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I'm back & so stressed out :( please help me; opinions on this stone?

S

sparklebling123

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 9, 2021
Messages
64
Long time... So where to begin... this whole upgrade as been an ordeal. What was supposed to be a happy occasion has turned out to be a headache and a huge stressor for me.

Sooo the diamond I originally asked for help with
(original posts:
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...u-please-tell-me-if-this-a-good-stone.267693/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-please-with-an-aset-image.267704/ )

didn't turn out as hoped; long (super stressful) story short... I got the ring. It was beautiful (the setting), but once I got home and wore for a few days in the real world I was completely unhappy. The very strong blue fluorescence completely bothered me. I could see it all the time (cloudy, rainy, sunny, overcast, in the house in different lighting, in the car, at night outside) and when I compared it to my other diamonds with no or faint fluorescence (even when UV did not activate the blue) my stone did not seem as crisp or clear. I was gutted, sad, anxious and super upset. I spent a few days crying and not knowing what to do. I was afraid to even tell my husband or my mother about my unhappiness after spending and saving so much $ for this ring.

After a few stressful days and sleepless nights, I decided to call my jeweler to tell him how unhappy I was (I hate confrontation or conflict so this was so hard for me). Which leads me where I am today. The jeweler agreed to swap the stone for another, but of course this is now costing a lot more money than expected. I am so mad and upset with myself, because of this error and believing the fluorescence would not affect the beauty of the stone, it is now costing me a lot more money than if I had originally just gone with another stone. I feel so upset, disheartened and defeated.
My husband keeps reminding me to be happy & thankful; at least we are able to swap the stone.

Anyways sorry for my novel, but I am hoping if you (pricescopers) would be so kind to PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE help me... would you be so nice to look at this alternative diamond for me? Can you tell me if this a good stone or a dud? I really can't make another error in selecting a stone.
@DejaWiz , @yssie , @flyingpig , @lovedogs, @Karl_K , @diamondseeker2006 you all were so helpful and nice to me last time I would appreciate if you could help me again.

I can't tell you how many tears, sleepless nights, stress and anxiety this whole thing as caused me... I wish I just listened to my gut initially and went with a different stone or even just cancelled the whole upgrade :(

GIA report/stats attached... Another note it scored a 3.2 on the HCA - :( Untitled.jpg
 
I don't think this option will be better. And I would be surprised if the fluor is something you can 'see' all the time. I expect something else about the stone is bugging you (e.g. inclusions), or perhaps that the stone is "milky" or "hazy". But essentially one cant see fluor without UV light (but if the stone is milky or hazy that would be visible).

Edit. It's possible that the stone is milky/hazy due to the v strong blue and E color. But the new stone you are considering wont be great IMHO because the cut less good. I dont think you need to avoid fluor entirely, but v strong in high colors can be risky.
 
Can you get photos & ASET on this one?
It might be a good one. Might not. No way to tell from just the report unfortunately.

Do you have any photos of what you were seeing? It is unexpected to hear that you were seeing it fluoresce literally all the time. Not unheard of, but definitely unexpected. Possible that it's fluorescing at other wavelengths in addition to the one GIA grades at. But I agree with @lovedogs - I think it's more likely that your eyes are picking up on some other characteristic, perhaps the combination of clouds and graining. Although in that case it's odd that your jeweller cleared the stone...

Can we step through the diamond equivalent of "have you tried turning it off and on again" real quick just to cross all that stuff off the checklist -
A) Confirmed it's the correct stone?
B) Stone is completely clean?
C) Nothing funky going on with the mounting that might be creating a whackadoo optical illusion?
 
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lovedogs said:
I don't think this option will be better. And I would be surprised if the fluor is something you can 'see' all the time. I expect something else about the stone is bugging you (e.g. inclusions), or perhaps that the stone is "milky" or "hazy". But essentially one cant see fluor without UV light (but if the stone is milky or hazy that would be visible).

Edit. It's possible that the stone is milky/hazy due to the v strong blue and E color. But the new stone you are considering wont be great IMHO because the cut less good. I dont think you need to avoid fluor entirely, but v strong in high colors can be risky.
Click to expand...

