Ideal vs. SuperIdeal?

[dogmama]

I know that I an AGS0 is an Ideal cut and a GIA grade of Excellent is considered a top notch cut. However, is this the same as the superideal cuts?

If possible could someone explain to me? I''ve never seen that on a diamond grading report and I heard someone mention it over in SMTR in a thread I was reading. I''m actively looking only for ideal cuts, but I didn''t know there were so many ideal cuts.

How is this possible?

Thanks!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

GIA excellent would not be classed as ideal as some proportions are quite a bit too deep.

Super is usually confined to rouunds with hearts and Arrows and leak free proportions.

It is probably a mind thing as no one has yet come out and said "I can see the difference and am prepared to bet $1,000 at 10 to 1 on it"

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 3/22/2008 10:27:29 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

GIA excellent would not be classed as ideal as some proportions are quite a bit too deep.

Super is usually confined to rounds with hearts and Arrows and leak free proportions.

It is probably a mind thing as no one has yet come out and said ''I can see the difference and am prepared to bet $1,000 at 10 to 1 on it''

Super-ideal is usually confined to rounds with precise/true/matching hearts and Arrows and leak free proportions. And for me they should have tight tolerances and min painting and digging to earn the title.
I like precision workmanship and am willing too reward it with my money and recommendation.

That said there are some excellent stones in the near h&a range that can save a few bucks.

 

[beryl]

But why pay extra if you can''t see the difference?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 3/22/2008 11:23:51 PM
Author: beryl
But why pay extra if you can't see the difference?

fine workmanship should be rewarded in all things.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 3/22/2008 11:23:51 PM
Author: beryl
But why pay extra if you can''t see the difference?

I agree Berly, but respect the rights of others to pay for ''mind perfect'', which of course gets down to what you can detect or measure - a field close to your own experiance as an engineer.

Hope you are well - good to see you pop in

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Date: 3/22/2008 10:27:29 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

GIA excellent would not be classed as ideal as some proportions are quite a bit too deep.

Super is usually confined to rouunds with hearts and Arrows and leak free proportions.

It is probably a mind thing as no one has yet come out and said ''I can see the difference and am prepared to bet $1,000 at 10 to 1 on it''

I am very bad at digging out old threads, but there have been numerous threads in the past of consumers being able to exactly communicate the difference between a number of super-ideal brands.

If they could do that, it is more than enough proof that they could see the difference.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 3/22/2008 11:23:51 PM
Author: beryl
But why pay extra if you can''t see the difference?

I think the answer to this could boil down to a person''s reason for purchasing a diamond. Some people seem to buy them for status, or the symbolism (i.e., enagagement/love), but others seem to be facinated with the physics or beauty or, dare I say it, even the art of a finely cut diamond. For those latter types of people, buying a super-ideal may matter more because then they are spending their money on the most finely crafted piece of "art" that their money can buy. Still others may like to feel like they got a great deal on a really well-cut stone, so paying for what you can actually see if the best bet for them.

My friend suggested this theory to explain why I love diamonds so much: she suggested that a diamond on the finger acts as an affirmation of a value that is important to me. Art, beauty, and creativity are really important values to me, so I want a diamond that performs really well so I can appreciate its beauty everyday. As I mentioned earlier, for others, looking at their diamonds may remind them of the values of wealth, perfection, science, or love. Social psychology research suggests that thinking about a value that is imporant to you has an amazing ability to improve mood, reduce defensiveness, and basically make people feel good. So diamonds on the finger could be an important affirmation tool for many people. Some may be willing to pay extra for that.

Or they could just be suckers

DD

 

[strmrdr]

The more I learn about the diamonds the more that it is clear that diamonds have too be looked at as a case by case basis and labels are dangerous.
There can be some performance advantages too a super-ideal across a wide range of light conditions. (less so in some narrow and specific lighting conditions)
But not all super-ideals are created equal too and a specific ideal may be a better overall performer than a specific super-ideal cut.
Making a slight step down to get the right balance of other attributes can sometimes be the right thing too do also.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 3/23/2008 10:28:51 AM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Date: 3/22/2008 11:23:51 PM
Author: beryl
But why pay extra if you can''t see the difference?

