I decided, I give up!

[ilovesparkles]

I don''t have a lot of time so this may be all jumbled and not make sense - SORRY!

I have had a few problems with my BF as many have noticed on here, and a lot of them boiled down to poor communication. First of all I would like to say that "testing" him was not necessarily a bad or evil thing. I wouldn''t even think o it that way but more of a way to see if you shut up if he would reciprocate what you put into the relationship. I actually think it can be useful if done apprpriately which I think it sounds like you have done. My BF and I are long distance - 1660+ miles- and communication is obviously huge. It is hard to bring up but what we both have learned is that this relationship is worth it to us to work through the difficulties. We continually try to meet half way on this issue and is difficult and frustrating at times but doable. We have BOTH changed our communication habits, I try not to demand as much and he tries to give more. So far it has been very helpful and the amount of drama for the both opf us has practically disappeared!

He hates talking about his feelings and things that are getting him down because he just isn''t that type of guy. He shuts down when things are going wrong and I wanna do nothing but talk for the next 12 hours straight. It is a problem. The other problem we have is that he doesn''t care to talk about how his day went, how was work, what did he make for dinner, how did he sleep. He feels like it is meaningless conversation and a waste of time. If we spend time on the phone it should be about "deep" and "profound" things. What???? I told him hearing about his day is a quality convo to me because I care about him and I care about the mundane things in his life. He said "oh wow" and puts up with it and asks about me too now.

A couple of suggestions for you. I was told to pick up the book He''s Just Not That Into You. I have not yet but have heard nothing but rave reviews! Second, I have this silly game called the Ungame which you can find just about anyu game store or online vendor. It was made by a woman that lost the ability to talk from an accident. Her and her family began writing questions down to talk about and she made a game out of it. When BF and I come to a difficult point in our nightly phone call I pull out a card and we discuss it. It helps a lot even tho it is incredibly cheesy! Well I have to run so I hope some of that helped! I can really understand where you are coming from and hope you the best in everything! (and will of course check back in when I am home from dinner!)

Amanda

 

[Patchee]

Thank you gals, everyone.. Angela ... thank you so much. You hit home in many aspects of your post. We got home last night and went for a bike ride, I think I really needed that... It made me feel better... "testing" is over.. haha! I know that was wrong to do instead of just talking to him which I should have done in the first place.. I just get nervous or something when it comes to conversation on this stuff.. well, mostly, future.

I guess I get that way because in that little space in the waaaaaaaaaaaaay back of my mind I feel he does not want marriage, his age for me, has lots to do with it. He is scucceful, has a home, has money.. but I think he likes what would be considered "his" and have the girl on the side.. (lack of better words). I am afraid to hear the results of another future conversation.. I am afraid it will follow my gut.. why didn''t he just tell me to begin with? Grr.. I remember now when I did initiate the talk he gave ME answers to his questions but HE DID NOT question me.. I think on that now.. I am the cow that will never be bought... To me it''s got to sound silly when he says to someone .. "Yeah I have a girlfirend.. he is 36!! I could understand being 36 and married before, or was stuck in the space ship and could get to earth to marry but 36 is almost 40 and I always think of people who are that old with no binding commitment at one time or another just never wanted that to begin with....

I know I am only 28 .. but I look at it this way.. another 5 years I will be 33 and it is harder to find that love as it is at 28... I go into a bar now and do you think these kids look at me ??? This is a screwed up point I am making but I just feel like I am hitting the prime of my life. Again, no he wants NO kids.. my grandma said to me the other day... I don''t know what I would do without you (my mom, her daughter died young) ... so, gram said I know you don;t want kids but you may want to consider it for companship when your older. She said you might not be ready now but you may one day.. this hurt and hit home again.. he is adimit on no kids for reasons of commitment to them, me I am just selfish in my life (I have a bunch of horses that take up my life) and don''t have the time to give a child.. such different reasons for the two of us~

I feel I am not ready to move on without him.. I could as I am just as independant as he is and I am strong on my feelings or what''s right and not so right ... but I don''t want to leave and think ... I left all because I wanted to marry this guy.. just don''t want to regret anything...

I am rambling like whoa now! Wren, thanks for your words.. It will get some takin used to with your new shhhhhhhh name! ]

I feel like I should print out this thread and show it to him! Grr. I have to work now, chat more soon... as I am never finished blabbing!

 

[nytemist]

Patchee, I really hope you can pull through this tough time. It''s true- relationships are work, but they shouldn''t be THAT much work.

