I feel like I got sucker punched.

[princesss]

Date: 6/17/2010 6:33:53 PM
Author: Autumnovember
Princess, I can''t say I agree but I definitely can see your point. I''m suggesting they compromise because otherwise its a complete ultimatum which me course, most people would probably advise against...

I don''t understand how it would be an ultimatum. He says, "I''m not ready," so they don''t get married. I don''t recall suggesting she say, "If you don''t propose by x date, I''m gone." I simply said that she should either stay knowing how he''s feeling, or she should leave now/when she can''t take it anymore. I just don''t think that compromise on this decision is a good choice at all.

 

[Autumnovember]

It IS an ultimatum, how is it not?!?!? Your logic makes no sense to me regarding that.



I disagree with you mainly because I myself told my boyfriend I was going to wait x amount of time and then we compromised from there. I don't think because of that we're going to get a "divorce"...and to think that just because we're going to get a divorce because my SO "compromised" is a foolish assumption to be making.

You and I don't agree about this evidently..so lets leave it at that.

 

[princesss]

Happy to.

If you ever feel like it, though, I am interested to try to understand your perspective on this.

 

[Autumnovember]

Ok...without making tension the reason is this:

First let me say like I said before, that I totally understand how you see this as something that CANNOT be compromised. I do agree somewhat.

I''ll try to use my own situation to explain.

Basically, my boyfriend could have probably wait another 300 years before proposing to me (seriously). I was not willing to wait that long considering my life is moving forward, and I would like for my relationship to as well.

I told SO that I was willing to wait a year more for the proposal to happen. Then, one day he kind of blurted how he would be waiting until the very end of the year...and I decided even giving him an entire year was being generous considering our past. I told him I was hoping it would be before December. Several days later even after we stopped talking about the whole thing he told me that he was didn''t mind pushing up our -timeline- to August. To me, this was a compromise. And I guess thats what I meant by saying they need to come to an agreement with a time that would both be suitable for them. My SO has had the ring since November, so anxiousness is putting it nicely when describing how I feel. Sometimes he likes to joke around and say he''s going to do it in September. I "jokingly" respond, that if he waits a day past August..we''re breaking up. And I mean it. <----thats an ultimatum. Which is kind of like the "all or nothing" thing you were proposing.

 

[princesss]

Date: 6/17/2010 11:25:22 PM
Author: Autumnovember
Ok...without making tension the reason is this:


First let me say like I said before, that I totally understand how you see this as something that CANNOT be compromised. I do agree somewhat.


I''ll try to use my own situation to explain.


Basically, my boyfriend could have probably wait another 300 years before proposing to me (seriously). I was not willing to wait that long considering my life is moving forward, and I would like for my relationship to as well.


I told SO that I was willing to wait a year more for the proposal to happen. Then, one day he kind of blurted how he would be waiting until the very end of the year...and I decided even giving him an entire year was being generous considering our past. I told him I was hoping it would be before December. Several days later even after we stopped talking about the whole thing he told me that he was didn''t mind pushing up our -timeline- to August. To me, this was a compromise. And I guess thats what I meant by saying they need to come to an agreement with a time that would both be suitable for them. My SO has had the ring since November, so anxiousness is putting it nicely when describing how I feel. Sometimes he likes to joke around and say he''s going to do it in September. I ''jokingly'' respond, that if he waits a day past August..we''re breaking up. And I mean it. <----thats an ultimatum. Which is kind of like the ''all or nothing'' thing you were proposing.

Okay, I see where you''re coming from, and at the very least, we agree on the definition of "ultimatum".

I think I''m just not being clear on what you''re calling my "all or nothing" approach. Let me see if I can explain better -

If, at any point, OSA feels like she''s just miserable waiting for something she doesn''t know will happen, and she spends more time upset in the relationship than happy and fulfilled, she should leave. It''s totally okay to leave a relationship if your needs aren''t being met, whatever needs those might be. If he''s not comfortable proposing, he shouldn''t have to, but she doesn''t have to stay in a relationship that''s making her unhappy. I don''t think that''s an ultimatum because it''s not her threatening "If you don''t do this, I''m leaving," and I''m not advocating having a deadline that she tells herself she will leave by if she''s not comfortable with that. It''s just that should she realize she''s really unhappy because he isn''t willing/able to commit and she realizes she needs that commitment more than she needs to be with him, she leaves. People leave relationships for all sorts of reasons, and I don''t see this as being any different than leaving because your partner doesn''t want kids and you do.

I''m not trying to cause/start tension with you, and I have absolutely no personal investment in this. I just want to make sure that I''m not being misunderstood and that I''m not misunderstanding anybody. I''m sorry if I wasn''t clear about that earlier.

