Imitation

[angeline]

Hey Surfgirl,

Just wanted to speak up now that I''ve heard your POV.

I totally get it that you can''t know how you would feel until things happen.

For everyone that says they could care less - that might be completely spot on - but you do never really know for sure until it happens.

There have been a couple of times (only two) when I was totally thrown by my reaction to a situation. I felt completely differently to how I always assumed I would feel. They were big things too, infidelity and infertility, and I thought I knew myself on issues that big.

I also initally thought, wow, I wouldn''t care about my ring being copied. But when I opened up PT''s thread to see what the fuss was all about, I could understand your initial reaction SG.

Anyways I also feel bad that PT''s thread was crashed.

So I''m starting to ramble I think. Just my .02c.

 

[risingsun]

Surfgirl~I appreciate your response to this sensitive topic. Of course, you have the right to your feelings and whether to express them or not. I do hope you will speak with your friends and let them know that their behavior did a disservice to both you and PT. I have always been able to speak openly with you and I was surprised and angry about the comments about PT's ring made on your behalf. I'm relieved that you were not involved in this incident. You have never had difficulty speaking up for yourself. I'm glad you came back to do so.

 

[canuk-gal]

Date: 1/9/2009 10:21:16 AM
Author: risingsun
Surfgirl~I appreciate your response to this sensitive topic. Of course, you have the right to your feelings and whether to express them or not. I do hope you will speak with your friends and let them know that their behavior did a disservice to both you and PT. I have always been able to speak openly with you and I was surprised and angry about the comments about PT''s ring made on your behalf. I''m relieved that you were not involved in this incident. You have never had difficulty speaking up for yourself. I''m glad you came back to do so.

HI:

Well said.

cheers--Sharon

 

[musey]

Date: 1/8/2009 10:55:14 PM
Author: indecisive

Date: 1/7/2009 8:24:09 PM
Author: musey

Date: 1/7/2009 7:26:48 PM
Author: musey
here are the things of mine that have been 'imitated' through PS in the past year:

-2 people have gotten a ring with the same setting as my e-ring made, and cited me as their 'inspiration'
-5 (yes FIVE) people have bought the same wedding necklace that I got, after I posted about my arduous journey to find it (none of them would have seen it if not for me) and my deep love for its uniqueness (yes, it did bother me that that went somewhat out the window, but that's the nature of consumerism)
-and-
-3 people have cited my wedding band as their inspiration to get a thin bezel band

Only one (yup) out of those 10 PSers ever said 'thanks musey!' for inspiring their pieces.

OH, and not a one of them 'asked first' as fiery suggested seemed to be the norm. There also was no courtesy 'sorry I copied you' from any of them, if I remember correctly. And yet I wasn't really bothered by any of that... so it seems to me that this has little to do with how the copier handles the copy-ee.

haha and wasn't that necklace inspired/identical to the necklace in the hit tv show LOST?

Yep, and that was part of the point (my point about imitation not upsetting me, as well as part of why I wanted it in the first place)! Not sure what you're getting at with your post?

The 'uniqueness' I was talking about was in terms of being used in a wedding, my difficulty in finding it, and the fact that its origin was a special thing for my husband and I - not the idea that it had never been seen anywhere before.

 

[musey]

Date: 1/9/2009 6:43:09 AM
Author: neatfreak
And just something to note, I think a HUGE part of all this drama surrounding this is NOT that SG was upset, but that PT's celebration thread was completely crashed and her happiness tainted by someone posting that SG was really upset with PT.

For what it's worth, I don't think this would have caused nearly the drama it did or have everyone so incensed if there had been no thread crashing.

Seems to be a situation of 'treat others the way you wish to be treated'. Before crashing someone else's celebration thread we should all think about how it would make us feel if it were OUR engagement thread.

Completely agreed... I kept trying to say this, but you summed it up more nicely than I did.

Surf, as I posted before, I never had an issue with you or your reaction. Your feelings are your own. I'm glad that you returned to speak your mind, and it makes every bit of sense to me.