@lovedogs I don’t see the blue all the time, but a lot of the time. Maybe I was naive, but I thought it was only going to be a subtle blue hue sometimes outside & glow in black light. But the hue is present a lot of the time. Maybe because this VSB it is activated even with slight UV present because it even shows inside my house in certain lights. Other times the stone is beautiful & sparkly (no blue/violet glow), but I do notice even when the Fluor is not causing the blue hue and I look into the stone it isn’t as crisp or clean looking (maybe this is the hazy or cloudiness people mention about fluor stones??)
 
yssie said:
Can you get photos & ASET on this one?
It might be a good one. Might not. No way to tell from just the report unfortunately.

Do you have any photos of what you were seeing? It is unexpected to hear that you were seeing it fluoresce literally all the time. Not unheard of, but definitely unexpected. Possible that it's fluorescing at other wavelengths in addition to the one GIA grades at. But I agree with @lovedogs - I think it's more likely that your eyes are picking up on some other characteristic, perhaps the combination of clouds and graining. Although in that case it's odd that your jeweller cleared the stone...

Can we step through the diamond equivalent of "have you tried turning it off and on again" real quick just to cross all that stuff off the checklist -
A) Confirmed it's the correct stone?
B) Stone is completely clean?
C) Nothing funky going on with the mounting that might be creating a whackadoo optical illusion?
Click to expand...

Hi @yssie. I can ask for ASET & photos. I just wanted to ask your/psers opinions before even wasting time asking for them if the stone was a no go.

Here are pics.
1- showing the hue and how I don’t think it’s as crisp as the ring beside it. Inside at night in the kitchen 97B2BE42-B94D-42C8-9383-C45B0EAAFCBD.jpeg
2. Showing hue inside of the house (close to window)
352DB972-05CC-42CC-AC1E-BA5C590C8E2F.jpeg
3. Hue inside of car on a rainy day
98EA13C3-827C-419D-8333-073D6C075C3E.jpeg
4. Outside on a sunny day. I’m standing in shade. It looks beautiful & I like it when viewing it in these conditions.
036A22AC-F75E-4811-BAC5-B92461959113.png

As for checklist.
A. I’m pretty sure it’s the correct stone.
B. Maybe it’s dirty
C. don’t think it’s the mounting.
 
flyingpig said:
Regarding the original stone, it is not the strong fluo I did not like. It was the clouds and other stuff that were not shown.

Regarding this new one, we would like see the photo if available.
Click to expand...

I will ask for one & video. You think it has potential? Thank you
 
I'm left wondering if this is a Type IIb diamond after seeing your photos.

I urge you to ask your jeweler to source you a diamond that falls within the recommended proportion ranges.

Ideally, a 40.6-40.8° PA, 34.5-35.0° CA, 15-15.5% crown height, 54-57% table, around a 61-62% depth, and a thin to slightly thick girdle.
 
Interestingly, GIA was actually very careful to not draw a conclusive causal relationship between strong fluorescence and cloudiness/haziness. Complete opposite of what you often hear from jewellers and read here on PS. Here's the seminal paper:

There's no chemical reason that fluor alone should create any sort of haziness. However, I do think the industry has proved definitively that strong fluor in combination with other transparency-decreasing inclusions (clouds, wisps, graining) can become a problem. And I do see what you're talking about. Especially in your indoor photo on the receipt. No grease on a stone or mount is going to create that - that's fluor.

Yes, definitely worth getting ASET and video on the stone corresponding to the report in your initial post.

When you purchased the initial stone, did you have a chance to examine it indoors and outdoors in various types of lights? How long did you have the stone before you saw the overblue effect? Goal here is to help adjust the pre-purchase examination regimen to ensure the stone you exchange for is perfect for you long-term.
 
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DejaWiz said:
I'm left wondering if this is a Type IIb diamond after seeing your photos.

I urge you to ask your jeweler to source you a diamond that falls within the recommended proportion ranges.

Ideally, a 40.6-40.8° PA, 34.5-35.0° CA, 15-15.5% crown height, 54-57% table, around a 61-62% depth, and a thin to slightly thick girdle.
Click to expand...

Hi @DejaWiz. What is a Type IIb diamond ?
I will bring up the recommended proportions. I have to be honest, I feel like a bother and like I’ve been so “annoying” throughout the process; but I need to stop feeling This. I am paying a lot of $ and should freely voice my concerns and wishes.
 
My advice is to not take any of the proportions charts you that might see here or elsewhere to heart. They are extremely and needlessly limiting.
HCA is a much better rejection tool - and even it is liable to toss the baby out with the bathwater.
Beautiful stones do exist outside the proportions these sorts of charts usually tout. A great many, in fact. And on the flip side - those proportions don't guarantee a beautiful stone, you'll be asking for ASETs and photos/videos anyway.
If the reports didn't average and round such charts might have more utility. But given that they do average and round - for stones whose proportions might work it's a case of garbage in garbage out.
 