 

[FrekeChild]

For the record, I agree with AutumnNov AND princesss. I think the "tension" is a little bit of a misunderstanding. I probably side more with princesss though because I don't think this is really something that should be compromised. I have known that girl that has questioned herself, "Did I force him into this?!" as she's about to walk down the aisle. And that BLOWS to go through.

Also, to me, swingirl's post sounds like one of those, "Why should he marry you if he's getting the milk for free?" posts that LsIW get so often.


My husband gave me a lot of "I want to wait until ______". I was patient. Meanwhile my mother was terminally ill and she wanted nothing more than to see us married. He knew this. And he still stalled.

But he wasn't ready.

She died.

He had been ring shopping in the month beforehand. He proposed two weeks after she passed. He cried after he proposed because he didn't know why he didn't propose earlier, and he truly regretted it. He regretted not having her see us get married.

Something I learned while waiting and waiting and waiting for him to propose, from some very wise women here on PS, is that there will never be an ideal time. Nothing is ever perfect. And it seems that some guys are either waiting for perfection, or using the "ducks in a row" as an excuse. People don't need money to get married. Go buy silver bands and a marriage license. <$100. If people start looking for perfection, they'll never get married.

I don't know what to tell you OSA. But I wish you all of the luck in the world.

 

[Callisto]

Not to jump into the fire, but just wanted to add an extra perspective. I agree that ultimatums are bad and you shouldn''t force either partner into marriage. However in this case I think compromise is totally ok. My reason is that he knows he wants to marry her. I''m in a similar (though less extreme) situation and we are compromising. If SO was unsure about the decision I would never force him into it, but he knows its what he wants, he just had a different timeline in mind. So we talked about it and realized we had different timelines and agreed to each alter what we expected and meet halfway or so.

I also have to disagree entirely with swingirl and yssie''s posts (though I respect your opinions). I think it puts the OP''s bf into a very stereotypical male role that is very generalized and an unfair projection. I live with my boyfriend and things are very convenient, I pay rent, we have sex, and I do a ton of housework because I like living in a tidy home. But the idea that he wouldn''t want to take another step of commitment with me because I''m not making him work for it is ridiculous. We''ve known we wanted to get married for a few years but it wasn''t the right time emotionally or financially so we have been waiting and are now starting to seriously talk about engagement and wedding timelines. Perhaps I''m wrong about her SO, but I think it is very unfair to assume that of the OP''s SO (not to mention prolly makes the OP feel unnecessarily bad about her decisions to live with him and such) given our limited knowledge of him.

Who said PS was dead lately... this thread is hoppin''!

 

[princesss]

Date: 6/17/2010 11:40:26 PM
Author: Callisto
Not to jump into the fire, but just wanted to add an extra perspective. I agree that ultimatums are bad and you shouldn't force either partner into marriage. However in this case I think compromise is totally ok. My reason is that he knows he wants to marry her. I'm in a similar (though less extreme) situation and we are compromising. If SO was unsure about the decision I would never force him into it, but he knows its what he wants, he just had a different timeline in mind. So we talked about it and realized we had different timelines and agreed to each alter what we expected and meet halfway or so.


I also have to disagree entirely with swingirl and yssie's posts (though I respect your opinions). I think it puts the OP's bf into a very stereotypical male role that is very generalized and an unfair projection. I live with my boyfriend and things are very convenient, I pay rent, we have sex, and I do a ton of housework because I like living in a tidy home. But the idea that he wouldn't want to take another step of commitment with me because I'm not making him work for it is ridiculous. We've known we wanted to get married for a few years but it wasn't the right time emotionally or financially so we have been waiting and are now starting to seriously talk about engagement and wedding timelines. Perhaps I'm wrong about her SO, but I think it is very unfair to assume that of the OP's SO (not to mention prolly makes the OP feel unnecessarily bad about her decisions to live with him and such) given our limited knowledge of him.


Who said PS was dead lately... this thread is hoppin'!

I can see that. I guess I just tend to see things the way that NEL said her husband put it - when you're not ready, anything is an excuse. When you're ready, nothing can stop you.

ETA: I personally don't think anything is wrong with not being ready - I live with my BF and neither of us are ready. We're content taking things as they come, and I react rather viscerally when I hear people talking about trying to get somebody to get engaged before they're ready because we/I get a lot of pressure from people for a variety of reasons, and it's awful to feel like you're supposed to feel something other than what you feel. Forcing it (in my experience) doesn't work and can lead to a lot of resentments on both sides. Not ready = not ready.