Personally, my only issue with this whole debacle is the way that PT was treated. It wasn't warranted, in my opinion - regardless of whether or not copying the ring was an "okay" thing to do, it happened and she had no ill intentions in replicating your ring. She should never have been put in the position of feeling badly about her engagement ring. That's all.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 1/9/2009 10:21:16 AM
Author: risingsun
Surfgirl~I appreciate your response to this sensitive topic. Of course, you have the right to your feelings and whether to express them or not. I do hope you will speak with your friends and let them know that their behavior did a disservice to both you and PT. I have always been able to speak openly with you and I was surprised and angry about the comments about PT''s ring made on your behalf. I''m relieved that you were not involved in this incident. You have never had difficulty speaking up for yourself. I''m glad you came back to do so.

Ditto, well said.

 

[coatimundi_org]

SG--glad you came back and spoke. As Marian said, you have a right to your feelings.


But, others do not have the right to come crashing down on another person's happiness--not acceptable, and obviously not SG's fault.

Also, a very reputable vendor's name was dragged into this, and his actions were questioned in a disparaging way. We do not know his side of the story, nor do we know what communication has occurred between SG and him on the subject.

Date: 1/9/2009 2:07:47 AM
Author: surfgirl
I do think that Harriet's initial question bears further discussion because it brings up a lot of things that aren't really discussed here regarding ethics and things like that. I'll just leave it at that.

I think the "ethics" of this has been discussed. The topic of copyrights was dragged into this, and there was no copyright infringement involved. Do you mean the ethics of imitation? Is it unethical to copy? It's not my place to impose my personal ethics on others.

The only ethics that concern me now in this discussion are the issues surrounding slander, because a great vendor's actions were questioned without knowing the whole story.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 1/9/2009 10:55:19 AM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 1/9/2009 10:21:16 AM
Author: risingsun
Surfgirl~I appreciate your response to this sensitive topic. Of course, you have the right to your feelings and whether to express them or not. I do hope you will speak with your friends and let them know that their behavior did a disservice to both you and PT. I have always been able to speak openly with you and I was surprised and angry about the comments about PT''s ring made on your behalf. I''m relieved that you were not involved in this incident. You have never had difficulty speaking up for yourself. I''m glad you came back to do so.

Ditto, well said.

Thritto. Surfgirl''s ultimately not responsible for her friends'' actions. Maybe this is just a long overdue topic of discussion (re: imitation, reproduction etc.).

Surfgirl: I was thinking back to your original ring search & recalled that it "almost got away". When you think about *not* having the ring of your dreams, can you understand how difficult it would be to see the ring of your dreams that already belongs to someone else? If that happened to me I''m not sure if I''d fully consider the feelings of someone I don''t even know & probably will never encounter before pouncing on the opportunity to reproduce the ring as best as possible and have the ring of my dreams. Is it your belief that PT should have lived forever with her 2nd choice of e-ring out of some personal sense of courtesy/respect for a stranger? Or just that she not post about it on a site the original owner frequents? How far do the rights of one infringe on another? Antique collectors run into this type of thing constantly I imagine ... finding a lovely object that is quite rare only to see it later knocked off by Pottery Barn or something. How much does the *perception* of rareness have to do with the emotions around an object. Its all very interesting & very personal I suppose.

 

[coatimundi_org]

Date: 1/9/2009 11:21:44 AM
Author: decodelighted
Surfgirl: I was thinking back to your original ring search & recalled that it ''almost got away''. When you think about *not* having the ring of your dreams, can you understand how difficult it would be to see the ring of your dreams that already belongs to someone else? If that happened to me I''m not sure if I''d fully consider the feelings of someone I don''t even know & probably will never encounter before pouncing on the opportunity to reproduce the ring as best as possible and have the ring of my dreams. Is it your belief that PT should have lived forever with her 2nd choice of e-ring out of some personal sense of courtesy/respect for a stranger? Or just that she not post about it on a site the original owner frequents? How far do the rights of one infringe on another? Antique collectors run into this type of thing constantly I imagine ... finding a lovely object that is quite rare only to see it later knocked off by Pottery Barn or something. How much does the *perception* of rareness have to do with the emotions around an object. Its all very interesting & very personal I suppose.

