I have a headache.

[surfgirl]

I''d like to thank Alj for posting what I wanted to post last night but didn''t because I didn''t I could phrase it quite right. I totally agree with her. All I could think of when I read your OP was that if I was John, I''d be at my wit''s end right now and honestly, who could blame the guy? This is a pattern that''s been going on for literally years now, yes? It''s time to ask yourself "Do I want to be married to John and start our married life now. RIGHT now?! Yes or no?" If no, then you need to stop the madness. If yes, then for the love of god, go get married already and stop hemming and hawing and allowing others to ruin what is the most important decision of your life. Getting MARRIED is the most important decision, NOT how many second cousins or unwanted guests there will or will not be at your wedding. You remember when I kept telling you, "Please Gypsy, just elope and get married while you''re in Vegas..."? Because I didn''t want to see another thread like this regarding your wedding. And I too like you a lot, but honey, it''s time to sh#t or get off the pot already. Wasn''t it you that posted a thread saying you didn''t even enjoy the wedding planning process at all (or was that someone else??). Please, run off and get married and make John happy. Make YOU happy. Start your marriage already! And if you want your Grandpa to be there, then elope to the city hall nearest him. It really IS that easy! Like the ad says, Just.Do.It.

 

[Gypsy]

Ok.

Need to re-read, cause I know it's coming from the heart from both of you. And I appreciate that.

I do need to say that despite appearances to the contrary, I don't air all my dirty laundry out here. So without doing into detail, yes we have been engaged a long time. But there are people that mature early, and there are people that don't. Both John and I are late bloomers. You guys have mentioned putting on my big girl pants. I fully agree with you. I need to stand up to my family and make this happen. And you are right, John is fed up with the wedding planning drama of it all. And I don't blame him.

However, there have been problems internal to our relationship, things about John that he needed to grow up about, to change in these years together. John has MANY postives. But he has a couple of serious negatives that made me question his commitment to our lives together over the last four years. At one point his own uncle told me to walk away. But I didn't because I love him too much, and had faith in hom. So, while my family has been a continuing source of concern, we were busy working on our relationship, working through our problems, and growing up... weathering bumps together. And John knows that.

So while I regret a lot of the problems our (cause his family has contributed a bit) families have caused, I can honestly say that I wasn't REALLY ready to marry him till about a year ago, and he wasn't truly committed to doing everything to make this worth until either in terms of some financial issues. There have been a lot of sh** or get off the pot moments for both of us. And we got through them. And we'll get through this.

Because I have a backbone. And I will learn to assert it with my family. Which I know is easy to say. But, hard to practice. I will talk to John tonight, and we'll get through this too. Because we have faith in one another, and in our relationship. And we are ready to MAKE this happen.

With a wedding by the end of this year. Even if it is at city hall or in Mexico, or Vegas.

 

[isaku5]

Date: 1/21/2008 10:21:58 PM
Author: Gypsy
Ok.

Need to re-read, cause I know it''s coming from the heart from both of you. And I appreciate that.

I do need to say that despite appearances to the contrary, I don''t air all my dirty laundry out here. So without doing into detail, yes we have been engaged a long time. But there are people that mature early, and there are people that don''t. Both John and I are late bloomers. You guys have mentioned putting on my big girl pants. I fully agree with you. I need to stand up to my family and make this happen. And you are right, John is fed up with the wedding planning drama of it all. And I don''t blame him.

However, there have been problems internal to our relationship, things about John that he needed to grow up about, to change in these years together. John has MANY postives. But he has a couple of serious negatives that made me question his commitment to our lives together over the last four years. At one point his own uncle told me to walk away. But I didn''t because I love him too much, and had faith in hom. So, while my family has been a continuing source of concern, we were busy working on our relationship, working through our problems, and growing up... weathering bumps together. And John knows that.

So while I regret a lot of the problems our (cause his family has contributed a bit) families have caused, I can honestly say that I wasn''t REALLY ready to marry him till about a year ago, and he wasn''t truly committed to doing everything to make this worth until either in terms of some financial issues. There have been a lot of sh** or get off the pot moments for both of us. And we got through them. And we''ll get through this.

Because I have a backbone. And I will learn to assert it with my family. Which I know is easy to say. But, hard to practice. I will talk to John tonight, and we''ll get through this too. Because we have faith in one another, and in our relationship. And we are ready to MAKE this happen.

With a wedding by the end of this year. Even if it is at city hall or in Mexico, or Vegas.

YES! YES! YES! You know we''ll hold you to "wedding by the end of this year"!!!!