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sparklebling123 said:
Hi @DejaWiz. What is a Type IIb diamond ?
I will bring up the recommended proportions. I have to be honest, I feel like a bother and like I’ve been so “annoying” throughout the process; but I need to stop feeling This. I am paying a lot of $ and should freely voice my concerns and wishes.
Click to expand...

Type IIb means there is boron present in the crystalline lattice, which can (and usually does) make the diamond appear to have a faint blue undertone.

As for the recommended proportions, that's exactly what they are: recommended, not required. No matter what the proportions are, make it a personal requirement to see ASET or IdealScope images for assurance that there aren't any detrimental detractors. There have been some threads regarding diamonds that have drool-inducing specs on paper, but the advanced images revealed some serious light leakage issues.

Here's an example of a tight-spec diamond I assisted a gentleman with locating, whom ended up purchasing it and just received the ring yesterday...he can hardly wait to see the look on his soon-to-be's face when he presents it in the near future!

Show me the Bling - the Laboratory Grown version!

Just realized I never added my beauty to this thread: a 1.08 G VVS2 lab Distinctive Gem Heritage Round / AVR. Setting is a Zeghani ZR1199 setting custom ordered in 14k rose gold. Ring size 5.
www.pricescope.com
 
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yssie said:
Interestingly, GIA was actually very careful to not draw a conclusive causal relationship between strong fluorescence and cloudiness/haziness. Complete opposite of what you often hear from jewellers and read here on PS. Here's the seminal paper:

There's no chemical reason that fluor alone should create any sort of haziness. However, I do think the industry has proved definitively that strong fluor in combination with other transparency-decreasing inclusions (clouds, wisps, graining) can become a problem. And I do see what you're talking about. Especially in your indoor photo on the receipt. No grease on a stone or mount is going to create that - that's fluor.

Yes, definitely worth getting ASET and video on the stone corresponding to the report in your initial post.

When you purchased the initial stone, did you have a chance to examine it indoors and outdoors in various types of lights? How long did you have the stone before you saw the overblue effect? Goal here is to help adjust the pre-purchase examination regimen to ensure the stone you exchange for is perfect for you long-term.
Click to expand...

@yssie thank you for confirming what I am seeing is not my imagination. I will ask for the ASET & video.

when I purchased the initial stone unfortunately, I was unable to examine it indoors and outdoors in various types of lights; I so kick myself now for not insisting on it! Of course the day of our appointment it was pouring rain & it was just an off day; my children were acting up, my hubby was cranky and I was unable to fully focus on examining the stone how I wanted. The next time I will go just with my husband and insist on going outside (last time it was not an option). As well, it was not ideal viewing conditions; it was in a dim workshop and the other lighting was the jewelry store type so it was hard to pick up on anything off with the stone.
I noticed the overblue effect pretty quickly after. I would say the next day when I was able to view it without distractions (kids/hubby lol). Thank you for asking these questions and thinking of the pre-purchase exam. Do you have any suggestions to ensure a happy long term purchase?

-side note, I tried to contact you through louptroop to ask a question/comment; not sure if my email made its way to you :) I wasn't sure how to reach out; I read a few posts where members said louptroop was a way. Thank you again Yssie. You're always so kind as are other members. I'm so thankful for this community :)
 
yssie said:
My advice is to not take any of the proportions charts you that might see here or elsewhere to heart. They are extremely and needlessly limiting.
HCA is a much better rejection tool - and even it is liable to toss the baby out with the bathwater.
Beautiful stones do exist outside the proportions these sorts of charts usually tout. A great many, in fact. And on the flip side - those proportions don't guarantee a beautiful stone, you'll be asking for ASETs and photos/videos anyway.
If the reports didn't average and round such charts might have more utility. But given that they do average and round - for stones whose proportions might work it's a case of garbage in garbage out.
Click to expand...

thanks Yssie. I will remember to keep that in mind which to be honest I have (not limiting my options to strict proportions); a few of my pieces that I LOVE and I think are beautiful do not fall exactly into those charts.
Regarding the HCA. this current stone scores 3.2 is this concerning? (I will be asking for pics & ASETS to access further), but I thought for stones that score 2 and above we toss/reject?
 
