Ideal vs. SuperIdeal?

[whatmeworry]

To play devil''s advocate. The surveying diamonds video that Leonid did shows that people''s preferences are all over the place. Whether you see a difference or not, depends on the individual. Just like color and clarity, buy what your comfort level (real or imagined) is.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 3/23/2008 6:56:09 PM
Author: DiaGem
I love the fact that Diamond illusion has such great power...

, thats what makes a Diamonds so special to each...one!
BTW..., our conversation was in regards to dog''s if I remember correctly..., no?

No, we were actually talking about ideal vs. excellent. I DID call some GIA EX/on the border, dogs. Because I know I could see the difference, and it would not be pretty. I''ll throw in, "imo" if it will make you feel better.


You said, and I quote, " most people do not see the difference between an AGS 5 or lower vs. a 0". I just don''t buy it. And Winks post lends itself to my disbelief.

Why is it so hard for you to entertain the thought that we CAN see the difference? Do you think we''ve all been brainwashed? Trust me, my hubby has not. He knows next to nothing about diamonds, except that they''re stupidly expensive. And yet, even HE can see the difference. We''re not making it up DiaGem, really.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 3/23/2008 7:10:26 PM
Author: whatmeworry
To play devil''s advocate. The surveying diamonds video that Leonid did shows that people''s preferences are all over the place. Whether you see a difference or not, depends on the individual. Just like color and clarity, buy what your comfort level (real or imagined) is.

that was shot under near ideal conditions too not see any differences, repeat it under different lighting and you would get different results.

 

[diagem]

Date: 3/23/2008 7:16:15 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 3/23/2008 6:56:09 PM
Author: DiaGem
I love the fact that Diamond illusion has such great power...

, thats what makes a Diamonds so special to each...one!
BTW..., our conversation was in regards to dog''s if I remember correctly..., no?

No, we were actually talking about ideal vs. excellent. I DID call some GIA EX/on the border, dogs. Because I know I could see the difference, and it would not be pretty. I''ll throw in, ''imo'' if it will make you feel better.


You said, and I quote, '' most people do not see the difference between an AGS 5 or lower vs. a 0''. I just don''t buy it. And Winks post lends itself to my disbelief.

Why is it so hard for you to entertain the thought that we CAN see the difference? Do you think we''ve all been brainwashed? Trust me, my hubby has not. He knows next to nothing about diamonds, except that they''re stupidly expensive. And yet, even HE can see the difference. We''re not making it up DiaGem, really.

Ellen..., please when quoting me in the future..., quote the whole sentence!

I said..."Most people do not see a difference between an AGS 5 or lower vs. 0

Confused? Hey..., most Diamonds in this world are not cut to PS standards...,

"

And I strongly stand by this sentence..., you are a pro if I compare you to the average consumer..., believe me I wish most consumers would have the knowledge you or other educated PS''ers have..., hell..., it would make a part of my job much easier and more fun! I am not a great story-teller as some other sellers are...

Its not in my nature!

But I really find it pretty thin to claim the average Joe will notice the difference between a (what you and others call) SuperIdeal vs. another very good cut just by noticing a bit of leakage! Sorry...

Its not just a matter of being hard to entertain the thought..., its way more complicated than that!

 

[whatmeworry]

Date: 3/23/2008 7:25:27 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 3/23/2008 7:10:26 PM

Author: whatmeworry

To play devil''s advocate. The surveying diamonds video that Leonid did shows that people''s preferences are all over the place. Whether you see a difference or not, depends on the individual. Just like color and clarity, buy what your comfort level (real or imagined) is.

that was shot under near ideal conditions too not see any differences, repeat it under different lighting and you would get different results.

Like Oldminer says, you want them to all look the same evaluate them in the dark.
Diffused daylight seems like a fair test to me.
I agree that if you used different lighting you would get different results.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 3/23/2008 7:33:56 PM
Author: DiaGem
Ellen..., please when quoting me in the future..., quote the whole sentence!

I said...''Most people do not see a difference between an AGS 5 or lower vs. 0

Confused? Hey..., most Diamonds in this world are not cut to PS standards...,

''

And I strongly stand by this sentence..., you are a pro if I compare you to the average consumer..., believe me I wish most consumers would have the knowledge you or other educated PS''ers have..., hell..., it would make a part of my job much easier and more fun! I am not a great story-teller as some other sellers are...

