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Date: 6/13/2009 6:37:19 PM
Author: stepcutgirl
I like that stone, but I think in a multi color I like the colors to be obviously different. I''m also interested in solid blue stones with the exception of that violet one I posted above...so maybe I''m open to vibrant violent stones as well.


Chrono, if that is the new cushion I saw in the video with the oec''s...holy moly!
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Yeah, WOW, just WOW!
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Date: 6/13/2009 5:05:20 PM
Author: Chrono
Ruby,

That colour is nice but appear rather dark in tone. I wonder what the lighting condition the picture was taken in.
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Yes, I'm also wondering about that... I don't know if color change sapphires tend to be a little bit darker than regular blue sapphires in certain light settings. If you look at the Cherryscore, the tone of that sapphire is rated as "excellent" at 4.6 (the highest being 5.0), which means "Open color vivid rich velvety tone," and the color rating is also rated as "excellent" at 4.4 (for reference, 4.5 means "A shade away from best of breed color rarely seen in this gem type").

ETA: The website also explains that "To describe a gem with optimal tonal characteristics, experienced dealers will typically use the phrases 'open color' or 'medium tone throughout the gem.'"
 
Their numbering system certainly describes it as a very fine quality sapphire. It would be interesting to see it in person.
 
So that would mean it''s not dark?
 
IceKid, SCG and Ruby,
Thanks for the compliment on the OMC. The video certainly gets the heart pounding, doesn''t it? I am expecting to receive it early next week.

TL,
Just for you, I''ll think about putting that spess up, although I might change my mind when I receive my OMC and drool all over it.
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Date: 6/13/2009 9:36:13 PM
Author: Chrono
IceKid, SCG and Ruby,

Thanks for the compliment on the OMC. The video certainly gets the heart pounding, doesn''t it? I am expecting to receive it early next week.


TL,

Just for you, I''ll think about putting that spess up, although I might change my mind when I receive my OMC and drool all over it.
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I''m not a diamond girl but those new old cuts Jon has are just
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If I were to get a colorless diamond of solitaire size, it would be an OEC or OMC. I like the chunky facets. Congrats on your diamond Chrono!
 
Date: 6/13/2009 10:16:47 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover
If I were to get a colorless diamond of solitaire size, it would be an OEC or OMC. I like the chunky facets. Congrats on your diamond Chrono!
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Ditto!
 
I have heard some positive reviews about Wildfish, but their grading seems a little misleading? Lightly included? They do include ''3rd party certification'', so I am assuming their grading lines up in the end?
 
Stepcutgirl,

Those bi-colored corundums are typical Winza material. Quite interesting. Not everybody likes them (I''m sure you''ve noticed it from the answers) but definitely unusual.
 
Date: 6/13/2009 11:28:38 AM
Author: RubyCharm
I think it''s worth a shot to call Richard at Cherrypicked. The Cherrypicked stones are gorgeous. And, in my personal opinion, they are not as overpriced as the Wildfish gems, because you''re paying for high quality selected gems (and the Cherrypicked score will tell you how they measure up to other gems of the same kind in terms of color, clarity, cut, etc.; which is very helpful when you''re not an expert in colored stones).

Besides, Richard has many gems in his vault that are not posted on the website (which he doesn''t update very often), so you could inquire about other alternatives. As for the two Cherrypicked colored change sapphires that I suggested before, you could ask him to send you more pictures in different light settings. That''s what I did when I worked with him, and he was happy to send me more pics. Richard also charges a very reasonable shipping fee in case you''d like to review the stones before you decide whether you''ll purchase anything at all (he''ll put an authorization hold on your credit card, but nothing will be charged until you complete the purchase). I spent a small fortune reviewing stones in person from different dealers, and I must say that Richard''s shipping charges were the least expensive among all of them. I was also interested in a stone from Ed''s website and exchanged emails with him for a while, but never got to review any of his stones because I didn''t want to make a bank deposit without even seeing the stone first!!! Besides, international shipping can be more of a hassle.

