Imitation

[coatimundi_org]

I really love this ring.

haha--just looked back at the other posts. TGal--you've got a lot of threads to sift through, woman!

ETA: You have pretty hands TGAl!!

 

[misspinky]

Date: 1/8/2009 10:06:22 PM
Author: TravelingGal
It''s in the bezelicious thread...I think the original post when I got the ring was really bad as far as photos go so the best photos are in the earring thread. Like I said, it''s a masculine ring. That''s why I love yours Coati...practical, yet FEMININE.


I''d say sorry for the threadjack, but this thread is already a way lost cause.

TGal I

your ring! One of my best friends has a similar Jeff Cooper with a princess in it and I love hers too!

 

[AGBF]

Whoa! Very nice! I''ll take one of those, after all!


Deb

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/8/2009 10:09:13 PM
Author: coatimundi

I really love this ring.

haha--just looked back at the other posts. TGal--you've got a lot of threads to sift through, woman!

ETA: You have pretty hands TGAl!!

Hahaha...well, then you love my mother's ring. Mine is in the background. Mine is more industrial than hers.

When we were picking stones, there were two to choose from. I bought the one we decided not to buy for my mother because she is a wonderful woman - and I lost her engagement ring (which had a tiny diamond in it) a long time ago. The setting was supposed to be a temp, but she claims to love it so it's still in that setting.

 

[MonkeyPie]

Date: 1/8/2009 10:07:50 PM
Author: geckodani

Here it is.... and I think it''s FABULOUS! So there.

ETA: May I just pluck those bezel studs right out of the picture and run away with them? Please?

And OMG. I am going to go copy it RIGHT FREAKING NOW.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/8/2009 9:57:10 PM
Author: PrettyBlues
I love your ring Tgal - maybe I should copy it!

ETA: In all seriousness, I actually DID want a Jeff Cooper ring, before I found Pricescope and when I thought I wanted a princess cut. But it is a different setting from what you have, and not what I would choose now. I guess you have better taste than I do

because I would definitely wear yours, but not what I had picked.

It''s actually much more delicate in real life than the photos. I thought I wanted a princess cut as well, but what I found out after I discovered PS was that what I wanted was a square, not a princess. The diamond in the setting is a cushion. Not too many people would pair a romantic cushion cut with the modern Jeff Cooper. Although I will say my cushion is not as romantic as the chunkier styles you see here. It''s much too precise (ex/ex and all).

Thank you though!

 

[coatimundi_org]

Date: 1/8/2009 10:18:44 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 1/8/2009 10:09:13 PM

Author: coatimundi

I really love this ring.


haha--just looked back at the other posts. TGal--you''ve got a lot of threads to sift through, woman!


ETA: You have pretty hands TGAl!!

Hahaha...well, then you love my mother''s ring. Mine is in the background. Mine is more industrial than hers.


When we were picking stones, there were two to choose from. I bought the one we decided not to buy for my mother because she is a wonderful woman - and I lost her engagement ring (which had a tiny diamond in it) a long time ago. The setting was supposed to be a temp, but she claims to love it so it''s still in that setting.

oooh! I love them both! You are a sweet daughter, Tgal.

I love your mom''s setting--and yours too--love the modern feel--not masculine at all!

 

[Harriet]

Back to the topic, please?

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/8/2009 10:24:33 PM
Author: Harriet
Back to the topic, please?

Apologies Harriet.

Back to topic: I''d be pissed off if after all this pic posting, you all ran off and copied my ring. Because I''d think you were stupid since it''s a stock setting you can buy at Robbins Brothers (which I didn''t, btw).

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 1/8/2009 10:20:50 PM
Author: MonkeyPie

Date: 1/8/2009 10:07:50 PM
Author: geckodani

Here it is.... and I think it's FABULOUS! So there.

ETA: May I just pluck those bezel studs right out of the picture and run away with them? Please?

And OMG. I am going to go copy it RIGHT FREAKING NOW.

It is beautiful and I love your bezel studs!!! Love the modern lines.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/8/2009 9:49:35 PM
Author: coatimundi

Date: 1/8/2009 9:33:49 PM
Author: PrettyBlues

Date: 1/8/2009 8:45:01 PM

Author: coatimundi

Date: 1/8/2009 8:34:06 PM


Author: Kaleigh

Date: 1/8/2009 8:23:24 PM



Author: Harriet



I have created a beast.

