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Gypsy

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So... our guest list was at 75 with 60 expected. That included all the people John and I thought were important, plus a 7 duty invites. Not included were ANY of John''s 20 first cousins (with spouses brings us up to 40) guests or any of my mother''s first cousins (ridiculous amount of them) or my father''s side of the family (also a crazy amount, and I don''t speak with them anymore).

Then two weeks ago, my mother expanded the list to include, at her expense, 4 duty invites on our side of the family (2 couples), 6 of her friends (3 couples) whom she has been lifelong (since her teens) friends with, and my stepfather''s siblings (with their spouses). This brought our count up to the nineties with 75 expected.

Now, my parents have (finally) accepted John into our family. And have offered to (aside from paying for their guest additions) help pay for this wedding. We were shocked but touched.

And we were stupid.

So today we are going over wedding budgets and so forth with my mom, and I brought the guest list.

My mother was fine with it and EVEN REDUCED ABOUT PEOPLE FROM THE LIST! (Shock and awe).

And we decided to include my step father in the wedding planning.

My step father is a lovely man with a generous heart. But he''s never had children and is frequently like a child himself (if any of you remember his behavior when my mother was sick you''ll know what I mean).

He threw a HISSY FIT that his nieces and nephews weren''t invited. ALL TWENTY OF THEM (when you include their spouses). 3 of whom I have never met. And all but one I have spent less than 6 hours of TOTAL TIME with in my LIFETIME. My mother and I argued as much as we could against this. But he threw a TANTRUM and well...

the list is at 110 now (I cut a few ''and guests'' to get this down to as low as possible). They''re helping to pay for it, and my mother doesn''t work. So we had to give in, apparently.

So I tell John, who is upset. Because his mother was SERIOUSLY upset that he wasn''t inviting his 40 (twenty plus spouses) first cousins on his father''s side.

WELL, now that I''m inviting STEP- first cousins. Guess who we''ve got to invite in order to avoid alienating his mother and sisters? You''ve got it. His first cousins (that he doesn''t even WANT to invite).

So the guest list?

ONE HUNDRED FIFTY PEOPLE.

None of the venues I''ve looked at can comfortably accommodate that.

John''s pushing for Vegas again.

My grandparent''s are telling me to elope somewhere tropical.

And I feel like crying. I really wanted the California wedding with my grandfather in his cherry red scooter walking me down the aisle.

I''m so disheartened. I wish I could just tell Step dad where he can stick his neices and nephews, but I can''t. Not even because of the money. But because of my parent''s marriage.
 
Awwww Gypsy! I have a headache too but for different reasons.
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If I were in SF right now I would take you out for a drink!

Why can''t you just say thanks but no thanks to the $ and do it your own way?
 
Oh Gypsy! I''m so sorry. I don''t have a solution for you but just wanted to drop a line of encouragement ... you will get through this ... with your sanity, to boot!

Just think, in a couple years, maybe more, you will look back on all of this mayhem, laugh and chalk it up to a good memory.
 
Bill and I eloped in Vegas on a new years eve and I''ve NEVER -- NOT FOR ONE SECOND -- regretted it. We''re going back this new years (12/31/08 -- actually 1/1/09 because we were married after midnight so our marrige certificate would say Jan. 1 for tax purposes) to renew our vows with Elvis for our 10 year anniversary. DO IT. Seriously.
 
Gypsy...sorry!!!
Sounds like you guys might have to just set a limit NOW and if someone is left out, then well...they''re just left out.
Maybe you guys need to consider other options...just do what you guys really want to do. Don''t settle for something because of someone elses'' obligations...or because you feel obligated. It shouldn''t be that way.
Anyway, I would also take you out for a drink
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M~
 
Oh Gyp...I''ve got it too after reading that
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. I can''t imagine the stress.

Honey...take two tablets and fresh look at it in the morning. When you do, ask yourself whose wedding is it? If you are willing to decline the nice gesture...cut the list down so you can use your venue.

I really wanted the California wedding with my grandfather in his cherry red scooter walking me down the aisle.

This is WHAT YOU WANT...you have to get it. You know what? The day after you wedding...you are no longer a little girl. No longer under your parents protection. You are a board certified adult human being now joined with another board certified adult human being. Why would 24 hours make any difference? You are an adult...you are planning a wedding to marry your beloved...IT IS YOUR WEDDING. I am trying to shore you up and encourage you to get what you want. If your grandfather can''t attend any other venue...THAN THAT IS YOUR POINT OF NO CONCESSION. Period.