Namaste had a great post about this.

Date: 1/9/2009 1:23:49 AM
Author: Namaste

As I see it, the desire to be unique is totally ego driven.

People go around trying to distinguish themselves from everyone else whether they do it with clothes, cars, knick-nacks around the house, or JEWELRY (ahem

) Nothin wrong with this though - it''s always nice to feel like you''re being YOU and that the things around you are expressing your personal tastes.


I guess it''s if these things start to control your identity is when you have a problem. Almost like you don''t want anyone to have anything exactly like you because it would mean that part of your identity is being stolen. This, of course, would be totally subconscious. No one would rationally and consciously think that part of their identity is gone because someone has the same ring (or same WHATEVER) as them. But I would say that''s where that ''pang'' of ''HEY that''s MINE! How dare you!'' would come from.


I think it''s just unreasonable to think that no one is going to share your taste in anything. And if you DO feel that pang of ''How dare you!'' then maybe think twice about it and look at it from a different perspective. And I would hope that as we get older and wiser this becomes easier (than it was in middle and HS).

Being able to control your ego is a sign of maturity..

 

[surfgirl]

I promised myself I would not post about this again and I will not after this post. But the way people interpret things to re construct something else sometimes doesn't jive with what is really at hand, and since I read NF's and RS's posts I just want to clarify something. In the end, the only thing I wish is that I could have slipped away more quietly, but please do not think for one minute that I regret that the person who copied my ring exactly now knows how upset this has made me, because I do not regret that. And if there was a way to tell her myself, I would have done so, and if she had known beforehand, the very personal reasons as to why this would upset me so much, I don't think she would have done it. That said, if you are going to do something like that, then you should be prepared to not assume you will have a parade of smiley emoticons rained back on you from the person you deliberately copied. She will never truly know what her actions have meant to me, but I think if my feelings were of interest, I would have been asked permission first, and if I said no, then a back up plan would have been in place (and for the record I would have said no to copying exactly, but I would have offered to shop with/for her so she could find her own unique piece, not a copy of my unique piece).

My friends are very dear friends, to me. And they are my friends in real life, not only online. And if speaking their minds, and speaking from their hearts about something controversial is a "disservice" to them and to me, then I/we are perhaps not in the right place anymore.

ETA: Namaste's post about ego is what I have pondered about for a while now. For quite some time I planned on taking down my threads, but I didn't pull the plug and I wondered why. I realized that it was about ego and enjoying what people wrote about my ering. I know that, it's not like I'm not that self aware that I don't get that. But I also have certain credo and if I was going to copy someone's unique piece, which I would not, I certainly would not post it at the same place as the original. But it all brings up another interesting point, which is the overwhelming cry here that somehow the copier's feelings seem more important than the person who who was copied. I would ask why that is? Is it because nobody here ever wants to be denied something simply because they "want" it? Is "wanting" enough to do something anyway, if you know it will upset the other person? Just something to consider as it's really, to me, at the bottom of all of this discussion. Where do you draw the line in your own personal ethics?

 

[Burk]

This has certainly turned into a great discussion that was probably long over due.

Surfgirl~It was great to hear from you. I''m sorry that your feelings were hurt and this has been so hard on you.