I think the answer to this could boil down to a person''s reason for purchasing a diamond. Some people seem to buy them for status, or the symbolism (i.e., enagagement/love), but others seem to be facinated with the physics or beauty or, dare I say it, even the art of a finely cut diamond. For those latter types of people, buying a super-ideal may matter more because then they are spending their money on the most finely crafted piece of ''art'' that their money can buy. Still others may like to feel like they got a great deal on a really well-cut stone, so paying for what you can actually see if the best bet for them.

My friend suggested this theory to explain why I love diamonds so much: she suggested that a diamond on the finger acts as an affirmation of a value that is important to me. Art, beauty, and creativity are really important values to me, so I want a diamond that performs really well so I can appreciate its beauty everyday. As I mentioned earlier, for others, looking at their diamonds may remind them of the values of wealth, perfection, science, or love. Social psychology research suggests that thinking about a value that is imporant to you has an amazing ability to improve mood, reduce defensiveness, and basically make people feel good. So diamonds on the finger could be an important affirmation tool for many people. Some may be willing to pay extra for that.

Or they could just be suckers

DD

Lovely explanation Dreamer, well said!

 

[risingsun]

I could have gotten a considerably larger diamond, but I chose an ACA "superideal" cut, G VS2 stone. This combination of attributes is the sweet spot for me. If I upgrade again, I''m sure I will still be looking at the same parameters. Why? The beauty, craftsmanship, care and everything that went into producing this diamond matters to me. We all have different criteria and there are diamonds to fit them

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 3/22/2008 11:23:51 PM
Author: beryl
But why pay extra if you can''t see the difference?

Welcome, nice to see you again!

Let me take a shot at this. Perhaps I am all wet, but I think I can shed some light on this.

First, I do not agree that the difference can not be seen. Perhaps not by all, but certainly by many. Once when Paul was here I showed him three stones that qualify in many peoples minds as "super ideals" although this is not a formal term and there are not trade agreed upon definitions of the term super ideal.

One was one of his, one was an EightStar and I forget who cut the third, but it had a nice H&A pattern but was a little leaky about the edges.

Each was in a small diamond holder that looked like a fountain pen with small wires that came out and grabbed the diamond on the girdle, allowing all three to be held at the end of the "pen" almost like it was on a dop.

Paul instantly identified his as "one of mine" and the EightStar as an EightStar and then said of the third, this is a nice gem, but has a little too much leakage around the edges.

Mind you, this was with the unaided eye. Could I have done that at that time, NO, and although I might be better at it now, I could not definitively distinguish one from the other with precision without loupeing or microscoping the gem, or better yet using the ASET as I normally do. So no Garry, I will not take your $1,000 challenge unless I get to use my toys. I am 61 years of age, and my visual acuity, while still good, is not that good. Give me my toys and I can play all day!

Even IF it were true that the best cuts and better cuts are all just visually indistinguishable from a good cut, and I do not believe it is, I would not agree that the best cuts did not have value. If that were true, then there would also be no reason to pay a premium for VVS or Flawless gems over eye clean SI stones or even eye clean I stones.

I delivered a 2ct D-IF last November that was cut by Paul. It was visually indistinguishable from any other D-VVS1 - SI2 (eye clean) that Paul might have cut of the same size, but I warrant that you would have NO PROBLEM at all agreeing that it was worth ONE HECK of a LOT more money than any of those other gems. It certainly was to my client and to his wife, who by the way is a concert violinist who plays a Stradivarius. Wow, you really CAN hear the difference in tone between one of those and a regular violin, she played both of them for me in her home, what a treat that was!