If you ever saw any of my posts last year, I was insanely frustrated with my BF- about the lack of him talking, about him not taking conversations about our future seriously (I thought) or wanting the conversation at all. I was crazy and thought many times of ending it. I gave it one last chance by putting all my cards out, stating what I would like, where I wanted my life to go and all that. It was up to him what he did with the info and if he wanted to be in my life he had to step up.

Even now, some days I can ask him a question, sitting right in front of him, but he will just shrug. Yes, he will actually give me an answer 20 mins later after I''ve already given up on getting a response. Sometimes he gets testy with me when I don''t ask him how he feels or something and I tell him "well, usually when I do, you don''t answer or get a shrug, an ''I don''t know'' or an ''I don''t care''."

The past few months, I''ve come up with a new rule- if I asked him something, he can''t tell me ''I don''t know'' or I don''t care''. He has to answer me. If he needs some time to think, fine, but he no longer just brush off the question. Trust me, he doesn''t enjoy how much that irritates me.

 

[ilovesparkles]

Hey there, I just wanted to check in and see how things were going for you and your guy? Been thinking bout you two! Give us any updates if there are some and hang in there!

 

[Mara]

the other gals have made excellent points, i just wanted to chime in and say that its' easy to be like 'oh the good old days' when we used to do XYZ or it was so easy or this or that. but don't get caught in that trap. relationships change just like anything else in life, and so you have to focus on what things are like NOW, now what they were like when you were first dating. do you see negative personality traits that he is showing now? they only irritate you more later! i guess what i am trying to say is that if it is this much work for you now, it will not get EASIER as time goes on unless something huge changes and that typically doesn't happen with alot more work. i didn't read all the posts but i agree with what you said about being 28 now...when i was 28 i had been with my now-husband for almost 2 years and we had been through some ups and downs but we had come out stronger than ever and i knew that he was the one for me. i told him he had 6 months to figure out if i was the one for him. he didn't have to propose, but i just wanted to know for sure that this was going somewhere leading to marriage. i didn't pressure him nor did we talk about it again, but he knew i was serious. i also told him look i don't want to be 30 and with you for 4 years and still waiting for you to figure it out. we had both been in relationships before where we were with the people for 3-5 years and kind of knowing that things weren't good or going anywhere great etc and just hanging out in the relationship hoping for a change. doesn't work that way IMO. i feel like you really know within 2 years if someone could be the one for you. another 2 years shouldn't make or break you if it's really meant to be. i say this because both greg and i had talked about our previous relationships and admitted that within 2 years we really knew in our hearts those others were not the ones for us, but we kept thinking back to the first days or the fun days and hoping things would change. we also knew that the people we were with were great, so why couldn't we love them again? but we just stayed hoping inside.

so anyway long story short by month 5 we were looking at rings and engaged around the 7th month i think...anyway that was fine with me, it was never about getting a ring by month 6, i just wanted to hear him say yes you are the one i want to spend my life with, now let's plan for the future together!

so anyway...bottom line is you need to figure out for yourself what is right, what is appropriate, what you feel you deserve. i don't really believe in the big repeated conversations about marriage and this or that. we only had the one conversation and that was it, i was like look you need to know and figure it out for yourself, i am not going to try to convince you that life with me will be fabulous or i'm perfect, you know me well enough to know what the drill is and vice versa. anyway, good luck but i think that alot of this is about you and what your deadlines are mentally and what you feel like YOU need. lay it out for him and let him figure it out for himself.

 

[meepcat]

Hi Ladies,

I have a lot to say on this subject, but I''ll try to keep my thoughts condensed to something worthwhile reading.

In 2001, I was engaged to a man 16 years older than me. I was 24, at the time, and he was 40. He had a 5-story house, a very successful career, had a specific way of being, and was reticent to emotional, physical, and environmental changes. I was starting to blossom in my discovery of the world, and when I wanted to live abroad for my career, he was obstinate, and believed that I wasn''t accepting the path that he believed we should be on (marriage, kids, etc.). I broke up with him a year after our engagement (and left behind a 2.25 Tiffany Lucida ring), realizing that we were great as friends, but an unfortunate mismatch.

Now, 5 years later, I''m with a wonderful man, and we''re going down the path towards engagement (just found a diamond this week!). But the time when I''ll be getting this ring isn''t determined, and I''m working hard every day to keep from going crazy. Now, about the communication issues..

I have these points of advice to offer:

1. Ask the hardest questions of yourself. The things you fear and worry about every day, both short and long-term. Find the most honest, earnest answers you can, and seek the truth in why you think the way you do.

