I know I'm gonna shock many girls here but...

[monarch64]

I understood what you were saying to Junebug, Haven, I really did (I think I was about as clear as mud myself in my response to yours)! I am just being wordy and and am clearly in a "let's discuss" mood tonight!

Edited for clarity, haha.

 

[Haven]

I understood what you were saying to Junebug, Haven, I really did (I think I was about as clear as mud myself in my response to yours)! I am just being wordy and and am clearly in a "let's discuss" mood tonight!

Edited for clarity, haha.

As am I, apparently!

 

[chemgirl]

Why does France keep coming up? Stici, you're not French are you? You're Canadian. You stated that this person personally brought you your first ever gift from a client of yours.

http://www.fleuristedorchester.com/

Quebec, Canada

So how to Canadians wear their nails?

ETA: I am fully aware that Quebec is heavily French in culture and the primary language is French, but it is still owned by Canada which makes Staci a Canadian

Woooooaah nelly.

I think you're underestimating the division between "Canadian" and "French-Canadian". When I lived in Montreal, lumping in Franocphones with Anglophones was a DIRE insult. I've had people spit on me as I walked by them on the street when they heard me speaking with an Anglo accent.

They consider themselves to be a completely different culture and society, to the point where Separation has been something they have been striving for generation after generation. They don't want to be "owned" by Canada and they do not identify themselves as "Canadian". That's like saying that Tibetans are Chinese because they are "owned" by China.

Also, this is totally based on my own experiences living in a few places in PQ, but French-Canadians are generally very blunt and translations tend to be downright offensive unless they are very fluent in English. I cannot count the number of times I have been in a situation where what they said was horribly rude, but what they meant was just blunt- garbled in translation. Think of it as a naturally 'rough' way of speaking - I helped a girl from Gaspe learn English when we lived together in Ontario, and I constantly had to find 'softer' ways of saying what she was trying to say, because she was pissing off everyone she talked to.

I had a long explanation written out, but I realized it was off topic and probably a bit offensive.

So I'll shorten it to say that although Quebec is very different from the rest of Canada, I have never had negative experiences due to my being an anglophone so I am surprised and saddened by how you were treated. Seperatism has been declining in popularity recently and maybe this is why I had a different experience when I lived there.

I agree that a language barrier is partially to blame here.

 

[dragonfly411]

You know, it gets really old when people call shared opinions a "lynch mob". Again, don't like it, don't post! Those that keep saying stuff like that are intentionally trying to cause problems, whereas the majority of us (at least the first few pages, before the thread took a turn) just AGREED WITH EACH OTHER.

I guess that's a no-no, too. Whatever. stci didn't GBCPS, she will be back. And she will offend somebody again. It's what she does, and this is NOT the first time.

You know, isn't that exactly what STCI said at the beginning of the thread when she expressed her opinion?

I agree, the personal attacks were taken far too far. Some of you are guilty of posting rude comments, dissenting opinions etc. No one attacks you like that.

 

[MonkeyPie]

You know, it gets really old when people call shared opinions a "lynch mob". Again, don't like it, don't post! Those that keep saying stuff like that are intentionally trying to cause problems, whereas the majority of us (at least the first few pages, before the thread took a turn) just AGREED WITH EACH OTHER.

I guess that's a no-no, too. Whatever. stci didn't GBCPS, she will be back. And she will offend somebody again. It's what she does, and this is NOT the first time.

You know, isn't that exactly what STCI said at the beginning of the thread when she expressed her opinion?

I agree, the personal attacks were taken far too far. Some of you are guilty of posting rude comments, dissenting opinions etc. No one attacks you like that.

Actually, NO. She is fully within her rights to dislike a look of a certain nail, but she expressed it rudely by calling it American (assuming that all of us here with fake nails do it like that), and then by telling us she didn't give a sh*t if we disliked her opinion. After that, we stopped being nice.

And yeah, actually, people HAVE attacked me like that. Let's not go there.

 

[dragonfly411]

You know, it gets really old when people call shared opinions a "lynch mob". Again, don't like it, don't post! Those that keep saying stuff like that are intentionally trying to cause problems, whereas the majority of us (at least the first few pages, before the thread took a turn) just AGREED WITH EACH OTHER.