Its not in my nature!

But I really find it pretty thin to claim the average Joe will notice the difference between a (what you and others call) SuperIdeal vs. another very good cut just by noticing a bit of leakage! Sorry...

Its not just a matter of being hard to entertain the thought..., its way more complicated than that!

Howdy DG :}
I see where you are coming from, most people don''t even care too see the difference between AGS0 and AGS5 they just want the cheapest stone they can get that will make who they are buying it for happy.
Show them 4 diamonds and say this one(don''t mention its a dog) is 33% less and a lot of people will find something too convince themselves its the best looking.
Do so in lighting that makes any diamond look good and you can sell dogs all day long.

But I think that most people can be trained quickly too spot minor difference if they want too.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 3/23/2008 7:03:03 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 3/23/2008 6:31:47 PM

Wink

I am glad you agree! As in the above post the word ''perfection'' managed to slip through...

I went back to look and can not find it. It could be I used the word, but I do not see it and will be happy to look at it in context if you show it to me.

Wink

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 3/23/2008 7:43:15 PM
Author: whatmeworry

Like Oldminer says, you want them to all look the same evaluate them in the dark.
Diffused daylight seems like a fair test to me.
I agree that if you used different lighting you would get different results.

living room lighting would be a more fair test followed by office fluorescent lighting.

 

[diagem]

Date: 3/23/2008 7:48:15 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 3/23/2008 7:03:03 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 3/23/2008 6:31:47 PM

Wink

I am glad you agree! As in the above post the word ''perfection'' managed to slip through...

I went back to look and can not find it. It could be I used the word, but I do not see it and will be happy to look at it in context if you show it to me.

Wink

Since you asked...

Here ya go...

"Even if it were only a mind clean thing, much like the D-IF, it would have value to know that the diamond you owned was carefully and precisely cut to the best perfection and tightest tolerances that could be obtained by man."

 

[Ellen]

Date: 3/23/2008 7:33:56 PM
Author: DiaGem
Ellen..., please when quoting me in the future..., quote the whole sentence!

I said...''Most people do not see a difference between an AGS 5 or lower vs. 0

Confused? Hey..., most Diamonds in this world are not cut to PS standards...,

''

And I strongly stand by this sentence..., you are a pro if I compare you to the average consumer..., believe me I wish most consumers would have the knowledge you or other educated PS''ers have..., hell..., it would make a part of my job much easier and more fun! I am not a great story-teller as some other sellers are...

Its not in my nature!

But I really find it pretty thin to claim the average Joe will notice the difference between a (what you and others call) SuperIdeal vs. another very good cut just by noticing a bit of leakage! Sorry...

Its not just a matter of being hard to entertain the thought..., its way more complicated than that!

I did quote the whole sentence DiaGem. When copying, please include all punctuations.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ideal-vs-excellent.80843/

Ok, so you find it hard to believe that some could see the difference between ideal and "super" ideal. Or an ideal and a GIA Ex on the border. No one''s going to convince you, I get it. You and I, and those who do see the difference, will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[diagem]

Date: 3/23/2008 7:47:48 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 3/23/2008 7:33:56 PM
Author: DiaGem
Ellen..., please when quoting me in the future..., quote the whole sentence!

I said...''Most people do not see a difference between an AGS 5 or lower vs. 0

Confused? Hey..., most Diamonds in this world are not cut to PS standards...,

''

And I strongly stand by this sentence..., you are a pro if I compare you to the average consumer..., believe me I wish most consumers would have the knowledge you or other educated PS''ers have..., hell..., it would make a part of my job much easier and more fun! I am not a great story-teller as some other sellers are...

Its not in my nature!

But I really find it pretty thin to claim the average Joe will notice the difference between a (what you and others call) SuperIdeal vs. another very good cut just by noticing a bit of leakage! Sorry...

Its not just a matter of being hard to entertain the thought..., its way more complicated than that!

Howdy DG :}
I see where you are coming from, most people don''t even care too see the difference between AGS0 and AGS5 they just want the cheapest stone they can get that will make who they are buying it for happy.
Show them 4 diamonds and say this one(don''t mention its a dog) is 33% less and a lot of people will find something too convince themselves its the best looking.
Do so in lighting that makes any diamond look good and you can sell dogs all day long.

But I think that most people can be trained quickly too spot minor difference if they want too.

