If you have the option of being a stay at home mom, would you?

[leeenie]

Date: 2/13/2006 7:10:32 PM
Author: MINE!!
Ebree, Sorry.. posted both posts there. I used the Men Lie Cheat and Die thing for only part of my response.

When I say that I children (women or men) should have a choice after college to stay at home, it was with the intent of saying that I do not beleive that a child is being taught that she must go to school at get an education just to find a man to take care of her. It was more in the response and insinuatation that I beleive came from the comment of teagreen.

Date: 2/13/2006 5:21:48 PM
Author: teagreen
Should I encourage my daughter to study hard so she can go to a good college and snag a man who can support her and children so she can stay home? Is the woman's place still in the home? It sure seems like that is the mindset of many people (which I find personally scary)

Actually most of my post was based on the comment that somehow staying at home is preventing a child from understand that she has a voice in this world and that men do not control her decisions.. said like this...

teagreen
b] i don't think there is a plausible counterargument to that statement - if anyone has one, please share. if you think it's a good thing for the world to continue to be controlled by men and to effectively tell your daughters that they can't 'be' something (a senator, whatever), or that a woman's place is in the home (!), then that's your opinion too. but i don't think it's offensive for me to think that mothers staying at home affects the status of women in this country and in the world.>>>

I think it is absoultely ridiculous.. for all the reasons I have stated in my previous posts.

My question is why are the women who stay at home to be MOTHERS are the bad guys cause they choose and are able to stay at home with their children..... I am happy and I do not need to fight your crusade and if my children choose to do so.. that is what they will do.. cause it is their choice.

My children will feel the pressure of society .. to be be a good little crusader and work for the feminist cause.. she will be sucked into as well....just as we all have or were at one time or another, But I hope not so much that she does not recognize the prize for the sacrifice.

I agree that people need experience Ebree, you are absoultely correct! I agree 100%. I respect that this is what you choose. But I think (Not on your comments) that to assume that a woman is somehow oppressing other women by choosing her flesh and blood over a career is somewhat ignorant.

MINE, again, I invite you to answer why the powerful positions in the world are held by men. I can't think of another reason - can you?

I"m not saying it's the FAULT of mothers. It's not about fault. It's about CAUSE and EFFECT.
Your children don't have to be good little crusaders - whatever they choose to do is their decision, as it is for all of us. That doesn't change the fact that fewer women in workforce = much fewer women in power than men and fewer opportunities for women. Please tell me if you find a flaw in that statement, not a personal defense - it's not personal. I don't see how this is an offensive statement unless you're taking it personally. I think it's actually ignorant to NOT realize what is ACTUALLY going on IN THE WORLD when thinking about these issues. Do I think that you, personally, are oppressing other women by staying home? NO - that's not my point. I've already highlighted my point in bold above so I won't say it again. Do I think it's ideal or even plausible for individual women to "crusade" against the status quo? No - I'm just saying it like it is!

MINE (".... and I can only teach them that they can do and be anything without giving up their sense of motherhood,if they so choose.") and mrssalvo ("If anything, it's the opposite. have the career, kids, vacations, you can have it all"), if you know how to do these things please let me know. I honestly don't think it's possible and that's one of the things I'm trying to point out. Our society is not structured to allow this (work hours, etc) and that's one of the CAUSES of women quitting work. If you've made a choice and are happy about it, good for you. I just think this is a complex issue that lots of people just write off as simple because they need to be happy about their choice when there really IS no choice. Society makes us choose - career or kids. I'm not happy with either "choice."

 

[monarch64]

I just wanted to say that I think part of the reason women feel a stronger need to be the ones most involved with raising their children (rather than the father) probably has a lot to do with the fact that we are able (in many cases) to breast feed. Yes, we have breast pumps now, and we can be away from a child for hours at a time while still being able to feed it because of this marvelous invention, but the biological aspect of how our bodies are meant to function remains the same. Just another .02 of mine...

 

[MINE!!]

The powerful positions are held by men through simple history. Nothing more. Men have been in a powerhouse in society since right after the invasion of Norway and Christainity. Women have made strides in the previous years.. but just like a child, people tend to think that things are just going to change over night... and find blame in anyone that does not strive to make it happen NOW!!!!

TEAGREEN
I just don't see how I, as a woman, can knowledgeably make either choice and be completely (satisfied?) or (complete?)