I agree with the others that no one should have the right to ruin another poster''s happiness. Kind of like I tell all my students "if you don''t have something nice to say, don''t say anything at all"

It''s hard to speculate on how any of us would feel in many situations until we are put in them, but I still feel I would be flattered if someone on PS wanted to replicate my ring. Who knows.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 1/9/2009 11:29:48 AM
Author: surfgirl
I promised myself I would not post about this again and I will not after this post. But the way people interpret things to re construct something else sometimes doesn't jive with what is really at hand, and since I read NF's and RS's posts I just want to clarify something. In the end, the only thing I wish is that I could have slipped away more quietly, but please do not think for one minute that I regret that the person who copied my ring exactly now knows how upset this has made me, because I do not regret that. And if there was a way to tell her myself, I would have done so, and if she had known beforehand, the very personal reasons as to why this would upset me so much, I don't think she would have done it. That said, if you are going to do something like that, then you should be prepared to not assume you will have a parade of smiley emoticons rained back on you from the person you deliberately copied. She will never truly know what her actions have meant to me, but I think if my feelings were of interest, I would have been asked permission first, and if I said no, then a back up plan would have been in place (and for the record I would have said no to copying exactly, but I would have offered to shop with/for her so she could find her own unique piece, not a copy of my unique piece).

My friends are very dear friends, to me. And they are my friends in real life, not only online. And if speaking their minds, and speaking from their hearts about something controversial is a 'disservice' to them and to me, then I/we are perhaps not in the right place anymore.

Perhaps it's not, after all. Only you can make that call .You are entitled to your feelings SG. But your expectations are another matter entirely. You posted many many detailed shots of a ring you purchased and did not design on a public site where ideas are shared and inspiration is rampant. The ring is not an exact copy, and even if it was... given how special it is to you, perhaps you should have considered the issue of imitation before you posted those pictures on here.

 

[coatimundi_org]

Date: 1/9/2009 11:29:48 AM
Author: surfgirl
but please do not think for one minute that I regret that the person who copied my ring exactly now knows how upset this has made me, because I do not regret that. And if there was a way to tell her myself, I would have done so, and if she had known beforehand, the very personal reasons as to why this would upset me so much, I don't think she would have done it. That said, if you are going to do something like that, then you should be prepared to not assume you will have a parade of smiley emoticons rained back on you from the person you deliberately copied. She will never truly know what her actions have meant to me, but I think if my feelings were of interest, I would have been asked permission first, and if I said no, then a back up plan would have been in place (and for the record I would have said no to copying exactly, but I would have offered to shop with/for her so she could find her own unique piece, not a copy of my unique piece).

Well, she certainly knows now, SG. See above post about ego.


...and any time one buys an antique piece, he/she should be aware that the piece may not be completely unique. One never knows how many could exist.

 

[onedrop]

SG: It''s great to hear from you on all of this. And I appreciate your feelings on the whole matter. As always, you made your opinions plain and I respect that.

However...(and I am not trying to pile on here) but is there more to this than is being said? I understand the sentimentality of finding *your* engagement ring, and that you want the piece to be unique to you. But why would you impose your will not to "copy" your ring on someone who fell in love with this design? Did PT know something before hand and go ahead anyway? I guess I am just missing something here....

 

[Ellen]

Date: 1/9/2009 12:48:24 AM
Author: Bliss
I echo AGBF... that clip was FUNNY.

The ''Harriet Singing Kumbaya'' clip was so disturbing and funny that I sent it to all of my friends... who now think I am a big weirdo! LOL!!!

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 1/9/2009 11:29:48 AM
Author: surfgirl

ETA: Namaste''s post about ego is what I have pondered about for a while now. For quite some time I planned on taking down my threads, but I didn''t pull the plug and I wondered why. I realized that it was about ego and enjoying what people wrote about my ering. I know that, it''s not like I''m not that self aware that I don''t get that. But I also have certain credo and if I was going to copy someone''s unique piece, which I would not, I certainly would not post it at the same place as the original. But it all brings up another interesting point, which is the overwhelming cry here that somehow the copier''s feelings seem more important than the person who who was copied. I would ask why that is? Is it because nobody here ever wants to be denied something simply because they ''want'' it? Is ''wanting'' enough to do something anyway, if you know it will upset the other person? Just something to consider as it''s really, to me, at the bottom of all of this discussion. Where do you draw the line in your own personal ethics?

The key to this to me is that it wasn''t **your** design to begin with. If it was, it would be a whole different ballgame IMO. How come you have the right to say that no one can copy a design that you didn''t create?