Also..., but most people will not connect the fact that a great stone with great symmetry equals best looking or even beautiful!

Hey..., I dont think SuperIdeals or even as you guys categorize them as super tight RB''s are the only factors to a Diamonds beauty! They have to do with performance but thats another point!

Yes..., you can get humans trained to a lot of things quickly....

, the question is what and under what agenda or interests!!

Storm..., its much easier to market consistent and good performing Diamond cuts on the Internet! Thats why RB''s are selling much easier than fancy shapes!

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 3/23/2008 7:33:56 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 3/23/2008 7:16:15 PM

Author: Ellen

Date: 3/23/2008 6:56:09 PM

Author: DiaGem

I love the fact that Diamond illusion has such great power...

, thats what makes a Diamonds so special to each...one!

BTW..., our conversation was in regards to dog''s if I remember correctly..., no?

You said, and I quote, '' most people do not see the difference between an AGS 5 or lower vs. a 0''. I just don''t buy it. And Winks post lends itself to my disbelief.

Why is it so hard for you to entertain the thought that we CAN see the difference? Do you think we''ve all been brainwashed? Trust me, my hubby has not. He knows next to nothing about diamonds, except that they''re stupidly expensive. And yet, even HE can see the difference. We''re not making it up DiaGem, really.

Ellen..., please when quoting me in the future..., quote the whole sentence!


I said...''Most people do not see a difference between an AGS 5 or lower vs. 0

Confused? Hey..., most Diamonds in this world are not cut to PS standards...,

''



And I strongly stand by this sentence..., you are a pro if I compare you to the average consumer..., believe me I wish most consumers would have the knowledge you or other educated PS''ers have..., hell..., it would make a part of my job much easier and more fun! I am not a great story-teller as some other sellers are...

Its not in my nature!

But I really find it pretty thin to claim the average Joe will notice the difference between a (what you and others call) SuperIdeal vs. another very good cut just by noticing a bit of leakage! Sorry...

Its not just a matter of being hard to entertain the thought..., its way more complicated than that!

Are you calling an AGS5 a very good cut? If so then no wonder we are having problems communicating.

I keep one poorly cut third here that I bought from a mall store with an EGL cert just so I can show people how poor a diamond can look when it is not cut properly. I have no idea what it would grade, surely much worse than a 5, but I also have stones here that would easily be AGS 4''s and 5''s if they had been graded by AGS and they are easily seen by even the most rookie observer as not as pretty as the AGS 0''s and 1''s that I show them. (All AGS0 light return with some polish problems that some diamonds have along certain directions, here we agree, some polish deductions are hard to find even with a microscope, let alone with the eye.)

I might agree than many people have a problem seeing the difference between a light return 0 and a light return 1, or 2, but by the time you get to a 3 light return there is something about the stone that is not as pretty as the 0 light return to even a new observer when the stones are observed side by side.

It is not the leakage that they notice, they would not have a clue what that is. It is just the beauty to the eye that they notice. Some stones have it, some don''t, and them that don''t just can not have it by wishing they did, or by being over illuminated. Once the heat of the bright lights is gone, so is the apparent beauty that they did not deserve in the first place.

It is NOT the story that makes the stone beautiful it is the cutting. The story as you call it is just the words to help illuminate the reasons for the beauty. With the very well crafted and finished diamonds, it is the pride in workmanship that goes with the results that might make the beauty more meaningful to the buyer, but the beauty is what really makes the difference. That my words can neither hide nor enhance.

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 3/23/2008 7:47:48 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 3/23/2008 7:33:56 PM

Author: DiaGem

Ellen..., please when quoting me in the future..., quote the whole sentence!


I said...''Most people do not see a difference between an AGS 5 or lower vs. 0

Confused? Hey..., most Diamonds in this world are not cut to PS standards...,

''



And I strongly stand by this sentence..., you are a pro if I compare you to the average consumer..., believe me I wish most consumers would have the knowledge you or other educated PS''ers have..., hell..., it would make a part of my job much easier and more fun! I am not a great story-teller as some other sellers are...

Its not in my nature!

But I really find it pretty thin to claim the average Joe will notice the difference between a (what you and others call) SuperIdeal vs. another very good cut just by noticing a bit of leakage! Sorry...

Its not just a matter of being hard to entertain the thought..., its way more complicated than that!

