you have accepted that and are ready to welcome them with open arms." And that was that.

Recently, she called T and apologized to him and to K, and asked them to go to dinner. Apparently it was very awkward but that for the first time, T''s parents were polite to K. K still refuses to speak to T''s brother, and I''m guessing it''s better for everyone that way. He still does not accept the baby as his niece or K as his sister in law. Things between K and T are much better, but they are still going to counseling-a year and 4 months after they got married.

Anyway, after a terribly long post (sorry about that) I just wanted to commiserate with you guys, and let you know that you aren''t the only ones out there. At the very least you know what you''re dealing with and getting into. K didn''t have a clue, and has paid the price. My opinion is that when you get married-they become your first priority and come first no matter what. You have to be a unit and defend each other against all outside forces.

I wish you luck SC. And to you as well BIH. And keep us informed as to how everything is going.

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 6/29/2008 2:05:24 PM
Author: surfgirl
I''m glad IndyGirl understood what I was trying to say. I''m a bit dismayed though that so many people are telling you to basically ''screw the FMIL'' already. While some of the posters on this thread may have had really bad in law experiences and relationships in their own lives, I hardly think that without even being engaged, and only having been together for less that 1.5 years, that the mature thing to do at this point is to ''screw the FMIL'' already. If you are adult and mature enough to get married then you should be adult and mature enough to sit down with SO''s parents and talk about where the disconnect between you is.

And for the record, there are always two sides to every story and we only know your side. Why wouldn''t you want to know exactly what your future in laws are thinking?

And as far as people here saying ''as long you YOU know you''re getting married that''s as good as being engaged...'' Sorry folks, but either you ARE engaged, or you are NOT. At this point SC is not engaged. If her SO wants to be engaged and get married, then why are they not engaged already? You also cannot ignore social conventions and say screw the in laws if they think it''s bizarre to plan a wedding without any engagement. I also think it''s bizarre to plan a wedding without an official engagement (and as IndyGirl rightly said, there are plenty of stories here about women who assumed they were getting married and started planning and getting their hopes up and it didn''t happen). There are no real reasons to NOT be engaged unless one isn''t really ready for that level of commitment (and thus, should not be planning a wedding). When people say ''I''m not engaged because we cant afford it yet...'' I always think that''s a load of bunk. You dont need an expensive ring to be engaged. Hell, you dont even need a ring to be engaged. It''s pretty simple, you either are or you are not. And I can totally see why SO''s parents would find this situation odd. It''s like you''re rushing things when you''re not really engaged. They see their son, going through the motions of acting like there is going to be a wedding, but where is the engagement??? If I was his parent, I''d start wondering why my son''s GF was wanting a guest list for a wedding when my son has yet to propose to this woman. I''m not getting why this is so hard to comprehend.

ETA: I''m not saying any of this to be bitchy to you. I just really think the issue is staring you in the face but you''re not seeing it. And unless you see it and deal with it, I dont see this issue resolving itself, and that would be sad.

I agree with the highlighted part. I still don''t think that being engaged is only when you get a ring. If you have a date set, then you are engaged in my book.

But I also don''t think the answer is "screw the family." Family is very important to me and I made sure that when I found someone to marry, that he has a very healthy/loving relationship with his family and that they accepted me into theirs. One of the worst things, in my opinion, is to marry someone and have that person say "we can''t visit your family for the holidays anymore because I don''t like them and/or they don''t like me." I would be devestated. And the way I see it is this: she has been in his life since the day he was born, she''s his mother, and no woman in the world could ever take that place in his heart. If you don''t want to repair the relationship for yourself or for her, then do it for him.

 

[Sapphire_Cutie]

Date: 6/29/2008 2:05:24 PM
Author: surfgirl
I'm glad IndyGirl understood what I was trying to say. I'm a bit dismayed though that so many people are telling you to basically 'screw the FMIL' already. While some of the posters on this thread may have had really bad in law experiences and relationships in their own lives, I hardly think that without even being engaged, and only having been together for less that 1.5 years, that the mature thing to do at this point is to 'screw the FMIL' already. If you are adult and mature enough to get married then you should be adult and mature enough to sit down with SO's parents and talk about where the disconnect between you is.

And for the record, there are always two sides to every story and we only know your side. Why wouldn't you want to know exactly what your future in laws are thinking?