I find this interesting because I (as a mother and a woman) am not the one questioning my satisfaction or how complete I am. But I can understand that perhaps this is something that you are torn on. One day you will know, as all women do when they have children. Do I want to be at home for this child or at work for this child.

 

[MINE!!]

Date: 2/13/2006 7:12:01 PM
Author: sevens one
that was beautiful

Aww Shucks.. Could be all the Dahl, Silverstein, and McBrantney..

 

[hlmr]

Date: 2/13/2006 7:39:33 PM
Author: MINE!!
The powerful positions are held by men through simple history. Nothing more. Men have been in a powerhouse in society since right after the invasion of Norway and Christainity. Women have made strides in the previous years.. but just like a child, people tend to think that things are just going to change over night... and find blame in anyone that does not strive to make it happen NOW!!!!

TEAGREEN
I just don''t see how I, as a woman, can knowledgeably make either choice and be completely (satisfied?) or (complete?)

I find this interesting because I (as a mother and a woman) am not the one questioning my satisfaction or how complete I am. But I can understand that perhaps this is something that you are torn on. One day you will know, as all women do when they have children. Do I want to be at home for this child or at work for this child.

Mine, I don''t think all women will necessarily feel the way you and I do when they have a baby. They may feel the maternal instinct and draw, to stay at home with their child, but they may be unhappy doing so. Some women are better mothers to their children when they work outside the home as well.

Again I say that until each of us are in that position, we cannot possibly know how we will feel.

Heather

 

[leeenie]

Date: 2/13/2006 7:39:33 PM
Author: MINE!!
The powerful positions are held by men through simple history. Nothing more. Men have been in a powerhouse in society since right after the invasion of Norway and Christainity. Women have made strides in the previous years.. but just like a child, people tend to think that things are just going to change over night... and find blame in anyone that does not strive to make it happen NOW!!!!

TEAGREEN
I just don''t see how I, as a woman, can knowledgeably make either choice and be completely (satisfied?) or (complete?)

I find this interesting because I (as a mother and a woman) am not the one questioning my satisfaction or how complete I am. But I can understand that perhaps this is something that you are torn on. One day you will know, as all women do when they have children. Do I want to be at home for this child or at work for this child.

If you read my post I said I am NOT BLAMING women. I never said I''m blaming women because it''s not happening now or that I think things should be able to change overnight.

Yes, history is a cause. And women staying home IS PART OF HISTORY and continues in the present day regardless of the opportunities that are AVAILABLE to women. I''m sounding like a broken record now so I''ll stop. I would also appreciate if my opinion, just because it differs from others and I don''t have children, is not characterized as that of a child. If anything, not recognizing cause and effect is what kids do.

I accidentally posted before I finished. If you go back to my last post, my point can be summarized as 1) women staying home is one CAUSE of the continuance of male-dominated society (DESPITE the opportunities available), which is one in which 2) I as a woman DON''T HAVE A CHOICE - CHOOSE CAREER OR CHOOSE KIDS. I cannot "do and be anything without giving up sense of motherhood."

 

[MINE!!]

Date: 2/13/2006 7:49:29 PM
Author: hlmr

Date: 2/13/2006 7:39:33 PM

Author: MINE!!

The powerful positions are held by men through simple history. Nothing more. Men have been in a powerhouse in society since right after the invasion of Norway and Christainity. Women have made strides in the previous years.. but just like a child, people tend to think that things are just going to change over night... and find blame in anyone that does not strive to make it happen NOW!!!!


TEAGREEN

I just don''t see how I, as a woman, can knowledgeably make either choice and be completely (satisfied?) or (complete?)


I find this interesting because I (as a mother and a woman) am not the one questioning my satisfaction or how complete I am. But I can understand that perhaps this is something that you are torn on. One day you will know, as all women do when they have children. Do I want to be at home for this child or at work for this child.

Mine, I don''t think all women will necessarily feel the way you and I do when they have a baby. They may feel the maternal instinct and draw, to stay at home with their child, but they may be unhappy doing so. Some women are better mothers to their children when they work outside the home as well.


Again I say that until each of us are in that position, we cannot possibly know how we will feel.


Heather

Yes Heather.... But I also said that they will know if they want to stay at home for this child or work for this child..

We are on the same page. I know not everyone has the same maternal draw...

 

[MINE!!]