Nope, we are having good discussions. I am learning a lot.

I''m learning a lot too. Really been thinking about why this sort of thing bothers folks. I think that we are all inherently territorial, but it''s interesting to me that someone would want to claim ownership of someone else''s intellectual property. I understand being territorial about your own work, but not found objects--to me, that''s all ego.

I am learning a lot as well. Coati I think your thoughts are quite interesting on why we feel territorial about others work/ideas/designs. Why should I get to wear someone else''s creation, but then feel that no one else has the right to?

Thanks--It''s really stimulating me at the moment. I think some are more competitive than others. Just generally, I feel that some crave notoriety and don''t want to share. I create art with my husband, and I''m very territorial about our work--I''ve registered work, copyrighted etc., but it''s my property. I don''t claim other''s work as mine. Honestly, this reminds me of 5th grade, when a girl got the first pair of ''Guess'' jeans, and sulked for days when the rest of us emerged in them. A wedding ring has sentimental value, but really in the end it''s just a symbol. What does one ring have to do with another''s feelings? Especially when they had no part in the design? I just don''t get it.

I actually meant to respond to this (which is on topic) before all the Jeff Cooper talk happened.

Anyway, I do think it''s kind of natural for people to be territorial. Everyone wants to be unique. We follow fashion but somehow want to think of ourselves as having our own sense of style. Have you (meaning generally you, not you, Coati) ever been irritated when you bought a pair of shoes or something new to wear and a coworker or friend went out and bought something similar, if not exact? Most of us would be irritated. Because we are no longer unique, even though we did not design the item ourselves.

However, it IS different when it''s the Internet. How much enabling goes on here in PS? Anyone remember the crazy Balenciaga thread (which was pulled in the end)? No one seemed to care that others were copying on the Internet. Which is why I find this whole current issue so fascinating.

 

[indecisive]

The funny thing for me is that in all the times I looked at sg''s ring I barely noticed the setting because I am so in love with the center stone. Even if the setting is replicated her ring will still be unique because of the character of the facets of the stone. I think parrot''s ring is gorgeous but man... sg''s diamond

I think it is so disappointing to lose 2 members and all the pictures of a gorgeous ring because of this.

 

[Gayletmom]

Date: 1/8/2009 10:26:24 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 1/8/2009 10:24:33 PM

Author: Harriet

Back to the topic, please?

Apologies Harriet.


Back to topic: I''d be pissed off if after all this pic posting, you all ran off and copied my ring. Because I''d think you were stupid since it''s a stock setting you can buy at Robbins Brothers (which I didn''t, btw).

TG, you crack me up!

On topic: I am learning alot about how people feel about their jewelry. Mostly, though, I am learning that I need to start a folder!

 

[indecisive]

Date: 1/7/2009 8:24:09 PM
Author: musey

Date: 1/7/2009 7:26:48 PM
Author: musey
here are the things of mine that have been ''imitated'' through PS in the past year:

-2 people have gotten a ring with the same setting as my e-ring made, and cited me as their ''inspiration''
-5 (yes FIVE) people have bought the same wedding necklace that I got, after I posted about my arduous journey to find it (none of them would have seen it if not for me) and my deep love for its uniqueness (yes, it did bother me that that went somewhat out the window, but that''s the nature of consumerism)
-and-
-3 people have cited my wedding band as their inspiration to get a thin bezel band

Only one (yup) out of those 10 PSers ever said ''thanks musey!'' for inspiring their pieces.

OH, and not a one of them ''asked first'' as fiery suggested seemed to be the norm. There also was no courtesy ''sorry I copied you'' from any of them, if I remember correctly. And yet I wasn''t really bothered by any of that... so it seems to me that this has little to do with how the copier handles the copy-ee.

haha and wasn''t that necklace inspired/identical to the necklace in the hit tv show LOST?

