Imitation

[CrookedRock]

Date: 1/9/2009 1:26:11 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

We have people on this forum right now facing brain surgery and possible heart surgery. We have people who are losing good jobs because of the economy. We''ve had a member lose precious twin boys. This makes me disgusted that we are here discussing someone being angry over a stupid inanimate object being reproduced!!!

Unreal.

That was my thought too! Seriously this has gotten lame.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 1/9/2009 1:37:31 PM
Author: Vix
Thing2of2 and Allison captured my thoughts/feelings/puzzlement best.

As Allison said,

Your feeling on this just feels so out of sync with the kind and direct person I''ve come to know through your postings. I am disappointed that it makes you somehow feel better PT has been told of your distress because I personally don''t think it accomplishes anything.

I don''t see how PT''s beautiful ring takes away from SG''s stunning, unique center stone -- one reason to HAVE an old cut stone! -- in its lovely, unusual-now-but-of-the-era setting.

And so I am left speculating that SG is so emotional because of Mr Surfgirl''s life-threatening illness or an impending/accomplished divorce -- both of which I certainly hope are NOT true and are instead the product of my over-active imagination.

Even if the above were true, it wouldn''t stop me from getting a copy of her ring made if I absolutely ''had'' to have it. I''d probably only forgo the homage because I like to think that my taste and items are highly unique too.

Ditto, Vix! I was thinking exactly the same thing as far as the reasons.

P.S. Wait, can I ditto you if you just dittoed me? Between coati''s empty self-quotes and Harriet singing Kumbaya, I''m not sure what''s right and what''s wrong anymore!

 

[Sizzle]

Date: 1/9/2009 12:08:50 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 1/9/2009 12:03:25 PM
Author: decodelighted
Advancing the ball ....Now that we 100% know how peeved SG is going to be at further reproductions of her ring ... I wonder how many of us will still do it? Especially if she beats feet away from here as intimated? Would people really go out of their way to accommodate ghosts of posters past? If a tree falls in the woods blah blah ... Why would folks *not* proceed if they don''t think SG will be around checking/being hurt about it *anyway*? So many layers to this onion it makes me dizzy ...

So many layers of this onion, it makes me cry!

Good question though.

Well, since I am only going to copy Coati''s ring, I can''t say for sure.

But hypothetically, my answer is this.

If I wanted SG''s ring, I would still do it. I don''t know SG IRL and most likely I will never run into her (I say most likely because I know she does live in SoCal). I''m pretty sure there is at least 6 degrees of separation between us.

*If* SG continues to post here, then out of courtesy to her, I would NOT post pics on this site. But it would still not negate that the ring has been made and is in existence. If SG falls off the face of the planet on Pricescope, then I would consider posting pictures.

I think you are entitled to post a photo of whatever belongs to you PERIOD. That ring was never SGs ring. It was a ring, that SG purchased, period. If you buy something and you want to show it off, I DAMN WELL want to see it!!!!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 1/9/2009 1:32:22 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 1/9/2009 1:26:11 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006


We have people on this forum right now facing brain surgery and possible heart surgery. We have people who are losing good jobs because of the economy. We''ve had a member lose precious twin boys.

And we have members who have lost loved ones, too. You have such a good heart. You are a treasure and the conscience of Pricescope. I should say one of the consciences of Pricescope; I shouldn''t shortchange the other good members. (Who can doubt Skippy''s goodness, for example?) Thank God (and I am not taking His name in vain) for members like you, diamondseeker .

Love,
Deb

Oh my goodness, Deb, you''re making me cry. That was a precious thing to say and I deeply appreciate it. Thank you, too, Linda!{{{hugs}}}

TGal, yes of course, you know I am sort of a jewelry addict and I am on here far too much! I just couldn''t see the overly irrational response by SG in the light of so many more important things going on in this community and the world! I do come here at times to escape the troubles in the world, believe me! But I think when one values a possession so much that they would hurt someone else when proudly displaying their e-ring, well, that''s just wrong.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/9/2009 1:40:55 PM
Author: CrookedRock

Date: 1/9/2009 1:26:11 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

We have people on this forum right now facing brain surgery and possible heart surgery. We have people who are losing good jobs because of the economy. We've had a member lose precious twin boys. This makes me disgusted that we are here discussing someone being angry over a stupid inanimate object being reproduced!!!