 

[Ellen]

Date: 1/9/2009 11:38:17 AM
Author: coatimundi

Date: 1/9/2009 11:29:48 AM
Author: surfgirl
but please do not think for one minute that I regret that the person who copied my ring exactly now knows how upset this has made me, because I do not regret that. And if there was a way to tell her myself, I would have done so, and if she had known beforehand, the very personal reasons as to why this would upset me so much, I don't think she would have done it. That said, if you are going to do something like that, then you should be prepared to not assume you will have a parade of smiley emoticons rained back on you from the person you deliberately copied. She will never truly know what her actions have meant to me, but I think if my feelings were of interest, I would have been asked permission first, and if I said no, then a back up plan would have been in place (and for the record I would have said no to copying exactly, but I would have offered to shop with/for her so she could find her own unique piece, not a copy of my unique piece).

Well, she certainly knows now, SG. See above post about ego.


...and any time one buys an antique piece, he/she should be aware that the piece may not be completely unique. One never knows how many could exist.

Yep. I said that in the very beginning. (should I quote myself?)

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/9/2009 11:29:48 AM
Author: surfgirl
I promised myself I would not post about this again and I will not after this post. But the way people interpret things to re construct something else sometimes doesn't jive with what is really at hand, and since I read NF's and RS's posts I just want to clarify something. In the end, the only thing I wish is that I could have slipped away more quietly, but please do not think for one minute that I regret that the person who copied my ring exactly now knows how upset this has made me, because I do not regret that. And if there was a way to tell her myself, I would have done so, and if she had known beforehand, the very personal reasons as to why this would upset me so much, I don't think she would have done it. That said, if you are going to do something like that, then you should be prepared to not assume you will have a parade of smiley emoticons rained back on you from the person you deliberately copied. She will never truly know what her actions have meant to me, but I think if my feelings were of interest, I would have been asked permission first, and if I said no, then a back up plan would have been in place (and for the record I would have said no to copying exactly, but I would have offered to shop with/for her so she could find her own unique piece, not a copy of my unique piece).

My friends are very dear friends, to me. And they are my friends in real life, not only online. And if speaking their minds, and speaking from their hearts about something controversial is a 'disservice' to them and to me, then I/we are perhaps not in the right place anymore.

Well, maybe I shouldn't be writing to someone who isn't going to post anymore. But shoulda coulda woulda...

After your initial post SG, I would completely agree that you are entitled to your feelings. No one can tell you how you should feel. It truly is what it is. And perhaps many of us will never know exactly how it feels to walk in your shoes at this moment. Because I would certainly agree that I had not seen a ring exactly like yours on PS, both before and after you posted it until PT's ring.

You were fortunate to find the ring of your dreams. We were all fortunate to share in your happiness when you chose to post it on a public forum. It is truly a beautiful ring and I wish you many many years of happiness wearing it.

I do find it rather unfortunate, however, that after all this, you and your friends cannot find it within yourselves to apologize to PT for raining on her engagement. I do not think it unreasonable, due to the spirit of this forum and why MOST of us share pics of our rings, that PT should have not assumed a parade of smiley icons. Trust me, I DO understand how someone could be taken aback initially. But as others have said, it may have been better to take a minute or ten and reflect on things, instead of being so upset over it to pull all pics and not stop friends from crashing other's happy engagement ring threads.

As to the point of speaking from their hearts and minds about something controversial...no one has an issue with that SG...and I hope that is clear. If by now, you and your friends do not see that crashing someone's engagement ring thread is extremely mean spirited (to someone to I am quite positive and no ill will when she used your ring as inspiration), then perhaps you are correct in saying that you and your friends may not be in the right place anymore.

 

[iheartscience]

Yes, I definitely feel like I am missing something as well. surfgirl, you're about as no nonsense as they come. I realize I don't know your very personal reasons for being so upset, so I can only speculate, but I'm still left thinking...it's just a ring. A symbolic ring, but still just a ring.

