Ideal cut VS Very Good

[Bluehammer]

Hello,

I am trying to shop online to get a stone. I have been mostly (nit) picking through the ideals. It seems that from a specs standpoint I can choose a stone based upon numbers that are closer to "perfect". However, from a visual standpoint it is more difficult. I can only see the online 40x picture, idealscope, etc.

My question is for those who have several diamonds and have had them for a while. If you have ideal "branded" stones and those that are not the ideal specs, do you see a big difference? I am (hopefully) going to find some individuals who can compare similar color etc.

I am really asking the question: Is it worth it to buy a branded stone from a pure visual standpoint?

This is everyday conditions not using a H&A viewer etc. This is for the eye performance not peace of mind.

Any input would help. Thanks.

 

[fire&ice]

No, - and a very good make could out perform or be more attractive in your eyes. They represent a greater value for - at the least - a very marginal visual impact. Sometimes people want that piece of mind on paper if you are buying over the net.

What size are you looking at?

 

[JulieN]

I would say, it is not worth it to buy a branded hearts and arrows stone if you are having to go down to J-K SI2 just in order to reach the carat size you want (although there's nothing wrong with a good K SI2!)

BUT you can still get ideal stones without it being a branded H&A.

 

[february2003bride]

A friend of mine went looking at engagement rings with her BF and was surprised when comparing an Ideal cut vs a Good (not even Very Good) Cut and the Good cut is what she loved!

 

[belle]

i think it is important to remember that just because a stone is ''branded'' it is not automatically better. the post going on now about a ''leo'' (branded) diamond is one example of that.
to get a nice looking diamond, you need a great cut.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I agree with Belle. Branded has nothing to do with it! I personally would now stick to GIA excellent cut or AGS0 (ideal) cut and the brand has no influence whatsoever.

 

[fire&ice]

I believe he is talking about H&A AGS0 stones. I think he means the difference between - like expert selection or signature line. I could be wrong though.

Clarity?

 

[Rod]

Date: 7/27/2006 10:05:13 AM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I agree with Belle. Branded has nothing to do with it! I personally would now stick to GIA excellent cut or AGS0 (ideal) cut and the brand has no influence whatsoever.

Just don''t avoid stones graded by GIA that are graded Very Good. In my circumstance, I had several stones to choose from. My stone was graded by GIA before the new grading system was put in place and I didn''t have a sarin so I didn''t know the angles, but I did know my stone was in essence a 60/60 (I know some people don''t like ''em

), but when I compared what turned out to become my pet rock to other stones considered more idealy cut, my pet rock was prettier (at least to my eyes). There are some absolutely FANTASTIC Very Good graded stones out there.

 

[Bluehammer]

Date: 7/27/2006 10:11:18 AM
Author: fire&ice
I believe he is talking about H&A AGS0 stones. I think he means the difference between - like expert selection or signature line. I could be wrong though.


Clarity?

Hi F&I,

You are correct. I have been looking at a branded H&A vs other Ideal or EX cuts. I thought I had made up my mind to get the H&A. But the more I read and the more I compute the $$$$, the more it seems that the true Super Ideal is more a mental than physical factor. I just do not know. I do not have 5 diamonds to compare and contrast. At best I have a nice watch. I think this is where I fall short in experience. I am not a diamond wearing guy. I am also a research super freak. But.....the true sparkle of a diamond is in the eye not the numbers. In the end my girlfriend, soon to be fiance, will not be upset with my choice. She will be happy with a nice sparkler whether it is good, very good or excellent cut. I got lucky that way, but I still want to knock her socks off.

DeBeers sure does have a heck of a marketing department!

 

[diamondlove]

hi Bluehammer,

I think there''s a difference between the title of your thread vs. your question that you are asking in the post. If you are asking ideal cut vs. very good cut (regardless of what brand or whether it''s even branded or not) then yes it does make a difference and you should find a stone that is as ideal as your budget permits (I''d sacrifice color/clarity for the cut).

However, what people seem to be answering is whether you must pick a branded ideal stone over a nonbranded ideal stone. In that regards, I''d say no. You need to ultimately look at the numbers AND decide what visually wows YOU. Saying that, most people who are looking to buy a terrific cut diamond tend to end up with a H&A diamond bc those are cut based on certain specs that tend to WOW a majority of people (not all). In the same way that you can also narrow your search based on GIA ''Excellent'' cuts and/or AGS ''O'' Ideal cut diamonds and probably end up with a pretty WOW stone.

I am not saying that those are always great or that they are the only great ones but you could probably find a terrific stone easier if you stay within those parameters. But like some of the prior postings say, you can also possibly come across a terrific stone that was graded ''very good'' perhaps. It all depends on how thorough you are looking and whether you are able to compare more stones in person.

I will say that the sparkles that the H&A stones I have seen in person have WOWed ME more than my diamond from Tiffany''s and other diamonds I have that weren''t as superideal cut. Hearts on Fire stones also wow me but they have a heftier price tag than H&A stones you can find online.