Another thing that I''d like you to keep in mind is that, a lot of times, pictures don''t do justice to the actual beauty of certain colored stones. Many times I was pleasantly surprised to receive stones that looked significantly more beautiful in real life than in pictures. So, don''t choose your engagement ring stone based on pictures alone, and don''t pick the first sapphire that you get to see in real life if you had never seen a fine sapphire before. I think you can do that with diamonds, but not with colored stones. Try to review at least two or three stones, if possible. I fell in love when I saw the first unheated & natural sapphire from the NSC (up to that point, I had only seen the commercial quality sapphires that you can find in mall jewelry stores and, believe me, ANY sapphire from the NSC looks MUCH MUCH MUCH better than those sapphires). But then, I realized I was dealing with stones that were in a whole other league. Anyway, no matter what you decide to do, keep us posted!
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RubyCharm, Wildfish MORE expensive than Cherrypicked??? You got to be kidding! No way. I am shocked.

And, no, I don''t think the cherry-score tells you much especially when you are a beginner. It is not giving you any information at all!

Sorry, Richard, no offense and all, but how do we come up with pedigree or tone score without any reference or evaluation?
 
Ed,
I am in agreement with you on this one. I find Cherrypicked to be the most expensive vendor so far. Of course they do sell quite a lot of quality gemstones and the prices definitely reflect that.
 
Date: 6/19/2009 4:26:58 AM
Author: Edward Bristol


Date: 6/13/2009 11:28:38 AM
Author: RubyCharm
I think it's worth a shot to call Richard at Cherrypicked. The Cherrypicked stones are gorgeous. And, in my personal opinion, they are not as overpriced as the Wildfish gems, because you're paying for high quality selected gems (and the Cherrypicked score will tell you how they measure up to other gems of the same kind in terms of color, clarity, cut, etc.; which is very helpful when you're not an expert in colored stones).

Besides, Richard has many gems in his vault that are not posted on the website (which he doesn't update very often), so you could inquire about other alternatives. As for the two Cherrypicked colored change sapphires that I suggested before, you could ask him to send you more pictures in different light settings. That's what I did when I worked with him, and he was happy to send me more pics. Richard also charges a very reasonable shipping fee in case you'd like to review the stones before you decide whether you'll purchase anything at all (he'll put an authorization hold on your credit card, but nothing will be charged until you complete the purchase). I spent a small fortune reviewing stones in person from different dealers, and I must say that Richard's shipping charges were the least expensive among all of them. I was also interested in a stone from Ed's website and exchanged emails with him for a while, but never got to review any of his stones because I didn't want to make a bank deposit without even seeing the stone first!!! Besides, international shipping can be more of a hassle.

Another thing that I'd like you to keep in mind is that, a lot of times, pictures don't do justice to the actual beauty of certain colored stones. Many times I was pleasantly surprised to receive stones that looked significantly more beautiful in real life than in pictures. So, don't choose your engagement ring stone based on pictures alone, and don't pick the first sapphire that you get to see in real life if you had never seen a fine sapphire before. I think you can do that with diamonds, but not with colored stones. Try to review at least two or three stones, if possible. I fell in love when I saw the first unheated & natural sapphire from the NSC (up to that point, I had only seen the commercial quality sapphires that you can find in mall jewelry stores and, believe me, ANY sapphire from the NSC looks MUCH MUCH MUCH better than those sapphires). But then, I realized I was dealing with stones that were in a whole other league. Anyway, no matter what you decide to do, keep us posted!
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RubyCharm, Wildfish MORE expensive than Cherrypicked??? You got to be kidding! No way. I am shocked.

And, no, I don't think the cherry-score tells you much especially when you are a beginner. It is not giving you any information at all!