 

[Harleigh]

Good for you, Gypsy. I know all of us here just want you to be happy!

 

[aljdewey]

Gypsy, I KNOW you don't air all your dirty laundry out here, sweetie. Totally respect that, too, by the way. Thjs isn't about judging you at all; this is about wanting the best for you and wishing so ferverently for your happiness.

I wrote out that whole previous post on the last page....and then nearly didn't post it. I worried it wouldn't convey the caring and the genuine sincerity I feel in wanting the best for you when the words look cold on the page. There's a *huge* part of me that would like to just get on MY broom, fly out to your corner, and whip the details into shape for you to help make things easier....but that wouldn't work. You have to want it enough to do it yourself.

It's funny, because you said something that crossed my mind, but that I didn't want to say because I was afraid it wouldn't come out right. I've wondered to myself if the reason this wedding hasn't come off is because you don't really want it to....which is why there's always something getting in the way.

I've felt that undercurrent of reluctance on your part, and I guess that's the vibe I've been picking up on....that you weren't really ready, so it was convenient to let small things become big obstacles so you wouldn't have to act.

You mentioned questioning his commitment, but maybe he's questioning yours too. In order to have someone commit to you and put you first, you have to be willing to do likewise...to commit to him and to put him (and yourself) first. Not to put him 'only', mind you.....of course you have to work at relationships with others, too....but to put him first.

My dear......I don't want you to get married this year just because others think you should. I don't want you to do it to prove anything to anyone. I want you to get married because you *want* to.

I don't care about appearances. I care about *you*.

I want you to be happy.
I want you to feel the quiet surety of standing next to the man you *KNOW* is the right one for you and feeling the confidence to embrace a permanent life together with him.
I want you to have the wedding that you envision.
I want you to trust in John enough to be true to what you both want, and to have the strength to let everyone else find their own way to come to acceptance with your choices.

I want you to be happy.

 

[surfgirl]

Date: 1/21/2008 10:21:58 PM
Author: Gypsy
Ok.


Need to re-read, cause I know it''s coming from the heart from both of you. And I appreciate that.


I do need to say that despite appearances to the contrary, I don''t air all my dirty laundry out here. So without doing into detail, yes we have been engaged a long time. But there are people that mature early, and there are people that don''t. Both John and I are late bloomers. You guys have mentioned putting on my big girl pants. I fully agree with you. I need to stand up to my family and make this happen. And you are right, John is fed up with the wedding planning drama of it all. And I don''t blame him.


However, there have been problems internal to our relationship, things about John that he needed to grow up about, to change in these years together. John has MANY postives. But he has a couple of serious negatives that made me question his commitment to our lives together over the last four years. At one point his own uncle told me to walk away. But I didn''t because I love him too much, and had faith in hom. So, while my family has been a continuing source of concern, we were busy working on our relationship, working through our problems, and growing up... weathering bumps together. And John knows that.


So while I regret a lot of the problems our (cause his family has contributed a bit) families have caused, I can honestly say that I wasn''t REALLY ready to marry him till about a year ago, and he wasn''t truly committed to doing everything to make this worth until either in terms of some financial issues. There have been a lot of sh** or get off the pot moments for both of us. And we got through them. And we''ll get through this.


Because I have a backbone. And I will learn to assert it with my family. Which I know is easy to say. But, hard to practice. I will talk to John tonight, and we''ll get through this too. Because we have faith in one another, and in our relationship. And we are ready to MAKE this happen.


With a wedding by the end of this year. Even if it is at city hall or in Mexico, or Vegas.

Thanks for being able to read my post with perspective...You know, your comments above are really interesting because I was going to say that sometimes it almost seems like you dont really want this wedding to happen but then I read your post and I realize that there are things going on behind the scenes that have contributed to the delays perhaps being a good thing...in some ways...but the stress that comes through in your posts regarding your wedding and planning it out just doesn''t feel joyful to me, you know? Maybe I''m misreading you, and god knows I eloped so I wouldn''t have to deal with wedding stress so perhaps it''s unavoidable...but I haven''t gotten the impression you are really enjoying the process. Perhaps it''s the family issues. Or perhaps you really dont want a dog and pony show, so to speak...Of course you should only get married when you both are ready, but in the long run, I guess what I''m ultimately saying is that I hope you get married in the way that makes YOU most happy. And if it''s not the traditional family wedding, then so be it. As long as you have a wedding that you want, and not that you feel obligated to have, that''s really all that matters.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 1/22/2008 12:21:23 AM
Author: aljdewey
I care about *you*.


I want you to be happy.