Ok Teagreen.. truce truce.. you see the world very differently than I do and that is both our rights. We are both women who want what is BEST for women. We just see this as two different ways of accomplishment. I think though, in order to find peace, one has to find their own satisfaction and not place balme on those that choose otherwise for their own unrest.

You are right.. you cannot be a mother and have a career.. in your eyes. I hope that you find a way to be happy with your choices and not torn. We cannot have our cake and eat it to. Without sacrifice there is no result. Your idea of a career is a workplace.. mine is the career that I chose to watch my children grow. Your idea of a career involves a paycheck.. mine involves a soul.

 

[hlmr]

Date: 2/13/2006 7:54:36 PM
Author: MINE!!

Date: 2/13/2006 7:49:29 PM
Author: hlmr

Date: 2/13/2006 7:39:33 PM

Author: MINE!!

The powerful positions are held by men through simple history. Nothing more. Men have been in a powerhouse in society since right after the invasion of Norway and Christainity. Women have made strides in the previous years.. but just like a child, people tend to think that things are just going to change over night... and find blame in anyone that does not strive to make it happen NOW!!!!


TEAGREEN

I just don''t see how I, as a woman, can knowledgeably make either choice and be completely (satisfied?) or (complete?)


I find this interesting because I (as a mother and a woman) am not the one questioning my satisfaction or how complete I am. But I can understand that perhaps this is something that you are torn on. One day you will know, as all women do when they have children. Do I want to be at home for this child or at work for this child.

Mine, I don''t think all women will necessarily feel the way you and I do when they have a baby. They may feel the maternal instinct and draw, to stay at home with their child, but they may be unhappy doing so. Some women are better mothers to their children when they work outside the home as well.


Again I say that until each of us are in that position, we cannot possibly know how we will feel.


Heather

Yes Heather.... But I also said that they will know if they want to stay at home for this child or work for this child..

We are on the same page. I know not everyone has the same maternal draw...

Correct me if I am wrong, but I feel like you are saying this with a negative connotation, and I don''t think it is fair to make that kind of judgement.

 

[hlmr]

Date: 2/13/2006 7:58:53 PM
Author: MINE!!
Ok Teagreen.. truce truce.. you see the world very differently than I do and that is both our rights. We are both women who want what is BEST for women. We just see this as two different ways of accomplishment. I think though, in order to find peace, one has to find their own satisfaction and not place balme on those that choose otherwise for their own unrest.

You are right.. you cannot be a mother and have a career.. in your eyes. I hope that you find a way to be happy with your choices and not torn. We cannot have our cake and eat it to. Without sacrifice there is no result. Your idea of a career is a workplace.. mine is the career that I chose to watch my children grow. Your idea of a career involves a paycheck.. mine involves a soul.

So you are indeed making a judgement call.

 

[MINE!!]

Correct me if I am wrong.. But does teagreen not express her frustration that she beleives that SAHM are a one of the CAUSES a the plight of women today. So I think that I am right to say that she will decide along with OTHER women, whether they are going to sta y at home (if they can) for their children or WORK for their children.. for the cause of women, peace of mind or to get out of the house, whatever their reasons will be.

So I guess in a way.. I am correcting you on that one. You wanted to take it in a negative sense and did. I was actually not trying to be insulting in that sentence.

 

[MINE!!]

Date: 2/13/2006 8:05:13 PM
Author: hlmr

Date: 2/13/2006 7:58:53 PM

Author: MINE!!

Ok Teagreen.. truce truce.. you see the world very differently than I do and that is both our rights. We are both women who want what is BEST for women. We just see this as two different ways of accomplishment. I think though, in order to find peace, one has to find their own satisfaction and not place balme on those that choose otherwise for their own unrest.


You are right.. you cannot be a mother and have a career.. in your eyes. I hope that you find a way to be happy with your choices and not torn. We cannot have our cake and eat it to. Without sacrifice there is no result. Your idea of a career is a workplace.. mine is the career that I chose to watch my children grow. Your idea of a career involves a paycheck.. mine involves a soul.

So you are indeed making a judgement call.

LOL...that one was meant to be a little nasty...

But the definition of a career does involve a paycheck and a workplace. A career to me is a desk, staying at home involves a child. One pushes pencils, I push my children. One closes a deal, one goes to a soccer game.

 

[Kaleigh]

Truce!!