And as far as people here saying 'as long you YOU know you're getting married that's as good as being engaged...' Sorry folks, but either you ARE engaged, or you are NOT. At this point SC is not engaged. If her SO wants to be engaged and get married, then why are they not engaged already? You also cannot ignore social conventions and say screw the in laws if they think it's bizarre to plan a wedding without any engagement. I also think it's bizarre to plan a wedding without an official engagement (and as IndyGirl rightly said, there are plenty of stories here about women who assumed they were getting married and started planning and getting their hopes up and it didn't happen). There are no real reasons to NOT be engaged unless one isn't really ready for that level of commitment (and thus, should not be planning a wedding). When people say 'I'm not engaged because we cant afford it yet...' I always think that's a load of bunk. You dont need an expensive ring to be engaged. Hell, you dont even need a ring to be engaged. It's pretty simple, you either are or you are not. And I can totally see why SO's parents would find this situation odd. It's like you're rushing things when you're not really engaged. They see their son, going through the motions of acting like there is going to be a wedding, but where is the engagement??? If I was his parent, I'd start wondering why my son's GF was wanting a guest list for a wedding when my son has yet to propose to this woman. I'm not getting why this is so hard to comprehend.

ETA: I'm not saying any of this to be bitchy to you. I just really think the issue is staring you in the face but you're not seeing it. And unless you see it and deal with it, I dont see this issue resolving itself, and that would be sad.

surfgirl: 1st off I have never once said that I would no longer interact with So's mother NOR have I said that I would be mean twords her or anything like that. I have been NOTHING but nice to that woman. And even though all of this JUST took place yesterday...I have already spoke with So and decided that I was going to speak with my FMIL and try to sort all this out. 2nd off please dont ASSUME that you know what my SO's parents are thinking when you have no idea. And although my SO's mother SAID that she AND her husband wanted us to wait... SHE LIED! My SO spoke with his father and he said NOTHING about it! FMIL was trying to be manipulative. SO's dad loves me and just wants us to be happy! You are just taking what YOU personally see as odd or a wierd thing and making THAT the problem here and its not...and 3rd... my SO BOUGHT a ring for me thank you very much and I am just waiting on the proposal which is up to HIM to do WHEN HE WANTS... and 4th everyone does things differantly and again your assuming things. Like the whole budget thing. There are certain people on his side of the family that would have to be invited etc. And certain things that SO wants for our wedding. So since there must be such things he needs the list of family members so that we can figure out what all this is going to run us so that we could look at our finances and decided WEITHER we could afford to have the wedding this upcomming year OR next year. Soooo we are NOT doing it ass backward and EVEN if YOU think we are...well no offense but that wasnt what this post was about. And not everything has to be done Surfgirls way or anyone elses way besides ours. And lastly it is HARDLY uncommon for people whom have been dating around a yr and a half to get engaged. And although weve only been dating for said time...I have know my SO all through school. And again... my age, my dating time and how I choose to plan MY wedding was NOT what this post was about.

 

[Sapphire_Cutie]

Date: 6/29/2008 4:43:07 PM
Author: fieryred33143

Date: 6/29/2008 2:05:24 PM
Author: surfgirl
I''m glad IndyGirl understood what I was trying to say. I''m a bit dismayed though that so many people are telling you to basically ''screw the FMIL'' already. While some of the posters on this thread may have had really bad in law experiences and relationships in their own lives, I hardly think that without even being engaged, and only having been together for less that 1.5 years, that the mature thing to do at this point is to ''screw the FMIL'' already. If you are adult and mature enough to get married then you should be adult and mature enough to sit down with SO''s parents and talk about where the disconnect between you is.

And for the record, there are always two sides to every story and we only know your side. Why wouldn''t you want to know exactly what your future in laws are thinking?

And as far as people here saying ''as long you YOU know you''re getting married that''s as good as being engaged...'' Sorry folks, but either you ARE engaged, or you are NOT. At this point SC is not engaged. If her SO wants to be engaged and get married, then why are they not engaged already? You also cannot ignore social conventions and say screw the in laws if they think it''s bizarre to plan a wedding without any engagement. I also think it''s bizarre to plan a wedding without an official engagement (and as IndyGirl rightly said, there are plenty of stories here about women who assumed they were getting married and started planning and getting their hopes up and it didn''t happen). There are no real reasons to NOT be engaged unless one isn''t really ready for that level of commitment (and thus, should not be planning a wedding). When people say ''I''m not engaged because we cant afford it yet...'' I always think that''s a load of bunk. You dont need an expensive ring to be engaged. Hell, you dont even need a ring to be engaged. It''s pretty simple, you either are or you are not. And I can totally see why SO''s parents would find this situation odd. It''s like you''re rushing things when you''re not really engaged. They see their son, going through the motions of acting like there is going to be a wedding, but where is the engagement??? If I was his parent, I''d start wondering why my son''s GF was wanting a guest list for a wedding when my son has yet to propose to this woman. I''m not getting why this is so hard to comprehend.