Sorry, Richard, no offense and all, but how do we come up with pedigree or tone score without any reference or evaluation?
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Ed:

First of all, I'm very sorry if my comment offended you. That was not my intention at all, and I should have been more careful with my words. That said, keep in mind that I especifically wrote "in my personal opinion" and I've always made it VERY CLEAR that I'm not an expert. I'm sharing my point of view based on my personal experience, and I'm sorry but FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF A TOTALLY INEXPERIENCED CUSTOMER (as it was my case when I first began searching for my engagement stone), the cherry-score was VERY USEFUL. Maybe, it's worthless to you, because you are looking at it from a different perspective, Ed. Also, in my opinion, there are some intangible attributes (e.g., GUARANTEED fine quality, easier transaction, domestically located business) that may translate into a higher price, and if those intangible attributes are financially worthwhile for a customer, then---from the perspective of that customer--he or she is not overpaying for something. That was my experience with Cherrypicked.
 
I gotta say, Ed... I look on your site sometimes but for the prices you charge, the information just isn''t there, and your pic quality isn''t really that great. I''ve actually thought the same thing about Cherrypicked.

You''re on par with Jeff White of prices (and sometimes higher), but without the precision cutting, and the multiple stone views much of the time. Granted some do think Jeff''s pictures are misleading on color. But everyone agrees that his cutting is great.
 
Date: 6/19/2009 7:19:14 PM
Author: Gypsy
I gotta say, Ed... I look on your site sometimes but for the prices you charge, the information just isn't there, and your pic quality isn't really that great. I've actually thought the same thing about Cherrypicked.

You're on par with Jeff White of prices (and sometimes higher), but without the precision cutting, and the multiple stone views much of the time. Granted some do think Jeff's pictures are misleading on color. But everyone agrees that his cutting is great.
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Gypsy, it seems you have never clicked on the detail page of each stone. What other information would you want me to add?
 
I've clicked Ed. The pciture quality (not quantity) was my cheif complaint. They either don't match up to what people get when they post on here, or they just don't match your descriptions of the colors. I've looked, trust me. Just consider it potential consumer feedback. You charge a lot for your stones, and when someone is paying that kind of money... they are going to have high expectations.

Here's one: http://www.wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/3159 Picture is terrible, I can't tell from the desciption why I'd shell out over a 100 bucks for it. The cut weird and "fancy kite" looks like a pear with a random straight edge as for the stones color... I'm apparently going to have to take that on faith. Honestly, I could get something similar from a decent gem show for 20 bucks or less. Less probably. Compare that with the stones in the same price range (both sold) 162 and 80 bucks on this page: http://www.precisiongem.com/html/html/Garnet_Red.html you can tell the color, the cut and if you click on the descriptions you get a real description of the stones that, from people's purchases on here, are accurate. http://www.acstones.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=5&idproduct=2624 And then there's this one. Again, similar price and carat size, much nicer cut and you can get an idea of the stones color (dark red-orange).

This is your competition. That's all I'm saying.
 
Oh, you did pick a weird old cutters experiment and a photo from 1995 with the old camera! That was not fair :-)

Yet, if you consider that the price includes a certificate, a grading-report, a gem-box with a loupe and a holder, free worldwide transport and, last not least, a loving letter from me, I think it is not too expensive.

Going to a show is not free either.
 
Date: 6/20/2009 9:41:36 AM
Author: Edward Bristol

Oh, you did pick a weird old cutters experiment and a photo from 1995 with the old camera! That was not fair :-)

Yet, if you consider that the price includes a certificate, a grading-report, a gem-box with a loupe and a holder, free worldwide transport and, last not least, a loving letter from me, I think it is not too expensive.

Going to a show is not free either.
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Ed,
What if you don''t want the cert, grading-report. loupe, and although the loving letter is nice, not required, then do you get to pay the true value for that stone? I can''t ditch the shipping, since that is required. If the picture is from 1995, why didn''t you update it? Not to nitpick, I''m sure you have many fine stones. BTW, what does going to a show have to do with this?
 