 

[Mara]

"But the definition of a career does involve a paycheck and a workplace. A career to me is a desk, staying at home involves a child. One pushes pencils, I push my children. One closes a deal, one goes to a soccer game."

____________________________________

Actually the definition of a career is whatever it means to any specific individual. One does not have to push pencils or have a workplace or a desk or a paycheck to want or to have a career.

Not everyone works to make money or to get ahead/climb the corporate ladder. I mentioned above I would love to own my own bookstore or flower shop becuase I can't imagine NOT working, I think I would get bored very fast, but this way it would be doing something that I love to do and it could still be considered a 'career'. Not for the money since I can't really see either of those being some huge million dollar lucrative deal. More for the love.

Some people love being lawyers or doctors, some love being educators. It does not mean that they are in the 'career' or field for the money or the prestige....some do it just because they love it.

MINE, you are judgemental when it comes to those who may think they want to work or not be a stay at home Mom, maybe it's because you feel you have had judgement passed on you or maybe you just feel like everyone should be like you, but I personally feel that the right decision for each individual is one to be RESPECTED even if you don't necessarily agree. Saying that one has a soul to stay at home and the other is just doing it for a paycheck is not respectful. Stay at home Mom's should be respected for their decision, and those who decide to work (for whatever reasons) should still be respected too, everyone is still a Mother at the end of the day trying to raise their children the best way they see fit. Everyone has to look in their own mirror at the end of the day and determine if they are doing what is best...and that is the beauty of individualism.

ETA: I find this whole thread interesting because Teagreen is just QUESTIONING what people think. Not saying one is right or wrong, but why you think that way? And could that thought process be a negative thing in one way (setting back women?) but a positive thing in another (raising a great child?)? There is no need to get so defensive over ONE way being the right way. I think that this kind of discussion benefts women, even those who don't have children but may be thinking about it....and the whole 'my way or the highway' kind of attitude doesn't really work out in a discussion like this. I find the exchange of ideas, experiences, etc interesting and refreshing because each opinion is valid.

 

[hlmr]

Date: 2/13/2006 8:13:58 PM
Author: MINE!!

Date: 2/13/2006 8:05:13 PM
Author: hlmr

Date: 2/13/2006 7:58:53 PM

Author: MINE!!

Ok Teagreen.. truce truce.. you see the world very differently than I do and that is both our rights. We are both women who want what is BEST for women. We just see this as two different ways of accomplishment. I think though, in order to find peace, one has to find their own satisfaction and not place balme on those that choose otherwise for their own unrest.


You are right.. you cannot be a mother and have a career.. in your eyes. I hope that you find a way to be happy with your choices and not torn. We cannot have our cake and eat it to. Without sacrifice there is no result. Your idea of a career is a workplace.. mine is the career that I chose to watch my children grow. Your idea of a career involves a paycheck.. mine involves a soul.

So you are indeed making a judgement call.

LOL...that one was meant to be a little nasty...

But the definition of a career does involve a paycheck and a workplace. A career to me is a desk, staying at home involves a child. One pushes pencils, I push my children. One closes a deal, one goes to a soccer game.

SAHM''s and working mom''s are not at the opposite ends of the spectrum as you suggest. A lot of mom''s in this day and age need to work outside the home not just for a paycheck but for a sense of fulfillment that they may not get 100% from staying at home. If this makes them better mom''s at the end of the day why is it so wrong? You are first a woman, then a mother, but you always remain both.

One thing I despise in parents is when they choose to live vicariously through their children - succeed where I have failed, get the best marks, believe only what I believe, etc., push, push, push. We all want the very best for our children but that doesn''t mean we can''t want the best for ourselves too. There CAN be a balance, especially right now in history. Sometimes it is better for educated, ambitious women to juggle both career and children. Not always but sometimes!!!

 

[MINE!!]

No, I think that women who want to work can and that is fine. I think that everyone has a choice and that is fine. I think that those who CHOSE to work and do is fine, I think that those who do not is fine. But I have read (for 4 pages) the judgement that women who stay at home are helping to keep women oppressed and to me.. THAT is a judgement. I could just as easily say that I beleive crime and poor grades are because women have gone into the work place.. which would be equally as ridiculous.