ETA: I''m not saying any of this to be bitchy to you. I just really think the issue is staring you in the face but you''re not seeing it. And unless you see it and deal with it, I dont see this issue resolving itself, and that would be sad.

I agree with the highlighted part. I still don''t think that being engaged is only when you get a ring. If you have a date set, then you are engaged in my book.

But I also don''t think the answer is ''screw the family.'' Family is very important to me and I made sure that when I found someone to marry, that he has a very healthy/loving relationship with his family and that they accepted me into theirs. One of the worst things, in my opinion, is to marry someone and have that person say ''we can''t visit your family for the holidays anymore because I don''t like them and/or they don''t like me.'' I would be devestated. And the way I see it is this: she has been in his life since the day he was born, she''s his mother, and no woman in the world could ever take that place in his heart. If you don''t want to repair the relationship for yourself or for her, then do it for him.

Fieryred: I agree with that also and i never said that I wasnt willing to talk to her about it or that I would be mean or not go to family functions etc. I have already decided that I was going to sit down with her and talk.

 

[jmtomaui]

Whoa... This is a little sharp when Surfgirl was simply stating an opinion. We are all entitled to have one. And you asked for people''s opinions.

I am simply a lurker who loves looking at everyone''s rings so what I have to say should mean nothing to you but I want to say it anyway. If this is how you ever react toward or even in front of FMIL - either in the past or the future - I can see why she would be concerned about the 2 of you marrying. You flipped out toward your SO regarding his mother and now Surfgirl so while I may be wrong, you appear to have quite a temper.

I do sincerely wish you all the best in your life. Your marriage and your future kids should be open to welcoming SO''s entire family even w/ their warts. I hope you can do so.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 6/29/2008 4:45:11 PM
Author: Sapphire_Cutie
surfgirl: 1st off I have never once said that I would no longer interact with So''s mother NOR have I said that I would be mean twords her or anything like that. I have been NOTHING but nice to that woman. And even though all of this JUST took place yesterday...I have already spoke with So and decided that I was going to speak with my FMIL and try to sort all this out. 2nd off please dont ASSUME that you know what my SO''s parents are thinking when you have no idea. And although my SO''s mother SAID that she AND her husband wanted us to wait... SHE LIED! My SO spoke with his father and he said NOTHING about it! FMIL was trying to be manipulative. SO''s dad loves me and just wants us to be happy! You are just taking what YOU personally see as odd or a wierd thing and making THAT the problem here and its not...and 3rd... my SO BOUGHT a ring for me thank you very much and I am just waiting on the proposal which is up to HIM to do WHEN HE WANTS... and 4th everyone does things differantly and again your assuming things. Like the whole budget thing. There are certain people on his side of the family that would have to be invited etc. And certain things that SO wants for our wedding. So since there must be such things he needs the list of family members so that we can figure out what all this is going to run us so that we could look at our finances and decided WEITHER we could afford to have the wedding this upcomming year OR next year. Soooo we are NOT doing it ass backward and EVEN if YOU think we are...well no offense but that wasnt what this post was about. And not everything has to be done Surfgirls way or anyone elses way besides ours. And lastly it is HARDLY uncommon for people whom have been dating around a yr and a half to get engaged. And although weve only been dating for said time...I have know my SO all through school. And again... my age, my dating time and how I choose to plan MY wedding was NOT what this post was about.

That is rather a rude and agressive post - and quite uncalled for.

SG made it quite clear that she was merely ''suggesting'' what your SO''s mother may be thinking and why.

I would also find it very odd if my son''s gf wanted lists of guests before they had announced an official engagement.

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 6/29/2008 4:56:39 PM
Author: jmtomaui
Whoa... This is a little sharp when Surfgirl was simply stating an opinion. We are all entitled to have one. And you asked for people''s opinions.

