I got my sapphire today...

[BWise]

Need any help to pick?

Date: 4/13/2009 10:02:22 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
The only real poopy thing is that because I am in Canada it is a little bit of a hassel to return the stone! Luckily, DH is going to Fort Erie for a Hockey tournament this weekend and can pop over the border to send it by USPS (you can''t insure jewels for greater than $500 going from Canada to the US!)

Date: 4/13/2009 9:42:42 PM

Author: yingh

Sorry to hear about that! If you prefer the durability of sapphires, do you like pink or yellow ones?


I would highly recommend red or hot pink spinels as they can be very pretty without the extra high price tag of ruby or pink sapphires. It will take some time to find a good one, but all worth the wait.


If you prefer green stones, then definitely go with tsavorite or grossularite garnet. Gene at precisiongem.com has two lovely stones!


Good luck with your search!

You are right! Hmmm... now things are ticking...

 

[marcy]

Darn it anyway. It looks so pretty on their website. I hope you find a stone you love soon.

 

[chrono]

I''m so sorry it didn''t turn out to be as you expected. It looks great in the pictures.

Are you still looking for blues? Blue spinels will disappoint if you compare them to sapphires. Many are overly dark or have that dreaded gray that makes them look steely intead of soft and velvety.

Red and pink spinels are getting quite pricey now too, especially in very pure and saturated colours.

Are you thinking about greens too?

In short, what carat weight or mm size are you aiming for?

 

[ma re]

All stones have certain lighting conditions in which they look better, and other, in which they don't look as good. It's simply nature of color and light.

Does it have to be faceted? How about an opal? I know it's not the most durable of stones, but with some care it can last you a long time. And in terms of brightness of color(s) it beats about 90% of faceted materials

They also look pretty amazing in any light, and are always interesting to look at.

Rubelites are quite durable and good bang for the buck in a bright red color.

 

[babysteps]

DD, I am so sorry that it didn''t suit - but you are wise not to keep it if it isn''t just exactly what you wanted - good luck with the hunt!

 

[Kismet]

Aww, that''s a bummer that you didn''t like the stone. Chrysoberyl can be a nice option of you like yellow-green.

 

[Dreamer_D]

You are all so great and so helpful! In many ways, that sapphire was a sort of "one off" thing. That color (in the pictures anyways) with that price seemed "too good to be true," and even though it was not my jewelry priority to get another ring, I snapped it up because my DH and I wondered how long it would be before another stone came along that really captivated me? But it was a little too good to be true

Now I''m just not sure and I think I need to step back and spend some more time pondering. Always pondering

I am also hesitant to buy online now given the hassel of returning gems from Canada to the US. You simply cannot get insurance for gems greater than $500. So we have to drive accross the border to return them! I was surprised at how different the stone looked in person compared to the photos and I just wonder if it will be that way again?

Of course, I can always just stick to buying stone under $500!

 

[Kismet]

Another option for you may be to get someone like Richard Wise or Wink Jones to go looking for you.

 

[T L]

Date: 4/14/2009 10:51:46 AM
Author: Kismet
Another option for you may be to get someone like Richard Wise or Wink Jones to go looking for you.

Adding a middle man like that always raises the cost. That's why I like going directly through a faceter that charges wholesale prices (like Barry and Gene). In the case of a super rare gem like a padparadscha or some super rare color, it may be worth it though. However, since the ban on Burmese gems, and the problem with all Ceylon material having to come out of the country as pre-cut, it always adds a premium to the price. For example, Jeff White buys already cut Ceylon sapphires from dealers, and then he recuts them. Therefore there's always a markup. It's usually cheaper to buy a stone in it's rough form and then recut (at least I would think so). Gary went to Sri Lanka (Ceylon) to get that gem. I'm not sure if he purchased it already precut though, but if he just obtained it as rough, perhaps that added to the lower cost.