I guess that's a no-no, too. Whatever. stci didn't GBCPS, she will be back. And she will offend somebody again. It's what she does, and this is NOT the first time.

You know, isn't that exactly what STCI said at the beginning of the thread when she expressed her opinion?

I agree, the personal attacks were taken far too far. Some of you are guilty of posting rude comments, dissenting opinions etc. No one attacks you like that.

Actually, NO. She is fully within her rights to dislike a look of a certain nail, but she expressed it rudely by calling it American (assuming that all of us here with fake nails do it like that), and then by telling us she didn't give a sh*t if we disliked her opinion. After that, we stopped being nice.

And yeah, actually, people HAVE attacked me like that. Let's not go there.

Right and she also said, if you don't like it you don't have to post here. Which was then ignored, but now you want to preach the don't like it don't post?? REALLY?


ETA - I meant you as a generalization of some folks on here, not you personally Monkey so I apologize for the misunderstanding. I've been attacked personally on here as well waaaay in the past and it isn't pleasant. I didn't mean to imply one specific person.

 

[Circe]

I agree, the personal attacks were taken far too far. Some of you are guilty of posting rude comments, dissenting opinions etc. No one attacks you like that.

Dragonfly, I don't think I understand your last point. If you disagree with someone, by definition, yours is a dissenting opinion. Are you saying that if you see someone using a flat-out wrong statement as the premise for their argument, you should just ... walk along and whistle "Dixie?" I mean, I know it's the Internet, and somebody is always wrong on the Internet, but that sort of feels like contributing to the misinformation. That's how the one about Al Gore inventing the Internet got started ....

 

[kama_s]

This is pretty much just me beating the long dead horse, but I just wanted to add that most people politely commented on stci coming off as being aggressive in her first post. If anyone here on PS were told that they were being offensive, one would assume the person guilty of being offensive would apologize and explain their stance. However, stci did not care how she came across and retorted that if people were offended, it wasn't her problem. Only at this point did other posters become more vocal about her attitude.

TL;DR: if you are rude to others, don't whine when people are rude back at you. Casting stones on glass house and all that jazz.

And FYI to Black Jade: I have several friends from Congo, Senegal, Cote d'Ivoire, France and Quebec - and while ALL of them generally tend to speak their mind and most have a minimal grasp of English - NONE of them are rude the way stci is. So this is NOT a language barrier, it's a personality barrier.

 

[NOYFB]

Ok, I'm out of popcorn, so wanted to put my $.02 in. I don't wear false nails, as I play bass and therefore need to keep my nails trimmed. I have, however, gotten a gel overlay manicure for special occasions, such as my 10 year anniversary trip when I knew I'd be getting my new ring, and while I thought it was a nice manicure (not "ugly" by any stretch of the imagination, see the photo attached), it was a royal pain in the butt to remove when I wanted to be done with it.



I was offended by stci's tone as well, especially the "And???" comment and the one about it being "our problem" if we didn't like her opinion. I can understand why people got defensive, but I don't think we created a "lynch mob" mentality, either. She clearly admitted she knew what she was saying was rude, and said it anyway. What is that old saying "Don't dish it out if you can't take it!"? She was expecting negative feedback and then when she got it she was pissy and did a GBCP on us. Seriously...she needs to grow a set.

Ok, back to make some more

 

[lbbaber]

I agree, the personal attacks were taken far too far. Some of you are guilty of posting rude comments, dissenting opinions etc. No one attacks you like that.

Dragonfly, I don't think I understand your last point. If you disagree with someone, by definition, yours is a dissenting opinion. Are you saying that if you see someone using a flat-out wrong statement as the premise for their argument, you should just ... walk along and whistle "Dixie?" I mean, I know it's the Internet, and somebody is always wrong on the Internet, but that sort of feels like contributing to the misinformation. That's how the one about Al Gore inventing the Internet got started ....

So, we are only aloud to post IF we agree with the OP (no matter how obviously wrong the "question" is)....or if it is wrong only the first 5 responders are allowed to put in their 2cents .....