 

[princesss]

Date: 1/8/2009 10:51:50 PM
Author: indecisive
The funny thing for me is that in all the times I looked at sg's ring I barely noticed the setting because I am so in love with the center stone. Even if the setting is replicated her ring will still be unique because of the character of the facets of the stone. I think parrot's ring is gorgeous but man... sg's diamond

I think it is so disappointing to lose 2 members and all the pictures of a gorgeous ring because of this.

DITTO! I didn't know SG's ring had side stones, either. I just can't stop staring at her center stone.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 1/8/2009 9:53:52 PM
Author: coatimundi

Date: 1/8/2009 9:37:41 PM

Author: canuk-gal

P.S. Coati--get your own barfer....

cheers--Sharon

Barf ON dude!!

Ha! Barfers 4 life!

 

[violet3]

Date: 1/8/2009 5:11:41 PM
Author: ringster
I was fighting the urge to post in this thread but I have to come and clear up a few things.

SG has not looked at these threads and I don''t blame her considering what I''ve seen from some posts.

I want to say bravo to those posters who were sensitive and empathetic enough to realize that there are TWO members whose feeling may have been hurt. One member who has been very helpful for several years and a real asset to the community especially when it comes to old cuts. I don''t know Parrot Tulips so I don''t know if her feelings were hurt or not and I will not presume either way.

I think those who have posted with certain assumptions need to take a step back and not just jump on a mob bandwagon. One thing I have seen happens on PS sometimes and which is not pretty ladies and gentlemen, is how easily one''s contributions to a site can be so easily disregarded and people can turn on you. It''s become a witch hunt and there are quite a few instigators who should be frankly ashamed of their behavior.

Harriet started this thread to talk about imitation and not about what happened with PT and SG. And she mentioned a few times that this should not be about SG or PT but some people still make it about SG in particular.

And sorry to say this Allison, I am very appalled by your posts because as a representative of a company that advertises in this forum, I don''t think some of your posts are appropriate. It is not for you to say if someone should or should not feel a certain way or how they should or should not act. I understand you talking about copyright or infringement issues related to jewelery but I really think that given the job title that is in your tagline, it is not appropriate for you to give your opinion on this. Talk about how you would feel but not how others should.

What I''d like to point out:
---------------------------

1) Parrot Tulip posted in RT and NOT SMTR. I am sure that posting in PT lent to much of the reason why the thread turned the way it did. I am in no way saying that PT brought this upon herself, I am just stating this as a fact.

2) Nowhere in Parrot Tulip''s post did it mention that this is an engagement ring or that she was just proposed to. So some of the responses to her post were perhaps made with the idea that this was just a RHR ring for PT. Again, I am in no way saying that PT brought this upon herself, I am just stating this as a fact.

3) There is a difference between being inspired by a ring and making an EXACT copy. The issue here was with EXACT copying SG''s ring and not that the ring was inspired by SG''s ring. Let''s be clear here, PT''s ring is an EXACT copy of SG''s ring and not an inspiration ring.

4) And PT did not take her pictures to any old jeweler. She happened to take her request to a jeweler who has seen SG''s ring in person and was very familiar with it (not that PT knew this at the time). Also to a jeweler who SG had a pretty good relationship with. Therefore, said jeweler was able to make an EXACT copy of SG''s ENGAGEMENT RING. PT even mentions this in her post :

''as Ari already knew the original owner and ring quite well''

I think this is quite different than someone taking pictures to some jeweler who is only going on the pictures to replicate the ring. Maybe you wouldn''t care but some people may feel like they were hit by a bus to have this information offhandedly mentioned to them and then to see it in their community forum.

5) Even though SG''s ring was not commissioned by her, it is an antique ring and not a Tiffany ring where you can get it anywhere. No it is probably not the only one out there but it is probably very very unique. Some people like antiques for the fact that they are unique. And more often than not they probably had to do alot of searching to find this special ring. So this adds to the equation as to how you would react to an EXACT copy being made of your ring.


The last thing I want to leave you with is this is not a cut and dry situation and that SG has every right to feel whatever she feels. You may not feel like you would feel the same way but I frankly don''t think SG knew she would feel the way she did until it happened. Lessons have been learned. I would hope that some courtesy could be given to her, some empathy and holding of judgment when not all of the info is known by you and when she obviously doesn''t want to discuss this here herself. I would hope that all of the help she has given others would count for something and not end this way.