2. Think about the things you''ve wanted to say to your bf, and just ask him. You don''t know what he''ll think, but if you can''t ask him, that''s a sign of YOUR inability to confront his image of you, with your image of him.

3. Find out what you want in yourself, and then in a mate. He should be your best friend, the person you can talk to about anything in the world. If he isn''t, and you expect something from him, then tell him what you expect, and see if he has expectations of you, too. You might find out that he''s contented, and you two aren''t the match you thought you were.

I''m also 29, and my boyfriend is 37. I''ve had 3 relationships that were 2-4 years in length. I lived in two other countries while trying to sustain one of them (doing the long-distance thing for year). After the last relationship (which about killed me), I decided I would ask all the hardest questions first, figure ou what made me happy even while seeking a better-matched mate, and limiting my expectations while retaining my high standards.

If you ever want to know what all those questions were, send me an email. I have a list of standards that I sent to my boyfriend before we even became friends (we met online).

I hope this helps..

 

[InLuvWithMrH]

Well put Meep. You made a great point about the inability to discuss anything with a potential life-long mate. I also believe that, and think that your greatest growth comes from confronting the questions/answers which are the hardest to hear. How's it going Patchee?

 

[Patchee]

Meetcap, I would love a list of your thoughts! I tried to email you a private message but I don''t know how.

Well Ladies, Patchee is doing quite well this week! I read and thought, and read and thought some more about the posts here. Then I sat back and looked real hard at our relationship. He is my best friend. So I need to be able to blow out any feelings I have to him, as him to me. I have always = since little been that way - meaning, closed up to emotions that could make or break me. I always had a "realationship guard" up towards men... they never knew this, but I did and still do know this. I open up about many things with T but the things that are life changers I am closed up about. I was in some other younger days long term relationships then I was single for a very long time because I would hold my standards up to high in men. But T was the one from a long time ago, I said.. I won''t let that guard down... unless T comes back into my life (look at how you met your S/O post to find out how we met if curious)... so, my "walls" are down now... and now it is getting tougher the more I love him, the more I give him my heart for me to bust out my feelings to him, I feel he is not helping matters but honestly - maybe it is not him with the issues, could very well me me.

I get quiet when I am thinking things I would want to tell him, just never feel like the timing is right or the day is the correct day.. sad, I know - but true. I decided, I want to marry this guy... we all have our quirks, his are non issues! We are going away to his other house in the country this weekend... Since we have no obligations there but fun and relaxation I will have a lenghtly conversation with him then. I will have his undivided attention because ESPN doesn''t come in that well in the sticks

but seriously.. haha I will. I will let everyone know how that turns out and I will finally have the answers I want whether it is a binding commitment he wants or not. I am not even nervous as I thought I would be to be coming up on approaching this. I have the right to know where this thing is going....

Thanks for thinking about me ladies! Your the best! And needed more then you''ll probably ever know!

 

[Blenheim]

Patchee, here''s a list of Meepcat''s standards and questions.

I''m glad to hear that you''re feeling better this week. I hope that you and your boyfriend have a good conversation this weekend and that you get your questions answered.

 

[Angela1977]

Patchee, I''m so glad to hear that all is better with you. I''ve been thinking about you, but somehow this post got pushed down, and when I''d log on, I wouldn''t find it because I''d get sidetracked...Sorry.

Please let us know how the convo in the country went over the weekend...I''m going to keep bumping this up until you repsond!

 

[meepcat]

Hi Patchee,

Glad to read you''re figuring things out. I have more comments:

You wrote:
I get quiet when I am thinking things I would want to tell him, just never feel like the timing is right or the day is the correct day.. sad, I know - but true.

I have this to say:
That''s you -- being self-conscious about the timing. What are you afraid of? That he''ll judge you? Or criticise you? Or have a negative reaction?

Perhaps you''re being hypersensitive and overly-critical of yourself. When you''re feeling down about things in yourself, take time to gain some perspective by doing something you enjoy (a hobby, visiting friends, something external to the relationship). Then, revisit your thoughts and see if it was just a passing mood that''s now faded. If you really trust him, as much as you feel, then these thoughts are really just YOU, and YOUR doubts, YOUR fears. They haven''t anything to do with him -- just your projection, or image, of what he MIGHT do/say/feel.

And what is unfair about this, is that you create a judgement against yourself, spoken in your mind with his voice, entirely without his consent. That''s all you. Not him.