Honey...your parents marriage is no responsibility of yours. You are about to commence the start of you own. If they couldn''t get it right, your wedding isn''t going to be the fix. One half of your parents/step are acting extremely childish. Insisting an invitation to more than half of your original list? Give them each 10 slots and allow them to figure out how to fill them. Toss the names in a hat and have them draw them. They will figure out who really should be there. Walk away and see how the dust settles.

If that scooter walk is jeopardized because of the second cousins you will regret it for the rest of your life. §
 
Gosh, Gypsy, I''m so sorry! It seems we are all having family issues, and none of them are good to have.

I wish I had some sage, groundbreaking advice, but I understand the pressure of trying to please everyone.

Just make sure your grandfather is there, and the rest is gravy.

Hang in there, hun! Sending good thoughts and hugs your way..
 
I'm gonna look at it again in the morning-- can't really deal with it all right now. I REALLY could use a drink, and I'd take you all up on it were you here.

I found three venues in the Livermore Valley, all vineyards, that are reasonably reasonable (not as much as Wente, but oh well), that can accommodate a 100+ people comfortably. I've asked for appointments and John's going to look at them this week. He's also looking into Vegas-- any advice there is appreciated. My uncle has offered to fly my grandfather out First Class to Vegas with the scooter if we choose to go that route. So I may get grandpa and the scooter (he can't walk) that way too.

If we decide on the larger venue out here route, I KNOW that of John's 40 first cousins (the thought makes my headache) 6 will show up. They just won't be able to swing a trip out to CA for a wedding. It's just the thought of dealing with this.

Part of me thinks that Mara's right and we should just go to city hall. But I know I'd regret that and resent my family for forcing me to do that. And I don't want bitterness and regret starting off our married lives together.
 
That stinks. It brings such a negative feel to things. I wish parents could see that by pressing these people on their children they are just creating stress. It is so hard to want someone there that you have never met! Just seems totally ridiculous to me. I had something similar with my step dad but since I literally had to not invite so many of my own friends, I put my foot down. He was PISSED but so be it. I hope things get better for you...maybe a calm dicussion when things are more settled might help...
 
Gypsy...could you just pull a Surfgirl? Bring John and your parents and grandpa and THATS IT. Do it up your way locally and then go out for dinner to celebrate with everyone. That way you can have the chicest event ever, with the details you want, without stressing about the big event.
 
I''m sorry to hear about things, Gypsy. I have similar experiences with guests and parents, but our "added" guests won''t come, so it''s not as big of an issue.

I agree with everything DKS says. She''s a wise one! Do it YOUR way-- your step family and your parents'' relationship is not your responsibility. It''s YOUR wedding. Invite who YOU want.
 
Date: 1/21/2008 12:21:13 AM
Author: neatfreak
Gypsy...could you just pull a Surfgirl? Bring John and your parents and grandpa and THATS IT. Do it up your way locally and then go out for dinner to celebrate with everyone. That way you can have the chicest event ever, with the details you want, without stressing about the big event.


Neatfreak:

1. My Mom
2. My Stepdad
3. John’s Mom
4. My Younger Aunt
5. Hubby
6. First Cousin #1
7. First Cousin #2
8. My Elder Aunt
9. Her Husband
10. My Uncle
11. His Wife
12. John’s Eldest Sis
13. Her Husband
14. Her Son
15. Her Daughter
16. John’s Middle Sister
17. Her Husband
18. Her eldest daughter
19. Her middle daughter
20. Her youngest daughter
21. John’s Youngest Sister
22. Her Husband
23. Her elder Daughter
24. Her younger daughter
25. John’s Uncle
26. His Wife
27. First cousin #3
28. Her Husband
29. First Cousin #4
30. His fiancé.
31. My Best Friend
32. Her fiancé.


Smallest list possible. This is our close family. Both of us were raised communally. My aunts had a large part of my upbringing as my mother was a single mom. My two 1st cousins are like my siblings. John''s sisters helped raised him (he was a ''surprise'')and so did his uncle, and he was raised with his 1st cousins on his mother''s side like I was. Actually I''d have to add 5 other people to that list too. So 37. All of whom would show up. I''d have to look around to see how possible this would be.

I''d need an east bay venue that could accommodate this size event. And actually I think I know of one.

http://www.postinorestaurant.com/

This sounds like a REALLY good idea.
 
ugg, I just wrote this long post and lost it

Gypsy sweetie, this is YOUR wedding, you really need to do what John and yourself want. Don''t you want to look back 20, 30, even 50 years from now of photos of your DREAM wedding?