If someone only wants to hear pages and pages of pleasantries, then they should stay in SMTB. If you want on honest representation of how the community feels about a topic, then ask away. Just don't expect it to be a "pleasent" experience when you start off calling a specific group of people "ugly".

 

[House Cat]

Oh, no! I didn't mean THAT in my response to Junebug. Junebug seemed to say (at least, this is how I interpreted it) that she didn't want the kind of negativity in her life that she perceived in the trend thread and in this thread. My response is that we should steer clear of threads that bring things that we don't want into our lives. In other words, I don't think I could appropriately contribute anything to a thread that just made me feel awful and thus I'd have nothing constructive (agreement, disagreement, different perspective, etc. to share), so I would steer clear of it. I don't mean dissenting opinions shouldn't be shared, heck, I do a whole lot of sharing dissenting opinions around here and IRL.

I think I'm being clear as mud, as usual.

I really value dissenting opinions, and I certainly don't mean to say that they shouldn't be shared. I also value maintaining my own personal happiness, and I wouldn't click on a thread with a topic that was going to threaten it, which was what I was trying to say to Junebug. She seemed to be really upset about the negativity she felt she was exposed to in those threads, and if I had that reaction I would want no part of the threads at all.

It IS possible to express a different opinion while maintaining the feelings of the other group of people...no?

I think the other problem is that stci has cited her language barrier as the reason for lack of tact and made a commitment to try and be more gentle. On this thread, she's actually doing the opposite. That's going to get people's hackles up. For myself, I won't be clicking on anymore of her threads. I can see that she likes to create this sort of ... thing. I can also see that we all like to participate?

 

[MonkeyPie]

You know, it gets really old when people call shared opinions a "lynch mob". Again, don't like it, don't post! Those that keep saying stuff like that are intentionally trying to cause problems, whereas the majority of us (at least the first few pages, before the thread took a turn) just AGREED WITH EACH OTHER.

I guess that's a no-no, too. Whatever. stci didn't GBCPS, she will be back. And she will offend somebody again. It's what she does, and this is NOT the first time.

You know, isn't that exactly what STCI said at the beginning of the thread when she expressed her opinion?

I agree, the personal attacks were taken far too far. Some of you are guilty of posting rude comments, dissenting opinions etc. No one attacks you like that.

Actually, NO. She is fully within her rights to dislike a look of a certain nail, but she expressed it rudely by calling it American (assuming that all of us here with fake nails do it like that), and then by telling us she didn't give a sh*t if we disliked her opinion. After that, we stopped being nice.

And yeah, actually, people HAVE attacked me like that. Let's not go there.

Right and she also said, if you don't like it you don't have to post here. Which was then ignored, but now you want to preach the don't like it don't post?? REALLY?

ETA - I meant you as a generalization of some folks on here, not you personally Monkey so I apologize for the misunderstanding. I've been attacked personally on here as well waaaay in the past and it isn't pleasant. I didn't mean to imply one specific person.

That's not quite what I meant, but I can see I contradicted myself trying to make myself understood, so for that I apologize. This thread is getting to me, because it's doing the same thing that every thread with disagreements does. When more than a handful of people disagree with the OP, there is a counter-group that comes in to tell us we are wrong. It's frustrating when the OP was CLEARLY being rude, and I just don't get all the devil's advocates.

 

[Haven]

Oh, no! I didn't mean THAT in my response to Junebug. Junebug seemed to say (at least, this is how I interpreted it) that she didn't want the kind of negativity in her life that she perceived in the trend thread and in this thread. My response is that we should steer clear of threads that bring things that we don't want into our lives. In other words, I don't think I could appropriately contribute anything to a thread that just made me feel awful and thus I'd have nothing constructive (agreement, disagreement, different perspective, etc. to share), so I would steer clear of it. I don't mean dissenting opinions shouldn't be shared, heck, I do a whole lot of sharing dissenting opinions around here and IRL.

I think I'm being clear as mud, as usual.