My career is my children, just as I pointed out. But the difference in what a career is to someone is .. well the difference. teagreen pointed out that she cannot have it all cause she cannot have a career and stay at home with her children. She expressed how she could not understand how any woman could choose either and be satisfied. So I made the reference to how I see the career and how others may see a career. Therefore I was recognizing the fact that people have differing opinions on what a career is.

I can see people who choose to work as showing my children that it can be done. But I refuse to be labeled a culprit to the supression and supposed regression of women, because I choose to stay at home.

 

[hlmr]

Date: 2/13/2006 8:35:24 PM
Author: MINE!!
No, I think that women who want to work can and that is fine. I think that everyone has a choice and that is fine. I think that those who CHOSE to work and do is fine, I think that those who do not is fine. But I have read (for 4 pages) the judgement that women who stay at home are helping to keep women oppressed and to me.. THAT is a judgement. I could just as easily say that I beleive crime and poor grades are because women have gone into the work place.. which would be equally as ridiculous.

My career is my children, just as I pointed out. But the difference in what a career is to someone is .. well the difference. teagreen pointed out that she cannot have it all cause she cannot have a career and stay at home with her children. She expressed how she could not understand how any woman could choose either and be satisfied. So I made the reference to how I see the career and how others may see a career. Therefore I was recognizing the fact that people have differing opinions on what a career is.

I can see people who choose to work as showing my children that it can be done. But I refuse to be labeled a culprit to the supression and supposed regression of women, because I choose to stay at home.

Agreed and let''s move on. Everyone will make their own choice, which will be right for them, when the time comes.

Heather

 

[Mara]

No one is labeling anyone else a culprit, teagreen is just throwing something out there that I personally think IS very interesting to MULL OVER if one can get past being offended or insulted by daydreaming on what she COULD BE insinuating (which to me is nothing, it's just speculation). While I personally don't care if women get ahead or go backwards based on this, it is interesting to think, well HMMM if more Moms are staying at home then what does that mean for the already male-dominated workplace? That is a really intriguing thought. If there are less women driven to stay in the workplace, will women fall behind in 'equality' yet again? Or maybe not because there are always going to be the career driven people who DON'T have kids, which there are alot of those right now as well...many women are deciding not to have them at all. So maybe it continues to balance itself out? On one hand I would hate to see womens lib go backwards if I stayed home with my potential kids, but on the other hand that would not make me want to stay in the career/workplace just to sock the men one for the women's team.

 

[leeenie]

Date: 2/13/2006 8:35:24 PM
Author: MINE!!
No, I think that women who want to work can and that is fine. I think that everyone has a choice and that is fine. I think that those who CHOSE to work and do is fine, I think that those who do not is fine. But I have read (for 4 pages) the judgement that women who stay at home are helping to keep women oppressed and to me.. THAT is a judgement. I could just as easily say that I beleive crime and poor grades are because women have gone into the work place.. which would be equally as ridiculous.

My career is my children, just as I pointed out. But the difference in what a career is to someone is .. well the difference. teagreen pointed out that she cannot have it all cause she cannot have a career and stay at home with her children. She expressed how she could not understand how any woman could choose either and be satisfied. So I made the reference to how I see the career and how others may see a career. Therefore I was recognizing the fact that people have differing opinions on what a career is.

I can see people who choose to work as showing my children that it can be done. But I refuse to be labeled a culprit to the supression and supposed regression of women, because I choose to stay at home.

MINE, I think you are simplifying the issue to make it go away when in reality there is no easy solution. Even if you think having a career can mean being a SAHM, which is an opinion you''re entitled to, that doesn''t change the fact that a woman still cannot have a career OUTSIDE the home AND be the kind of mother she would probably like to be. That is how I feel as someone having to make the "choice," and that is what I think it will be like for our children as well. You''re polarizing women who choose to have a career outside the home as choosing not to have a soul or follow their soul or whatever. That doesn''t make the issue go away - your kids are going to have to make the "choice" as well; does that mean if they want to have a career outside the home they will be giving up their or their childrens'' souls? If that is the case, why not be a teacher or social worker - why help one or two kids when you could help hundreds that arguably need more help?

The second point about causing regression of women I''m not going to rehash - I''ve spelled it out already multiple times and people will take what they will from it.