Seriously, you two need to do what you want, not what everyone else wants. I do know what you are going through though. When my FI and I told his parents were were getting married in Maui w/ less than 40 people they were a bit shocked. All of his cousins weddings have been 300-500 ppl so I think that''s what his parents thought we were going to have. Yeah, I don''t think so! We are doing what is right for us and what our dream wedding is to us.

If you need any help planning to elope, I''m here for you
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Or if you need to take some time way from wedding stuff we can do another SF GTG and surround ourselves w/ diamonds
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ugg, I just wrote this long post and lost it


Gypsy sweetie, this is YOUR wedding, you really need to do what John and yourself want. Don''t you want to look back 20, 30, even 50 years from now of photos of your DREAM wedding?


Seriously, you two need to do what you want, not what everyone else wants. I do know what you are going through though. When my FI and I told his parents were were getting married in Maui w/ less than 40 people they were a bit shocked. All of his cousins weddings have been 300-500 ppl so I think that''s what his parents thought we were going to have. Yeah, I don''t think so! We are doing what is right for us and what our dream wedding is to us.


If you need any help planning to elope, I''m here for you

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Or if you need to take some time way from wedding stuff we can do another SF GTG and surround ourselves w/ diamonds
36.gif

 
Asscher, I''m thinking lunch in February. What do you think? I need to get away from this all. Badly.
 
gypsy, I am sorry. I hope you wake up without the headache and everything falls into place and people fall off that guest list.
 
Date: 1/21/2008 12:55:40 AM
Author: Gypsy
Asscher, I'm thinking lunch in February. What do you think? I need to get away from this all. Badly.

i'm sorry gypsy! i know how you feel - i told FI that next time i get married i am eloping
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i think you and john really need to put your foot down and that might mean either not taking your mom's money cause you know that she will start elbowing in or telling your mom and stepdad that they are welcome to contribute but you and john will use the money as you both see fit.

my parents wanted to contribute initially and i thought ok, you guys can help with paying for the band but then my mom started talking in a very "i'm taking this over" way about the music that she wanted to have. i had to nip this in the bud and said that well maybe i need to think about this. eventually, they offered a contribution and didn't have any strings attached and i did not mention to them where i am going to use this money - i will let them know afterhand when i give them the family album. and FI was really adamant about this money not making us beholden to them.

since i am not getting married in a church and one of the reasons i am having this wedding is for my parents, i figured that there are some things i will concede to in order to make it worth having a wedding that will make them happy (no sense in having one that has no aspects that they would like if part of the reason i am having it is to make them happy - if that makes sense).

but i am already making some big concessions for my mom - evening reception and dancing - these concessions are things that will cost us more money than we originally planned - so that is the limit.

hang in there gypsy - your mom sounds like a toughie but if you are like me, you learned from your mom and you know when to "channel" her and stand your ground when you need to ( you learned from the best :) )

and to tell you the truth - if i could start over again - i would have eloped and then had a party for friends and family afterwards

ETA : i'd be up for a SF GTG too!
 
Date: 1/21/2008 2:34:25 AM
Author: ringster

Date: 1/21/2008 12:55:40 AM
Author: Gypsy
Asscher, I''m thinking lunch in February. What do you think? I need to get away from this all. Badly.

ETA : i''d be up for a SF GTG too!

We''ll set one up then. Is it just SF you''re up for or Palo Alto or Santana Row too?
 
Date: 1/21/2008 3:34:31 AM
Author: Gypsy
Date: 1/21/2008 2:34:25 AM

Author: ringster


Date: 1/21/2008 12:55:40 AM

Author: Gypsy

Asscher, I''m thinking lunch in February. What do you think? I need to get away from this all. Badly.


ETA : i''d be up for a SF GTG too!


We''ll set one up then. Is it just SF you''re up for or Palo Alto or Santana Row too?

any of the above - and south bay is prob better :)
 
DH has umpteen gazillion cousins and aunts and uncles, who all would have happily come to our wedding. Very very ..er... expressive cousins. (Irish and Italian not always a calm mix, ya know?) The whole idea gave me shuddering fits.
We got married with just our immediate family and I''ve never once regretted it. Your ''immediate'' family is a bit larger but still a very managable size. I say stick to just that 32 - 37 and have the wedding of your dreams! Besides, having a smaller guest list means you can go a little upscale it whatever aspects of the wedding are most important to you.
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Good luck!
(and have a drink)
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Update:
I talked to my mom today.