 

[paris29]

Ohsoauthentic-

I know exactly how you feel. My FF and I went through the exact same thing. I was always ready to get married and he wasn''t. He proposed very early on in our relationship, we had been together 11 months. He gave me a promise ring, etc but looking back now he was definitely not ready at the time or in the next couple of years that followed to actually get married. Every time I would bring up marriage he would get mad, saying we were too young, he wasn''t ready, money, school, etc. Then about 2.5 years into our relationship he started pointing out wedding stuff, etc. We also had plenty of talks about kids which for some reason he was much more willing to talk about it. But back to my point. When he started talking about the wedding stuff I thought he was finally ready to get married. Man was I wrong, that night when I brought up wedding plans etc. we got in a huge fight. He still wasn''t ready and so he broke off the engagement. And said he would ask later, a few years down the road. I was absolutely devastated I cried for days. I was so upset. I just couldn''t understand the whole thing. Fast forward to present day, we have been together almost 4.5 years now and we are planning to get engaged in about a month and married in a year or two.

I have to agree sometimes guys do throw out random numbers just to make us happy or get us to stop talking about a certain issue, in this case marriage (I''m sure some women do it to). I''m sure they don''t mean any harm by it. But we can take them seriously and start planning based of the years/date we hear. Which can lead us to believe things are going to happen at a certain time when in actuality they are not.

My word of advice is hang in there. I know it''s hard now, but sometimes we are just ready before them, and if we really love them we have to be willing and ready for them to be ready as well. Of course compromise is key to a relationship, but marriage and kids are huge experiences in a person''s life and you can''t rush someone if they are not ready, it can lead to resentment. When he''s ready he''ll let you or you will able to tell. My FF and I had completely different time lines. But I had to come to realize that this was the man that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with, I couldn''t force him, if he wasn''t ready. I feel like I have been waiting forever, almost 4 years now but I know it will happen. I''m not going to lie waiting is hard, but if it is meant to be, if it is what you want, it will be will worth it in the end. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Callisto]

Date: 6/17/2010 11:42:13 PM
Author: princesss

I can see that. I guess I just tend to see things the way that NEL said her husband put it - when you''re not ready, anything is an excuse. When you''re ready, nothing can stop you.


ETA: I personally don''t think anything is wrong with not being ready - I live with my BF and neither of us are ready. We''re content taking things as they come, and I react rather viscerally when I hear people talking about trying to get somebody to get engaged before they''re ready because we/I get a lot of pressure from people for a variety of reasons, and it''s awful to feel like you''re supposed to feel something other than what you feel. Forcing it (in my experience) doesn''t work and can lead to a lot of resentments on both sides. Not ready = not ready.

That definitely makes sense and I think what NEL said holds a ton of truth. But in some cases, like mine and potentially the OP''s as well, partners may just have different predicted life timelines as opposed to not being ready.... for example SO told me he wanted to marry me first, said I love you first, and is more eager to talk about our future together. However in my mental timeline of our relationship I''d like to be engaged in the very near future whereas he''d rather wait a bit longer. It really has little to do with not being ready and more to do with just sticking to this timeline you imagined and not wanting to stray off of that. I haven''t forced my SO into anything, we discussed our timelines and were both able to see that our timelines had little to do with our commitment to each other hence our eagerness to compromise about an engagement and marriage timeline.

 

[princesss]

Date: 6/17/2010 11:55:17 PM
Author: Callisto

Date: 6/17/2010 11:42:13 PM

Author: princesss


I can see that. I guess I just tend to see things the way that NEL said her husband put it - when you're not ready, anything is an excuse. When you're ready, nothing can stop you.



ETA: I personally don't think anything is wrong with not being ready - I live with my BF and neither of us are ready. We're content taking things as they come, and I react rather viscerally when I hear people talking about trying to get somebody to get engaged before they're ready because we/I get a lot of pressure from people for a variety of reasons, and it's awful to feel like you're supposed to feel something other than what you feel. Forcing it (in my experience) doesn't work and can lead to a lot of resentments on both sides. Not ready = not ready.

That definitely makes sense and I think what NEL said holds a ton of truth. But in some cases, like mine and potentially the OP's as well, partners may just have different predicted life timelines as opposed to not being ready.... for example SO told me he wanted to marry me first, said I love you first, and is more eager to talk about our future together. However in my mental timeline of our relationship I'd like to be engaged in the very near future whereas he'd rather wait a bit longer. It really has little to do with not being ready and more to do with just sticking to this timeline you imagined and not wanting to stray off of that. I haven't forced my SO into anything, we discussed our timelines and were both able to see that our timelines had little to do with our commitment to each other hence our eagerness to compromise about an engagement and marriage timeline.

I get what you're saying now. I will admit, that's not the sense I'm getting from the OP's post, but I'll be very happy if that's what it is! It's actually why I'm kind of against timelines (which is odd, because I'm super planner extraordinaire - I'm currently planning my trip to NZ for fall of 2011!) because I feel like once you're ready, they're kind of arbitrary. Once you're ready, as in "I'd marry you right now if I could" ready, why not just do it? Unless he has to save up for bling. I'll let that slide.