Like Pandora, I''ve said my piece.

Fine, fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinions and feelings, including SurfGirl. However, like many pointed out....it is not an original design -- whether she bought it at tiffany''s or an antique store is a completely moot point. No one is at fault for replicating a design they found and really admired on THE INTERNET, particularly one that is not protected by any kind of reproduction rights whatsoever.

Putting that entire point aside, i pulled the picture of the original ring (thanks to whoever reposted it) and saying it is an exact replica is a completely rediculous statement. The two are not the same - they just aren''t. Look at the stinking proportions...pull up the pictures and really look at them...THEY ARE NOT THE SAME. Are they similar? yes. Are they both beautiful? yes. Was one inspired by the other? surely. absolutely. But like many have said before....nothing is completely original, and inspiration has to come from somewhere.

PT''s ring is not an exact replica of SGs ring - the center stone compared to the sidestones do not even look remotely the same and have completely different effect. In my opinion, they hardly look enough like one and other to be having this arugment in the first place.

As to the argument that Alj - or Allison - should be ashamed of her posts and/or herself is completely ludicrous - she has made VERY valid points in her posts and has been a long time member of this community - saying otherwise just looks like a "sour grapes" response to many well thought out and well articulated arguments.

 

[Green with Envy]

I think the topic of this thread is interesting because many have strong and different opinions on the original subject.. you know... the ORIGINAL topic...

"How would you feel about someone imitating your ring? How should you feel about someone imitating your ring?"

Of course it is inevitable that SG will be mentioned because we all know WHY Harriet started this thread... and I believe her intentions were good to move the discussion away from PT's thread. However, it is SAD SAD SAD that a few people seem to actually go out of their way to be mean spirited to SG when she has not posted one single thing on PS about the situation.

I'm not talking about those who disagreed with what we think is SG's reaction... but others who are just haters. You know who you are and it is pathetic.


Just another example of a very valuable and useful website which is tarnished when the mob mentality runs amok.


Soooooo...

I rationally can appreciate that imitation is the highest form of flattery... but until it happens to me I am not exactly sure what my reaction would be. In the case we are referring to... I would be proud to know I have the vintage original with the years of history while all others have copies. Sort of like owning an original Renoir or something.... lots of others might have the exact same thing hanging on the wall... but I would be proud that I have the first one. (or the first one that we know of...)

P.S. i agree that the ring looks similar... but no way exact. I love Ari and his work... but the ring is not the same because the proportions are clearly different. PT's side bagettes are longer and the center stone smaller so for me judging by one picture... it is very similar but not the same. I have no idea if that makes a difference to SG... but it is just not the same ring in my humble opinion.

 

[iheartscience]

I''m confused, Green With Envy. Who is being a hater? Who was being mean? I really think this thread has been civil. Everyone has their own opinions, and just because most people disagree with surfgirl doesn''t mean there''s a mob mentality.

 

[LaurenThePartier]

LOL, sorry GreenWithEnvy, I work with Salesforce everyday and was like "What''s Salesforce got to do with this thread?"

 

[Elmorton]

TGal - is it possible to explain the comparison to the Balenciaga thread without re-hashing it? I don''t remember the thread, but I do think you''re right that this topic has been nearly addictive to read because of the interesting question raised about territory/uniqueness. I really don''t have much experience with other cultures, but I remember in college I had a class in American history where the topic of "uniqueness" got practically violent - it''s so embedded in our culture to want to be "unique" that we''ll fight tooth and nail to preserve our own.

I usually think of those threads that pop up with the topic of "I just got engaged and I got a split shank and now my BFF wants a split shank too. Should I hate her? Cuz I do!" are petty and silly. And usually PSers say as much to the OP, but in a gentle, graceful way. But now I''m starting to see this in a different light (well, I still think it''s petty and silly, but I think posters in this thread have done much to look deeper into the surface of the emotions/legal issues/sentimentality/real vs. virtual etc).

I hate to say this...but part of the reason this whole thing has been so baffling is that I have so much respect for SG''s constant voice of reason through her posts - I keep on strangely hoping this was a horrible joke/sociology experiment that only a few PSers were in on or something. Is anybody secretly working on a soc thesis?!