Howdy DG :}

I see where you are coming from, most people don''t even care too see the difference between AGS0 and AGS5 they just want the cheapest stone they can get that will make who they are buying it for happy.

Show them 4 diamonds and say this one(don''t mention its a dog) is 33% less and a lot of people will find something too convince themselves its the best looking.

Do so in lighting that makes any diamond look good and you can sell dogs all day long.


But I think that most people can be trained quickly too spot minor difference if they want too.

I don''t know Storm just what is happening to me today, this is at least the third or fourth time today I have agreed with you and can not find anything to argue about. I think I will go lay down now...

Wink

 

[diagem]

Date: 3/23/2008 7:57:05 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 3/23/2008 7:33:56 PM
Author: DiaGem
Ellen..., please when quoting me in the future..., quote the whole sentence!

I said...''Most people do not see a difference between an AGS 5 or lower vs. 0

Confused? Hey..., most Diamonds in this world are not cut to PS standards...,

''

And I strongly stand by this sentence..., you are a pro if I compare you to the average consumer..., believe me I wish most consumers would have the knowledge you or other educated PS''ers have..., hell..., it would make a part of my job much easier and more fun! I am not a great story-teller as some other sellers are...

Its not in my nature!

But I really find it pretty thin to claim the average Joe will notice the difference between a (what you and others call) SuperIdeal vs. another very good cut just by noticing a bit of leakage! Sorry...

Its not just a matter of being hard to entertain the thought..., its way more complicated than that!

I did quote the whole sentence DiaGem. When copying, please include all punctuations.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ideal-vs-excellent.80843/

Ok, so you find it hard to believe that some could see the difference between ideal and ''super'' ideal. Or an ideal and a GIA Ex on the border. No one''s going to convince you, I get it. You and I, and those who do see the difference, will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Ellen..., are you going legal with me?

"some" is also too much...

The great majority will not notice the difference between a SuperIdeal or and Ideal and a GIA Ex.
Definitely not based on some major leaking..., remember all Diamond have leaking, even Super''s..., not to mention it the tilt position!

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 3/23/2008 7:51:18 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 3/23/2008 7:48:15 PM

Author: Wink

Date: 3/23/2008 7:03:03 PM

Author: DiaGem

Date: 3/23/2008 6:31:47 PM


Wink

I am glad you agree! As in the above post the word ''perfection'' managed to slip through...

I went back to look and can not find it. It could be I used the word, but I do not see it and will be happy to look at it in context if you show it to me.


Wink

Since you asked...


Here ya go...


''Even if it were only a mind clean thing, much like the D-IF, it would have value to know that the diamond you owned was carefully and precisely cut to the best perfection and tightest tolerances that could be obtained by man.''

Looks pretty good to me. Doing the best we can each and every time. Yep, I stand by that statement.

Wink

 

[Ellen]

DiaGem, I now know why they made this icon. So I could use it, right now.

And Wink, again, thank you.

 

[diagem]

Date: 3/23/2008 8:05:26 PM
Author: Wink

Are you calling an AGS5 a very good cut? If so then no wonder we are having problems communicating.

Wink..., what are the parameters that differentiate a AGS5 and a 0?

I keep one poorly cut third here that I bought from a mall store with an EGL cert just so I can show people how poor a diamond can look when it is not cut properly. I have no idea what it would grade, surely much worse than a 5, but I also have stones here that would easily be AGS 4''s and 5''s if they had been graded by AGS and they are easily seen by even the most rookie observer as not as pretty as the AGS 0''s and 1''s that I show them. (All AGS0 light return with some polish problems that some diamonds have along certain directions, here we agree, some polish deductions are hard to find even with a microscope, let alone with the eye.)

I might agree than many people have a problem seeing the difference between a light return 0 and a light return 1, or 2, but by the time you get to a 3 light return there is something about the stone that is not as pretty as the 0 light return to even a new observer when the stones are observed side by side.

It is not the leakage that they notice, they would not have a clue what that is. It is just the beauty to the eye that they notice. Some stones have it, some don''t, and them that don''t just can not have it by wishing they did, or by being over illuminated. Once the heat of the bright lights is gone, so is the apparent beauty that they did not deserve in the first place.

It is NOT the story that makes the stone beautiful it is the cutting. The story as you call it is just the words to help illuminate the reasons for the beauty. With the very well crafted and finished diamonds, it is the pride in workmanship that goes with the results that might make the beauty more meaningful to the buyer, but the beauty is what really makes the difference. That my words can neither hide nor enhance.