Unreal.

That was my thought too! Seriously this has gotten lame.

I agree the SG/PT issue is beating a dead horse at this point. And while I don't negate how all the events mentioned and more have touched the lives of hearts who have never met, this forum and first and foremost a diamond education forum. Everything else is gravy and a lovely benefit that the moderators of this site have allowed us a place to come and share more personal aspects of our lives.

As another poster pointed out, we have newbies now coming forth and asking permission to take photos of rings on this site to vendors. It's a valid question as to where the line should be drawn, if it can even be drawn at all.

Personally, I think it would be overkill to start having tons of posts titled, "You there, poster, can I take photos of your ring for inspiration?"

ETA, DS, I just saw your post and I understood what you were trying to say, but thanks for clarifying!

 

[Sizzle]

Date: 1/9/2009 1:11:17 PM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 1/9/2009 1:04:30 PM
Author: Namaste
Sorry to be confusing AGBF!

I found Surfgirls statement to be disheartening..

Date: 1/9/2009 11:29:48 AM
Author: surfgirl
but please do not think for one minute that I regret that the person who copied my ring exactly now knows how upset this has made me, because I do not regret that. And if there was a way to tell her myself, I would have done so, and if she had known beforehand, the very personal reasons as to why this would upset me so much, I don''t think she would have done it. That said, if you are going to do something like that, then you should be prepared to not assume you will have a parade of smiley emoticons rained back on you from the person you deliberately copied.

The key sentence is:

and if she had known beforehand, the very personal reasons as to why this would upset me so much, I don''t think she would have done it.

So is this what we are missing???

I think this is BS. If I wanted something and it was available to me I would probably have it made REGARDLESS of whatever personal reasons the other person stated. Maybe I''m just a B!. Seriously SG, I cannot believe a grown A$$ woman is behaving in this way!

 

[Ellen]

Date: 1/9/2009 1:45:13 PM
Author: TravelingGal

I agree the SG/PT issue is beating a dead horse at this point. And while I don''t negate how all the events mentioned and more have touched the lives of hearts who have never met, this forum and first and foremost a diamond education forum. Everything else is gravy and a lovely benefit that the moderators of this site have allowed us a place to come and share more personal aspects of our lives.

As another poster pointed out, we have newbies now coming forth and asking permission to take photos of rings on this site to vendors. It''s a valid question as to where the line should be drawn, if it can even be drawn at all.

Personally, I think it would be overkill to start having tons of posts titled, ''You there, poster, can I take photos of your ring for inspiration?''

ETA, DS, I just saw your post and I understood what you were trying to say, but thanks for clarifying!

Indeed.

 

[Linda W]

Date: 1/9/2009 1:40:06 PM
Author: strmrdr
boy what a mess...


First off SG hugs!! it has been a rough couple days.


The truth of the matter is that legally you couldn''t stop her from copying it.

Morally I don''t see much of a case either on this one.

The design is likely public domain and if it isn''t it is not you who has an infringement case.


I hope you will feel better about this soon and put it in the past.

What is done is done and cant be undone.

And just why should she legally stop her from copying it???? This is utterly INSANE!! Even though she couldn''t do it, it is still INSANE!!!

 

[LGK]

Date: 1/9/2009 11:21:44 AM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 1/9/2009 10:55:19 AM

Author: Kaleigh

Date: 1/9/2009 10:21:16 AM

Author: risingsun

Antique collectors run into this type of thing constantly I imagine ... finding a lovely object that is quite rare only to see it later knocked off by Pottery Barn or something. How much does the *perception* of rareness have to do with the emotions around an object. Its all very interesting & very personal I suppose.

Being an antique collector of many kinds, I can speak to this pretty well. The imitiation is never like the original. I collect, for example, Rene Lalique art glass from the 1920s. It''s reproduced quite a bit in the Czech Republic. The Lalique repros are quite different from the originals; mold seams are present in the repros, the details are not nearly as good in the molds, there''s no hand finishing work on the rims... and experienced collectors know this. Same with most areas of antiques; the repros are simply not the quality of the original. (There are some areas it''s tougher to tell the repros, usually when the original was not a quality product to begin with though, like Depression glass... no to knock Depression glass owners, but it was made for giveaway and the quality shows it.)