I want you to feel the quiet surety of standing next to the man you *KNOW* is the right one for you and feeling the confidence to embrace a permanent life together with him.

I want you to have the wedding that you envision.

I want you to trust in John enough to be true to what you both want, and to have the strength to let everyone else find their own way to come to acceptance with your choices.


I want you to be happy.

Oh honey. I know where it comes from. It''s true that we are on the net. But I know your heart when I read your posts. Yours, Surfgirls, and Isabels and well, everyone who has replied in the same vein.

That''s what I''ve been waiting for too. If you have felt reluctance it''s because there was reluctance.

I was raised to hate men, never trust them, and expecting that if I ever did get married I would divorce. When I thought of a good father for my children I defined a good father as someone that WHEN we got divorced wouldn''t abandon his children. My mother spoiled me rotten, and as long as I got high grades and did well in school (which I did) I had no responsibilities. I can''t tell you how ingrained my hated and mistrust of men was in me. Since I was 2 it was instilled in me when I watched my father try to kill my mother.

John was raised in... Leave it to Beaver. His grandparents feel in love in the their teens and were in love until they died three years apart from one another. His parents and home life were like a fictional storybook for me with a big monster of cancer in it (his father died of cancer). But everything else was ''just so.'' He just assumed that like his parents and grandparents he would meet the right woman, and everything would fall into place.

We we met and fell in love. But I had to learn how to trust him REALLY AND TRULY trust him, and commit myself to him fully, and to love him with his flaws. And to understand that marriage can be and should be forever. This took me a LONG time. When I said yes to the ring, I was saying yes to ... hope. But not to the reality of him and marriage. The day my re-set hit my finger... I was saying yes to the package.

He had to learn that just because you meet the right person that doesn''t mean that it all falls into place. That you REALLY have to work at it, not the loving and supporting, that''s always come naturally to him (I had to learn that)but LIFE. That you can''t go along expecting things to work out because you want them to. That you have to work at it, and hard, and struggle for it, and compromise. These are not things John was really prepared for. Except for anything to do with loving me, if the going got tough, John got going. But he never wavered with me, so I knew he had it in him. He just needed the time to find it and apply it to other aspects of life.

We met when I was 24 and he was 26.
I''m 32. It really has taken this long for us BOTH to learn what we needed to, and we still have so much to learn. But now we both know that we have the foundation there, beneath us and that we can support each other and learn the rest together.
And until I could trust that we BOTH had learned the above, I didn''t feel right pledging to love honor and support him all of my life.

And I so wanted to have that quiet assurance that we could and would be able to work through things together, as a unit. That we could appreciate the highs and the lows of being together for the rest of our lives. And that we had a STRONG foundation, and unshakable one so that when we stood before our friends and family and God, I could look them in the eye and KNOW I was on the right path.

We''re late bloomers. But we are both ready now.

So if there is no joy Surfgirl, its because I WANT the planning to be over with already. Because I WANT TO BE HIS WIFE NOW. But, I really believe that the last 8.5 years of making it work deserve a CELEBRATION. And I want to honor US by making sure we have an EVENT to remember and with as few regrets as possible.

So I am looking forward to the marriage. And the wedding. But the planning. No, I''m not enjoying it. And if I had the money, I''d dump it in someone''s lap and just show up. LOL.

 

[surfgirl]

Thank you for explaining that all to me/us...I appreciate that you took the time to explain it more and I get you more now that I have more of an understanding of why all the delays...I also understand your desire to celebrate your marriage after all it took to get where you are today...so, that said, can you scale back anything on the wedding so that you can afford that wedding planner? So that you can take a breath and relax and enjoy the days, weeks, months leading up to this celebration? To me, that would be something worth investing in, if it allows you breathing room and room to enjoy! Just a thought...

 

[Gypsy]

You guys are well, a sort of family for me. So, if explaning helps you understand I will. I know you care, so it's not REALLY that hard. A little, as it is cyber space and it's also a lot of things I don't care to talk about (dad's abuse of mom, fact that I was raped just before I met John). Those aren't things that are easy to admit to. But well, it's better than you all thinking I'm nuts.

I'm scaling back to afford a day of coordinator I recently started talking to. I don't want ANYTHING to worry my that day. The rest, it's a PITA but it's FAIRLY easy. Family is the hardest part, honestly. And anyone crazy enough to take them on would cost the earth.