Even if it were only a mind clean thing, much like the D-IF, it would have value to know that the diamond you owned was carefully and precisely cut to the best perfection and tightest tolerances that could be obtained by man.

Still, I do not believe that it is only a mind clean thing. I am told that early indications in the scintillation study are that optical symmetry does in fact generate more and larger events of scintillation than a gem that has similar light return without the optical symmetry. It will be interesting to see what happens when the studies are complete as to whether or not that is true. If it is some people will have the visual acuity to detect this, others will not, should we deprive those who can not from having the mind clean experience of knowing that they have the best if they are willing to pay for it?

I think that it is up to the individual to educate themselves about what is on the market and to make the decision that is best for them. For me, I like the best for my wife and I like to sell the best for my clients.

I am proud to offer the best, and quite frankly have quit inventorying any thing less. I have some less than one carat gems here that did not come from Paul, but I have quit replacing them with anything but Paul''s diamonds when they sell.

It is funny, I have a .60ct diamond here that is from the Blue Nile select that is for sale for several hundred dollars below the Blue Nile price, and just last week someone paid more for one of Paul''s stones in the same size range. There was just something magic about Paul''s stone, even if it was only my love of Paul''s stone and the consistency with which he cuts them.

I am obviously biased, so I can not say which it was, but even when I mixed up the stones on a tray and did not tell the client which was which, he chose Paul''s stone, so who is to say it was not really that little extra magic.

At any rate, I digress, as if that were unusual. I love the top quality cuts that have been precision engineered for high light performance. Even if the benefit is all in my mind, and I repeat, I do not believe that for a second, I would still prefer them to a cheaper cut with looser standards that looked to most as if it were the same.

That''s my story and I''m sticking to it!

Wink

 

[lesco]

Date: 3/22/2008 10:27:29 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

GIA excellent would not be classed as ideal as some proportions are quite a bit too deep.

Super is usually confined to rouunds with hearts and Arrows and leak free proportions.

It is probably a mind thing as no one has yet come out and said ''I can see the difference and am prepared to bet $1,000 at 10 to 1 on it''

Garry,
What do you consider to be deep proportions ( i.e depth%, crown and pavillion angles and Lgf%) within GIA excellent?
Sorry if this is a poorly stated question. I''m sort of new to this whole thing.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 3/23/2008 4:16:49 PM
Author: lesco

Date: 3/22/2008 10:27:29 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

GIA excellent would not be classed as ideal as some proportions are quite a bit too deep.

Super is usually confined to rouunds with hearts and Arrows and leak free proportions.

It is probably a mind thing as no one has yet come out and said ''I can see the difference and am prepared to bet $1,000 at 10 to 1 on it''

Garry,
What do you consider to be deep proportions ( i.e depth%, crown and pavillion angles and Lgf%) within GIA excellent?
Sorry if this is a poorly stated question. I''m sort of new to this whole thing.

In a regular sym stone anything under hCA 2 in the upper zones.
I would go to HCA 2.5 in a super sym stone.
That gives you an entire range from crown angles 30 to 37 that are OK when combined with good pavilion angles Lesco.
I do not believe in giving a simple set of prportions for your question because in my experiance different people prefer different appearances / fire / brightness and size of sparkle.

 

[risingsun]

Well said, Wink! You and I had a similar discussion many moons ago...I doubt you will remember. You asked me why it made a difference to me, but my response was not as elegant as yours

 

[diagem]

I can see and understand some specialized cutters are able to identify their work! Only natural..., no?
I know I can..., but I only cut fancy shapes...

But I seriously doubt that regular consumers will be able to pick a SuperIdeal out of a bunch of Ideal cut rounds with out any tools or pro assistance..., especially based on leakage!

I guess the next question should be:

Very Good Polish and Symmetry vs. Excellent Polish and Symmetry in STEPCUTS..., what is the difference and can people identify the difference with out any helping tools???

Lets hear some opinions on this subject....