Wink

When you keep translating performance to beauty..., I agree with you on the communication problem we have!
I see Diamonds as beautiful objects..., I dont see a Diamond cut to a GemLab''s strict parameters more beautiful than a Diamond cut 300 years ago when these parameters were non-existent!

I think some fairly cut Diamonds are much prettier and more beautiful than any newly cut Diamonds cut to Laboratories strict parameters! Not to mention the character those possess which StrictCuts dont!

I know..., I am a weird bird in your world..., what can I do

 

[diagem]

Date: 3/23/2008 8:13:52 PM
Author: Ellen
DiaGem, I now know why they made this icon. So I could use it, right now.

And Wink, again, thank you.

Sorry...

 

[diagem]

Date: 3/23/2008 8:13:36 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 3/23/2008 7:51:18 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 3/23/2008 7:48:15 PM

Author: Wink

Date: 3/23/2008 7:03:03 PM

Author: DiaGem

Date: 3/23/2008 6:31:47 PM


Wink

I am glad you agree! As in the above post the word ''perfection'' managed to slip through...

I went back to look and can not find it. It could be I used the word, but I do not see it and will be happy to look at it in context if you show it to me.


Wink

Since you asked...


Here ya go...


''Even if it were only a mind clean thing, much like the D-IF, it would have value to know that the diamond you owned was carefully and precisely cut to the best perfection and tightest tolerances that could be obtained by man.''

Looks pretty good to me. Doing the best we can each and every time. Yep, I stand by that statement.

Wink

Ok..., but remember..., perfect, not to mention "the best perfection"..., does not exist (as of yet)..., I dont believe it ever will!

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 3/23/2008 8:24:00 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 3/23/2008 8:05:26 PM

Author: Wink


Are you calling an AGS5 a very good cut? If so then no wonder we are having problems communicating.


Wink..., what are the parameters that differentiate a AGS5 and a 0?


I keep one poorly cut third here that I bought from a mall store with an EGL cert just so I can show people how poor a diamond can look when it is not cut properly. I have no idea what it would grade, surely much worse than a 5, but I also have stones here that would easily be AGS 4''s and 5''s if they had been graded by AGS and they are easily seen by even the most rookie observer as not as pretty as the AGS 0''s and 1''s that I show them. (All AGS0 light return with some polish problems that some diamonds have along certain directions, here we agree, some polish deductions are hard to find even with a microscope, let alone with the eye.)


I might agree than many people have a problem seeing the difference between a light return 0 and a light return 1, or 2, but by the time you get to a 3 light return there is something about the stone that is not as pretty as the 0 light return to even a new observer when the stones are observed side by side.


It is not the leakage that they notice, they would not have a clue what that is. It is just the beauty to the eye that they notice. Some stones have it, some don''t, and them that don''t just can not have it by wishing they did, or by being over illuminated. Once the heat of the bright lights is gone, so is the apparent beauty that they did not deserve in the first place.


It is NOT the story that makes the stone beautiful it is the cutting. The story as you call it is just the words to help illuminate the reasons for the beauty. With the very well crafted and finished diamonds, it is the pride in workmanship that goes with the results that might make the beauty more meaningful to the buyer, but the beauty is what really makes the difference. That my words can neither hide nor enhance.


Wink

When you keep translating performance to beauty..., I agree with you on the communication problem we have!

I see Diamonds as beautiful objects..., I dont see a Diamond cut to a GemLab''s strict parameters more beautiful than a Diamond cut 300 years ago when these parameters were non-existent!


I think some fairly cut Diamonds are much prettier and more beautiful than any newly cut Diamonds cut to Laboratories strict parameters! Not to mention the character those possess which StrictCuts dont!


I know..., I am a weird bird in your world..., what can I do

Herein lies much of the problem. I am answering and talking about the original question, and you are talking about dogs and cats.

I love some of the Old European and Old Miner cuts that I have seen, many are truly gorgeous, but that is NOT the discussion we are having, or at least the one I thought we were having.