 

[Autumnovember]

Yeah I mean, I completely can agree that when you ARE ready there aren''t any excuses. This is definitely true.

This is a tough topic. I can see both sides, for sure.

 

[Callisto]

You''re right what I''m describing may or may not be the OP''s situation. With my SO though (and I do think this is a biological feature more common to men) he thinks very sequentially and has a hard time multitasking. While this may not seem related to engagement I was surprised to see its affect on that as well. His thinking was very strict on graduate- get job- propose and became very uncomfortable if I tried to discuss any of those topics before their time in the sequence. It wasn''t an excuse he just needed to finish a before moving onto b, you know? That way I can kind of see OP''s so feeling the need to get a better job before proposing if he''s at all like my SO. Granted I think he should get motivated to find that job so he can move on with other things, like proposing, or become more comfortable with doing things out of sequence.

 

[princesss]

Date: 6/18/2010 12:11:18 AM
Author: Callisto
You''re right what I''m describing may or may not be the OP''s situation. With my SO though (and I do think this is a biological feature more common to men) he thinks very sequentially and has a hard time multitasking. While this may not seem related to engagement I was surprised to see its affect on that as well. His thinking was very strict on graduate- get job- propose and became very uncomfortable if I tried to discuss any of those topics before their time in the sequence. It wasn''t an excuse he just needed to finish a before moving onto b, you know? That way I can kind of see OP''s so feeling the need to get a better job before proposing if he''s at all like my SO. Granted I think he should get motivated to find that job so he can move on with other things, like proposing, or become more comfortable with doing things out of sequence.

It sounds like we have very similar SOs - but in our case I think he has a hard time respecting himself for not having the "good" job he feels like he should have, and he doesn''t feel like an equal partner. Once he respects himself and is happy with himself, I wouldn''t be surprised if things moved a little more quickly. But man he''s horrible at multitasking! Drives me up the wall - especially in college, when he somehow couldn''t look for a job AND write his thesis. Meanwhile I wrote a thesis, had an intensive seminar, worked 2 jobs, and found a job starting a week after graduation. Bah. Dating him shouldn''t be like looking in a mirror, but I wouldn''t mind if he was a tad bit more flexible/able to multitask.

 

[katamari]

Date: 6/17/2010 11:39:05 PM
Author: FrekeChild

Something I learned while waiting and waiting and waiting for him to propose, from some very wise women here on PS, is that there will never be an ideal time. Nothing is ever perfect. And it seems that some guys are either waiting for perfection, or using the ''ducks in a row'' as an excuse. People don''t need money to get married. Go buy silver bands and a marriage license. <$100. If people start looking for perfection, they''ll never get married.

This should be a sticky on the LIW board. And BWW. And probably Rocky Talky, too.

 

[VikingP77]

OMG FrekeChild, that is one of the saddest things I''ve read lately.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 6/18/2010 12:40:39 AM
Author: VikingP77
OMG FrekeChild, that is one of the saddest things I've read lately.

Sorry Viking.

It's just life I guess, and a part of my personal history. Albeit sad.

It certainly wasn't meant to be a downer, just informative, I suppose. It was a very hard time for me (and it's all documented here on PS actually, as I was on PS all day, every day back then) but I would not have made it through all of that as well as I did, if it weren't for my husband.

You see, part of his regret comes from the fact that his mother passed away about 6 months before he even met me. So not only was my mom not around to see us married or engaged, but his mother was gone too. I believe he said something like, "I wish that at least one of our moms could have witnessed it." Imagine a grown man crying in the middle of the Strip in Las Vegas. If it hadn't been me, I would have thought it was peculiar or maybe even amusing.

My mom's present to us for Christmas (this was December 2008 btw) that year was a trip to Vegas that we had planned in October. He planned from the beginning to propose then, in Vegas, where our relationship started, because of the sentimental meaning behind the location (we also got married in Vegas for the same reasons). Thanksgiving was not good for her and she passed December 4th (which was also her and my dad's 32nd wedding anniversary). My husband proposed on December 19th, and he kept his original plan because he felt that if he didn't, his plans from the beginning would have all been in vain. And he wanted me to have some semblance of happiness in such a deep dark time.

It was amazing. And she would have wanted it that way. She would not have wanted him to stop his plans. Yeah, she would have wanted to see everything happen, and experience my joy, and of course I would have wanted her to too. But sometimes you just have to make the best choices you can. And play what you get dealt. He proposed because he wanted to marry me, nothing was going to hold him back that night. Nothing.

...shrug...

Sorry to threadjack, I just wanted to explain a little bit better.

And thanks Kata. Perhaps some needlepointed pillows are needed too.

It is so freaking true though!