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 3/23/2008 4:51:22 PM
Author: DiaGem
I can see and understand some specialized cutters are able to identify their work! Only natural..., no?

I know I can..., but I only cut fancy shapes...

But I seriously doubt that regular consumers will be able to pick a SuperIdeal out of a bunch of Ideal cut rounds with out any tools or pro assistance..., especially based on leakage!

I guess the next question should be:


Very Good Polish and Symmetry vs. Excellent Polish and Symmetry in STEPCUTS..., what is the difference and can people identify the difference with out any helping tools???


Lets hear some opinions on this subject....

Different topic altogether, belongs in its own thread.

RE cutting in rounds: I have clients who CAN see the difference that are totally untrained, they just perceive the difference even if they do not know why. A big part of my job is to help them understand the why. I will often show two or three similar sized gems to my clients and ask them what they like and why, then I explain to them what they are seeing. Way more often than not they pick the best cut stone and then are very happy to learn why they made the choice that they did.

Wink

P.S. As I run out of the "lesser" cuts this is getting more and more difficult to do, as I am not replacing them in my inventory.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 3/23/2008 4:47:51 PM
Author: risingsun
Well said, Wink! You and I had a similar discussion many moons ago...I doubt you will remember. You asked me why it made a difference to me, but my response was not as elegant as yours

LOL! I think you and John and Paul are rubbing off on me and I am slowly slowly getting wiser...

Wink

 

[lesco]

Date: 3/23/2008 4:43:35 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 3/23/2008 4:16:49 PM
Author: lesco

Date: 3/22/2008 10:27:29 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

GIA excellent would not be classed as ideal as some proportions are quite a bit too deep.

Super is usually confined to rouunds with hearts and Arrows and leak free proportions.

It is probably a mind thing as no one has yet come out and said ''I can see the difference and am prepared to bet $1,000 at 10 to 1 on it''

Garry,
What do you consider to be deep proportions ( i.e depth%, crown and pavillion angles and Lgf%) within GIA excellent?
Sorry if this is a poorly stated question. I''m sort of new to this whole thing.

In a regular sym stone anything under hCA 2 in the upper zones.
I would go to HCA 2.5 in a super sym stone.
That gives you an entire range from crown angles 30 to 37 that are OK when combined with good pavilion angles Lesco.
I do not believe in giving a simple set of prportions for your question because in my experiance different people prefer different appearances / fire / brightness and size of sparkle.

Thank you Garry. I was hoping - along many of the newbies here - that you could release that "magic set of numbers".

 

[diagem]

Date: 3/23/2008 5:23:48 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 3/23/2008 4:51:22 PM
Author: DiaGem
I can see and understand some specialized cutters are able to identify their work! Only natural..., no?

I know I can..., but I only cut fancy shapes...

But I seriously doubt that regular consumers will be able to pick a SuperIdeal out of a bunch of Ideal cut rounds with out any tools or pro assistance..., especially based on leakage!

I guess the next question should be:


Very Good Polish and Symmetry vs. Excellent Polish and Symmetry in STEPCUTS..., what is the difference and can people identify the difference with out any helping tools???


Lets hear some opinions on this subject....

Different topic altogether, belongs in its own thread.

RE cutting in rounds: I have clients who CAN see the difference that are totally untrained, they just perceive the difference even if they do not know why. A big part of my job is to help them understand the why. I will often show two or three similar sized gems to my clients and ask them what they like and why, then I explain to them what they are seeing. Way more often than not they pick the best cut stone and then are very happy to learn why they made the choice that they did.

Wink

P.S. As I run out of the ''lesser'' cuts this is getting more and more difficult to do, as I am not replacing them in my inventory.

"One" of the tools sellers use to market their products (in this case an illusionary Diamond) is:

Every Diamond needs to be accompanied with a story....

 

[WinkHPD]

Especially when it is the true story, the whole story and nothing but the story.