Oh! Did you email? I’m terrible about checking my LT email when I’m not actively trying to sell something - I totally might have missed your note if you sent one to my LT account! I’ll check!

sparklebling123 said:
Regarding the HCA. this current stone scores 3.2 is this concerning? (I will be asking for pics & ASETS to access further), but I thought for stones that score 2 and above we toss/reject?
Click to expand...
HCA was originally created when buying online was a very new concept. Back then very little was known about diamond cut in general. Getting regular ol’ photos of a stone prior to online purchase was nearly impossible, forget videos and light reflector technology imaging. I think modern web protocols for video transmission might not even have existed back then!! HCA was invaluable back then because it allowed casual users (who on average had far less education than PSers have now thanks to the whole #CutThing being so new!) quickly sort through a large inventory and filter for only the promising stones.

That’s exactly what HCA does - it filters for promising stones. But that’s also all HCA does. A stone that scores under 2 may be a nice choice - more info required. A stone that scores over 2 is less likely to be a nice choice - for stones that are in the “close but not quite” range, let’s say under 3.5-4, images are still required to definitively prove it ugly!

Here’s the really critical thing to keep in mind though - a nice stone is a nice stone. A nice stone that hits all the proportions charts smack dab in the middle is not a nicer stone than a nice stone that “fails” HCA and proportions charts. A nice stone is a nice stone. Period. And nice stones can be definitively identified with photos and video and fine-grained tools like IS and ASET, no need for blunt force tools like HCA and charts.

That’s why I’m advising against worry here. Your vendor is able to provide photos and ASET images prior to purchase. We can weed out the OMG Run Away stones from just the proportions on the report, and for all candidates that aren’t OMG Run Away - the additional details your vendor is able to provide will give you much more useful information than HCA and proportions combo lists can.
 
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Re. Checking the stone out before you pony up the cash to take it home - I would definitely recommend looking at it in as many types of lights as you can find! I’ve found that folks can be a bit nervous about actually taking stones outdoors - understandably - windows to the rescue!

You can also ask to compare the stone with some others in-store. Take two or three stones (as similar in colour and size to yours as possible - but any stones are better than none, even if there’s nothing close available) on the office tour, through various lighting environments. Often subtleties like problematic clouds and personal performance preferences will come to light (pun not intended) quickest in head to head comparisons. Even if your sales associate does look at you like you’re sprouting a second head.

Try not to worry about taking photos. This is hard for me, the first thing I want to do is whip out the camera. But what your eyes see is much more important and much more honest than your camera’s interpretation. Unless there’s something specific that you’ve got questions about of course - in that case by all means.

And most importantly - if you don’t feel like you’ve examined it enough to be confident that you love it, don’t take it home. You can always say you need to mull it over and go back again for another look. If you do purchase, get all return/upgrade/trade-in policies in writing.

Wear a light grey top. Or white, if you don’t have light grey. Avoid yellow and brown!
 
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yssie said:
Oh! Did you email? I’m terrible about checking my LT email when I’m not actively trying to sell something - I totally might have missed your note if you sent one to my LT account! I’ll check!


HCA was originally created when buying online was a very new concept. Back then very little was known about diamond cut in general. Getting regular ol’ photos of a stone prior to online purchase was nearly impossible, forget videos and light reflector technology imaging. I think modern web protocols for video transmission might not even have existed back then!! HCA was invaluable back then because it allowed casual users (who on average had far less education than PSers have now thanks to the whole #CutThing being so new!) quickly sort through a large inventory and filter for only the promising stones.

That’s exactly what HCA does - it filters for promising stones. But that’s also all HCA does. A stone that scores under 2 may be a nice choice - more info required. A stone that scores over 2 is less likely to be a nice choice - for stones that are in the “close but not quite” range, let’s say under 3.5-4, images are still required to definitively prove it ugly!

Here’s the really critical thing to keep in mind though - a nice stone is a nice stone. A nice stone that hits all the proportions charts smack dab in the middle is not a nicer stone than a nice stone that “fails” HCA and proportions charts. A nice stone is a nice stone. Period. And nice stones can be definitively identified with photos and video and fine-grained tools like IS and ASET, no need for blunt force tools like HCA and charts.