 

[chrono]

Well, if DD wants an unheated blue sapphire that doesn''t bleed or turns purple, without the added cost of shipping/returns, getting it right the first time is important. I would recommend going the Wink route because he gets it right the first time. Yes, there is a markup but may be worth the cost due to the insurance border/customs hassle. I feel that RW has a higher markup though. However, if DD is in the US, I''d recommend Barry and the like.

 

[Michael_E]

I was surprised at how different the stone looked in person compared to the photos and I just wonder if it will be that way again?

Yes, it probably will be that way again if you''re buying based on the display pictures of items that are for sale. The reason is that pictures are designed to sell and so are taken with very carefully controlled lighting setups. For deeply saturated colored stones, like sapphires and garnets, this means flooding the stone with light from every direction, (something which doesn''t happen often in normal situations).

How do you get a good idea of what the stone will really look like ? Easy, ask the seller to take some pictures in natural lighting and from different directions. Most sellers will happily oblige....they want you to be happy, since if you''re happy you''re more likely to buy again and tell your friends about them. A picture from the side and with the stone upside down gives a much better idea of the body color of the stone and isn''t influenced by the color of the reflections from the pavilion when the stone is held face up.

One thing to keep in mind is that, as the color of the stone gets better, the cost usually goes up exponentially. That means that those unheated, electric blue sapphires can easily cost $3000 to $5000 per carat or more. Regardless of what you''re paying, you should always buy based on views of the stone in lighting that you''ll be using it in.


Michael E.

 

[chrono]

Michael,
Excellent advice! I never buy without additional pictures. One of the most important ones is the one placed between the fingers on the back of the hand, taken outdoors with no additional lighting.

 

[T L]

Michael,
So nice to see you posting on PS. That is excellent advice. One criteria I have for purchasing gems is that the seller be able to take more pictures of the stone if I request them. I recently asked gemfix for additional photos of a stone I was interested in, and the seller said on the phone, in these exact words, "absolutely not." That killed any more interest I had in the stone. It wasn''t a cheapo stone either. That sends a red flag to me.

Gary might have taken additional pictures for you in outdoor light or natural light. I don''t recall if you had asked, but he is a very nice and accomodating man. I don''t see why he wouldn''t.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 4/14/2009 12:03:53 PM
Author: Chrono
Michael,
Excellent advice! I never buy without additional pictures. One of the most important ones is the one placed between the fingers on the back of the hand, taken outdoors with no additional lighting.

I asked for this and got the attached photo! The thing is, the color as seen by the camera in this case is *completely* different than what the eye sees! I think it is something to do with the lense? In reality, the stone is a much darker purple color and has only momentary flashes of blue--not electric. Indoors it is a darker purple (to be expected) but even in natural light it is clearly purple with little blue. If I hold it by the window and shade it with my hand it has some little blue.

Anyways, my point is not that the pictures vendors take are inaccurate--some are very accurate, some less so (the stickied thread attests to this). With this particular stone, you cannot actually photograph it to look the way it does to the naked eye! At all. And that is the issue that concerns me about ordering future gems.

Chrono, I think your point about using a middle man for ordering gems to import to Canada is probably wise. I am not particularly interested in an unheated sapphire though. I don''t mind heat! I think that when I look for a new sapph I will contact Wink.

 

[Dreamer_D]

This is the gem in incandescent light. This is the closest to what I see in person, but even still something about the camera really amps up the blue and makes the stone appear quite different.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 4/14/2009 12:18:44 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Gary might have taken additional pictures for you in outdoor light or natural light. I don''t recall if you had asked, but he is a very nice and accomodating man. I don''t see why he wouldn''t.

Gary was wonderful and I would buy from him in the future. The cutting on the stone was indeed lovely, though because the stone was darker I couldn''t see the facets as much as I would prefer. My only wish was that he had looked at the photos and noticed how different they look than the actual gem, and let me know about this. But que sera.

 

[chrono]

DD,
Have you informed Gary about how unrepresentative his pictures are of the stone? This is an important thing for him to know because it will impact future sales. If he is unable to change the camera technique, then he needs to add a note together with the picture describing what the eye sees.