 

[AGBF]

Date: 1/8/2009 10:58:41 PM
Author: Green with Envy



we all know WHY Harriet started this thread... and I believe her intentions were good to move the discussion away from PT''s thread.



However, it is SAD SAD SAD that a few people seem to actually go out of their way to be mean spirited to SF when she has not posted one single thing on PS about the situation.

I really like surfgirl and I do not want to be complicit in bashing her by being silent. Harriet did do the right thing to start a thread here. Surfgirl was a political ally to me during the last political wars and she worked hard for Obama. I honor her.


Deborah

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 1/8/2009 11:07:59 PM
Author: Elmorton
I hate to say this...but part of the reason this whole thing has been so baffling is that I have so much respect for SG''s constant voice of reason through her posts - I keep on strangely hoping this was a horrible joke/sociology experiment that only a few PSers were in on or something. Is anybody secretly working on a soc thesis?!

I agree, El-I thought the same thing.

 

[Green with Envy]

Date: 1/8/2009 11:06:31 PM
Author: LaurenThePartier
LOL, sorry GreenWithEnvy, I work with Salesforce everyday and was like ''What''s Salesforce got to do with this thread?''

Sorry... TYPO!!!

 

[Haven]

"How would you feel about someone imitating your ring? How should you feel about someone imitating your ring?"

I would feel great, but my ring is pretty standard so if I ever see anyone wearing one just like it, I''m certain it won''t be because they are imitating mine. And it is not for me to decide how others should feel, so I''m not going to go there.

I''ve thought about this for a while before posting, and I can only think of one instance when I''d be upset if someone imitated something of mine: my writing. But that would be plagiarism, and I suppose you can draw a parallel between that and imitating a designer''s ring. But if I was just the wearer or owner of some thing, I can''t imagine being upset.

El--I''ve enjoyed this thread for exactly the reason you stated, that it explores this idea of uniqueness. The idea that others'' choices can affect one''s uniqueness is extremely amusing, if you think about it.

 

[Green with Envy]

Date: 1/8/2009 11:03:41 PM
Author: thing2of2
I'm confused, Green With Envy. Who is being a hater? Who was being mean? I really think this thread has been civil. Everyone has their own opinions, and just because most people disagree with surfgirl doesn't mean there's a mob mentality.

I tried to specifically say that I was NOT talking about those who just disagreed with her because on some level I also disagree with her, or what we all assume she thinks.

The thing is... even if she has posted nothing... we all know she is UPSET and she is a valuable member of this community. I have empathy for PT and am glad we steered the discussion away from her thread- she deserves to have a beautiful ring like the rest of us. People can disagree with her reaction, but where is the empathy for SG?


I am disappointed that I can not admire her pictures... but she has every right to ask them to be pulled because they are her pics. Anyone who saved copies can use them for inspiration... but to tease and post pics of her ring when we know she wants them pulled. Along with other insensitive comments... it just is too much.

 

[PrettyBlues]

Date: 1/8/2009 11:07:59 PM
Author: Elmorton
TGal - is it possible to explain the comparison to the Balenciaga thread without re-hashing it? I don''t remember the thread, but I do think you''re right that this topic has been nearly addictive to read because of the interesting question raised about territory/uniqueness. I really don''t have much experience with other cultures, but I remember in college I had a class in American history where the topic of ''uniqueness'' got practically violent - it''s so embedded in our culture to want to be ''unique'' that we''ll fight tooth and nail to preserve our own.


I usually think of those threads that pop up with the topic of ''I just got engaged and I got a split shank and now my BFF wants a split shank too. Should I hate her? Cuz I do!'' are petty and silly. And usually PSers say as much to the OP, but in a gentle, graceful way. But now I''m starting to see this in a different light (well, I still think it''s petty and silly, but I think posters in this thread have done much to look deeper into the surface of the emotions/legal issues/sentimentality/real vs. virtual etc).


I hate to say this...but part of the reason this whole thing has been so baffling is that I have so much respect for SG''s constant voice of reason through her posts - I keep on strangely hoping this was a horrible joke/sociology experiment that only a few PSers were in on or something. Is anybody secretly working on a soc thesis?!