As for the planning. I'm leaning heavily toward Wente cause they do so much there. I have to pick entrees (I'm doing a duet cause I don't want to deal with people's entree choices and the response cards) or I'm doing a Sunday brunch (again no entree choices). They do the cake there. We've already picked 4 to try, we'll try them two months out and pick one. They do all the ceremony set up and break down and all of that. The place is beautiful enough not to need ceremony decor and they provide an arch.

I've picked out my flowers, and on mom's encouragement am just going to probably have the florist do them all (I was going to do the reception flowers)

I'm only having one attendant cause I don't want BM drama or dress drama. I told her she can pick a gold, black, brown, sagey green, or orange dress and as long as she feels beautiful in it and it's tea length I don't care.

We had booked a photographer a few years back, and she still has out deposit that she said she'd honor if we rebooked. The minute I'm ready to book I'm calling her. If she's not avialable I have to alternatives picked out.

The DJ will be left COMPLETELY up to John. He wanted one, he can pick one.

I have my dress, and need to deal with losing weight and alterations. John's in charge of his and his GM's attire.

So... most of it is done ish.

The hardest 'choice' might be the invites. LOL.

 

[door knob solitaire]

Gyp...I don''t have a pretty wedding photo

...nothing in a frame

. No memories of a little red scooter to fondly remember the important people who love me

.

So I am still part of your fairy tale club. I don''t want you to regret a blank frame. Yes I have photo in a nice outfit on the day...after the surprise elopement...and that was perfect for us at the time...but when I look at GingerBCookie and Jcrows magazine perfect wedding photos I just weep-for something I can''t have. (we are talking about the little princess in me...not the grown up practical woman who is OK with it...my poor little princess is getting much neglected with practicality.)

My lack of experience in this issue really voids my right to post here, (but that never stopped me before

) I wanted to assure you, everyone planning a wedding is going through the same issues you are. Different scales, but grasps at all possible ideas and ways to handle it. Honey, you will find your footing. These posts here are simply caring hearts at a distance trying everything we can to help get you out of the decision bunkers. I still encourage you not to hunker down, but step out into the firing squad and take over the reigns.

I was struggling with my stupid haircut

hair today...and was thinking of your struggle (as I was struggling) and I thought of something you might be able to use to make your point;

You recall John Kennedy Jr and His beautiful wife Carolyn? Wedding Day Of all the people in the world...can you imagine the guest list for THAT wedding

. There were heads of state, and heads of countries, heads of newspapers and magazines, the congress, the senate, heck the Warren committee, then former Presidents, the current President, and we haven''t even started with their family members...when you have a family compound...you got numbers!! Well, you know what they did? A small intimate private secretive small chapel wedding. Only 40 of their closest friends and family were in attendance. Read There was no red scooter, but I assure you if Carolyn had been lucky enough to have one, it would have been there come heck or highwater. Moral....they got want THEY wanted. Putting aside the tragic ending to their lives, (God rest their souls), the point is second cousins and twice removed coped just fine.

Invitations can always be given out for a great party afterwards...it doesn''t have to be a huge fairytale affair...I have been to casual reception picnics that were more memorable than stuffy formal receptions. if you want to share with these people there are ways of doing it. A video of your ceremony and photo album for those to enjoy...can be available.

Well, I will quit yakking...(just for the time being

) I just hope you headache is subsiding. You know we all

you!

 

[door knob solitaire]

My novel and your post crossed, you didn''t need it afterall....yeah!!!

love ya.

 

[Gypsy]

Update:

Mom had a "discussion" with Step Dad Monday and Tuesday Nights and basically told him that there's no way that his neices and nephews are invited. YAY! She to go ahead and book a venue the size we wanted originally so that it solidifies the number of people invited as smaller.

She said she wanted all of Stepdad's negative feelings to be toward her, and not me. So she told him that he was being ridiculous to invite a bunch people I have no relationship with.

My mom is being really great (not that I'm in la la land, I realize that the other shoe may drop any day now).

 

[Sparkalicious]

Gypsy - Glad things seem to be falling in place better ...

Just wanted to stop in to send some more encouragement your way.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 1/23/2008 1:43:29 PM
Author: Sparkalicious
Gypsy - Glad things seem to be falling in place better ...

Just wanted to stop in to send some more encouragement your way.

Thank you Sparkalicious! I hope they do. I''ll believe it if the Rivini Sells, my taxes come out profitable, and FI finds that additional and part time job ASAP.

 

[gingerBcookie]

yeaouch...sounds like quite a tangle...glad to see things are working themselves out!

 

[goldenstar]

It seems like everything is turning out great. I''m so happy and excited for you!

 

[Gypsy]

I''m happy too. It was a large messy tangle. Now avoided thank God.