I suggested Wink because he procured 2 blue heated sapphire sidestones for me and they hold their blue for me indoors and outdoors. He's not gone wrong for me once. I purchased from him during my novice days with the full assurance that I'll be receiving fine quality stones and he did not disappoint. These days I prefer to search on my own though. However, if there's something extremely rare and I am unable to find a fine quality stone, I will not hesitate to contact him again. It won't be the cheapest stone (it'll be more than what Barry, Dan and Gene charge) but it'll be worth it.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

I understand how you feel. I ended up buying my sapphire at a B&M after looking online just because my schedule was so tight, and I was still very much a beginner, that I didn't want to keep sending stones back and forth. But, also, the sapphires this jeweler had were some of my favorites, so it made it worth it. But since then, I have bought everything online, and have been pretty happy.

I was going to recommend Wink to. I know he video tapes the stones if you request it. Another thing you can do is what LS did when she was looking for the blueberry. She had a chart she gave to vendors with different shades of blue and they talked about stones in regards to the colors on the chart. That way, they both had a common reference point.

 

[chrono]

Date: 4/14/2009 12:47:54 PM
Author: LtlFirecracker
I understand how you feel. I ended up buying my sapphire at a B&M after looking online just because my schedule was so tight, and I was still very much a beginner, that I didn''t want to keep sending stones back and forth. But, also, the sapphires this jeweler had were some of my favorites, so it made it worth it. But since then, I have bought everything online, and have been pretty happy.

I was going to recommend Wink to. I know he video tapes the stones if you request it. Another thing you can do is what LS did when she was looking for the blueberry. She had a chart she gave to vendors with different shades of blue and they talked about stones in regards to the colors on the chart. That way, they both had a common reference point.

I like the GIA Munsell colour chart. It grades the hue, tone and saturation. It’s not the best system out there but at least it’s a starting point and a good common ground. When I was shopping for my spess, I asked Jeff to rate the stone based on the GIA colour chart and I had a fair idea of the colour, enough for me to know that’s what I was looking for.

 

[CharmyPoo]

That photo is pretty darn impressive - I can see how disappointing the real stone can be. I am also in Canada but can''t offer any advice. It is a hassel for me to return anything as well but luckily I travel to the US frequently. Good Luck!

 

[T L]

Date: 4/14/2009 12:43:01 PM
Author: Chrono
DD,
Have you informed Gary about how unrepresentative his pictures are of the stone? This is an important thing for him to know because it will impact future sales. If he is unable to change the camera technique, then he needs to add a note together with the picture describing what the eye sees.

I suggested Wink because he procured 2 blue heated sapphire sidestones for me and they hold their blue for me indoors and outdoors. He's not gone wrong for me once. I purchased from him during my novice days with the full assurance that I'll be receiving fine quality stones and he did not disappoint. These days I prefer to search on my own though. However, if there's something extremely rare and I am unable to find a fine quality stone, I will not hesitate to contact him again. It won't be the cheapest stone (it'll be more than what Barry, Dan and Gene charge) but it'll be worth it.

Someone should because if you read the opening page of his website, he talks about how accurate his pictures are (third or fourth paragraph down), and how the the stones look even better IRL.

 

[FinewaterGems]

I''ve been lurking for a while so I''ve been watching the thread with a little amusement. I do try to match the color of my gemstones as well as I can in my controlled photo environment, but the problem here was that I took some shots in a uncontrolled environment (i.e., outdoors). The customer asked for some shots in natural lighting, which was no problem so I complied with several quick snapshots on my wife''s hand outdoors on a dark and cloudy morning. I sent them off without giving it much thought, but in retrospect I should have Photoshopped them to the stone appear more violet/purple (as is mentioned in the gemstone description.) I have no problem with the return since I already have another potential customer lined up, but I guess my lesson learned is to be more careful with random photos!

Regards,
Gary

 

[T L]

Gary,
I know photography is far from a perfect science, but someone else was surprised at how different her tourmaline looked in comparison to the pics vs IRL. I also had the same issue with an Afghan tourmaline. In any case, I''m glad to hear you''re making positive changes.