I''ll bet if you did tell him everything on your mind, prefacing it with "I love you, and here''s my thought.." he''d love you even more, for being honest and unafraid.

After all, guys do have that to contend with, since they can''t read our minds, and equally the same, walk upon eggshells just to please us.

 

[Patchee]

Hey ladies! Yet another good day for Patchee~

I have to admit

I *think* it is ME with the issues. While I have been writing to you here, he thinks our relationship is just honeky dorry! I just quiet myself up and then he will eventually say, you ok, your quiet today....

Meep wrote:
Perhaps you''re being hypersensitive and overly-critical of yourself. When you''re feeling down about things in yourself, take time to gain some perspective by doing something you enjoy (a hobby

Your so right about this.. I do have a "hobby" of sorts, all though he is actually my best pal! I have a horse who, when I am feeling like my head is about to explode with thoughts I go to the barn and go for a nice long ride to clear my head and spend time with him... He clears my head, he just listens...

Meep Wrote:
If you really trust him, as much as you feel, then these thoughts are really just YOU, and YOUR doubts, YOUR fears. They haven''t anything to do with him -- just your projection, or image, of what he MIGHT do/say/feel.

And what is unfair about this, is that you create a judgement against yourself, spoken in your mind with his voice, entirely without his consent. That''s all you. Not him.

I''ll bet if you did tell him everything on your mind, prefacing it with "I love you, and here''s my thought.." he''d love you even more, for being honest and unafraid.

Ummm, Meep? I think you know me all to well now!

I DO have a FEAR of what he may do/say/feel! I DO create a judgement against myself. When I am thinking about him and I, and I want to ask him something I always try to build up in my head what his answers might be and just how I will repond to him whether it is postive or negative. What is wrong with me??? I trust him with anything, I really do.. but why do I lack the strengnth to say what I want to say?? I am creating an issue out of a non issue totally... and I just do not know why I do this... I usually take things for what they are which causes no pressure/ no difficult decisions, nothing.. I am laid back and let things flow for the most part... I think that is why we get along so well... but I could create a whole whil wind if I wanted too....

Thank you Ladies, you rock!!! (and hopefully you have that rock soon)

BLEN - thanks for the list! And thank you Meep for posting it!

 

[meepcat]

Date: 4/18/2006 9:43:08 AM
Author: Patchee
Hey ladies! Yet another good day for Patchee~

Ummm, Meep? I think you know me all to well now!

I DO have a FEAR of what he may do/say/feel! I DO create a judgement against myself. When I am thinking about him and I, and I want to ask him something I always try to build up in my head what his answers might be and just how I will repond to him whether it is postive or negative. What is wrong with me??? I trust him with anything, I really do.. but why do I lack the strengnth to say what I want to say?? I am creating an issue out of a non issue totally... and I just do not know why I do this... I usually take things for what they are which causes no pressure/ no difficult decisions, nothing.. I am laid back and let things flow for the most part... I think that is why we get along so well... but I could create a whole whil wind if I wanted too....

Some answers to your questions:

Nothing is wrong with you. There's a fine line between normal behaviors a woman has, and abnormal behaviors -- when she has control but chooses to be irresponsible. You're not being irresponsible -- just honest and probably surprised, since you're just like all the other women out there, pining for her man to seal the deal she has been impatiently awaiting. However, your relationship is very personal to you, and your reactions and actions will be weighed against your most critical judgements. That which is closest to you, will also be just as close to your faults and weaknesses.

It seems to me that you've gone beyond the engagement, to look inside yourself for why you are sensitive to his words. This is a positive thing. For you, the ends have justified the means, which can be a difficult phase in a relationship. This indicates that you will augment your behavior, and be hypersensitive to him, in order to achieve the end result: marriage or engagement. However, it's a subtle change, and it only happens when you start to enslave yourself to fulfilling an image of yourself. It's not honestly you, because you're afraid he'll cast a negative judgement upon you, which could affect your joined future.

I like to think of this as an analogy to the movie, "Blast from the Past," when Eve realizes she's "totally butt-crazy in-love with Josh." She starts to act more nervous around him, interpreting signals from what he's saying, doing, etc. She changes the way she dresses, her interests, even her way of speaking, just to fit HER image of him, and what she thinks he'd want in a partner. The guy (Josh) is completely oblivious, and continues to be as he is. In the end, she realizes that she should re-invest her energies in something more socially productive (like volunteer work), and eventually, the timing is correct, and they manage to get together.