You have always been a voice of reason here on PS and this seems very out of character for you. Obviously I only know you from your posts here, but it seems very strange that you're so affected by a stranger having a similar ring to yours. Because the rings do look very different, regardless of what the intended effect was.

ETA that even if the rings did look exactly alike I still would never have seen this coming.

 

[princesss]

Date: 1/9/2009 11:48:30 AM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 1/9/2009 11:29:48 AM
Author: surfgirl

ETA: Namaste''s post about ego is what I have pondered about for a while now. For quite some time I planned on taking down my threads, but I didn''t pull the plug and I wondered why. I realized that it was about ego and enjoying what people wrote about my ering. I know that, it''s not like I''m not that self aware that I don''t get that. But I also have certain credo and if I was going to copy someone''s unique piece, which I would not, I certainly would not post it at the same place as the original. But it all brings up another interesting point, which is the overwhelming cry here that somehow the copier''s feelings seem more important than the person who who was copied. I would ask why that is? Is it because nobody here ever wants to be denied something simply because they ''want'' it? Is ''wanting'' enough to do something anyway, if you know it will upset the other person? Just something to consider as it''s really, to me, at the bottom of all of this discussion. Where do you draw the line in your own personal ethics?

The key to this to me is that it wasn''t **your** design to begin with. If it was, it would be a whole different ballgame IMO. How come you have the right to say that no one can copy a design that you didn''t create?

Ditto.

Personally, I''m sad that both of you were hurt, but I really feel for PT because she didn''t realize she was going to hurt you. She had no obligation to contact you and ask, nor does she have an obligation to hold to your personal credo of not posting a copy someplace the original is posted. I feel for you, but because I don''t own a piece as sentimental to me as your e-ring clearly is to you, I can''t relate as well.

 

[coatimundi_org]

Date: 1/9/2009 11:29:48 AM
Author: surfgirl

ETA: Namaste''s post about ego is what I have pondered about for a while now. For quite some time I planned on taking down my threads, but I didn''t pull the plug and I wondered why. I realized that it was about ego and enjoying what people wrote about my ering. I know that, it''s not like I''m not that self aware that I don''t get that. But I also have certain credo and if I was going to copy someone''s unique piece, which I would not, I certainly would not post it at the same place as the original. But it all brings up another interesting point, which is the overwhelming cry here that somehow the copier''s feelings seem more important than the person who who was copied. I would ask why that is? Is it because nobody here ever wants to be denied something simply because they ''want'' it? Is ''wanting'' enough to do something anyway, if you know it will upset the other person? Just something to consider as it''s really, to me, at the bottom of all of this discussion. Where do you draw the line in your own personal ethics?

haha! Well I''m not talking about the "ego" of posting a new ring, because I think with most, folks are just bursting with excitement. I''m talking about the EGO of telling another that they cannot make a ring that you(collective) didn''t DESIGN. Especially when they are a STRANGER to you. THAT kind of ego.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/9/2009 11:29:48 AM
Author: surfgirl
ETA: Namaste''s post about ego is what I have pondered about for a while now. For quite some time I planned on taking down my threads, but I didn''t pull the plug and I wondered why. I realized that it was about ego and enjoying what people wrote about my ering. I know that, it''s not like I''m not that self aware that I don''t get that. But I also have certain credo and if I was going to copy someone''s unique piece, which I would not, I certainly would not post it at the same place as the original. But it all brings up another interesting point, which is the overwhelming cry here that somehow the copier''s feelings seem more important than the person who who was copied. I would ask why that is? Is it because nobody here ever wants to be denied something simply because they ''want'' it? Is ''wanting'' enough to do something anyway, if you know it will upset the other person? Just something to consider as it''s really, to me, at the bottom of all of this discussion. Where do you draw the line in your own personal ethics?