 

[chrono]

Gary,
I’m no fan of photoshop, especially in a vendor’s picture unless it is cleared stated that the vendor is unable to capture the actual colour, and it was photoshopped to show what the vendor sees in person. I am very encouraging of outdoors shots; I like to use natural lighting as it isn’t affected by artificial lighting, light setups, etc. However, if it still doesn’t show the real colour, as DD’s sapphire behaves, then photoshop may be your only recourse with a statement explaining the reason. Another method commonly used, is to just post/send the picture anyway but add a disclaimer about how the camera picks up a different colour.

 

[FinewaterGems]

Some stones just refuse to photograph well - green and lightly saturated stones seem to be the most difficult for me to get right. And even when it looks right to ME on MY monitor, I know that it will look different to others'' eyes on their monitors. I use an old-fashioned CRT monitor that has better color resolution than most, but LCD monitors used today are notoriously variable. Because of that, I''ve come to expect some confusion over color and some possible returns. I chalk it up to the cost of doing business (and there''s nothing else that I''d rather be doing!)

 

[cinnamon013]

Gary has a great return policy. Basically, if you don't like what you receive, you decide that and send it back within 10 days. Sometimes it takes getting the stone in hand to determine if you like it or not. While I do agree that shipping back and forth to Canada is troublesome, at least you have the return clause.

I thought that stone was so pretty. Too bad it was not what you expected. I thought that about a stone I received from another vendor, but then it kinda grew on me and now I think it is lovely! However, the sapphire you purchased was more than my garnet. So just return it and start shopping for a new lovely. It may take a few sapphires to find the one you love.

ETA: The first couple of colored stones I bought were a bit of a shocker. I expected something completely different and for a while thought I'd just stick to diamonds. Then, I realized I couldn't afford to stick with that. I started appreciating the beauty of colored stones and just needed to see a few more to get used to the expectations.

ETA2: I just checked the description and he does talk about it being a violet color and a color changer. Since the photos show blue, I think with those color changers you just have to see them in person to see if you are going to like the colors.

 

[T L]

Gary has an excellent return policy. When I went to return the Afghan tourmaline he sent me, I obtained a tracking number and had it insured, and the stone got lost in the mail!! He was patient while we both waited the time the postal service took to determine if a claim was needed. He told me not to worry about it as he was preparing to leave on his trip to Sri Lanka. He was so gracious about it. He reimbursed me before he even received the stone, but it is heart breaking to lose a stone that you work so hard on faceting. In any case, happy ending. I did reimburse Gary, and I also finally received my USPS claim check.

This was the first time I ever lost ANYTHING in the mail, but fortunately, Gary was extremely gracious and professional about it. I really appreciated that. While it is difficult to discern color from a two dimensional photo, it is great that we can still buy online. The selection of colored gems is just not available for the prices and for the selection that we get at your typical B&M store. I would still highly recommend Gary due to my experience with him. It is sometimes important to see a stone in person, but at least if you don''t like it, you can trust that he will reimburse you. He is also very good with emails and responses. Thanks Gary!!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Gary, thanks for chiming in, I wondered if you were lurking

Your cutting and customer service is great, and I think that the photo on your website is a fair representation of the sapphire, just showin in its best lighting (saphs are so tempermental you''d certainly want to show it at its best). I just got really excited by the shots in natural lighting and should perhaps have paid more attention to the online photo and your verbal descriptions of the stone. Hopefully no one reading this thread takes away any negative attitudes about your company, that was not my intent!

When I was playing around myself with trying to take pictures of the sapphire, I was really wierded out by how it changed with the camera lense. Looking at it in person I would see a purple violet color, then when I put the camera in front of my eye it became electric blue! Never seen that before. So I suspect that this particular stone *may* be an unusually challenging culprit to photograph.

Anyways, thanks for popping in, this is a strange little land we have here on PS and its always great to hear from vendors