I am simply a lurker who loves looking at everyone''s rings so what I have to say should mean nothing to you but I want to say it anyway. If this is how you ever react toward or even in front of FMIL - either in the past or the future - I can see why she would be concerned about the 2 of you marrying. You flipped out toward your SO regarding his mother and now Surfgirl so while I may be wrong, you appear to have quite a temper.

I do sincerely wish you all the best in your life. Your marriage and your future kids should be open to welcoming SO''s entire family even w/ their warts. I hope you can do so.

I don''t think its fair to say that she has a temper based on what she is writing here. When I read surfgirl''s comments, I thought it was harsh as well. The way people take things depends on how they are reading it.

I don''t think she''s flipping out here. She was basically attacked (verbally and in secret) by her MIL and then she comes here for some advice (not opinions) and in her mind is getting attacked again. Anyone would jump on the opportunity to defend themselves.

I think everyone has good points on here and it sounds like Sapphire is taking those points into consideration.

 

[emeraldlover1]

Date: 6/29/2008 2:05:24 PM
Author: surfgirl
I''m glad IndyGirl understood what I was trying to say. I''m a bit dismayed though that so many people are telling you to basically ''screw the FMIL'' already. While some of the posters on this thread may have had really bad in law experiences and relationships in their own lives, I hardly think that without even being engaged, and only having been together for less that 1.5 years, that the mature thing to do at this point is to ''screw the FMIL'' already. If you are adult and mature enough to get married then you should be adult and mature enough to sit down with SO''s parents and talk about where the disconnect between you is.

And for the record, there are always two sides to every story and we only know your side. Why wouldn''t you want to know exactly what your future in laws are thinking?

And as far as people here saying ''as long you YOU know you''re getting married that''s as good as being engaged...'' Sorry folks, but either you ARE engaged, or you are NOT. At this point SC is not engaged. If her SO wants to be engaged and get married, then why are they not engaged already? You also cannot ignore social conventions and say screw the in laws if they think it''s bizarre to plan a wedding without any engagement. I also think it''s bizarre to plan a wedding without an official engagement (and as IndyGirl rightly said, there are plenty of stories here about women who assumed they were getting married and started planning and getting their hopes up and it didn''t happen). There are no real reasons to NOT be engaged unless one isn''t really ready for that level of commitment (and thus, should not be planning a wedding). When people say ''I''m not engaged because we cant afford it yet...'' I always think that''s a load of bunk. You dont need an expensive ring to be engaged. Hell, you dont even need a ring to be engaged. It''s pretty simple, you either are or you are not. And I can totally see why SO''s parents would find this situation odd. It''s like you''re rushing things when you''re not really engaged. They see their son, going through the motions of acting like there is going to be a wedding, but where is the engagement??? If I was his parent, I''d start wondering why my son''s GF was wanting a guest list for a wedding when my son has yet to propose to this woman. I''m not getting why this is so hard to comprehend.

ETA: I''m not saying any of this to be bitchy to you. I just really think the issue is staring you in the face but you''re not seeing it. And unless you see it and deal with it, I dont see this issue resolving itself, and that would be sad.

I''m sorry, I understand that this is your opinion but I totally disagree with the statements you''ve made above and this is not at all what the OP was asking for advice on.

MY SO and I have purchased our ring and are waiting for the setting to be completed until we get engaged. It is very important to him that he plan the proposal and make it special. That is fine with me however the ring process took significantly longer than we had originally expected which has impacted our planning process. We are planning a September 09 wedding on the east coast and places book up really fast. We are currently looking at sites and we aren''t offically engaged. Both SO and I have asked for aproximate counts of how many people we think our familys would want to invited because our budget could span an extra 20K if we needed to. We''ve looked at a lot of places and some that cost the same amount have different amounts of people they can accomidate. Why shouldn''t we have an idea of how many people is our max so that we don''t book a place that can''t accomidate?

Just so that I understand, are you saying that because my boyfriend wants to propose with the ring when it arrives in a few weeks that he''s not ready for commitment yet? Do you think that will magically change once the ring is in hand? I''m hoping that you think these questions are rediculous because frankly there are many variations in levels of commitment and one can be engaged to marry and also decide not to go through with the wedding. Yes, you don''t need a ring to be engaged but my SO wants me to be able to show my ring when I say I''m engaged and if thats important to him I''m ok with not being engaged for a few more weeks while still planning a wedding. We picked out our ring together, talked to the parents, looked at places...well that must make me bizzare and ass backwards because I''m not following the planning process the way you think it should happen.