SG, you''ve been on PS long enough to not be considered anywhere near a newbie. I applaud your credo...it would be nice if everyone was like that. But c''mon woman! Haven''t you seen time and time again rings pop up on SMTR from newbies who used PS rings as inspiration? Or folks drooling on PS over something, followed by pictures of other people owning the same thing or something similar? Whether it''s a stock piece, antique or something commissioned/designed, people come to this site for IDEAS AND INSPIRATION. They COPY! And then yes, many people follow up by posting pics!

The overwhelming cry on this thread was that PT''s thread was rudely crashed. The overwhelming cry was that as it was a piece in EXISTENCE, the owner would most likely have no rights to say it could not be copied. I did not see anywhere that people felt the copiers feelings are more important than the one copied.

SG, you may have real life friends who are feeling for you, but to the rest of us, this is the Internet! I know there are feelings behind faces, but I''m sorry! If someone in real life didn''t want me to copy her ring, I''d kind of get that. But someone on the Internet I''ve never met who doesn''t even live in the same CITY as me and who will most likely never see my ring in person? No, I would not let that person get in the way of the engagement ring that I would want to wear for the rest of my life!

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 1/9/2009 11:56:35 AM
Author: coatimundi

Date: 1/9/2009 11:29:48 AM

Author: surfgirl

ETA: Namaste''s post about ego is what I have pondered about for a while now. For quite some time I planned on taking down my threads, but I didn''t pull the plug and I wondered why. I realized that it was about ego and enjoying what people wrote about my ering. I know that, it''s not like I''m not that self aware that I don''t get that. But I also have certain credo and if I was going to copy someone''s unique piece, which I would not, I certainly would not post it at the same place as the original. But it all brings up another interesting point, which is the overwhelming cry here that somehow the copier''s feelings seem more important than the person who who was copied. I would ask why that is? Is it because nobody here ever wants to be denied something simply because they ''want'' it? Is ''wanting'' enough to do something anyway, if you know it will upset the other person? Just something to consider as it''s really, to me, at the bottom of all of this discussion. Where do you draw the line in your own personal ethics?

haha! Well I''m not talking about the ''ego'' of posting a new ring, because I think with most, folks are just bursting with excitement. I''m talking about the EGO of telling another that they cannot make a ring that you(collective) didn''t DESIGN. Especially when they are a STRANGER to you. THAT kind of ego.

Ditto. It seems beyond egotistical to presume that you have the right to control someone else''s jewelry choice.

 

[decodelighted]

Advancing the ball ....Now that we 100% know how peeved SG is going to be at further reproductions of her ring ... I wonder how many of us will still do it? Especially if she beats feet away from here as intimated? Would people really go out of their way to accommodate ghosts of posters past? If a tree falls in the woods blah blah ... Why would folks *not* proceed if they don''t think SG will be around checking/being hurt about it *anyway*? So many layers to this onion it makes me dizzy ...

 

[E B]

Date: 1/9/2009 11:29:48 AM
Author: surfgirl
I promised myself I would not post about this again and I will not after this post. But the way people interpret things to re construct something else sometimes doesn''t jive with what is really at hand, and since I read NF''s and RS''s posts I just want to clarify something. In the end, the only thing I wish is that I could have slipped away more quietly, but please do not think for one minute that I regret that the person who copied my ring exactly now knows how upset this has made me, because I do not regret that. And if there was a way to tell her myself, I would have done so, and if she had known beforehand, the very personal reasons as to why this would upset me so much, I don''t think she would have done it. That said, if you are going to do something like that, then you should be prepared to not assume you will have a parade of smiley emoticons rained back on you from the person you deliberately copied. She will never truly know what her actions have meant to me, but I think if my feelings were of interest, I would have been asked permission first, and if I said no, then a back up plan would have been in place (and for the record I would have said no to copying exactly, but I would have offered to shop with/for her so she could find her own unique piece, not a copy of my unique piece).

This I just don''t understand. What did telling PT on a public forum accomplish? It seems it didn''t make you feel much better and now, she''s afraid to post photos of a ring she made a) not out of malice and b) free and clear, as the design wasn''t an original. She might think of this every time she looks at her beloved engagement ring- was that the intent? As she doesn''t see you everyday, and probably won''t EVER run into you at any point, I can understand thinking it wouldn''t bother you. A gigantic fuss has been made, and what did any of it actually accomplish?