Mara, I agree that I would not force myself to stay in the workplace for the sole purpose of taking one for the team, and I don''t think anyone could, would, or should either. It just drives me crazy when people refuse to look beyond what their personal situations are and see the larger picture of this world that we live in, which is why I keep replying to this thread even though it makes me frustrated. Oh well, I''ll get over it

 

[ForteKitty]

I would love to be the primary bread-winner while my husband stays home with the kids, cooks, and clean. I hate cooking and cleaning, and I''m not too fond of kids. It''d be even better if he can physically give birth to them. Ha-ha!

 

[rainbowtrout]

OK kids!

Next hot topic: abortion!


OK, I''m kidding, although I would be interested in a civil thread about it.


Blah. I''m a bit tired, and all I can think of is a long post involving strategies of subversive power women have used to control situations in which they were subordinate throughout history--and how it would be interesting to reimagine a society where women''s power did not consist of rocking the king''s cradle but of actually being the queen.

Of course, IMO this becomes impossible bc except in rare situations the root of power is based in the physical ability to compel someone to do something. Of course, this could be argued--what about mental manipulation, traditionally ''feminine'' power and more naturally behind the scenes.

Hm, I doubt that made sense excpet in my head.

I''m off to write my paper about Fatima Mernissi and opression of women in modern Moroccan harems now...

A last word: as teagreen hinted at, I do feel that we have to be aware of the world surrounding our choice to stay at home. for most women it isn''t that great, and what does our choice mean in that light? I''m not saying to live your life differently, just to never forget.

 

[sarita]

Date: 2/13/2006 9:31:37 PM
Author: ForteKitty
I would love to be the primary bread-winner while my husband stays home with the kids, cooks, and clean. I hate cooking and cleaning, and I''m not too fond of kids. It''d be even better if he can physically give birth to them. Ha-ha!

This post cracked me up!

Okay, I will admit I have not read this entire thread, just the 1st page (I will another day, though, as I find it very interesting). I just wanted to throw my opinions in.

When I was younger, middle-school age actually, I was very feminist and proud to be. Staying home to raise kids and relying on a man to "take care" of me seemed so backwards. I wanted an equal playing ground, and I didn''t see how or even why a woman should be viewed as an equal if she was being relegated to only domestic things, not a breadwinner in any sense of the word. My mom was a single mother (dad paid child support most of the time, but would cut it off when my mom pissed him off or whatever) and I couldn''t envision myself being a stay-at-home mom. I didn''t see what the big deal was about anyway - working moms were just as much moms as stay at home moms, they just had it harder because they did both. At the same time, looking back when I was a little kid I remember being thrilled when my mom would take a day off or pick me up early. I wished it could be like that everyday. But I mostly thought of being a working mom in terms gender roles - at that age I didn''t really have child-rearing or the benefits to a family in mind.

As I got older I softened a lot and my views changed. I still pictured myself as a working mom though because that was what I knew. In highschool a friend once said something that I thought was very true that I had never considered before. It was to the effect of, in America we work so hard, are so career-driven/defined, and we spend so much time at work, with people staying later and later than ever before. By the time we get home, there is another person there with a whole day''s worth of events and stress to share with you... having two people coming home with each one''s own baggage would certainly make it more of a juggling act. If one of you could get by with not having to work, wouldn''t it make sense to for the extra time you could devote to the other person and your relationship, especially once you have a family? I dunno, at the time I thought it was very profound and I still kind of feel this way. I always thought of myself in terms of what I would do someday, like most of us think growing up. Being in a serious relationship though, that has changed. I think of our future together, which would include a family, as being paramount. I want to get my degree, and I''m sure I will eventually find my "path" (I work now, but it''s just a job), but I do not want to miss the important stuff when I have a child because I attempted to balance both. Besides the potential benefits to the child, I want to experience motherhood completely, and I''m looking forward to the shape my life would take discovering that.

I do think of the possible negatives that have been mentioned - losing my self-identity to some degree, losing my individuality/uniqueness or becoming dull and boring to my husband (my fiance has even gone so far to say that it wouldn''t be appealing to him, long-term anyway). I guess I think the biggest thing for me is that we think of being a homemaker in terms of selflessness, the ultimate sacrifice - putting your family''s needs and desires above your own. At the same time, if I were never to work outside the home, I imagine I would see my life at least to some degree in terms of giving in, selfishly in the sense that I was not challenging myself to do something with *my* life, not for my kids or my husband, or even really for me, but rather because I feel it is what I should do, and that everyone has a purpose in their life.