If you're worrying too much about your relationship, then you're probably bored, or you'd be productive at doing something else that requires personal interaction with a person other than your SO. In my experience, I worried for YEARS about my relationships, which all ended, because I wasn't being me. I was being someone else, and failing miserably at making myself happy. It was exhausting. I got tired of doing something that seemed unnatural (although socially, it's acceptable), because it also seemed irresponsible and dishonest. These were two feelings I couldn't keep rationalizing, especially when their symptoms were depression and cynicism.

If you look at every emotion you have in your relationship as a choice ("I choose to be angry at him for such-and-such reason; I choose to be angry at myself.."), this could help you see the origin in WHY you are feeling the way you do. You do have control over these feelings, but your impatience and self-critic can warp your image of you, into something you have no control over. When all else fails, revert to logic. Here's some examples of emotions and a logical solution to resolving them:

1. I'm angry - sleep, eat, breathe, or do exercise. You could be tired/hungry, or not getting enough oxygen to your brain, or not getting enough circulation in your body to flush out tension.

2. I'm frustrated - figure out what is the highest priority for you in that moment (being happy, eating food, drinking water, talking to someone, taking a walk), and work on it.

3. I'm sad - sometimes this can be attributed to mood or lack of sleep, but sometimes music or silence can influence this emotion; listen to music you really like, read a book or gossip column, have a piece of dark chocolate, gab with a girlfriend, listen to someone else's problems for a little while, and figure out if your expectations are higher than what is realistic for what you're sad about.

The most common emotion that I've experienced throughout all my relationships is this: I need love. It can be in the form of affection, a warm discussion, a sincere gesture, a knowing look, holding hands, etc. My last relationships were with men who had incredible difficulty with this concept, and I found myself starved for affection and understanding. It was very sad, really, that I wanted love so much from these men, and they were so closed off. It wasn't sad for me, I was sad for them.

Now, I have a man, with whom I share hours of hugs, kisses, and affectionate exchanges both at home, in public, at his parents, at mine, anywhere, everywhere. It is absolutely normal to want and seek this out. So perhaps, after all your worry, fretting, and discomfort, you could walk up to your man, and tell him, "honey, I love you, I know I might be needy right now, but I really appreciate your hugs. Could you hug me more often, please?"

 

[Patchee]

Meep! Your my therapist and I thank you!

Everything you write hits home to me, makes a lot of sence, things I have to work on! Are you a therapist as profession? I ask because advice you spread here around the boards make so much sence to me.. I think your helping lots of us out!

I think after this weekend I should have better perspective of what will be what because ALL cards will be up on the table and I will know if I am in this thing solo or together... Once I know, I think i will be ok, like total anticipaction of who knows!!! Meep, your the best!

 

[meepcat]

Date: 4/18/2006 4:47:53 PM
Author: Patchee
Meep! Your my therapist and I thank you!

Everything you write hits home to me, makes a lot of sence, things I have to work on! Are you a therapist as profession? I ask because advice you spread here around the boards make so much sence to me.. I think your helping lots of us out!


I think after this weekend I should have better perspective of what will be what because ALL cards will be up on the table and I will know if I am in this thing solo or together... Once I know, I think i will be ok, like total anticipaction of who knows!!! Meep, your the best!

Aw, shucks. Thanks for that, I really appreciate it!

Actually, I''m a software engineer by profession, and my hobby is ballet. I think a lot, but I used to worry even more, and rather than remain self-absorbed as I was for most of my twenties, I feel special towards helping others (through analyzing their relationships and giving personal advice) with the wisdom that has been passed on to me (and ascertained through my own experiences).

Many of my friends would describe me as an intense person, but I''ve learned to become more light-hearted over time, without making any specific circumstance the focus of my every living decisions. I''ve been alone, but even more so, lonely in relationships, and with that pain, I wish for no self-respecting, earnest, and responsible woman to have to wallow in the same pits of despair, depression, or confusion. Such is my impetus for hanging out on these boards to wax relationships. (of course, my original impetus was to search for a diamond!)

I''ve made a lot of mistakes, and I''m human, just like everyone else. And like you, I''m trying to have patience where I would prefer to have what I want. But if I don''t have what I need, that''s where I look for help.

I''m glad what I wrote made sense to you -- I do put a lot of thought into what I write for others, since giving bad advice wouldn''t be polite.

Good luck with your talks. It seems to me that you''re getting closer to what you want (in yourself), and being able to talk honestly with each other will assuage many of your fears and concerns.