A windowed, included colorless topaz of 2.5 carats for almost $400
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. Even though gem shows aren't free, I could get the same stone for about $10 there. That must be an expensive loupe you send with the gems. Is there a good reason why this stone is so expensive per carat weight?

http://www.wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/8324
 
Date: 6/20/2009 9:41:36 AM
Author: Edward Bristol


Oh, you did pick a weird old cutters experiment and a photo from 1995 with the old camera! That was not fair :-)


Yet, if you consider that the price includes a certificate, a grading-report, a gem-box with a loupe and a holder, free worldwide transport and, last not least, a loving letter from me, I think it is not too expensive.


Going to a show is not free either.
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How about this gem, Ed? I think this qualifies as a recent example. The color looks a lot nicer in your pictures than in real life (I would say SIGNIFICANTLY nicer).

Jadeite Cabochon from Wildfish

The difference in color was not a big deal to that particular buyer, because it's still a nice color and I guess that discrepancy won't make a big difference in the price of that type of gemstone, anyway.

However, as far as blue star sapphires are concerned: Back when I first contacted you, I already knew that color intensity would make a significant difference in the price of a star sapphire, and I just wasn't certain whether your gem would still look the same in person (especially color-wise). And having that certainty was important and financially worthwhile to me. Otherwise, I couldn't tell whether I'd be actually overpaying or not.

As for the *perks* a customer gets with a Wildfish gem, here are my thoughts in comparison with Cherrypicked:

***Certificate & Grading Report = Thank you very much, but I don't want one unless it's for free (not taken into account when pricing the stone) or it comes from one of the major labs (e.g., AGTA, AGL). At Cherrypicked, that's what "Pedigree" in the Cherry-Score is for:

5 Natural with certificate
4.5 Natural with certificate and certain issues (see certificate and comments)
4 Natural with certificate though lab is not widely recognized for origin and treatment certification
3 Natural with owners guarantee
2.5 Clarity enhanced with minimal oil and no opticon (For Emeralds Only)
2.5 Enhanced by heat with owners guarantee that the gem has not undergone a bulk diffusion process
2 Enhanced by heat
1.8 Clarity enhanced (For Emeralds only)
1.6 enhanced by bulk diffusion process
1.4 enhanced and filled with unidentified fillers or polymers
1.2 Enhanced by irradiation

Every gem type has a "pedigree" that is considered to be the optimal version of that gem. At the top of the pyramid are the gems that are:

1) Natural and untreated,
2) From a desirable origin (ie. Kashmir, Burma for Sapphire), and
3) Accompanied by a certificate from a reputable lab.

When a gemstone has all of these factors, its pedigree scoring is highest. At the opposite end of the pyramid are "enhanced" or "treated" gemstones, which comprise more than 99% of all gems available today. Jerrold Green, President of Reginald C. Miller, Inc., our expert-trading partner, is frequently consulted by not only other dealers, but also by many of the labs that issue certificates. His qualification of "natural with owner's guarantee" is an excellent starting point for collectors, as this gemstone has been examined by Mr. Green and is guaranteed to be as represented. We encourage our clients making important purchases to have their gems certified before mounting, directly after purchase. Mr. Green will be pleased to make those arrangements at the time of purchase.

So, if you want a gem with a certificate or a grading report from a reputable lab, you'll be paying for that. If you don't, you won't. If you want to know all the details that really affect your purchase, you can refer to the Cherry-Score, ask Richard for clarification if you have any questions, and more importantly, you can be sure that the pictures that he'll email you will show the gem at its worst, not its best. That was my experience with Cherrypicked. Richard sent me pictures emphasizing the gem's flaws!!! Magnifying those flaws!!! And, on top of that, he sent me a DETAILED MAP OF THE INCLUSIONS. I thought "WOW, that's a lot of inclusions! Richard must be completely confident in his gem's fine quality & beauty to email me pictures like that." It was like seeing the gem "totally naked" and without any "make-up" on. I couldn't believe this gem's clarity rating was a 4.0 in the Cherry-Score, meaning "A clean surface that shows no inclusions to the naked eye." Needless to say, when I received the gem, I was blown away!!! It was absolutely gorgeous and, sure enough, completely eye-clean. I knew those inclusions were there, somewhere, but they were not visible.