Wink

 

[diagem]

Date: 3/23/2008 5:35:39 PM
Author: Wink
Especially when it is the true story, the whole story and nothing but the story.

Wink

Remember Wink..., no such creature as a perfect Diamond! Not yet at least...

 

[Allison D.]

Lily, 'superideal' is an unofficial term that most commonly means "the most tightly cut". It was used quite heavily five or six years ago when the only lab that even offered a cut grade was AGS. At that time, earning an AGS cut grade meant that certain measurements fell within ascribed ranges, but the *relationship* between those measurements wasn't considered.

It was possible then to have a diamond with a 35.3 crown angle and a 41.2 pavilion qualify as an AGS 0 just because each independent measurement fell within the specific ranges even though the relationship between those two measurements wouldn't necessarily produce the most optimal light return.

People who were hooked on getting optimal light performance stuck to even more stringent parameters (that many consumers here today still cite often), and those were anecdotally called "superideal". It was along the lines of 60-61.9 depth, 55-56 table, 34.2-34.9 crown angle, 40.6-40.9 pavilion angle, thin-med or med-thick girdle. Those were considered to be in the 'sweet spot' center of the desireable measurements.

When AGS revamped their cut grade to consider the relationship between those measurements and how it affects light performance, it made the 'superideal' notion a bit less important because now consumers can see if the diamond scores well in light performance.

Today, 0 (Ideal) is AGS's highest grade and Excellent is GIA's highest grade. They are often not equal because GIA's allowance for what scores Excellent is much broader than AGS's Ideal criteria. That's compounded by GIA's rounding of measurements. That's likely to become much more evident to consumers now that AGS is assigning cut grades on their DQR reports. Below is an example of the new DQR report reflecting cut grade.

This is likely to create a new paradigm in the market as many GIA Excellent stones will be equivalent to the new AGS DQR standards but perhaps not the more elite DQD standard. In essence, the DQD will become its own 'superideal'.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 3/23/2008 5:23:48 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 3/23/2008 4:51:22 PM
Author: DiaGem
I can see and understand some specialized cutters are able to identify their work! Only natural..., no?

I know I can..., but I only cut fancy shapes...

But I seriously doubt that regular consumers will be able to pick a SuperIdeal out of a bunch of Ideal cut rounds with out any tools or pro assistance..., especially based on leakage!

I guess the next question should be:


Very Good Polish and Symmetry vs. Excellent Polish and Symmetry in STEPCUTS..., what is the difference and can people identify the difference with out any helping tools???


Lets hear some opinions on this subject....

Different topic altogether, belongs in its own thread.

RE cutting in rounds: I have clients who CAN see the difference that are totally untrained, they just perceive the difference even if they do not know why. A big part of my job is to help them understand the why. I will often show two or three similar sized gems to my clients and ask them what they like and why, then I explain to them what they are seeing. Way more often than not they pick the best cut stone and then are very happy to learn why they made the choice that they did.

Wink

P.S. As I run out of the 'lesser' cuts this is getting more and more difficult to do, as I am not replacing them in my inventory.

Thank you for this post Wink. DiaGem and I were just having a conversation on this the other day. I couldn't seem to convince him (or even get him to entertain the thought) that ordinary people can see subtle (and really NOT so subtle) differences in cut. You just illustrated my point with a real life description perfectly.


And DiaGem, remember, nothing personal.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 3/23/2008 4:51:22 PM
Author: DiaGem
I can see and understand some specialized cutters are able to identify their work! Only natural..., no?
I know I can..., but I only cut fancy shapes...

But I seriously doubt that regular consumers will be able to pick a SuperIdeal out of a bunch of Ideal cut rounds with out any tools or pro assistance..., especially based on leakage!

I guess the next question should be:

Very Good Polish and Symmetry vs. Excellent Polish and Symmetry in STEPCUTS..., what is the difference and can people identify the difference with out any helping tools???

Lets hear some opinions on this subject....