I really value dissenting opinions, and I certainly don't mean to say that they shouldn't be shared. I also value maintaining my own personal happiness, and I wouldn't click on a thread with a topic that was going to threaten it, which was what I was trying to say to Junebug. She seemed to be really upset about the negativity she felt she was exposed to in those threads, and if I had that reaction I would want no part of the threads at all.

It IS possible to express a different opinion while maintaining the feelings of the other group of people...no?

I think the other problem is that stci has cited her language barrier as the reason for lack of tact and made a commitment to try and be more gentle. On this thread, she's actually doing the opposite. That's going to get people's hackles up. For myself, I won't be clicking on anymore of her threads. I can see that she likes to create this sort of ... thing. I can also see that we all like to participate?

If you're asking whether it IS possible to express a different opinion in a tactful manner, then my answer is yes, and I believe we should try our best to do just that.

If you're asking whether any individual has it in her power to maintain the feelings of others, my answer is no because none of us has control over anyone else's feelings. It seems apparent that posters on here are hurt or offended by very different things, and as someone who is not hurt or offended by some things how on earth am I supposed to be able to predict whether things that seem benign to me are going to hurt others? I don't think that's possible. (I imagine this is true for everyone.)

I think it's valuable for someone who was hurt to share that with the OP. I don't see any value, however, in repeatedly coming back to a thread that seriously offends you to keep on posting the same thing when it's clear that the OP isn't willing or able to give you whatever it is you're looking for. (An apology? A retraction? I don't know what people are hoping to get out of Stci, but I do know that it doesn't seem like she's going to provide it.)

Dissenting opinions are great, and important, and vital for any good discussion. But those who are offended seem reluctant to accept the fact that a) Stci's words are not offensive to *everyone* (this is evidence by the fact that people persist in responding to any post that says "I wasn't offended" with "But look at what she wrote! Her word choice is extremely offensive!" and b) Stci isn't going to see the light and give them whatever it is they're hoping for.

I have stated that I can understand why others are offended, but that this thread doesn't offend ME, yet I have yet to see anyone who is on the defensive admit that perhaps Stci's words are not universally offensive. It seems like people are just restating their *own* opinions in the hope that everyone will be converted into their own way of thinking. That's not going to happen, and it's disappointing that some are not able to address the fact that their reaction is not the ONLY acceptable reaction.

I'm also just tiring of the oversensitivity on PS in general. It really is the death of a good discussion, if you ask me, because it turns threads away from discussions about *ideas* and into discussions about *themselves or others.*

ETA:
As an American, my first thought in response to this thread was "Wow. I can't believe this is part of the image we project to outsiders, this is a problem." And as someone who cares about America, my second thought was "This is a good opportunity to set the record straight."

However, I came to this thread too late, and the defensiveness had already started and turned this thread NOT into an opportunity to share some real insights into America, but into a battle of Stci vs. the Americans. I'm sad to say that I think we further soured her (and anyone else's who is reading this thread) opinion of our country. And how amusing it is to do that as so many who came in here guns blazing were doing so under the premise that they are Americans and they are offended that anyone could think such a horrible thing about us. Well, case in point.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="Haven|1305563267|

I'm also just tiring of the oversensitivity on PS in general. It really is the death of a good discussion, if you ask me, because it turns threads away from discussions about *ideas* and into discussions about *themselves or others.*[/quote]
yup i have thick skins...

 

[TravelingGal]

I'm also just tiring of the oversensitivity on PS in general. It really is the death of a good discussion, if you ask me, because it turns threads away from discussions about *ideas* and into discussions about *themselves or others.*

ETA:
As an American, my first thought in response to this thread was "Wow. I can't believe this is part of the image we project to outsiders, this is a problem." And as someone who cares about America, my second thought was "This is a good opportunity to set the record straight."

However, I came to this thread too late, and the defensiveness had already started and turned this thread NOT into an opportunity to share some real insights into America, but into a battle of Stci vs. the Americans. I'm sad to say that I think we further soured her (and anyone else's who is reading this thread) opinion of our country. And how amusing it is to do that as so many who came in here guns blazing were doing so under the premise that they are Americans and they are offended that anyone could think such a horrible thing about us. Well, case in point.

