MINE!!
Ideal_Rock
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I Hate to admit my
- Thread starter MINE!!
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Mine,
This may give you a little more background on the problem. (I did read the article for which you posted a link. The problem for the reader was that that article just gave the current news, not the background.)
Rioting in France
Deb
This may give you a little more background on the problem. (I did read the article for which you posted a link. The problem for the reader was that that article just gave the current news, not the background.)
Rioting in France
Deb
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Here is some more background information which you, as an historian, will probably find interesting. I also recomment viewing, "The Battle of Algiers", which is, I must warn you, a definitely anti-imperialist movie! It has a "point of view", I mean!
pieds-noirs
Deb
pieds-noirs
Deb
strmrdr
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movie zombie
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rubydick
Shiny_Rock
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I''ll second Deb''s recommendation of the Battle of Algiers. Here''s a review.
Battle of Algiers
The Criterion DVD is excellent, particularly the extra materials, such as the interviews with the French torture specialist. I seem to recall somewhere that the film was shown to some US military personnel prior to their deployment to Iraq, to give them an inkling of what they might face.
strmrdr
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immigration to the US worked in the past because the people coming in quickly integrated and became Americans.
Now days we arent seeing that with a lot of groups.
The Asians quickly extablished themselves here over very few generations because they became Americans instead of trying to stay seperate.
When you have a group of people who are outsiders and stay by choice outsiders it leads to racism, distrust and riots.
Acceptance without integration does not work it just fragments society.
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Well, I do not agree with that! It took time for new immigrants to become integrated. There were programs set up to help them at the end of the late nineteenth and beginning of the twentieth century. Look up the Settlement House movement. Look up Jane Addams and Hull House. The men in my own family, Slovaks from the Austro-Hungarian Empire, had to pretend to be German to get work. No one wanted to hire Slovaks or other Eastern Europeans.
Deborah
MINE!!
Ideal_Rock
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strmrdr
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It didnt happen overnight but usualy by the 2nd generation (first generation born in the US) it did.
Im 3rd generation out from Germany on my mom's side.
Her parents immegrated to the US at a young age and settled in north dakota.
But you made my key point: They wanted to be Americans and worked at it they didnt try and force the US to become like their old country.
Rank Amateur
Brilliant_Rock
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It seems to me that immigrants of previous generations were able to keep some of their ethnicity while still wholly becoming Americans. They did not give up everything they brought with them from the old country and "convert". Somehow there was a balance.
Maybe today there is a worldwide sense of entitlement which was absent back in the day when people struggled more and were given less.
Maybe today there is a worldwide sense of entitlement which was absent back in the day when people struggled more and were given less.
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You are generalizing. I do not know if you are correct or incorrect since I have no data to offer, either. From a strictly anecdotal viewpoint, I see many people working very hard now in an effort to better themselves, assimilate, and offer their children a better life than they had. I have a cleaning woman from El Salvador, here legally, who has a business cleaning houses while her husband works (legally) as the employee of a landscaper. They own their own (small) house in a cheaper suburb. In their house are the two of them, their three year-old daughter, my cleaning woman's sister, and-until rcently-my cleaning woman's disabled uncle. (He had to move to a rooming house when they wanted to give their daughter her own room.)
My cleaning woman is a very loving and nurturing mother to her daughter who just turned three. When her mother-in-law (the child's grandmother) could no longer care for her, she had to put her into "school" (daycare?). The little girl cried; she wasn't ready to leave her mother. Her mother had to work! The couple has two teenage daughters in El Salvador living with their maternal grandmother. They are trying to bring them here legally and it is, therefore, taking years. One of the girls had a life-threatening accident in El Salvador within the past year and my cleaning woman could not go to see her because she was awaiting a change in her immigrant status and was not allowed to leave the country. The INS told her she could do nothing for her daughter even if she were with her!
These are good, hardworking, Hispanic people. They are living the way my Slovak forebears did. My great-grandfather used to travel back and forth between the US and Austria-Hungary when he had earned money here and could bring more family members over.
I will revise and or add to this later. My own family is calling on me!
Deborah
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Is the unrest triggered by some unfair treatment of these people or is it because they don''t have more pressing things to busy themselves with? I admittedly don''t know hardly anything about the way the French treat their Muslim population.
These El Salvador people whom you admire seem to be working hard in real life and are too busy to "protest" any "unfairness".