 

[beezygal]

I''m sorry that you''re heartbroken. I was in a similar situation before. My bf and I have been together for almost 6 years. I had many meltdowns last year as I know more ppl were getting married or having kids. No matter how much I tell (or nag) him about marriage, he just wasn''t ready. He couldn''t even give me timeline. I told him I want to be married by 26. He said.. he didn''t know when he would be ready and he didn''t know IF he''ll EVER be ready. I was sooooo heartbroken and he was pissed of the nagging. Then, I stopped talking about marriage altogether and he was finally ready a few months ago.

The thing is... there''s nothing we can do to make a guy be more ready. Perhaps they really want to establish a good career first in order to provide for the family? At least he told you what his timeline is. Maybe you should have another heart to heart conversation about your timeline? Tell him how upset you are.

I''m sorry you feel this way. Good luck to you! *HUG*

 

[beezygal]

Date: 6/17/2010 11:25:22 PM
Author: Autumnovember
Ok...without making tension the reason is this:

First let me say like I said before, that I totally understand how you see this as something that CANNOT be compromised. I do agree somewhat.

I'll try to use my own situation to explain.

Basically, my boyfriend could have probably wait another 300 years before proposing to me (seriously). I was not willing to wait that long considering my life is moving forward, and I would like for my relationship to as well.

I told SO that I was willing to wait a year more for the proposal to happen. Then, one day he kind of blurted how he would be waiting until the very end of the year...and I decided even giving him an entire year was being generous considering our past. I told him I was hoping it would be before December. Several days later even after we stopped talking about the whole thing he told me that he was didn't mind pushing up our -timeline- to August. To me, this was a compromise. And I guess thats what I meant by saying they need to come to an agreement with a time that would both be suitable for them. My SO has had the ring since November, so anxiousness is putting it nicely when describing how I feel. Sometimes he likes to joke around and say he's going to do it in September. I 'jokingly' respond, that if he waits a day past August..we're breaking up. And I mean it. quote]
Ha... Autumn. you cracked me up!

I had the same conversation with my bf. The other day, I was telling him how I know he'll propose on July 24, our 6 yr-anni. The ring should be ready in time... if nothing is wrong with it THIS time. (crossing my fingers) Then he's like... well.. I don't want to RUSH into it. I'm like... well.. you better propose by our 6 yr-anni, remember last year on our 5 yr-anni? (last year, I was upset the WHOLE day knowing that we're still not engaged after dating for 5 whole years!!! I was throwing a hissy fit for the entire dinner. He was pissed 'cuz I was being like that. Then, I had to ask him about the whole marriage/engagement thing and ended up crying for the rest of the night. It wasn't pretty.

)

So, I think he'll propose before July 24. He said "yayaya... I will then" after I reminded him of the horrible night last year.

I'm evil. I'm like "good... or else, I'll be VERY VERY ANGRY and I'll be crying for the whole night" lol

 

[Nomsdeplume]

Date: 6/17/2010 5:06:12 PM
Author: swingirl
You''ve got a 25 year old boyfriend who lives with his girlfriend, shares the rent, has sex-- what''s not to love about the current situation? And why change anything? Why take on the responsibility of a wife and kids when things are going so well and are very convenient?

Why don''t you move out, live independently, take care of yourself and allow your BF to take care of himself, find his career and when he becomes a man and is ready for the responsibility of a family he will be ready for marriage. I don''t mean to be harsh but it''s more than being on different time lines. You are both young and if you have been living together for 2 years you moved in when you guys were barely adults.

Obviously some people ARE ready to get married at a very young age but those are folks who aren''t waiting around for the right moment, or right job, or right anything. All those milestones in life can be made with a ring on your finger and I for one think the right job, right house, right moment is wonderful to spare with a spouse. Your BF wants to find his ''right moments'' as a single guy.

I COMPLETELY agree with this.

 

[kateydid05]

Date: 6/17/2010 2:59:14 PM
Author:ohsoauthentic
So I haven''t posted in a while, but have been lurking around. I have no one to talk to about this at the moment, and I just really need to talk, vent, whatever you want to call it.

As I posted before, I''ve been with my boyfriend for almost 4 years, living together for 2. Whenever the subject of marriage would come up, he''d say he wasn''t ready. Wants better job, feels too young, etc. I respect this, and I''ve accepted it. The only reason I would get somewhat frustrated is because he couldn''t give a rough ballpark of a timeline (ie: maybe next year or something) so it made me panic that it had to do with me or something. I understand now that he just literally had no idea of even a ballpark. I accepted that and was doing quite well with not bringing it up and what not.

So. My best friend just had a baby, and we were looking at baby stuff the other day. Of course I was all gushy and even made a comment about us having one in a couple years. He said that sounded good. This kinda confused me, because it made no sense that he could talk about having kids in a couple years, but couldn''t talk about marriage - even though we''d both agreed that we wanted to be married for a couple years before we start having kids. But I digress. Then he''d point out wedding stuff constantly, like literally pointing out a wedding if we drove by one, or in a movie. At one point we were watching a movie and he asked why I didn''t comment on the girls wedding dress lol.