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/9/2009 12:03:25 PM
Author: decodelighted
Advancing the ball ....Now that we 100% know how peeved SG is going to be at further reproductions of her ring ... I wonder how many of us will still do it? Especially if she beats feet away from here as intimated? Would people really go out of their way to accommodate ghosts of posters past? If a tree falls in the woods blah blah ... Why would folks *not* proceed if they don''t think SG will be around checking/being hurt about it *anyway*? So many layers to this onion it makes me dizzy ...

So many layers of this onion, it makes me cry!

Good question though.

Well, since I am only going to copy Coati''s ring, I can''t say for sure.

But hypothetically, my answer is this.

If I wanted SG''s ring, I would still do it. I don''t know SG IRL and most likely I will never run into her (I say most likely because I know she does live in SoCal). I''m pretty sure there is at least 6 degrees of separation between us.

*If* SG continues to post here, then out of courtesy to her, I would NOT post pics on this site. But it would still not negate that the ring has been made and is in existence. If SG falls off the face of the planet on Pricescope, then I would consider posting pictures.

 

[Gypsy]

Ebree... the possible loss of two, and possibly more (if SG's friends are going to follow her suit) of our members.

Lovely.

ETA: Sorry, the 'posting it on the same site' arguement holds no water for me. SG doesn't own the site either, or have a right to dictates its contents. She CAN dictate the use of her photos-- within the boundaries of fair use. She owns the copyright to those. But short of that??? Frankly, as we've all said that there could be hundred's of copies of her ring we don't know about... the 'posting it on the same site' arguement just seems like it's grasping at straws to differentiate what PT did from the other faceless lurkers who may be walking around with rings like SG's now. Again, an attack at someone who did nothing wrong. SG has her code of ethics, great. But you know what... SG herself has violated MY code of ethics on here, and honestly so did Pandora in crashing PT's thread. What makes anyone's CODE OF ETHICS the one that's right on a public website?

 

[geckodani]

Date: 1/9/2009 11:52:37 AM
Author: thing2of2
Yes, I definitely feel like I am missing something as well. surfgirl, you''re about as no nonsense as they come. I realize I don''t know your very personal reasons for being so upset, so I can only speculate, but I''m still left thinking...it''s just a ring. A symbolic ring, but still just a ring.

You have always been a voice of reason here on PS and this seems very out of character for you. Obviously I only know you from your posts here, but it seems very strange that you''re so affected by a stranger having a similar ring to yours. Because the rings do look very different, regardless of what the intended effect was.

ETA that even if the rings did look exactly alike I still would never have seen this coming.

Agreed.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 1/9/2009 12:02:49 PM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 1/9/2009 11:56:35 AM
Author: coatimundi

Date: 1/9/2009 11:29:48 AM
Author: surfgirl
I realized that it was about ego and enjoying what people wrote about my ering. I know that, it''s not like I''m not that self aware that I don''t get that.

haha! Well I''m not talking about the ''ego'' of posting a new ring, because I think with most, folks are just bursting with excitement. I''m talking about the EGO of telling another that they cannot make a ring that you(collective) didn''t DESIGN. Especially when they are a STRANGER to you. THAT kind of ego.

Ditto. It seems beyond egotistical to presume that you have the right to control someone else''s jewelry choice.

Yup. I just realized what this all boils down to: control. And we can''t control our friends or other people''s jewelry decisions (even if we offer to help them find their own special pieces) OR, obviously, the credos of strangers.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/9/2009 12:09:56 PM
Author: Gypsy
Ebree... the possible loss of two, and possibly more (if SG's friends are going to follow her suit) of our members.

Lovely.

Ringster was already on the way out. SG had one foot out the door (as announced on ATW). As for Pandora...she needs to think twice about leaving because I want to see pics of that kid! I can GUARANTEE that I will not copy her kid!!!