Elmorton, based on your class, is the idea that people want to be unique something that has been around a long time? I ask because I always imagined to be more of a recent thing, so I''m quite curious.

 

[ericad]

Date: 1/8/2009 6:31:35 PM
Author: coatimundi

Date: 1/8/2009 6:00:56 PM

Author: TravelingGal



*Making mental note to save Coati''s ring to my hard drive*

...but seriously, he''s already making several...copies--there''s plenty of room for them on PS.

LOL, add me to the confessional! I saved pics of SG''s ring for a long time and contemplated a repro of it for myself once, and more recently got a quote from James Meyer for...Coati''s ring! (I''m not that original, I confess). In the end I went a different route and created something all my own, but I never felt it wrong to copy SG''s setting since it''s not possible to go to the original "designer" to have it re-made (unlike the the James Meyer ring).

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 1/8/2009 11:28:32 PM
Author: Green with Envy

Date: 1/8/2009 11:03:41 PM

Author: thing2of2

I''m confused, Green With Envy. Who is being a hater? Who was being mean? I really think this thread has been civil. Everyone has their own opinions, and just because most people disagree with surfgirl doesn''t mean there''s a mob mentality.

I tried to specifically say that I was NOT talking about those who just disagreed with her because on some level I also disagree with her, or what we all assume she thinks.

The thing is... even if she has posted nothing... we all know she is UPSET and she is a valuable member of this community. I have empathy for PT and am glad we steered the discussion away from her thread- she deserves to have a beautiful ring like the rest of us. People can disagree with her reaction, but where is the empathy for SG?

I am disappointed that I can not admire her pictures... but she has every right to ask them to be pulled because they are her pics. Anyone who saved copies can use them for inspiration... but to tease and post pics of her ring when we know she wants them pulled. Along with other insensitive comments... it just is too much.

Well I''m sure that for many, since we have yet to hear from SG herself, it''s harder to have sympathy for her. Honestly, if she herself had posted about being upset instead of apparently sending others to "let us know" she was upset, there probably would be more sympathy. And I''m certainly not a hater of SG, and I don''t think anyone else here is, either.

I''m not sure if you made it through this whole long mess, but somewhere a few pages ago I posted that I have always enjoyed SG''s posts, and that I wished she would come back and post again. But that doesn''t mean I agree with this whole thing, and I think that''s probably how most people feel. (Although there I go speaking for others myself!)

As for the pictures, etc., I think people are just getting a little silly after 17 pages. But I''m the opposite of sensitive so I''m probably not the best person to judge what''s insensitive!

 

[iluvcarats]

Date: 1/8/2009 11:28:32 PM
Author: Green with Envy

Date: 1/8/2009 11:03:41 PM

Author: thing2of2

I''m confused, Green With Envy. Who is being a hater? Who was being mean? I really think this thread has been civil. Everyone has their own opinions, and just because most people disagree with surfgirl doesn''t mean there''s a mob mentality.

I tried to specifically say that I was NOT talking about those who just disagreed with her because on some level I also disagree with her, or what we all assume she thinks.


The thing is... even if she has posted nothing... we all know she is UPSET and she is a valuable member of this community. I have empathy for PT and am glad we steered the discussion away from her thread- she deserves to have a beautiful ring like the rest of us. People can disagree with her reaction, but where is the empathy for SG?



I am disappointed that I can not admire her pictures... but she has every right to ask them to be pulled because they are her pics. Anyone who saved copies can use them for inspiration... but to tease and post pics of her ring when we know she wants them pulled. Along with other insensitive comments... it just is too much.

Since I posted the picture, I guess you would be addressing me. So, I actually didn''t post it to be "mean" to surfgirl, but to let everyone see it again, as it is a beautiful ring.

However, I find this all very hypocritical since, as has been pointed out before, SG has always been a very vocal and opinionated member of this forum, (as well as very helpful and educational.) But there are some posts that stick out in my mind where she was very critical of the OP, telling them that they should go work in a homeless shelter so that they could know what was really important. And then she has a hissy fit because someone copies her engagement ring.
If someone else besides SG had pulled this stunt, I have a strong feeling we would have heard from her.