You want to talk old cuts and unusual cuts, I am not a master of that, nor even a very good student. I can appreciate their beauty also, but I make no claims to know just what exactly makes them beautiful. If you want to talk rounds, and rounds is what I am talking about, then let me emphatically state that I have NEVER seen an AGS5 or lower cut that looked any where near as beautiful as one of Paul''s, or (throw in name of favorite cutter of superdupercalifragilisticexpialadocious diamonds that you wish) AGS0''s. NEVER under any lighting conditions that allowed me to still see the diamond.

Now that I understand we are talking about seventeen different things I can go have my dinner in peace. But first I need to lay down, I am getting very confused. First Storm and I on total accord, what''s the fun of that, and now you tell me we have been talking elephants and zebras when I thought we were discussing watermelons and turkeys.

Wink

 

[diagem]

Date: 3/23/2008 8:33:18 PM
Author: Wink

Herein lies much of the problem. I am answering and talking about the original question, and you are talking about dogs and cats.

I love some of the Old European and Old Miner cuts that I have seen, many are truly gorgeous, but that is NOT the discussion we are having, or at least the one I thought we were having.

You want to talk old cuts and unusual cuts, I am not a master of that, nor even a very good student. I can appreciate their beauty also, but I make no claims to know just what exactly makes them beautiful. If you want to talk rounds, and rounds is what I am talking about, then let me emphatically state that I have NEVER seen an AGS5 or lower cut that looked any where near as beautiful as one of Paul''s, or (throw in name of favorite cutter of superdupercalifragilisticexpialadocious diamonds that you wish) AGS0''s. NEVER under any lighting conditions that allowed me to still see the diamond.

Now that I understand we are talking about seventeen different things I can go have my dinner in peace. But first I need to lay down, I am getting very confused. First Storm and I on total accord, what''s the fun of that, and now you tell me we have been talking elephants and zebras when I thought we were discussing watermelons and turkeys.

Wink

Wink..., no dog or cats or elephants or zebras nor watemelons and turkeys....

What are Old-European Cuts? Are they not RB''s? Now what would you think the average OEC Diamond grade at the AGS or GIA et al???

Let me know when you get the answer please....

Bon Appetit,

 

[Ellen]

Say good night Gracie.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 3/23/2008 8:13:52 PM
Author: Ellen
DiaGem, I now know why they made this icon. So I could use it, right now.

And Wink, again, thank you.

lol
You know I see where DG is coming from 100% I have totally different criteria of what a beautiful diamond is for rounds and asschers.
The work in different ways and their beauty comes from different things.

 

[dogmama]

Hi Allison,
Thank you very much for clarifying that. I was concerned that I was shopping around for something that was inferior! At least I know now to probably stick by AGS 0s as opposed to GIA Excellents. I also truly appreciate the DQR you included in your post. I kept checking back and forth looking for a clear answer to my question and you were one of the most informative.

To other PSers:
It has been interesting to listen to the great debate, but it definitely was not my intention to start one! I love how passionate all of your are, and reading your views has made my day!

Lily

 

[Dreamer_D]

I have a question for DiaGem, just so I understand you position: Are you saying that all diamonds are equally beautiful in your eyes, regardless of cut? I am just curious, not trying to catch you in something, it just seems from these few posts that you find beauty in them all... or if YOU personally don''t find beauty in them all, then someone else will...

DD

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 3/23/2008 8:43:08 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 3/23/2008 8:33:18 PM

Author: Wink


Herein lies much of the problem. I am answering and talking about the original question, and you are talking about dogs and cats.


I love some of the Old European and Old Miner cuts that I have seen, many are truly gorgeous, but that is NOT the discussion we are having, or at least the one I thought we were having.


You want to talk old cuts and unusual cuts, I am not a master of that, nor even a very good student. I can appreciate their beauty also, but I make no claims to know just what exactly makes them beautiful. If you want to talk rounds, and rounds is what I am talking about, then let me emphatically state that I have NEVER seen an AGS5 or lower cut that looked any where near as beautiful as one of Paul''s, or (throw in name of favorite cutter of superdupercalifragilisticexpialadocious diamonds that you wish) AGS0''s. NEVER under any lighting conditions that allowed me to still see the diamond.


Now that I understand we are talking about seventeen different things I can go have my dinner in peace. But first I need to lay down, I am getting very confused. First Storm and I on total accord, what''s the fun of that, and now you tell me we have been talking elephants and zebras when I thought we were discussing watermelons and turkeys.


Wink

Wink..., no dog or cats or elephants or zebras nor watemelons and turkeys....