***A Gem Box with a Loupe and Holder = Thank you very much, but I don't want those things unless they're for free (not taken into account when pricing the stone). Some customers already own those tools and, if they don't, they could still purchase them when needed.

***Free Worldwide Transport = That's great, but "If you prefer an advanced service, UPS offers online tracking and 48 hours delivery worldwide. Upgrading to UPS will add $75 to your cost" (http://wildfishgems.com/transport). I'm one of those people who would prefer an expedited delivery (especially for international shipping of valuable items) and the opportunity to track my package online at all times. Otherwise, I would go nuts. And, I'm sure I'm not the only customer in this boat. At Cherrypicked, shipping fees are not included, but they're quite reasonable (which is what's really important, in my opinion). Here are the flat shipping rates, if anyone is interested:

http://cherrypicked.com/Info/shipping.aspx

***A Loving Letter from You = Very nice as well, but you also get a loving letter from Richard, hehe, AND a loving email with a nice surprise.


And, Ed, please don't get my tone wrong. I don't intend to insult you in anyway. I'm just reporting my personal opinion based on my limited experience. But, most importantly, I just wanted to give you an honest insight into the mind of a customer. When I (as the customer) consider all the things that I've just written, I'm not kidding when I say that, from my perspective, Cherrypicked is not necessarily the more expensive option.
 
Stepcutnut,
If you haven''t already done so, check out: www.swalagemtraders.com. They have a number of bi-coloured sapphires.
 
Date: 6/19/2009 7:19:14 PM
Author: Gypsy
I gotta say, Ed... I look on your site sometimes but for the prices you charge, the information just isn''t there, and your pic quality isn''t really that great.
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I''d rather that than pictures that have been Photoshopped to the point of misrepresentation.
 
Regarding this jadeite, I''m not putting down the buyer''s choice and I don''t know how much she paid. From my limited knowledge, if the colour is what is represented by the vendor''s photo it''ll be a very very expensive stone, can anything jadeite experts confirm? ...Maybe I should start a new thread if any other forum members are also interested in buying jadeites.
 
There''s an existing thread. I''m interested.
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Date: 6/20/2009 9:09:00 PM
Author: Lovinggems
Regarding this jadeite, I'm not putting down the buyer's choice and I don't know how much she paid. From my limited knowledge, if the colour is what is represented by the vendor's photo it'll be a very very expensive stone, can anything jadeite experts confirm? ...Maybe I should start a new thread if any other forum members are also interested in buying jadeites.
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I'm not putting down the buyer's choice, either. I also don't know how much she paid for it. I actually don't know much about jadeites. I'm just saying that, if that gem had been a star sapphire, the difference in color intensity would have probably made a difference in the true value of the gem (i.e., a star sapphire of a vivid/bright color is more expensive than a star sapphire of a lighter/paler color; all other things the same). That's my point.
 

“And, Ed, please don''t get my tone wrong. I don''t intend to insult you in anyway.”



Well, RubyCharm, I am not so sure. You are quite nasty to me in many ways:
You compare Richards services on multi-K stones with my poor little 100 bucks garnet. Then you want only paid-for extra-services, but complain if I charge for an UPS-upgrade. And obviously without having a clue about jade, you imply a judgment on my sold jade. That was a super fine piece. Great color, translucency, finest texture and clean, and AIGS certified untreated. It is easy to be nasty here, but not easy to make an honest living in this trade.

Tourmaline lover, you are dead right: My all-inclusive offer is getting too expensive for cheaper gems. I put the same effort into a 2 carat topaz as I put into a 5 carat sapphire. From a business point of view, I will have to change that. The little weird garnet should in fact be more expensive, but I have neither updated the photo nor the price since 2005. For$100 it will be a minus business for me today.