Haven, totally agree. I felt kind of like this when I made a very (unclear ) point on the Osama Bin Laden thread a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Circe]

....
ETA:
As an American, my first thought in response to this thread was "Wow. I can't believe this is part of the image we project to outsiders, this is a problem." And as someone who cares about America, my second thought was "This is a good opportunity to set the record straight."

However, I came to this thread too late, and the defensiveness had already started and turned this thread NOT into an opportunity to share some real insights into America, but into a battle of Stci vs. the Americans. I'm sad to say that I think we further soured her (and anyone else's who is reading this thread) opinion of our country. And how amusing it is to do that as so many who came in here guns blazing were doing so under the premise that they are Americans and they are offended that anyone could think such a horrible thing about us. Well, case in point.

I think there's a perception issue I'm missing here - are American's seen as being more defensive of their image than other nations, somehow? Because, based on my admittedly limited experience, I've got to tell you, if you go onto a message board full of Russians and ask them why they all dress like escorts, you're going to be torn a new one: if you visit a Swedish forum and inquire as to why they're all promiscuous heathens, they're going to jeer you to death; etc., etc., etc. I don't think I know of a single group that's willing to accept bizarre foreign stereotypes and generalizations, many of which might have a grain of truth in them, many of which might be based on "the image [they] project to outsiders" ... and which are all, nevertheless, stereotypes, limited, two-dimensional images that are going to skew your argument badly if you use them as your starting point in toto.

I think people tried to politely explain how the generalization was a mistake and how the phrasing was basically the equivalent of shooting yourself in the foot: for whatever reason, it didn't work. (I know, the "whatever reason" is the crux of the problem - but thus far, nobody has managed to successfully play armchair psychologist, and Stci ain't telling.) As for the oversensitivity?

Look, I come from a blunt culture myself. And I've gotta tell you, part of knowing you can be blunt is expecting that you're going to get equal bluntness back. You can't have it both ways: you can't be rude to other people and expect them to treat you with deference. On PS, we get into these "feeeeeeeeeeelings" discussions all the time because, at the end of the day, the dominant culture of the board isn'[t a blunt culture. Is there a way to combat that? Maybe, but whenever we try, we wind up just having it all. Over. Again. Best way I can think of to combat it is to stay on-topic -perhaps we can introduce a "Derail!" icon and use it in the opposite of the way we use pie?

P.S. - You said, "And how amusing it is to do that as so many who came in here guns blazing were doing so under the premise that they are Americans and they are offended that anyone could think such a horrible thing about us." Is one horrible thing somehow synechdoche for a bunch of completely different horrible things? A thread asking, "Are Americans insular and aggressive?" might be interesting, but while this thread might demonstrate that ... it doesn't prove any of Stci's original points. Are we really using "Americans are sorta tacky, manicure-wise" as an umbrella for all our egregious sins?

 

[dragonfly411]

I agree, the personal attacks were taken far too far. Some of you are guilty of posting rude comments, dissenting opinions etc. No one attacks you like that.

Dragonfly, I don't think I understand your last point. If you disagree with someone, by definition, yours is a dissenting opinion. Are you saying that if you see someone using a flat-out wrong statement as the premise for their argument, you should just ... walk along and whistle "Dixie?" I mean, I know it's the Internet, and somebody is always wrong on the Internet, but that sort of feels like contributing to the misinformation. That's how the one about Al Gore inventing the Internet got started ....

I think my main point is that it was ok when everyone was remaining impersonal in disagreeing, and trying to point out where the opinions on nails differed, but page after page of attacking OP was a bit ridiculous, and people post opinions that aren't of the norm, or that may not be liked, without being attacked by one another quite often, but there are times when everyone jumps on the "You are wrong and we're going to prove it even if we have to be ugly about it" band wagon and it really is uncalled for. I understand that she came back and posted a comment that rather blew everyone out of the water, but she also made the point of saying that if others didn't like the thread they didn't have to read or post... but everyone continued to jump down her throat... and then a poster came back and used the same argument. I just think the attacks went overboard here. Hope that makes sense and sorry if I was confusing!!!