In context of this discussion, I think that''s rather relevant. PT''s ring, to my eye, looks something like Surfgirl''s, but 1. we don''t have enough pics, like of the side, to even know if it has all the same details and 2. looks pretty different due to the proportions and different stones. I think the originals always have a special place. Singlestone probably did a quality setting, but if Surfgirl''s is 1920s, hers is probably a bit better quality, like die struck instead of cast etc, and the millgrain, if there is any, is most likely finer on SGs ring.

 

[CrookedRock]

Date: 1/9/2009 1:45:13 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 1/9/2009 1:40:55 PM
Author: CrookedRock

Date: 1/9/2009 1:26:11 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

We have people on this forum right now facing brain surgery and possible heart surgery. We have people who are losing good jobs because of the economy. We''ve had a member lose precious twin boys. This makes me disgusted that we are here discussing someone being angry over a stupid inanimate object being reproduced!!!

Unreal.

That was my thought too! Seriously this has gotten lame.

I agree the SG/PT issue is beating a dead horse at this point. And while I don''t negate how all the events mentioned and more have touched the lives of hearts who have never met, this forum and first and foremost a diamond education forum. Everything else is gravy and a lovely benefit that the moderators of this site have allowed us a place to come and share more personal aspects of our lives.

As another poster pointed out, we have newbies now coming forth and asking permission to take photos of rings on this site to vendors. It''s a valid question as to where the line should be drawn, if it can even be drawn at all.

Believe me that I think the discussion in general about imitation is very valid and helpful for the PS community. It''s the unkind way that it has been handled that bothers me. I''m not going to say someone isn''t entitled to feel one way or another, bc they certainly are, but as storm said: what''s been done is done, there is no undoing it. So I feel that SG''s comments are uncalled for.

Vix, I unfortunately had some of the same thoughts as far as the reason behind her sentiment. I really hope that we all just have creative minds, and that SG''s world is a happy and healthy one.
Truth be told though... I wouldn''t be stopped from making the ring I loved and wanted no matter what. But I probably wouldn''t post it out of consideration if it were bc of one of the tragic reasons that have been mentioned.

 

[princesss]

Date: 1/9/2009 1:45:13 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 1/9/2009 1:40:55 PM
Author: CrookedRock

Date: 1/9/2009 1:26:11 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

We have people on this forum right now facing brain surgery and possible heart surgery. We have people who are losing good jobs because of the economy. We''ve had a member lose precious twin boys. This makes me disgusted that we are here discussing someone being angry over a stupid inanimate object being reproduced!!!

Unreal.

That was my thought too! Seriously this has gotten lame.

I agree the SG/PT issue is beating a dead horse at this point. And while I don''t negate how all the events mentioned and more have touched the lives of hearts who have never met, this forum and first and foremost a diamond education forum. Everything else is gravy and a lovely benefit that the moderators of this site have allowed us a place to come and share more personal aspects of our lives.

As another poster pointed out, we have newbies now coming forth and asking permission to take photos of rings on this site to vendors. It''s a valid question as to where the line should be drawn, if it can even be drawn at all.

Personally, I think it would be overkill to start having tons of posts titled, ''You there, poster, can I take photos of your ring for inspiration?''

ETA, DS, I just saw your post and I understood what you were trying to say, but thanks for clarifying!

And that, I think, is the interesting question.

In the case of ring designs in the public domain, I don''t think we have to ask. If we love it, we get it. It doesn''t matter (to me) whether another person has it, because that does not affect the sentiment for the original owner or for the person with a ring inspired by or copied from the original. For example, if I wanted say...Coati''s e-ring setting with Musey''s wedding band, I would go order them. The fact that two other PSers have the same pieces does not deminish how special they would be to any of us.

Or if I saw a setting I loved, but wanted to tweak a few details, I would take as many pictures as I could gather to a designer and have something made that suits my vision. Perhaps I would want to copyright it, perhaps I wouldn''t. Or maybe I saw a picture of a ring like nothing else I''d ever seen before, maybe an antique, maybe a re-pro, but something in the public domain that I had never seen, and was not easily available. Then I''d go to somebody that specialized in that kind of work and get one made for myself.