I am with you in that I''m not finicky about the numbers so much as I want it to make a difference when I''m just glancing down at it in everyday conditions and the H&A stones def. did that for me-- the rainbow sparkles mesmerized me just sitting in my living room like no other diamond has before.

hope that helps a bit,

DL

 

[Bluehammer]

Thanks for the feedback!

I think you are right. The topic has kind of drifted into a personal "pick the stone that speaks to you" kind of response. Although I appreciate this, it is a given. Each person picks the stone that looks good to them. Basically to clarify my question:

Those that have both Super Ideal (H&A, ACA etc.) and Excellent/Very Good cut stones....do you see a big enough difference or do you THINK you see a difference just because you know one is a better cut? Do you suprise yourself and get them mixed up?

I want the best cut and am willing to give up color/clarity. I just do not know from the online info if the super ideal is worth the price physically.

 

[diamondlove]

Then I'd still reiterate my earlier comment that I personally can see a difference and it's not a mind clean matter at all bc I don't really care about the technical details if something just looks outstandingly pretty to me. My stone from Tiffany's is a well cut stone (Tiffany's standards) but it's an obvious difference from my H&A stone. The sparkles from the H&A is unbelievable whereas the Tiffany stone I have is pretty on its own but not so unbelievable next to the H&A.

Just my .02. I imagine other people have differing opinions. Just make sure that they are really comparing a nonideal to a superideal bc I realized during my own research that sometimes people are sharing their opinions based on assumptions and not because they have actually seen an H&A in person. Due to those opinions I almost had my bf just stick with a regular ideal to save money but I'm soo glad I told him to go ahead and research thoroughly and see in person whether there is enough difference to make it worth it. He definitely decided the difference was worth it once he saw H&A stones in person.


DL

ETA: There is no mistaking my non H&A stones with the H&A stone. oh and if you really think about it... if you had purchased a stone from a nononline vendor you would've paid a similar price for a non superideal stone to the price you'd pay for a superideal stone from an online vendor. Not too bad if you think of it like that.

 

[fire&ice]

Bluehammer - IMHO - there exists little to no difference in H&A super duper loupers & stones with very good makes. In fact, some could look better in your eyes. It can be personal. I have bought 4 H&A stones. I saw little to no difference in those than in my stones (non branded - one could be considered a very fine make w/o the pedigree with didn''t exist at the time). All of my personal stones would be considered very good makes. I wouldn''t pay the premium if it was more than 5-10%. Some people prefer other proportions. I love the look of my old OEC diamond. The relationship of the crown and pav. angles seem to trump the table/depth - as my OEC has a tiny table and is deep - as many old stones were cut this way.

That said, cut drives the boat to the beauty of the stone. I''ve advocating getting a stone with a very good make. But - 24 years ago we were sold on Lazare Kaplan stones. We realized the importance of cut. We had a budget for about a 1/2 carat LK stone. We went to another diamond dealer & expressed our importance of cut. He sold us a knock your socks off well cut 3/4 stone for the price of the LK. So, the difference between - for example - WF expert selection & "a cut above" will be minimal. The difference in price somewhat significant. It''s up to each individual if they want to pay the price. My point in bringing up the WF is that just outside of perfect is the sweet spot as far as value.

In the end & ahead in importance of cut - the 5th and most important "c" is cleanliness. For example, my niece cleans her diamond e.r. frequently. Her mother just put them in and forgets about them. Her mothers still sparkle - but pales in comparision to my niece''s.

What size, color and clarity are you looking at?

 

[Rod]

I was lucky in that I was able to compare my GIA Very Good stone at the time of purchase to a branded 8*. I really didn''t want to even consider my stone. I had done so much research. The proportions were all wrong. But my jeweler kept saying I needed to see this rock and that it was really something. So, side by side I had the option to see my stone next to more ideal cuts, including the 8*. That''s when I realized the extra facets in the 8* did not appeal to me. I like the broader flashes larger facets produce. Perhaps the 8* had more flashes, but they are smaller - busier (to my eyes at least). My lowly Very Good graded stone, in my humble opinion, outperformed the branded 8* hands down.

Good luck with whatever you choose. You are doing really well with making and educated informed decision and your soon to be FI will benefit greatly from all the hard work you are putting into your search!

Cheers.

 

[gemmy1]

Date: 7/27/2006 8:56:50 AM
Author:Bluehammer

If you have ideal ''branded'' stones and those that are not the ideal specs, do you see a big difference?

I think it is important to this discussion to note that the new GIA cut grading system is based not only on 15 years of high level research utilizing the latest technologies, but also on 70,000 real world human observations.

Their studies concluded that real people could only distinguish consistently among 5 cut quality grades. The top grade "Excellent" encompasses most of the stones promoted as ideal and super- ideal, but also includes beautiful stones not considered ideal by many purists.

The theoretical ideals are few, but the practical ideals are a much broader range.

 

[hausee]

After reading the diamnds guide of goodoldgold. I feel safe to choose GIA excellent cut. According to their study, 95% of people prefer GIA excellent cut to AGS0(which is strict to stones). A perfect stone for me will need GIA excellent cut and with great HCA score, lets say under 2. And maybe good AGA grade too(http://www.gemappraisers.com/oldcutgrade.asp). Polish/sym should over VG too.

have a nice weekend.