She apparently was LIVID last night at Stepdad's stunt (she's learned to hide these things well), but knows how I feel about their fighting in front of me so she kept quiet. She also didn't want to have step dad think it was the two of us against him (which is something he is sensitive to). But she told me no way in HECK are his neices and nephews coming if I don't want them to. And we talked about how to approach him. I'm going to call him in a couple of days, explain to him that while I love his family, I really have only had relationships with two of his neices, and that was well over 10 years ago. And that John and I told him mother NO on the invites to the 40 first cousins on his dad's side with the understanding that we were limiting the guest list on both sides. So that he's put me in an uncomfortable position because his 20 additions means 40 additions on the grooms side. And that I think it would be best to call his siblings and explain to them that while we would love for them to come, we are having a small wedding, and cannot accomodate their children.

I have no idea how he'll react to it. But I feel it's the right way to go. I can keep the wedding at Wente or Scotts, or any of the other places we are still looking at.

I also told mom to stay tuned because I've got a 37 person guest list emailed to her, and that we may opt to go that way. And, surprisingly, she was fine with that. : ) And I think I might be too. We'll see how things go this week.

But I am feeling better.
 
I didn't see this yesterday, but I'm so glad you're feeling better about it, and it sounds like you've got a good plan in place. :) Sending cyber hugs your way!!
 
glad your mom is being supportive and that it looks like things will shake out to your liking (if with a few bumps along the way). good luck!!
 
Gypsy, I am so routing for you here, having lurked around long enough to follow a bit of your wedding planning drama.

I am so glad your mother is being reasonable on this issue but I have to say that you are shooting yourself in the foot sometimes!

And I know how tempting it is.

Your relatives mean well, they take interest, they offer to pay, they are momentarily reasonable, so you include them in some decision making and share them in your planning and then...

Wham-O! Out comes the unreasonable demands and manipulation. Sends you for a loop and makes you skulk off and contemplate eloping.

As much as you want to be able to share with your mother (and her husband), as much as you would love to be that girl, planning your wedding with your mother, seeing eye-to-eye on everything from the scale of the event to the style of the dress...

i just fear that it is not a wise course of action - sharing the planning with them (especially something as mine-laden as the guest list) just leaves you vulnerable to manipulation and guilt-BOMBs and disruption.

i know that you know that, intellectually, you should just plan it on your own and present it as a done deal to your families. But emotionally, emotionally you keep getting sucked in to this dream of happy supportive families letting you plan the wedding you want... and it doesn''t appear to be making you happy in the end
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I have to agree with cara on this. I made no comment when I read that your family had volunteered to pay some wedding expenses. With the offer of money, usually stipulations or obligations surface sooner rather than later.

You had posted previously that the the wedding plans were going to be presented to your family as a *done deal* after you and John had made your decisions. I silently applauded your courage, but as cara wrote, we all want the fairytale wedding where everyone is supportive and helpful. IRL, this seldom happens.

If you follow through with your current inclusion of your mom in the planning, I''m afraid that wedding #3 will not happen either.

Strangely enough, even though I know you only through PS, I''m really hoping this wedding will take place this year.
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. You have all the ingredients for a great wedding and marriage, please don''t put them in jeopardy.
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Sounds like you have a good plan. Best of luck with everything. I wish I could be more help, but the ladies on here have given some wonderful advice already.
 
gypsy, your life is going to be a roller coaster from now until your wedding. just prepare yourself for the ride that you are choosing to take. not trying to sound harsh but past experience is a very good indicator of people''s behavior.

unfortunately, we can''t choose our family and so we have to face the reality of who they are as well as who we are. your FI is now your family and you need to take care of him and he needs to take care of you. what is the best for both of you? it would be a shame to spend all of that energy and money on a day that should be special to both of you with a lot of stress where no one is happy.

i don''t like that is seems that your mom is now looking like the good cop and your stepdad is looking like the bad cop. that there is some dynamics that i wouldn''t want to touch with a ten foot pole.

really, if the roles were reversed and it was your FI''s family that was causing so much stress, i think a lot of people here would be like "how could he let his family do X, Y and Z? he should be considering you and standing up to them!" not that you are intentionally doing this but your family is getting in the way of your special day with your FI.

in the past, not so much so now, i had to realize that my parents were never going to be happy with whatever i did so i just had to make sure i was happy. at least someone was happy instead of everyone being miserable!

take care as i know it isn''t easy.
 
Date: 1/21/2008 6:50:26 PM
Author: isaku5

I have to agree with cara on this. I made no comment when I read that your family had volunteered to pay some wedding expenses. With the offer of money, usually stipulations or obligations surface sooner rather than later.

You had posted previously that the the wedding plans were going to be presented to your family as a *done deal* after you and John had made your decisions. I silently applauded your courage, but as cara wrote, we all want the fairytale wedding where everyone is supportive and helpful. IRL, this seldom happens.