I do believe that puts more responsibility on us as posters, though, to only post that which we are comfortable knowing other people may copy, or expressly indicating that the ring is copyrighted (if that is the case).

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 1/9/2009 1:49:46 PM
Author: Linda W

And just why should she legally stop her from copying it???? This is utterly INSANE!! Even though she couldn't do it, it is still INSANE!!!

If <----(I said IF) she owned the copyright then for the same reason vatche doesn't let people copy his designs.
It isn't legal or moral.
Since she does not own the copyright there is nothing there in this case legally.

Anyway I'm out just wanted to send SG a hug and some support in light of the beating she is taking in this thread.

 

[forensics1]

LMFAO!

 

[coda72]

Well, to beat this dead horse further, I can really see both sides of this story. I understand someone''s dismay over a ring that''s extremely special being copied by someone else, but I cannot understand being this upset after the fact. Realistically speaking, the only way to protect something is legally, and since that was not done, SG''s or anyone else''s ring can be copied over and over if not copyright protected.

I did want to address the people who said that if you didn''t create something yourself, why you would want it copyrighted. Well, I am not an artist; I can barely draw a stick figure. When my husband and I started our own business, we had a graphic artist design our logo. That logo is pretty special to me especially after using it in my business for over a year. I would be pretty upset if someone else decided to use this logo for their own purposes. For that reason, I did start the trademark process a few months ago. There is a reason to have something copyrighted or trademarked if it is special and unique even if you didn''t create it.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Coda, as a graphic designer I think a business''s logo and a piece of jewelry that was found already made in a jewelry store are VERY different! Your identity is CRUCIAL to the success of your company!

What bothers me about this whole situation is I feel horrible for PT. She has EVERY right to be excited over her ring, proposal, engagement...Hopefully she will forget this whole ordeal. We should ALL move on!

TGal, I already talked to Coati and she gave me permission to "COPY" her amazing ring!

Of course I have to win the lottery so it won''t be happening ANY time soon.

 

[geckodani]

Date: 1/9/2009 2:24:39 PM
Author: Tacori E-ring
Coda, as a graphic designer I think a business''s logo and a piece of jewelry that was found already made in a jewelry store are VERY different! Your identity is CRUCIAL to the success of your company!

What bothers me about this whole situation is I feel horrible for PT. She has EVERY right to be excited over her ring, proposal, engagement...Hopefully she will forget this whole ordeal. We should ALL move on!

TGal, I already talked to Coati and she gave me permission to ''COPY'' her amazing ring!

Of course I have to win the lottery so it won''t be happening ANY time soon.

Can I have a copy of Tessa? Please?

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 1/9/2009 2:08:54 PM
Author: coda72
I did want to address the people who said that if you didn't create something yourself, why you would want it copyrighted. Well, I am not an artist; I can barely draw a stick figure. When my husband and I started our own business, we had a graphic artist design our logo. That logo is pretty special to me especially after using it in my business for over a year. I would be pretty upset if someone else decided to use this logo for their own purposes. For that reason, I did start the trademark process a few months ago. There is a reason to have something copyrighted or trademarked if it is special and unique even if you didn't create it.

Coda, I completely see why you would want that logo (potential trademark protected), and although the issue is also one of intellectual property, the elements are a bit different.

If someone else uses your logo, there is potential harm to you/your business. If your mark appears on competing product or service, it could usurp revenue from you. It could also harm your reputation if the competing product isn't up to snuff and is mistaken as being part of your offerings.

Even if a mark is used in a non-competing product or industry (i.e. the Apple Corporation logo appearing on a revolver), it may still cause harm to the owner of the mark. In the Apple example, consumers could mistakenly infer that the revolver manufacturer belongs to the Apple family of companies. If the non-related product isn't controversial, it could still appear as an endorsement of the product. If the non-related product is controversial, it could be construed as a political statement on behalf of Apple.