Silly me, all of this in combination with how great things have been going for us lately, started thinking maybe he could be ready soon. I know it was wishful thinking, but I was hoping maybe he would propose on our 4th anniversary in September, or if not then, sometime this year.

Well. Last night I had a little meltdown. Coworkers have been really getting to me lately (most of the time I can brush it off, but this girl was terrible). She asked why we weren''t married after 4 years, or even engaged yet. The tone she used... ugh, just SO unbelievably judgemental. She basically insinuated that something is wrong with either me or the relationship because he hasn''t proposed yet. Which I know there''s nothing wrong with me, but it just hurts when a complete stranger is starting to voice the very things I''ve been thinking about.

So I just mentioned to him that I wasn''t trying to get him to agree to anything, persuade him into anything, I was literally just trying to understand. I said it confused me how he could talk about having kids in 2 years no problem, but couldn''t talk about us getting married. I said I actually meant that I''d love to have a baby in a couple years, not like 5. And he said oh, I think our timelines are off then. He said that he meant 3-4 years for kids, and 2-3 for marriage.

2-3 MORE YEARS.

My jaw dropped, because as I said, I was thinking like 1-2 years TOPS. I was thinking we''d be getting engaged maybe even this year. Plus at one point last year when we were discussing our readiness, he said ''it''s not like I''d be waiting 5 years or anything.''

I know he never told me a timeline or anything, though we did say we''d love to be married by around 25/26 when we first started dating. Clearly that meant nothing. I know sometimes these things change, and don''t go as planned... but still. I''m in such shock.

I just went to the bathroom and bawled my eyes out after that conversation. I''m happy he told me, but I just... wow. I don''t even know what to say.

I stayed up late last night, just listening to music and trying to gather my thoughts. I couldn''t stop crying, and I''m still crying even as I write this. I just feel so...heartbroken.

I''m sorry this is a downer post, I just needed to get it out. Thanks ladies.

I think I can understand both sides here because I seem to hover between the line of "i''m ready now" and "holy [expletive] no way!" These coworkers got under your skin. I''ve had that..."what'' taking him so long?" "why''s he dragging his feet" "what''s wrong with him"? Wherever you are in your mind, other people will find a way to infiltrate without even realizing it!! It''s amazing sometimes. I have never been a girl that''s thrilled with getting married, sometimes I argue with myself over what the big deal is/you should be excited b/c it''s an exciting thing. Lately I''ve realized that at 25, my mind is shifting towards wanting those things. I''ve been with my boyfriend for almost 6 years, living together with 2 and he''s just beginning to think that way. Here''s his reasoning (which I found out last night) he''s getting older...just turned 27...and it''s kind of freaking him out a bit. While he wants to be married to me and spend the rest of his life with me, it''s a huge step and a little scary when he sat down to think about it. Neither of us really have a timeline...if he asked me, I''d say yes, but we never really discussed a timeline because we were just going with the flow...now we''re getting to a point where maybe we should talk about it. To be fair, when we referred to our future, instead of a conversation about kids like your situation, our conversations go towards "when we buy a house" and we completely bypass the whole getting married thing because we know that''s a sure thing.

For your boyfriend, maybe he doesn''t grasp how long 2-3 years actually is. Because he''s never given you a timeline, maybe he''s never really thought about it either and just said the first thing that came into his mind. All I can say is to sit down with him and explain how you feel so that he knows your ideal timeline and see if you can at least talk it all through. You''re in shock now, so take a break and relax and discuss things with him after you had some time to really think about it. If his timeline stays at 2-3...and you''re willing to wait, you''ll wait. If not, you''ll know what''s right for you, I can''t tell you that. You had a knee jerk reaction to his statement and now you need to have a discussion and let him know what your timeline was and how you feel. He may not truely understand your side of things, ya know?

I''m sorry that you feel so hurt right now

 

[RaiKai]

My suggestion is that you two sit down and have an open, honest and non judgmental talk with one another. The key here is to really, really listen to each other. Share with him why you want to marry him and why you are ready (and not just as you love him!). Listen to him as he shares why he thinks 2-3 years works for him and what he believes he needs to be ready (and why he feels he isn't). Listen to him as he shares why he wants to marry you at some point. Talk about your individual and shared expectations for marriage. Talk about whether you think things will change or not when you are married - why or why not?

Consider premarital counseling if you are not sure together where to start with all this talk.

Really listen to each other without attacks, or taking it personally. Do not try and convince him his excuses do not make sense - accept that they are real for him, and so on. And after that kind of talk I think you will be in a better position to decide if you really are moving in the same direction (albeit on different time lines) and whether you are comfortable with as things are now and to wait 2-3 years. Then you can make some choices.