The point is, the OP didn''t ask for your opinion on this and I don''t think its fair that you are trying to convince her that her boyfriend is not ready for marriage. She didn''t give us enough background on this for it to warrent the rudeness expressed in your posts. The best advice that you gave is for her to sit down with FMIL and talk to her.

I''m sick of people attacking LIW''s to the point where they have to come back in here and defend their relationship when it wasn''t the issue in question.

 

[emeraldlover1]

Date: 6/29/2008 5:02:21 PM
Author: Pandora II

Date: 6/29/2008 4:45:11 PM
Author: Sapphire_Cutie
surfgirl: 1st off I have never once said that I would no longer interact with So''s mother NOR have I said that I would be mean twords her or anything like that. I have been NOTHING but nice to that woman. And even though all of this JUST took place yesterday...I have already spoke with So and decided that I was going to speak with my FMIL and try to sort all this out. 2nd off please dont ASSUME that you know what my SO''s parents are thinking when you have no idea. And although my SO''s mother SAID that she AND her husband wanted us to wait... SHE LIED! My SO spoke with his father and he said NOTHING about it! FMIL was trying to be manipulative. SO''s dad loves me and just wants us to be happy! You are just taking what YOU personally see as odd or a wierd thing and making THAT the problem here and its not...and 3rd... my SO BOUGHT a ring for me thank you very much and I am just waiting on the proposal which is up to HIM to do WHEN HE WANTS... and 4th everyone does things differantly and again your assuming things. Like the whole budget thing. There are certain people on his side of the family that would have to be invited etc. And certain things that SO wants for our wedding. So since there must be such things he needs the list of family members so that we can figure out what all this is going to run us so that we could look at our finances and decided WEITHER we could afford to have the wedding this upcomming year OR next year. Soooo we are NOT doing it ass backward and EVEN if YOU think we are...well no offense but that wasnt what this post was about. And not everything has to be done Surfgirls way or anyone elses way besides ours. And lastly it is HARDLY uncommon for people whom have been dating around a yr and a half to get engaged. And although weve only been dating for said time...I have know my SO all through school. And again... my age, my dating time and how I choose to plan MY wedding was NOT what this post was about.

That is rather a rude and agressive post - and quite uncalled for.

SG made it quite clear that she was merely ''suggesting'' what your SO''s mother may be thinking and why.

I would also find it very odd if my son''s gf wanted lists of guests before they had announced an official engagement.

Really? I frankly found SG''s posts to be quite rude and agressive and I assumed the above post was in response to that.

 

[galeteia]

Date: 6/29/2008 5:03:11 PM
Author: fieryred33143

Date: 6/29/2008 4:56:39 PM

Author: jmtomaui

Whoa... This is a little sharp when Surfgirl was simply stating an opinion. We are all entitled to have one. And you asked for people's opinions.


I am simply a lurker who loves looking at everyone's rings so what I have to say should mean nothing to you but I want to say it anyway. If this is how you ever react toward or even in front of FMIL - either in the past or the future - I can see why she would be concerned about the 2 of you marrying. You flipped out toward your SO regarding his mother and now Surfgirl so while I may be wrong, you appear to have quite a temper.


I do sincerely wish you all the best in your life. Your marriage and your future kids should be open to welcoming SO's entire family even w/ their warts. I hope you can do so.

I don't think its fair to say that she has a temper based on what she is writing here. When I read surfgirl's comments, I thought it was harsh as well. The way people take things depends on how they are reading it.


I don't think she's flipping out here. She was basically attacked (verbally and in secret) by her MIL and then she comes here for some advice (not opinions) and in her mind is getting attacked again. Anyone would jump on the opportunity to defend themselves.


I think everyone has good points on here and it sounds like Sapphire is taking those points into consideration.

I find Surfgirl's posts are often harsh, and people have remarked as much before.

My advice to the OP is to take the tone of any internet post with a grain of salt. It can be hard to see past an aggressive tone to the advice in the post, so I urge you to remember that people are not going to view the situation coloured with the extreme emotional distress you are experiencing over it. Thus, they may be unsympathetic and dispassionate about something that hurts you deeply, and post in hurtful ways sans any sympathy, especially if they feel that other posters have already taken care of the sympathy front. This is a general observation and not focused on Surfgirl. Even though it's ridiculously easy to get offended on the internet, try not to take it personally, and remember that people like to play devil's advocate on here and don't mean to come across as attacking you, even though it can feel like that.