In this copyright instance, SG doesn't own the copyright. Yes, the piece is special to her, but it doesn't carry the same implications as the logo example. SG as an individual isn't a widely known celebrity. It's unlikely that people actually would travel in circles that would cause them to intersect with both SG and PT in real life (barring a PS GTG), so there is almost never likely to be an occasion where someone who knows SG sees PT's ring. Even if that 'strike of lightning' were to happen, I'd be truly surprised that anyone would realize that PT's ring imitates SG's. The only party that would likely pick up on that is Ari.

Even on the super-long shot that someone did see PT's ring and think "Oh, that looks like SGs ring", I don't think there would any assumption that PT is is any way affiliated with SG.

I just cannot envision a way that the existence of PT's ring diminishes the 'special' element of SGs other than the fact that SG now has factual knowledge that a replica has been made and that she doesn't like it.

 

[Lurchie]

I just reached the end of this thread after starting back up again from page 13. My brain and my eyes are fried. I''ve had like 100 different ideas of what I would post when I got to the end and they all escape me now. But one image sticks in my mind. It''s me, 10 years from now, with a copy of SG''s ring on one hand and Coati''s ring on the other, dancing in the streets like this:

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 1/9/2009 2:36:42 PM
Author: Lurchie
I just reached the end of this thread after starting back up again from page 13. My brain and my eyes are fried. I've had like 100 different ideas of what I would post when I got to the end and they all escape me now. But one image sticks in my mind. It's me, 10 years from now, with a copy of SG's ring on one hand and Coati's ring on the other, dancing in the streets like this:

HAHAHA YES! This sums it up for me also!

 

[princesss]

Date: 1/9/2009 2:36:42 PM
Author: Lurchie
I just reached the end of this thread after starting back up again from page 13. My brain and my eyes are fried. I''ve had like 100 different ideas of what I would post when I got to the end and they all escape me now. But one image sticks in my mind. It''s me, 10 years from now, with a copy of SG''s ring on one hand and Coati''s ring on the other, dancing in the streets like this:

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAA

*gasp*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

 

[Loves Vintage]

Date: 1/9/2009 1:59:50 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 1/9/2009 1:49:46 PM
Author: Linda W

And just why should she legally stop her from copying it???? This is utterly INSANE!! Even though she couldn''t do it, it is still INSANE!!!

If It isn''t legal or moral.
Since she does not own the copyright there is nothing there in this case legally.

Anyway I''m out just wanted to send SG a hug and some support in light of the beating she is taking in this thread.

Ditto.

SG feels the way she feels, as many have said, rather repeatedly, she is entitled to feel. Many people called for a personal response to be made by SG, which she did, even though she did not have to, and yet many are still dissatisfied with her response, and are now posting comments that seem rather geared toward getting another response from her.

SG has been a member of this forum for a long time. Even though I don''t know her at all, I have a lot of respect for her. If she is entitled to feel the way she feels, as has been stated repeatedly, why do you all keep questioning her and berating her for the way she feels?

I respect her decision not to post again on this topic, and I hope she really doesn''t, although I do hope she continues to be an active member of PS because I''ve always enjoyed her posts!

 

[icekid]

Date: 1/9/2009 2:36:42 PM
Author: Lurchie
I just reached the end of this thread after starting back up again from page 13. My brain and my eyes are fried. I''ve had like 100 different ideas of what I would post when I got to the end and they all escape me now. But one image sticks in my mind. It''s me, 10 years from now, with a copy of SG''s ring on one hand and Coati''s ring on the other, dancing in the streets like this:

I just might have to copy that idea! (I promise to ask first

)

On a serious note though, I don''t feel like I have anything to add truly that hasn''t been said rather eloquently already. But I do find it rather disappointing that SG wishes her anger and unhappiness over someone''s pending marriage. Spiteful.

 

[icekid]

Date: 1/9/2009 2:48:52 PM
Author: Loves Vintage

Date: 1/9/2009 1:59:50 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 1/9/2009 1:49:46 PM
Author: Linda W

And just why should she legally stop her from copying it???? This is utterly INSANE!! Even though she couldn''t do it, it is still INSANE!!!

If <----(I said IF) she owned the copyright then for the same reason vatche doesn''t let people copy his designs.
It isn''t legal or moral.
Since she does not own the copyright there is nothing there in this case legally.

Anyway I''m out just wanted to send SG a hug and some support in light of the beating she is taking in this thread.

Ditto.