However, just to have a final word
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a $10 topaz from a gem show bargain counter will most likely be a radiated one where the color didn’t come out, so they sell it off cheap.
 
Date: 6/23/2009 11:07:15 AM
Author: Edward Bristol







“And, Ed, please don't get my tone wrong. I don't intend to insult you in anyway.”










Well, RubyCharm, I am not so sure. You are quite nasty to me in many ways:
You compare Richards services on multi-K stones with my poor little 100 bucks garnet. Then you want only paid-for extra-services, but complain if I charge for an UPS-upgrade. And obviously without having a clue about jade, you imply a judgment on my sold jade. That was a super fine piece. Great color, translucency, finest texture and clean, and AIGS certified untreated. It is easy to be nasty here, but not easy to make an honest living in this trade.

Tourmaline lover, you are dead right: My all-inclusive offer is getting too expensive for cheaper gems. I put the same effort into a 2 carat topaz as I put into a 5 carat sapphire. From a business point of view, I will have to change that. The little weird garnet should in fact be more expensive, but I have neither updated the photo nor the price since 2005. For$100 it will be a minus business for me today.

However, just to have a final word
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a $10 topaz from a gem show bargain counter will most likely be a radiated one where the color didn’t come out, so they sell it off cheap.
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I compared Richard's services with your own services (since you yourself mentioned them first), and I'm not complaining about the UPS upgrade. I agree that "Free Worldwide Transport" is a great thing to offer (and that's what I wrote above). However, for my own purposes (and the purposes of other buyers in my same boat), that is not a competitive advantage because I don't need "free shipping" if it will take too long and I can't track it every step of the way (so, from my perspective, shipping services that are comparable to those of Cherrypicked cost an extra fee, and it's not like I'm going to think "Wildfish has an advantage here, because free worldwide transport is included"). Therefore, what's really important to me is that shipping fees for an expedited delivery be reasonable. That's all. While I think your UPS upgrade might be a good value for certain gems (depending on their price), that's not necessarily true for all of them. To give you an idea of what I mean: if I wanted to get a Wildfish gem with a price tag of $2,860 (such as the bicolor gem that the OP stepcutgirl liked) and wanted expedited shipping, I would be paying $75. On the other hand, if I wanted to get a gem of a similar price from Cherrypicked, I would be paying about $25 for expedited shipping. The lower the price of a gem, the greater the cost difference in this type of shipping service.

Anyway, I'd like to apologize for making inappropriate and uncalled for comments about your sold jade. That was out of line, and I would delete them if I could.
 
You know Ed. PS has a long history of vendors who have lost potential business because of their defensive dogged bordering on rude posts. I have the following advice: On PS there is such a thing as BAD publicity. And I''d quit while you were ahead.
 
I looked at a lot of stones from Wildfish. When I was shopping for my sapphire, I checked their site almost daily (but like anything else, the stones I liked that were in my price range always sold too fast). I still love to visit that site as there have been many stones that have truly amazed me that I have never seen anywhere else. But I will say, the price is what has kept me from getting the lower end stones. I think if the policy about gem certs changed for lower priced items, I would be ok with that if it meant I could actually afford them.

I had 2 sapphires brought in from CherryPicked, and felt they were much darker than the photo represented. I think now, 2 years later, knowing how to explain what I want, Rob would probably be able to find the perfect stone for me. In fact, I believe he was already looking for another stone, but then he had family issues and, understandably, put that first.

I think the other thing unique about Wildfish is the fact that some of the social/environmental issues that have to do with the mining industry are addressed. I know that is not something we talk about too much here, but for some consumers, that is important. My sister, for example, always wants to know where things come from and if she is buying responsibly. She makes peanuts, but if she made more, I could see her getting her really loving that site, she would read all of the articles for sure. If she asked me to recommend a place to buy colored stones, I would put this one on the list just for that reason. It would appeal to her. Of course, Pricescope would never appeal to my sister, so her voice doesn''t get represented on here.

I think there are many different types of consumers and many good businesses to cater to them.
 
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