If you follow through with your current inclusion of your mom in the planning, I'm afraid that wedding #3 will not happen either.

Strangely enough, even though I know you only through PS, I'm really hoping this wedding will take place this year.
36.gif
36.gif
. You have all the ingredients for a great wedding and marriage, please don't put them in jeopardy.
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I have presented many of them as a done deal. And my mother and I have, since her unreasonablness at the hospital, had many heart to hearts and she is being really good.

The photographer is pretty much a done deal (we have it down to two) and they have no say (though their gift to us for our wedding is photography, I gave them a budget and promised to sick to it).
The venue (if my talk with step dad goes well) will be a done deal.
My dress and accoutriments and John's garments are a done deal, except for alterations, and I've picked who I'm am having do that.
John and I will pick the menu.
Flowers are done, completely.
I'm have to pick out a DJ.
A hair and makeup person.
Invites and a calligrapher.


The guest list was pretty much a done deal to my mother. And those she added, at her expense, honestly I could agree with. Plus after a week of thinking about it, she herself removed a few from the list that I wasn't 100% sure about.

My stepdad, just really blindsided us all.

I am trying very hard to balance the 'present it as done' while also trying to spend some quality time. Since she was so ill, and almost didn't make it, I want these memories. And she does too. So we are both walking a fine line and trying very hard to make it work.

And I agree 100% with this: "With the offer of money, usually stipulations or obligations surface sooner rather than later." ANd my mother and I discussed this, and she put no stipulations on the offer of $$, and promised not to in the future.

But apparently she forgot to have that talk with her husband. Which she now will.

So we'll see how it goes. I hear what you are all saying. And can even see myself giving the same advice in your place.

Hope is a terrible thing. But, well, I'm hoping that this fine line can be walked and that all goes well, with only little bumps on the road.

I hope you all will still respect me, despite my decision.
 
Only saw this now-hugs Gypsy! I''d definitely tell your step-dad that they can''t go. It''s your wedding and you do not want to look back in years to come and resent your family for it. If he keeps putting pressure on you, much as the extra money is probably a great help, I''d give it back. I hope that he sees sense when you talk to him next.
 
Date: 1/21/2008 12:13:28 AM
Author: Gypsy

Part of me thinks that Mara's right and we should just go to city hall. But I know I'd regret that and resent my family for forcing me to do that. And I don't want bitterness and regret starting off our married lives together.
Gypsy......when I read this today, all I could do was emit a huge sigh.

I'm going to say this as gently as I know how to say it, and you're just going to have to trust that this comes from having YOUR best interests at heart.

I don't really know how you expect to come out of this without bitterness and regret.....but not toward your family. I see it coming from John.

Gyps, HE is supposed to be the most important thing to you....your number one priority. This man asked you to marry him EONS ago, and you've put off how many times now because you can't find a way muster up a little backbone and be firm with your family? Sweetie, I don't mean full-on-tilt, drag-out-your-pointy-hat-and fly-on-your-broom backbone......I just mean 'willing-to-get-up-off-the-train-tracks-and-stop-getting-hit!' backbone! Just a LITTLE bit!

If I were in his shoes right now, I'd feel pleeeeeeeenty resentful, and I'd be questioning why I even want this in the first place. At this point, I'd have to sit there wondering if I was signing on for a LIFETIME of watching the person I love get manipulated and jerked around seemingly without protest.

How can worry about preserving others' respect when it seems you don't already respect yourself?

I love ya, Gyps.....you KNOW I do or else I wouldn't even bother...and nearly didn't. There's only so much insight you can offer to people, but if they aren't willing to get in the game themselves, there comes a point at which outside help is fruitless. I'm going to take a last shot at this, and if it takes hold, it does. If not, I'll accept that it likely never will and promise to hold my tongue from here out.

I'm NOT NOT NOT saying this to be hurtful. I'm saying this to make a last try at shaking some sense into what I KNOW is an otherwise sensible head! It's time to put on the big-girl pants....once and for all.

Get married on a cliff with just the two of you. Get married in City Hall.. Get married in the Vineyard. At this beleaguered point, I honestly believe the details don't matter NEARLY as much as making sure it happens this time.....for you, for John, and for your relationship together.

Sweetie, do you REALLY want to beat this horse to the point that by the time the wedding arrives, it's nothing but a "thank God *that's* finally done" moment? Do you honestly want it to feel like barely crawling across the finish line gasping for breath....instead of rejoicing and celebrating?

My dear, the process is JUST as important as the outcome. You're so focused on the fairytale day that you're losing sight of the far-less-than-fairytale years leading up to one measly day.

Please....stand up and get off the ride.
 
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