These El Salvador people whom you admire seem to be working hard in real life and are too busy to "protest" any "unfairness".
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Perhaps the word you are looking for here is, "unemployment". The exact question you posed could be reworded as, "Is the unrest triggered by unfair treatment or are they just unable to obtain work?". When one is unemployed, he isn''t usually very busy. He is also frustrated, ashamed, and angry. I have seen my husband unemployed through no fault of his own and I know.
Work is pretty important. If one cannot get work, he cannot feed, house, clothe, or educate himself or his family.
Deb
strmrdr
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Storm,
You are, at least, consistent in your reasoning. Of course, sometimes a country doesn''t know when it will suddenly experience high unemployent or a high birthrate...or the opposite. Sometimes a country needs more workers and a higher birthrate. Like Canada. New immigrants who settle in the interior, where Canada wants people, are awarded many bonuses.
Deb
strmrdr
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onedrop
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Rank: It is my understanding that the rioting is ongoing because this population of France feels marginalized. I am just giving an opinion here, but having been to France before there is a clear and distinct class division at work there. The immigrants from former French colonies are looked down on and are not considered equals to the non-immigrant European-French population. It is a pretty interesting study and probably one that we can identify with as United States citizens because we have many of the same issues here. I hope that strm''s predictions do not come to pass...
movie zombie
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good historic view of the problem: http://www.tompaine.com/articles/20051109/why_paris_is_burning.php
and on a personal note: there have been several european films at film festivals covering this issue over the last years. the latest that we saw was BANLIEUE 13. we saw it at tiff in september it is available on dvd. it is written, directed, and acted by a french crew and set in the year 2010. it is evident that the people involved with this film know the problem has been building for quite awhile. it wasn't until i started reading about the current events that i understood the underlying political importance of this film.
additionally, the film is great because all of the action is for real! the man that climbs the buildings is actually doing all the 'stunts' in real time. it is a 'sport' in france called "parkour" founded by his father and he is considered the best in the world....i had heard of the 'sport' previously and know that it has been practiced in some other countries. the weak link in the film is the female actress so you are warned should you decide to see it. the film is considered sci-fi for its future date setting and martial arts for its action....but i am still amazed at how relevant this film is at this time.
peace, movie zombie
What is Parkour?
"Parkour is the art of movement where participants (known as Traceurs) use objects within their urban surroundings, to move from point "A" to point "B" in a motion that is both Fluid and Interesting. Encompassing a variety of moves such as Running, Vaulting, Climbing, Jumping to overcome these obstacles, a Traceur will eventually create a "Run" (see the Glossary for complete list of terms used). To which the uninformed may mistake the discipline for scenes out of movies such as Spider-Man, The Matrix or even Martial Arts films. Only this time, the "stunts" are done without Special FX or Wires." quote from http://www.highlanders.co.za/parkour/about/?content=faq
and on a personal note: there have been several european films at film festivals covering this issue over the last years. the latest that we saw was BANLIEUE 13. we saw it at tiff in september it is available on dvd. it is written, directed, and acted by a french crew and set in the year 2010. it is evident that the people involved with this film know the problem has been building for quite awhile. it wasn't until i started reading about the current events that i understood the underlying political importance of this film.
additionally, the film is great because all of the action is for real! the man that climbs the buildings is actually doing all the 'stunts' in real time. it is a 'sport' in france called "parkour" founded by his father and he is considered the best in the world....i had heard of the 'sport' previously and know that it has been practiced in some other countries. the weak link in the film is the female actress so you are warned should you decide to see it. the film is considered sci-fi for its future date setting and martial arts for its action....but i am still amazed at how relevant this film is at this time.
peace, movie zombie
What is Parkour?
"Parkour is the art of movement where participants (known as Traceurs) use objects within their urban surroundings, to move from point "A" to point "B" in a motion that is both Fluid and Interesting. Encompassing a variety of moves such as Running, Vaulting, Climbing, Jumping to overcome these obstacles, a Traceur will eventually create a "Run" (see the Glossary for complete list of terms used). To which the uninformed may mistake the discipline for scenes out of movies such as Spider-Man, The Matrix or even Martial Arts films. Only this time, the "stunts" are done without Special FX or Wires." quote from http://www.highlanders.co.za/parkour/about/?content=faq
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