I can quote ya chapter and verse of what the difference the lab considered when they graded it but....
Sometimes the level of workmanship that went into making it, other times the material itself is the real difference.
With some designs in some material just getting vg/vg shows extreme workmanship in step cuts.
vg/vg or better is fine.
g/g can be fine also at times but others can have an eye visible problem.
That is why I recommend vg/vg or better when they are being called in.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 3/23/2008 6:00:38 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 3/23/2008 5:23:48 PM

Author: Wink

Date: 3/23/2008 4:51:22 PM

Author: DiaGem

I can see and understand some specialized cutters are able to identify their work! Only natural..., no?


I know I can..., but I only cut fancy shapes...

But I seriously doubt that regular consumers will be able to pick a SuperIdeal out of a bunch of Ideal cut rounds with out any tools or pro assistance..., especially based on leakage!

I guess the next question should be:



Very Good Polish and Symmetry vs. Excellent Polish and Symmetry in STEPCUTS..., what is the difference and can people identify the difference with out any helping tools???



Lets hear some opinions on this subject....

Different topic altogether, belongs in its own thread.


RE cutting in rounds: I have clients who CAN see the difference that are totally untrained, they just perceive the difference even if they do not know why. A big part of my job is to help them understand the why. I will often show two or three similar sized gems to my clients and ask them what they like and why, then I explain to them what they are seeing. Way more often than not they pick the best cut stone and then are very happy to learn why they made the choice that they did.


Wink


P.S. As I run out of the ''lesser'' cuts this is getting more and more difficult to do, as I am not replacing them in my inventory.

Thank you for this post Wink. DiaGem and I were just having a conversation on this the other day. I couldn''t seem to convince him (or even get him to entertain the thought) that ordinary people can see subtle (and really NOT so subtle) differences in cut. You just illustrated my point with a real life description perfectly.



And DiaGem, remember, nothing personal.

Thanks Ellen,

I think one thing to remember here is that many many jewelers work with over bright environments that purposely block much of the ability of differentiation by making even bits of slag and flotsam from the floor look bright and sparkley.

Those of us who work with the very best cuts (notice, I am not saying perfect, just the closest to it we can get, so far) do not need the overbright lights. In fact I show clients the diamonds first in fluorescent light, the worst normal lighting condition that they will see, and then I turn on some flood lights that are a fraction of what you would get in a store, then I walk them into the hall, down the stairs and into a dark corner where even with just a hint of light coming over their shoulders the diamonds capture and return light in an amazing way. Then we walk outside and into the shade of a tree if it has leaves, or into the shade of the building to see the effect of the cutting in the sun and in the shade. Also if the diamond has any fluorescence, this is the time to see how wonderful it can look with that hint of blue that so many of my clients treasure.

I know many of the vendors for the best cuts do similar routines with their clients. This is ESPECIALLY ILLUSTRATIVE if you take along one of the lesser cuts for the ride. These invariably get handed back to me about half way through the "tour" and never asked for again.

Wink

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 3/23/2008 6:31:47 PM
Author: Wink


Thanks Ellen,

I think one thing to remember here is that many many jewelers work with over bright environments that purposely block much of the ability of differentiation by making even bits of slag and flotsam from the floor look bright and sparkley.

Those of us who work with the very best cuts (notice, I am not saying perfect, just the closest to it we can get, so far) do not need the overbright lights. In fact I show clients the diamonds first in fluorescent light, the worst normal lighting condition that they will see, and then I turn on some flood lights that are a fraction of what you would get in a store, then I walk them into the hall, down the stairs and into a dark corner where even with just a hint of light coming over their shoulders the diamonds capture and return light in an amazing way. Then we walk outside and into the shade of a tree if it has leaves, or into the shade of the building to see the effect of the cutting in the sun and in the shade. Also if the diamond has any fluorescence, this is the time to see how wonderful it can look with that hint of blue that so many of my clients treasure.