That’s why I’m advising against worry here. Your vendor is able to provide photos and ASET images prior to purchase. We can weed out the OMG Run Away stones from just the proportions on the report, and for all candidates that aren’t OMG Run Away - the additional details your vendor is able to provide will give you much more useful information than HCA and proportions combo lists can.
Click to expand...

thank you for all this info; I am learning so much. I feel much more prepared this time.
 
yssie said:
Re. Checking the stone out before you pony up the cash to take it home - I would definitely recommend looking at it in as many types of lights as you can find! I’ve found that folks can be a bit nervous about actually taking stones outdoors - understandably - windows to the rescue!

You can also ask to compare the stone with some others in-store. Take two or three stones (as similar in colour and size to yours as possible - but any stones are better than none, even if there’s nothing close available) on the office tour, through various lighting environments. Often subtleties like problematic clouds and personal performance preferences will come to light (pun not intended) quickest in head to head comparisons. Even if your sales associate does look at you like you’re sprouting a second head.

Try not to worry about taking photos. This is hard for me, the first thing I want to do is whip out the camera. But what your eyes see is much more important and much more honest than your camera’s interpretation. Unless there’s something specific that you’ve got questions about of course - in that case by all means.

And most importantly - if you don’t feel like you’ve examined it enough to be confident that you love it, don’t take it home. You can always say you need to mull it over and go back again for another look. If you do purchase, get all return/upgrade/trade-in policies in writing.

Wear a light grey top. Or white, if you don’t have light grey. Avoid yellow and brown!
Click to expand...

great suggestions. I will do/keep all this in mind. I really do appreciate all your help and time
 
Hi Everyone. I have a video of the stone. I didn’t post it yesterday because the video quality was so poor. I have requested a better video, pics and ASET. But in the meantime here is the video.
Can you see anything or give opinions based on the poor quality video ?
@yssie @flyingpig & anyone else ?
 
sparklebling123 said:
Hi Everyone. I have a video of the stone. I didn’t post it yesterday because the video quality was so poor. I have requested a better video, pics and ASET. But in the meantime here is the video.
Can you see anything or give opinions based on the poor quality video ?
@yssie @flyingpig & anyone else ?
Click to expand...
I am not a fan of this one, sadly. I would look for a different option
 
@lovedogs @flying ugh I was hoping that stone would be a good alternative. I’m so done, exhausted, & stressed with this whole ordeal.
Here is another option offered . I think it’s a better cut stone and alternative; only hesitation is it’s smaller than I wanted.
Opinions?
 

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Not sure if it's the angle of the video or the 36 crown, but I am not liking this one either. @flyingpig am I seeing a video issue, or a true problem related to leakage?
 
Karl commented on these exact dimensions in an earlier thread:

36degree crown angle - opinions on this stone dimensions

Hi I’m looking for opinions on the dimensions of this stone: 1.5ct VS1 E colour Table 57% Depth 62.4 Crown angle 36 Pavilion angle 40.6 The only thing putting me off is the 36° crown angle. For me, it is a lot of money to spend and I want it to be perfect (well as good as I can’t afford!)...
www.pricescope.com
 
DejaWiz said:
Karl commented on these exact dimensions in an earlier thread:

36degree crown angle - opinions on this stone dimensions

Hi I’m looking for opinions on the dimensions of this stone: 1.5ct VS1 E colour Table 57% Depth 62.4 Crown angle 36 Pavilion angle 40.6 The only thing putting me off is the 36° crown angle. For me, it is a lot of money to spend and I want it to be perfect (well as good as I can’t afford!)...
www.pricescope.com
Click to expand...

Ok never mind. Scratch the 2.01 ct stone. I wasn’t thrilled about dropping size anyways. @DejaWiz did you see the video I posted of the 2.21ct, thoughts?
 
sparklebling123 said:
Ok never mind. Scratch the 2.01 ct stone. I wasn’t thrilled about dropping size anyways. @DejaWiz did you see the video I posted of the 2.21ct, thoughts?
Click to expand...

Yes, I sure did. I'm in the camp that is waiting for better videos and ASET due to the crown and pavilion angle pairing.
 
yssie said:
Veto from me as well.
Click to expand...

I guess I will be asking for different options to choose from :( . Hopefully the next options are promising. *sigh*

Any thoughts or opinions on the 2.01 ct?
 
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sparklebling123 said:
Hi Everyone. I have a video of the stone. I didn’t post it yesterday because the video quality was so poor. I have requested a better video, pics and ASET. But in the meantime here is the video.
Can you see anything or give opinions based on the poor quality video ?
@yssie @flyingpig & anyone else ?
Click to expand...

Veto from me as well.
Edit - the pavilion on this one is kind of a hot mess. What flyingpig already said.
 
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