Insights into Ruby prices

[Nick_G]

Most rubies I’ve seen for sale classed as being “pigeon blood red” however to my eye they all look to be different hues and tones.
If they are different, how can they be the same?

Obviously they are comparing with blood from different pigeons...

 

[Dreamer_D]

Regarding auction practices, my understanding has long been that most of the fine art field is dominated by money laundering and other forms of illicit money transfer among the uber wealthy and criminal syndicates. It doesn’t surprise me at all that similar practices exist in the high end gemstone industry, though I certainly appreciate the introduction of this topic @Dr_Diesel !

 

[Starstruck8]

#2 AUCTION HOUSES: Now this is both fascinating and a little creepy (IMO), but it makes a lot of sense. If I am selling paintings of an unknown artist at an auction house, and they are only fetching $200-$300/piece, I may begin buying back those paintings at the auction for $5000-$6000. As I do this, I accomplish 2 things: First, I show the world that my company is profitable and this can influence stock value. Second, I have created A PUBLISHED STANDARD that creates a tangible reference point for what this artist's paintings are "worth" - and thus what people expect to pay and are willing to pay.

This scenario is pulled from a real-life example. The effect of the tactic was that, 2-3 years after the seller started buying back his or her own paintings, that previously unknown artist's paintings were reliably selling at auction for $2000-$3000. After all, wouldn't it be great to pay only $3,000 for a painting that just sold at auction 2 years ago for $5,000?

My understanding is that buying back one's own goods at auctions is commonplace for many of the large "brands" in the high-end jewelry and gemstone world (as well as other secors).

On auction houses, 'twas ever thus. Aussies of a certain age will remember Alan Bond's record-breaking 'purchase' of Van Gogh's Irises.

Bond was a high-profile Australian 'entrepreneur' (= 'serial abuser of other people's money'). He was something of a folk hero for having financed the challenge that took the America's Cup away from America in 1983. In November 1987, a month after the 'black Friday' stock market crash, he 'purchased' Van Gogh's Irises at a Sotheby's auction for $53.9 million. This was a record at the time for any painting sold at auction. By 1989, Bond was having trouble paying his debts. It emerged that Sotheby's had agreed before the auction to lend Bond half the purchase price, whatever it turned out to be. Bond could not pay. In March 1990, in a deal brokered by Sotheby's, the painting was sold privately to the J Paul Getty Museum for an undisclosed sum, saving face for all concerned. The auction houses later tightened their lending rules.

It's not surprising at all that art dealers and gallerists purchase their own stock at auction, directly or indirectly, with or without the connivance of the auction houses. Promoting their artists is literally their job. It's interesting but no surprise that it happens also with high-end jewellery brands.

 

[Karl_K]

Regarding auction practices, my understanding has long been that most of the fine art field is dominated by money laundering and other forms of illicit money transfer among the uber wealthy and criminal syndicates. It doesn’t surprise me at all that similar practices exist in the high end gemstone industry, though I certainly appreciate the introduction of this topic @Dr_Diesel !

Graft for many years ruled the upper ruby auction market.
He would reset the auction prices on them every time.
He was quoted as saying, I just doubled the value of the other 8 I own.
There were other players doing the same thing along with him and in other categories.
Reset the prices at auction higher increased the asking price of what they had on hand.
Then their middle east customers started bidding against them to cut out the middle man and prices shot up even more.
The very high end market for gemstones and diamonds for that matter is very complicated.

 

[LC2016]

No, they have become absurdly expensive as well. They just had a show in Bangkok this past weekend and the prices were just stupid.

$3000-4000/ct for unheated blues in 2-3ct size and people were asking $12,000-$13,000 per carat in 8ct sizes.

4 carat Tsavorite are going for like $3000 per carat - and not even completely eye-clean

2-3ct Clean Jedi Spinels we’re $10,000-$15,000/ct.

It’s all so stupidly expensive that I can’t fathom buying anything these days.

The only thing I bought was a pair of lab grown diamond trapezoids for $90. At least those are cheap!

I also noticed that the section for lab grown gemstones of all kinds was definitely bigger this year than it’s ever been before.

Im just curious were there any dealer selling real jedi spinel? Would you mind share the vendor?

 

[LC2016]

Thank you , @Dr_Diesel and @Autumn in New England.
That sounds bleak. I suppose it will be similar story at the Hong Kong gem show which starts tomorrow. Two friends will be sending me updates from there!
One might have expected it to drop when China’s economy slowed. The reverse has happened because gems and gold are now seen as a good way to store wealth. With the stock and property markets not performing as well as before, people have turned to gems. The outlay is also less than for a house, so more people can take part.