I sincerely hope I did not offend anyone with my thoughts - they are just that - and they are still being shaped on this matter. And this is all speculation as I do not yet have any kids of my own.

 

[larussel03]

In a perfect world, I would want to be a stay at home mom, at least till my kids were middle school aged.

In a perfect world I would also want to be a young mother, and have children in my 20''s.

Actually in my perfect fantasy world, my 20''s would last for 20 years rather than 10 so I could live out the first half of my 20''s establishing my carrer and going to clubs with my girls, then having children in my "mid" (2nd half) 20''s and being a young mom that was prepared to stay at home.

But since this world is not perfect, and I"m not perfect, I hope that by the time I''m ready to have children, if I still have to work, I can still be the best mother I can possibly be. I may need help, (in terms of nannys/day care etc) but I want to make sure my children have strong values and parents that are "there" as much as possible.

I guess it all depends on where I am financially when I have children. My more realistic hope is that I can stay at home long enough so that the children can speak well enough to express if they need something. If not, then I know I will make due and still be a good mother, the best that I can be, at least ; ).

Good thread : )

 

[pebbles]

Oh lordy did this get out of hand!

Bottom line is, until our society changes and makes the working enviorment more family friendly, women are going to have to make these hard choices. I don''t see it happening any time soon so unfortunately I think my own daughter is one day going to have to choose what she wants to do more.

How do you choose? I personally think when the time comes you heart will tell you what you really want to do. That''s what happened to me and to several of my friends. A couple of my friends went back to work who I was sure would be SAHMs; a couple stayed home that I thought for sure would go back to work. There is no right or wrong in this, only what is right or wrong for you, and your heart will never lie.

As far as why don''t more men stay home, I think that it''s still a novel idea because for how many years have men been conditioned to being the bread winner? I don''t see that radically changing any time soon. There are a few families where I live where the dad stays home and the mom works, and it is a great arrangement for them. Most men I know don''t want to stay home because that notion is much more overwhelming than any corporate job situation could be. My husband gets flusterd when I ask him to pick out an outfit for my daughter to wear.

I think the only other thing I can add is that is that some careers make it a lot easier to be a mom than others. I think that''s why so many women are in the health care arena (lends to part time work) or teaching (having the summers and holidays off with your kids). For a woman just graduating from high school or starting out in college that may think she wants to both have a family and work, I would suggest looking into these fieilds. There are others but these are the two off the top of my head that I can think of that make working and having a family easier.

 

[mrssalvo]

Hi Teagreen

You asked back on pg three if I know how to have it all, career, kids, vactions etc. and I didn't want to quote the whole section

I have many women in my life who have managed to "have it all" and feel very content. My step-mom had to work for many years when she was single and newly married to my dad. She's a lawyer. When my dad's income increased and she had the opportunity to stay home, she chose not too. She is able to do a lot of work from home, go into the office a couple of days a week and be at every practice and baseball game for my little brother (who's still in HS). She loves her job and is fullfilled by it. She is heavily involved in local politics and my dad almost had her convinced to run for city Mayor. She has a good income, lives in a nice neighborhood and doesn't feel like she lacks for anything. I see more women in powerful positions than anytime in US History. There is good chance our next President will be a woman. Doesn't get much higher up the power ladder than that. I also have friends that have been able to work, have kids, do the vacations and not feel like they are sacrificing anything. I will admit, most of them do not work 9-5. They are in healthcare, nurses, dental assistants, educators, or have freedom in their fields to be able to do what they need to for their kids. I think this is why many women are waiting until later in life to have kids. They are able to become more stable in the careers and it's easier to transition to working from home or part time when you've worked you way up in a company and established your repuation. Keeping an 'in" also helps you to be able to go back if you want to when the kids are in school. I agree with MINE that once you have kids you will be able to make the decision that's right for you. I hope you can find encouragement in finding ways to make all your dreams come true. There are ways juggle work and kids and not feel torn, but it's up to each individual to figure how how. I really don't think our sociaty is in danger of women going back in time and their presence dimishing in the workplace. Of course i am a SAHM so what do I know

ETA: the definition of having it all is also subjective. To some it's examples like I gave above. For me personally, it's being able to stay home with my kids and live a lifestyle I am comfortable with.

 

[hlmr]

What a great example mrssalvo.