SG feels the way she feels, as many have said, rather repeatedly, she is entitled to feel. Many people called for a personal response to be made by SG, which she did, even though she did not have to, and yet many are still dissatisfied with her response, and are now posting comments that seem rather geared toward getting another response from her.

SG has been a member of this forum for a long time. Even though I don''t know her at all, I have a lot of respect for her. If she is entitled to feel the way she feels, as has been stated repeatedly, why do you all keep questioning her and berating her for the way she feels?

I respect her decision not to post again on this topic, and I hope she really doesn''t, although I do hope she continues to be an active member of PS because I''ve always enjoyed her posts!

I think few people have a problem with the way she *feels* but rather the way the joyful engagement of someone else should be ruined by how she feels.

 

[Harriet]

May we move on to the larger issue(s)? Otherwise, I''ll start rambling in legalese. Even worse, my alter ego will appear and sing.

 

[Linda W]

Date: 1/9/2009 2:54:29 PM
Author: icekid

Date: 1/9/2009 2:48:52 PM

Author: Loves Vintage

Date: 1/9/2009 1:59:50 PM

Author: strmrdr

Date: 1/9/2009 1:49:46 PM

Author: Linda W

And just why should she legally stop her from copying it???? This is utterly INSANE!! Even though she couldn''t do it, it is still INSANE!!!

If <----(I said IF) she owned the copyright then for the same reason vatche doesn''t let people copy his designs.

It isn''t legal or moral.

Since she does not own the copyright there is nothing there in this case legally.


Anyway I''m out just wanted to send SG a hug and some support in light of the beating she is taking in this thread.

Ditto.


SG feels the way she feels, as many have said, rather repeatedly, she is entitled to feel. Many people called for a personal response to be made by SG, which she did, even though she did not have to, and yet many are still dissatisfied with her response, and are now posting comments that seem rather geared toward getting another response from her.


SG has been a member of this forum for a long time. Even though I don''t know her at all, I have a lot of respect for her. If she is entitled to feel the way she feels, as has been stated repeatedly, why do you all keep questioning her and berating her for the way she feels?



I respect her decision not to post again on this topic, and I hope she really doesn''t, although I do hope she continues to be an active member of PS because I''ve always enjoyed her posts!

I think few people have a problem with the way she *feels* but rather the way the joyful engagement of someone else should be ruined by how she feels.

DITTO Icekid!!! My heart broke for PT!!!!

 

[Linda W]

Date: 1/9/2009 2:55:27 PM
Author: Harriet
May we move on to the larger issue(s)? Otherwise, I''ll start rambling in legalese. Even worse, my alter ego will appear and sing.

OH Boy!!! I can''t wait to see another Harriet song!!!

 

[princesss]

Date: 1/9/2009 2:55:27 PM
Author: Harriet
May we move on to the larger issue(s)? Otherwise, I''ll start rambling in legalese. Even worse, my alter ego will appear and sing.

But will your alter ego appear and sing in legalese ???

 

[geckodani]

Date: 1/9/2009 2:55:27 PM
Author: Harriet
May we move on to the larger issue(s)? Otherwise, I''ll start rambling in legalese. Even worse, my alter ego will appear and sing.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 1/9/2009 2:55:27 PM
Author: Harriet

May we move on to the larger issue(s)? Otherwise, I''ll start rambling in legalese.

No. I think I want to see this. Do you make sense when you ramble or is the rambling delusional? I''m pulling up a lawn chair and settling down to watch the show.


Deb

 

[crown1]

i would like to offer this comment which is by no means original and i am sure all of you already know and someone has probably already said: we can not control our feelings but we can control our actions.

i have many times said or done things based on my feelings. if those feelings are loving and charitable or just fair the outcome is fine. when my feelings are selfish and uncaring i usually end up ashamed of myself. i am thankful that even when my feelings are not what they should be and even when i act on them inappropriately i get an attack of conscience and know i have overstepped my bounds.

sometimes you have to just walk away and say nothing no matter how much it hurts if you want to maintain your dignity and be able to live with yourself. we humans have a way of making mountains out of mole hills.

both parties are fortunate to have lovely rings and that is a fact. i feel at this point that should be enough. this, of course, is just my humble opinion.