Peridot has enjoyed a surge because the China company Fuli peridot has effectively marketed it as a “high class” stone. Turquoise has always been a favourite of Chinese. It is listed in the Jade Encyclopedia as a stone associated with Jade. Again. it was a marketing triumph for turquoise with a beguiling name, Sleeping Beauty . The China market has only in the last decade or so been introduced to stones other than the big four, so I expect this surge to continue for a while more.

Frankly speaking Im also surprised how China demand remain strong while the spend pattern of the entire economy has switched to the lower end market. I guess the wealthy bunch was not that hard hitted afterall by the economic downturn…..

 

[Dr_Diesel]

Im just curious were there any dealer selling real jedi spinel? Would you mind share the vendor?

HiGems is pretty well-known here on PS. Many people from PS have purchased from him, like him and trust him. He is honest, friendly and something of an expert when it comes to Jedi spinel.

At the show, there was a company called "Vibrant" who had a lot of very nice Mahenge and Burmese spinels (including some really top-tier Jedi material) but the asking prices were very high.

 

[E H]

One thing i can conclude from the last few gem show : the current theme for the market is unheated ruby n sapphire with pigeon blood or royal blue trade color given by GRS. So I can see a lot of garnet like "PB" ruby reach crazy price. I can see the gap of price betweem unheated to heat only widen significantly.

Personally, i prefer a H(a) monghsu ruby with great color and clarity or heat only mozambique ruby with strong fluo under SWUV. At least the price still reasonable for such beauty and rarity

 

[LC2016]

HiGems is pretty well-known here on PS. Many people from PS have purchased from him, like him and trust him. He is honest, friendly and something of an expert when it comes to Jedi spinel.

At the show, there was a company called "Vibrant" who had a lot of very nice Mahenge and Burmese spinels (including some really top-tier Jedi material) but the asking prices were very high.

Thanks let me check him out on the stock. And yes I have bought from HiGems before, he offer very good price and the stone color is superb. I was thinking to buy a slightly more expensive jedi stone from him but the fact that trading a considerably large amount of money via internet felt unsafe for me

 

[rattatooE]

Prices for gems like rubies can be so interesting to me since I know next to nothing about these kinds. Newbie question, but can someone help me understand why some rubies i see go for thousands and thousands while others not so much? Like I go to gemrockauctions.com and i see some for $1,000 and then on somewhere like thaigems.com i see them for around $100 both similar treatments etc. Like is one fake? and you can imagine the shock in my uneducated mind seeing pink rubies because, as a child, I always thought all rubies were red red haha

 

[Bron357]

Prices for gems like rubies can be so interesting to me since I know next to nothing about these kinds. Newbie question, but can someone help me understand why some rubies i see go for thousands and thousands while others not so much? Like I go to gemrockauctions.com and i see some for $1,000 and then on somewhere like thaigems.com i see them for around $100 both similar treatments etc. Like is one fake? and you can imagine the shock in my uneducated mind seeing pink rubies because, as a child, I always thought all rubies were red red haha

Lots of factors affect ruby prices. The big one is treatment. There is a world of difference between heated with minor residues H (a) and heated with moderate residues. Some labs don’t quantify the level aka effect of the “heat treatment”.
Minor residues can be interpreted as a consequence of heat treatment to improve clarity, moderate residues can mean high heat to alter crystal structure ie melt the ruby with the addition of flux or glass to fill in any fissures. Such intense treatments can turn an ugly fissures filled lump of corundum into a saleable ruby.
To the eye they will look the same.
Which is why unheated is so sought after, no fiddling whatsoever to improve the gem.
Another point to remember is that vendors use photos that may or may not equate to what you will see with your own eyes in normal lighting. Studio lighting, chosen angles and specific background colour can create an image not really a true representation of the gem. Go into any higher end jewellery shop and look at your jewellery, it will look more spectacular than normal, thanks to carefully curated lighting.
As for when a pink sapphire or purple sapphire becomes a ruby is subjective. All things being equal a gem designated as “ruby” will fetch more $$$ than “sapphire”. Ditto the colour label of “Pigeon blood red”, this is deemed the best colour that attracts the highest price so it is very frequently used.
So tone and hue affect price. You can have pink, orange, purple and brown undertones. Fluorescence matters along with origin.
A 1 carat unheated Burmese ruby of top colour will likely be $10,000 plus.
A 1 carat heated ruby with moderate residues (coloured flux to improve colour) should be less than $50.
To the unaided eye it will be difficult for most to pick the difference!
Accordingly it is recommended that any ruby one buys comes with a reputable lab certificate. Unfortunately there are hundreds of suspect lab certificates from fake at worse, dubious at best labs out there.
Also buying with a return option. Where you live, the time of year, the lighting conditions you’ll mostly see the ruby in may make it disappointing in “real life”.