I agree with NEL that when someone - man or woman - is ready, there is no excuses that will hold them back (and I have been on both sides!), as there is no reason that you two cannot be married while you continue to pursue individual goals and you can support one another in that. Life will ALWAYS be changing and you will ALWAYS be growing as individuals so to wait until you are "all set for life" does not make a lot of sense. With the right person, you want to take on life's challenges together. So right now he is not ready but that is not necessarily saying he does not want to be ready with you at some point, either. And maybe in 1, 2, 3 years he will be ready and wanting to marry you - whether he has his dream job then or not.

And even if you do stay it is ENTIRELY possible in 2-3 years he still won't be ready - that is the problem with setting these time lines far in ahead, they make presumptions that you will somehow be ready then when you might not be anymore ready. So only you can decide whether you are comfortable taking that risk.

 

[janinegirly]

I think the bottom line is he has said very clearly that he is not ready to get married anytime soon. Hence the "2-3years" comment. Many men are not ready while dating their eventual wives (hence all the LIW's), but in this case he is specifying that it'll be many years away. Now if you were someone who felt the same way (want to accomplish certain things before marrying) then it would be ok, but in this case you were assuming it was months away.

Have you guys talked about it anymore?

 

[missy]

Date: 6/17/2010 5:06:12 PM
Author: swingirl
You''ve got a 25 year old boyfriend who lives with his girlfriend, shares the rent, has sex-- what''s not to love about the current situation? And why change anything? Why take on the responsibility of a wife and kids when things are going so well and are very convenient?


Why don''t you move out, live independently, take care of yourself and allow your BF to take care of himself, find his career and when he becomes a man and is ready for the responsibility of a family he will be ready for marriage. I don''t mean to be harsh but it''s more than being on different time lines. You are both young and if you have been living together for 2 years you moved in when you guys were barely adults.


Obviously some people ARE ready to get married at a very young age but those are folks who aren''t waiting around for the right moment, or right job, or right anything. All those milestones in life can be made with a ring on your finger and I for one think the right job, right house, right moment is wonderful to spare with a spouse. Your BF wants to find his ''right moments'' as a single guy.

I totally agree with this. I do not think you should rush someone into marriage and he needs to be 100% ready. However, by the same token I think you should move out (or have him move out) because living together gives him everything he wants without any of the real responsibility and commitment IMO. If he is not ready to marry you then why does he get all of the benefits of being married by living with you and none of the real commitment and responsibility that goes along with it?

I feel for you and hope that you are not upset by my comments but I truly feel you should move out on your own until he *is* ready to marry you.

Hugs,
Melissa

 

[ohsoauthentic]

WOW you guys are amazing!! I can''t get over all the replies that have been written since I left yesterday!

He and I are both off today and have to do a bunch of running around, so I''m not sure if I''ll be able to get on to do a proper reply... but I will try my best to get back on at some point today/tonight if I can get some alone time.

Just wanted to quickly say thank you so much to all of you, I really appreciate the insight/support during all of this.

Again, I apologize that I can''t do a full proper reply to everybody just yet... I feel bad considering how many responses I''ve gotten. But I promise I''ll be back as soon as possible!

Much much love. ♥

 

[missy]

Date: 6/17/2010 11:42:13 PM
Author: princesss

Date: 6/17/2010 11:40:26 PM

Author: Callisto

Not to jump into the fire, but just wanted to add an extra perspective. I agree that ultimatums are bad and you shouldn't force either partner into marriage. However in this case I think compromise is totally ok. My reason is that he knows he wants to marry her. I'm in a similar (though less extreme) situation and we are compromising. If SO was unsure about the decision I would never force him into it, but he knows its what he wants, he just had a different timeline in mind. So we talked about it and realized we had different timelines and agreed to each alter what we expected and meet halfway or so.



I also have to disagree entirely with swingirl and yssie's posts (though I respect your opinions). I think it puts the OP's bf into a very stereotypical male role that is very generalized and an unfair projection. I live with my boyfriend and things are very convenient, I pay rent, we have sex, and I do a ton of housework because I like living in a tidy home. But the idea that he wouldn't want to take another step of commitment with me because I'm not making him work for it is ridiculous. We've known we wanted to get married for a few years but it wasn't the right time emotionally or financially so we have been waiting and are now starting to seriously talk about engagement and wedding timelines. Perhaps I'm wrong about her SO, but I think it is very unfair to assume that of the OP's SO (not to mention prolly makes the OP feel unnecessarily bad about her decisions to live with him and such) given our limited knowledge of him.



Who said PS was dead lately... this thread is hoppin'!