Back on topic, a nasty FMIL can be devastating. My FMIL and I don't see eye to eye either, but we're both warm-hearted people who make a tremendous effort and who are fond of one another, even if we occasionally feel as though the other is from a different planet.

Having a FMIL who is actively sabotaging you would be a nightmare, and I'm sorry that you're going through this.

Edit:

Date: 6/29/2008 5:24:33 PM
Author: emeraldlover1

Really? I frankly found SG's posts to be quite rude and agressive and I assumed the above post was in response to that.

Hear, hear, on everything you said, in both posts. You posted while I was typing.

Especially this: "I'm sick of people attacking LIW's to the point where they have to come back in here and defend their relationship when it wasn't the issue in question."

Damn straight. I don't assume I know the full picture enough to make conclusive statements about someone's relationship based on a post on Teh Internets. Sure, I'll give my opinion but is making an attempt to be polite while giving bad news so difficult?

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 6/29/2008 2:05:24 PM
Author: surfgirl
There are no real reasons to NOT be engaged unless one isn''t really ready for that level of commitment (and thus, should not be planning a wedding). When people say ''I''m not engaged because we cant afford it yet...'' I always think that''s a load of bunk. You dont need an expensive ring to be engaged. Hell, you dont even need a ring to be engaged.

You know, the above part kind of bothered me. Financial reasons are not a load of bunk in a lot of situations. I understand that it''s your opinion, but when two people who are planning on getting married make about $20k a year, and only get by because they don''t have to pay rent, insurance and some utilities, yet have saved up enough for a ring (mostly because it isn''t expensive in the first place)-I don''t think that "financial reasons" are "bunk".

Sure, we could go and get engaged, but what''s the point of getting engaged when we''re both still in school, can''t work full time, and certainly can''t save any money for a wedding, or pay for all our bills on our own?

And what about not wanting to go into marriage in debt?

I don''t want to be engaged until one of us can bring in enough money to pay for ALL of our own stuff. I don''t want to get engaged while I''m still depending on my parents to pay for my car/health insurance, utility bills, even though I KNOW they wouldn''t mind. Even if we just get married at city hall, and there isn''t a huge wedding to pay for. I don''t see a reason to get engaged while both of us are otherwise preoccupied with school and trying to graduate or working on a dissertation.

Is that really a load of bunk? Is that really unreasonable?

 

[Sapphire_Cutie]

style="WIDTH: 99.24%; HEIGHT: 203px">Date: 6/29/2008 4:56:39 PM
Author: jmtomaui
Whoa... This is a little sharp when Surfgirl was simply stating an opinion. We are all entitled to have one. And you asked for people''s opinions.

I am simply a lurker who loves looking at everyone''s rings so what I have to say should mean nothing to you but I want to say it anyway. If this is how you ever react toward or even in front of FMIL - either in the past or the future - I can see why she would be concerned about the 2 of you marrying. You flipped out toward your SO regarding his mother and now Surfgirl so while I may be wrong, you appear to have quite a temper.

I do sincerely wish you all the best in your life. Your marriage and your future kids should be open to welcoming SO''s entire family even w/ their warts. I hope you can do so.

jmtomaui: Just correcting what you said in the above post. For the record i did NOT flipp out at all on my SO reguarding his mother. And yes...you are correct.. everyone is entitled to their own opinions. But for one surfgirl isnt understanding that I was not the one to ask SO''s mom for the list. That was SO that asked for it. SO then if someone has a problem with a list being asked BEFORE an ''official'' engagement, then please take that up with my SO lol cuz that was him and not me. And to state their opinion that that MAY be why SO''s mom doesnt think that we should marry now...thats fine. But in further posts it is still talked about LIKE that IS the reason. But in reality thats the reason why surfgirl would be upset etc. and she finds it wierd. but thats not what this post was about. Nor did I ask for opinions on WHY SO''s mom acted this way or may have. It was a vent because I was upset. I never flipped out on SO nor SO''s mom. And I have already decided as of last nite to speak with SO''s mom DIRECTLY and not put SO in the middle cuz this is between us at this point. And I will be marrying into this family and don''t want any problems with her. And even at 1st when she was mean to my face... I was NEVER rude to her. I have been nothing but polite to the woman. Actually started to like her for a while.