As to nails, I've worn acrylics. I do think there are some kinds that look tacky and some that look nice. You just have to find someone who does the right kind of job.

 

[galeteia]

ETA:
As an American, my first thought in response to this thread was "Wow. I can't believe this is part of the image we project to outsiders, this is a problem." And as someone who cares about America, my second thought was "This is a good opportunity to set the record straight."

However, I came to this thread too late, and the defensiveness had already started and turned this thread NOT into an opportunity to share some real insights into America, but into a battle of Stci vs. the Americans. I'm sad to say that I think we further soured her (and anyone else's who is reading this thread) opinion of our country. And how amusing it is to do that as so many who came in here guns blazing were doing so under the premise that they are Americans and they are offended that anyone could think such a horrible thing about us. Well, case in point.

Nicely said. I couldn't figure out how to express this without having aforementioned blazing guns turned on me.

 

[AmeliaG]

When more than a handful of people disagree with the OP, there is a counter-group that comes in to tell us we are wrong. It's frustrating when the OP was CLEARLY being rude, and I just don't get all the devil's advocates.

I may regret posting in this thread; I've avoided it until now but let me try.

When I saw the thread, I knew that stci could be rude and some of her questions can come from left field so I ignored it. When it jumped several pages, yeah I got curious.

stci was rude. No surprise there. What I was surprised at were the pages and pages of pretty equally (and sometimes even more) rude opposing posts by members who are usually quite helpful and well-mannered elsewhere in the forum. By the time I saw the thread, stci's admittedly very rude posts got lost in the sheer volume of highly emotionally charged opposing posts. The irony of so many posts being openly rude as a way to tell stci that she'd better watch how she comes across was not lost on me and it was a bit unsettling. It was a good point, the way you come across is important but the way these posts came across seemed to defeat the very point they were trying to get across.

Kenny had a good point, I thought, in that one or two sharp retorts is one thing but it is a conceivable reaction that 8 pages is a bit of overkill. In short, stci didn't surprise me. I knew her history before I opened the thread. I admit I was disappointed in some other posts because they came from members I didn't expect them to. I know its this thread and the nature of the Internet being a quick communication medium and that the other members are actually quite nice elsewhere but its sad all the same.

As to why I posted in this thread? Well, I tried not to but here again, its the nature of the Internet. Its really hard to ignore a thread that grows so rapidly. That little flame icon is too enticing; everyone wants to get into a real lively conversation. I think that is a large part why some other members posted in the thread and here is where kenny's reference to a mob is understandable. Internet forums are an extremely rapid form of communication and emotions can get contagious even over the Internet. Did stci's posts alone cause the sheer number of posts and the amount of emotionally charged language in the thread? I have my doubts.

This community is overall very welcoming and I'm very happy to be a member. This thread, I think, is an exception to the way this community really operates and I'm very glad for it.

Now I'll put on my flame suit.

 

[Black Jade]

I just wanted to pop in one last time to say, isn't it interesting that it's only people who were in this thread from the beginning are having trouble seeing the --well, let's call it the dogs going after a bone thing, since I accept Circe's explanation of her feelings about words.
While unanimously (if' it's not literally unanimous, it's close) those who read the thread after it had been going on awhile (of whom I am one) whatever their opinion of stci, faux nails, French or Francophone, language differences and anti-American stereotypes (and these opinions really vary) seem to agree that it turned into a mob attack at a certain point. I don't think anybody is going to convince anybody of anything else at this point and basically, as far as I'm concerned, the horse is dead, no point in flogging anymore. However, to those of you who were in this from the beginning and are having trouble seeing what the 'outsiders' (us johnny-come-latelies) are saying (and nobody is suggesting net-nannying or killing the free interchange of ideas), maybe step back, wait a week or two, read the thing from post one and see how it seems to you then. I think you might be surprised and you might jsut agree that it was VERY untypical of Pricescope in a rather disturbing manner and that it was something that in the future we might like to be aware of and avoid.

 

[Ella]

This thread has had enough. Please remember insults are not welcome on the forum regardless of the reason.