I can see that. I guess I just tend to see things the way that NEL said her husband put it - when you're not ready, anything is an excuse. When you're ready, nothing can stop you.


ETA: I personally don't think anything is wrong with not being ready - I live with my BF and neither of us are ready. We're content taking things as they come, and I react rather viscerally when I hear people talking about trying to get somebody to get engaged before they're ready because we/I get a lot of pressure from people for a variety of reasons, and it's awful to feel like you're supposed to feel something other than what you feel. Forcing it (in my experience) doesn't work and can lead to a lot of resentments on both sides. Not ready = not ready.

The difference is (IMO) is that *neither* of you (princess and Callisto) are ready so if you are both OK with living together unmarried there is absolutely nothing wrong with that!! It is only because OSA *knows* she is totally ready to marry her boyfriend and he wants to wait (for whatever reason) that I feel she should move out. Why is he ready to live together and has been doing so for a few years but *not* ready to commit and marry? That is their business for sure but since she is not happy with the situation as is it is unfair of him to expect that the status quo should remain as is till he *is* ready. Maybe if she moves out he will get to realizing that he just cannot live without her (literally) and that he really is ready. Sometimes we don't know our own mind. I speak from experience. When my dh proposed I didn't think *I* was ready but Greg said we need to move forward in our relationship and he was 100% right. I was just scared and it took him shaking my world up a bit to realize that.

I wish you all the best concerning this issue OSA. No one here truly knows what is going on in your bf's mind or your relationship but it is good to see different perspectives concerning this and different points of view.

 

[lilyfoot]

My view on this is: A man will propose when he's ready.

If he hasn't proposed yet, then he's not ready (for engagement/marriage).

Does that mean he doesn't ever want to marry you? No.

But, what it does mean, is that you need to know exactly how long YOU are willing to WAIT for him to be ready.

My best friend has been dating her boyfriend for 5+ years now. She has been ready to get engaged for at least 1.5 years or more. But there is no proposal in sight for them. He told me at the beginning of last year "It'll definitely be before the end of the year". Well, the end of the year came and went, and no proposal. So now he has told my husband that he's definitely not proposing this year, but possibly next year.

It is not financial (he just bought a $3k+ motorcycle, travels multiple times a year - i.e. he's going to Korea this month, etc). He's just not ready. Which I could completely respect, IF he was honest about it.

Within the span of their relationship, my husband and I started dating, got engaged, and got married. My friend acted ok about it, but believe me, I know how much that bothered her (and it would've bothered me too, if the situation was reversed!)

 

[rhbgirl24]

I know I''ve said this before on this board, but my DH took over 11 years to propose - granted we started dating when I was 15, but still.

When they aren''t in that frame of mind, it doesn''t matter. NEL is right, anything is an excuse. But when they do see marriage for them there is no reason not to. When my DH felt he was ready, that we were ready in our lives, he started saving for the ring, planning the proposal, so on. Then everything went quickly from there.

Take it from me, you can''t make them. And you shouldn''t. But if he wants to marry you it will come.

 

[TooPatient]

Is it possible it is just a misunderstanding between the Man Language and the Woman Language?

There was a woman not too many months ago who posted that what her SO was not looking forward to (avoiding, putting off) was a big fluffy wedding, not marriage. They talked and found that he wanted marriage too he just didn''t want a fluffy, frilly, super traditional wedding (and neither did she!).

FI and I were talking shortly before he bought my ring. He seemed to think that we had to have enough money saved to pay for a wedding (plus enough time to take off of work, energy to plan, etc) within just a couple of months. I actually want a longish engagement (18 months). That changed everything.


Anyway, men and women seem to have whole different vocabularies when it comes to this subject. It is possible that you both want the same thing but aren''t understanding each other.

 

[eleguin]

I think that there is a difference between not being emotionally ready for marriage and not being ready because one''s "ducks are not yet in a row." In the first instance, if he is not ready for the commitment of marriage, you really have to wait until he is, otherwise he is being forced into a life commitment that he isn''t ready to make, which could cause bitterness and resentment in the future. However, if he is ready for this commitment mentally but just waiting for the right job, house, etc, perhaps there could be some compromise.

I started dating my husband when we were 19 (we are now 29) and we openly talked about "when we are married" since the beginning of our relationship. Only difference is that I was thinking marriage at 23 and he was thinking 28. He had that 28 number for no real reason other than that it seemed like a reasonable number to him and was the age when most of his cousins got married. When I realized that we had a huge gap in our expectations, I told him that I''d much prefer to get married earlier, even if we were just starting out in our careers, didn''t have a lot of money and weren''t able to buy a house right away. Since he was emotionally committed yet didn''t have a great urgency to tie the knot, he understood that I really wanted to get married, so he proposed at 24 and we got married at 25. I think a little compromise is fine as long as both people have reached that level of commitment.