What are Old-European Cuts? Are they not RB''s? Now what would you think the average OEC Diamond grade at the AGS or GIA et al???


Let me know when you get the answer please....


Bon Appetit,

Nope, not playing that game. I am talking modern round brilliant cuts, made to the highest standards, you are talking about zebras and elephants and penguins. Not even in the same discussion that we were talking about, yet you kept introducing them as if we were talking about modern round brilliant cuts. I answered a question about modern round brilliants and was mistaken in thinking you were responding about the same question.

Your discussion is for another thread in answer to another question, not this one. I stand by all of my statements as they pertain to the discussion at hand. I do not claim to be an expert or even moderately knowledgeable about the shapes and older style round brilliants you want to talk about so I will leave that discussion to those who are.

Wink

P.S. Now that I have had my nap and a good dinner, it is time for bed. Happy Easter to all those who celebrate it, and happy Sunday to those who don''t. It was a WONDERFUL day at the Wink House, with grandkids and great grandmoms and all levels of family in between. It was so good I was even in full accord with Storm on things we have disagreed with in the past and I finally figured out where DiaGem is coming from in his constant crusade against the stones I love. Now that will make for a good night''s sleep!

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 3/23/2008 10:25:05 PM
Author: lilythespitfire
Hi Allison,

Thank you very much for clarifying that. I was concerned that I was shopping around for something that was inferior! At least I know now to probably stick by AGS 0s as opposed to GIA Excellents. I also truly appreciate the DQR you included in your post. I kept checking back and forth looking for a clear answer to my question and you were one of the most informative.


To other PSers:

It has been interesting to listen to the great debate, but it definitely was not my intention to start one! I love how passionate all of your are, and reading your views has made my day!


Lily

LOL! Missed this earlier. You are welcome and thank you for starting this delightful thread. Not only you, but we learned many things today and that is always one of the goals of a happy life, to learn at least one thing or more every day to know that you are still going forward.

I hope your day was as blessed as ours.

Wink

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Very nice discussion and congrts to all for keepig it happy as well as informative.

Something I read about the use of the term ideal in Al Gilertsons book - it came into vogue after the US govt FTC outlawed the word "perfect" when associated with diamonds - it was in the 1930''s.

I guess Hearts on Fire were allowed to use it based on the additive "most"

However in 50 years there is no doubt more perfect and more ideal will be achieved, and the methods of measurement will be better than today.

Where will that leave our debate?

Was it Churchill who said "the further you look back into history, the further you can see into the future" or something like that?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 3/24/2008 2:01:28 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Very nice discussion and congrts to all for keepig it happy as well as informative.

Something I read about the use of the term ideal in Al Gilertsons book - it came into vogue after the US govt FTC outlawed the word 'perfect' when associated with diamonds - it was in the 1930's.

I guess Hearts on Fire were allowed to use it based on the additive 'most'

However in 50 years there is no doubt more perfect and more ideal will be achieved, and the methods of measurement will be better than today.

Where will that leave our debate?

Was it Churchill who said 'the further you look back into history, the further you can see into the future' or something like that?

I firmly believe that there is a better round cut out there than the RB and current extra facet variations and I'm working on finding it.
I have come close too beating it across the board with a mixed cut and it does beat out all but the best of the best RB's.
Contrast and dispersion are hard, light return is easy!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 3/24/2008 2:36:13 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 3/24/2008 2:01:28 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Very nice discussion and congrts to all for keepig it happy as well as informative.

Something I read about the use of the term ideal in Al Gilertsons book - it came into vogue after the US govt FTC outlawed the word ''perfect'' when associated with diamonds - it was in the 1930''s.

I guess Hearts on Fire were allowed to use it based on the additive ''most''

However in 50 years there is no doubt more perfect and more ideal will be achieved, and the methods of measurement will be better than today.

Where will that leave our debate?

Was it Churchill who said ''the further you look back into history, the further you can see into the future'' or something like that?

I firmly believe that there is a better round cut out there than the RB and current extra facet variations and I''m working on finding it.
I have come close too beating it across the board with a mixed cut and it does beat out all but the best of the best RB''s.
Contrast and dispersion are hard, light return is easy!

So that would an idealist cut, or a more than ideal cut, or........... a soupa doupa ideal cut?

Storm Sergey has said for many years that somone will do it. I promise publically any involement i have will not compromise your ownership rights - go man go!