Heather

 

[Caribou]

I didn't read through all of this..but I have to say that it bothers me that some people think of being a SAHM as a negative thing. If anything, I think that is the most important 'job' a mother or father could have. Regardless of what you're career is, if you are a parent than in my opinion, you're #1 job is to raise those kids..anything else taks a back seat. SAHM can do a lot to make their daughters and sons strong individuals.

My mom worked, because she had to (my parents divorced when I was very young) but also because she wanted too. When I have kids, I plan on quitting my job and taking care of them and the house while my husband goes to work. Who do I think will be missing out? Me or him? Quite frankly him....he'll potentially miss all the 'firsts'. I'd rather be there for those than in a 3 walled cubicle going to pointless meetings.

 

[roxy7]

Coming into this interesting discussion a little late, just thought I would add my .02 cents.

I think that some people are reacting in a defensive way to the subject, for whatever reason. I am a lawyer and am planning on working full time when my kids are young (hopefully at a job with flexible hours, 9-4 ) and then scaling down to part time. I think part of this stems from the fact that my mom was a stay at home mom until I was 12-13, and then she went to work full time and I did not think that it had a good effect on me that throughout my high school and teenage years, she literally wasn''t there for me, didn''t care about my grades, wasn''t giving me enough support, etc. I want to be there for my kids in the way that she wasn''t.

That being said, I think it is sad that people are so defensive about the subject. While I know that someone''s statement that "men cheat, die, and leave" was taken by some as insulting, I don''t think it was personal to anyone. I hate to admit it, but that was one of the very reasons that I decided to pursue a professional career -- I didn''t want to depend on anyone for my livliehood. Does that mean I look down on stay at home moms? Heck, no!! I admire them for their courage -- part of what fuels my career (besides my own ambitions) is FEAR of having a marriage fall apart, and I am not proud of myself basing major life decisions on fear.

So Mine, don''t feel (and I am not saying that you do feel this way) that just because someone else is a career woman that it means she is casting judgment on you. Personally, I am not casting judgment on you at all and I look up to you for what you do. But at the same time, I ask you not to think I am doing a career just because I want a Lexus (or in my case, an Acura). It doesn''t really have to do with greed for me, or even feminism.

I think there are major extremes with everything that will get people in trouble. I have a very good friend who never went to college, never did anything because she wanted to be a stay at home mom. She didn''t want to incur debt because she wanted to stay at home anyway. Now she is with a guy who doesn''t make enough to support a whole family, and she has to work. I wish for her sake that she had gone to school and gotten an education because I think she would have more options now.

Options -- I think that is the key for what I would like my kids to have. I would love for them (and me) to have the option to stay at home or work, whatever they choose. That is the real luxury -- having choices.

 

[fire&ice]

Well, having been on the outside looking in - I would have to chime in to say that SAHM is a career. You are the CEO of the family. I don't know of any SAHM who isn't in charge of nearly all the runnings of a household. Their husbands defer to them. The reason more men don't stay at home is that they lack the skills necessary for the job They can't multi-task, juggle personal relationships, juggle finances, know how to have someone bring home the bacon & then what to do with it.

It's interesting. All of my friends became SAHM to some extent. Now that their kids are older, many are going back to their careers part time - WITH OPEN ARMS from their employers or clients. If you can successfully run a household, you can handle just about anything. Makes you bullet proof.

As an aside, anyone can take their "career" to an extreme. The mother who lives vicariously through their children is the same personality type who is a workaholic who has nothing else in their life. Balance isn't in the vocabulary.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 2/15/2006 10:13:58 AM
Author: fire&ice
Well, having been on the outside looking in - I would have to chime in to say that SAHM is a career. You are the CEO of the family. I don''t know of any SAHM who isn''t in charge of nearly all the runnings of a household. Their husbands defer to them. The reason more men don''t stay at home is that they lack the skills necessary for the job They can''t multi-task, juggle personal relationships, juggle finances, know how to have someone bring home the bacon & then what to do with it.

It''s interesting. All of my friends became SAHM to some extent. Now that their kids are older, many are going back to their careers part time - WITH OPEN ARMS from their employers or clients. If you can successfully run a household, you can handle just about anything. Makes you bullet proof.

As an aside, anyone can take their ''career'' to an extreme. The mother who lives vicariously through their children is the same personality type who is a workaholic who has nothing else in their life. Balance isn''t in the vocabulary.

Well said F&I