I know many of the vendors for the best cuts do similar routines with their clients. This is ESPECIALLY ILLUSTRATIVE if you take along one of the lesser cuts for the ride. These invariably get handed back to me about half way through the ''tour'' and never asked for again.

Wink

Great way too illustrate the concept of "over a wider range of lighting they will look better".
Btw if my mixed-step cut design gets cut and you every get one it would pass that test :}
As would the kicken asschers.
It is not limited too super-ideal rounds.
Id bet it would work with one of Paul''s princess cuts too.

 

[Ellen]

Wink, I totally believe it. I have seen it with my own eyes as well, when I was shopping for my upgrade, and in some studs I own. One pair was bought pre-pricescope. I didn''t even pick them out, long story. They are .45 each, no certs. I have no info on them outside of color and a false clarity grade (which I discovered later), but I would guess them at the level of GIA VG cut, possibly better. Compared to my ACA''s, which are close to the same size, there is a WORLD of difference. Even my hubby could see it, without anything being pointed out. That''ll tell ya.

 

[diagem]

Date: 3/23/2008 6:00:38 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 3/23/2008 5:23:48 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 3/23/2008 4:51:22 PM
Author: DiaGem
I can see and understand some specialized cutters are able to identify their work! Only natural..., no?

I know I can..., but I only cut fancy shapes...

But I seriously doubt that regular consumers will be able to pick a SuperIdeal out of a bunch of Ideal cut rounds with out any tools or pro assistance..., especially based on leakage!

I guess the next question should be:


Very Good Polish and Symmetry vs. Excellent Polish and Symmetry in STEPCUTS..., what is the difference and can people identify the difference with out any helping tools???


Lets hear some opinions on this subject....

Different topic altogether, belongs in its own thread.

RE cutting in rounds: I have clients who CAN see the difference that are totally untrained, they just perceive the difference even if they do not know why. A big part of my job is to help them understand the why. I will often show two or three similar sized gems to my clients and ask them what they like and why, then I explain to them what they are seeing. Way more often than not they pick the best cut stone and then are very happy to learn why they made the choice that they did.

Wink

P.S. As I run out of the ''lesser'' cuts this is getting more and more difficult to do, as I am not replacing them in my inventory.

Thank you for this post Wink. DiaGem and I were just having a conversation on this the other day. I couldn''t seem to convince him (or even get him to entertain the thought) that ordinary people can see subtle (and really NOT so subtle) differences in cut. You just illustrated my point with a real life description perfectly.


And DiaGem, remember, nothing personal.

I love the fact that Diamond illusion has such great power...

, thats what makes a Diamonds so special to each...one!
BTW..., our conversation was in regards to dog''s if I remember correctly..., no?

 

[diagem]

Date: 3/23/2008 6:31:47 PM
Author: Wink

Thanks Ellen,

I think one thing to remember here is that many many jewelers work with over bright environments that purposely block much of the ability of differentiation by making even bits of slag and flotsam from the floor look bright and sparkley.

Those of us who work with the very best cuts (notice, I am not saying perfect, just the closest to it we can get, so far) do not need the overbright lights. In fact I show clients the diamonds first in fluorescent light, the worst normal lighting condition that they will see, and then I turn on some flood lights that are a fraction of what you would get in a store, then I walk them into the hall, down the stairs and into a dark corner where even with just a hint of light coming over their shoulders the diamonds capture and return light in an amazing way. Then we walk outside and into the shade of a tree if it has leaves, or into the shade of the building to see the effect of the cutting in the sun and in the shade. Also if the diamond has any fluorescence, this is the time to see how wonderful it can look with that hint of blue that so many of my clients treasure.

I know many of the vendors for the best cuts do similar routines with their clients. This is ESPECIALLY ILLUSTRATIVE if you take along one of the lesser cuts for the ride. These invariably get handed back to me about half way through the ''tour'' and never asked for again.

Wink

I am glad you agree! As in the above post the word "perfection" managed to slip through...