Is there anyone here that doesn't like H&A diamonds?

[Circe]

For years and years, I was convinced I didn't: I adore my well-cut but non-H&A ring, and most of the images I saw online were a turn-off to me; a cross between a visual preference for the kaleidoscopic chaos of the non-H&As coupled with my usual contrary nature. Tell me I HAVE to like something, and odds are good I won't - see also Uggs, Starbucks, and Dan Brown.

But I just bought a pair of H&As for earrings, and I think I may be a convert. I think MissGotRocks pegs it when she talks about, a) how different they look in person, and, b) the appeal of the symmetry. In person, I don't see 8 pokey arrows: I see an almost flowerlike pattern of movement, and a lot of sparkle.

Does that mean that I suddenly dislike non-H&As? Nope: some (cough: mine!) might still be more appealing. But it's on a case-by-case basis, as opposed to the general reliability of the H&A "brand," whichever specific brand we might be discussing ....

 

[yssie]

Interesting to note - the people replying in this thread are those who have either A) seen both types, and made up their own minds, or B) considered their purchases from financial and practical points of view and decided on branded vs. unbranded based on those analyses.

As in - none of these posters are blindly choosing sides. And a well-thought-out choice can't truly be wrong

 

[decodelighted]

For me, though, H&As and also the colored gem concave cut - for whatever reason these two cuts in particular do nothing for me.

WORD! I think those two are an apt comparison also ... its that headlight, starburst, in your face explosion. I nearly find it offensive! (creeping back into the closet)

 

[MarkBroumand]

Interesting to note - the people replying in this thread are those who have either A) seen both types, and made up their own minds, or B) considered their purchases from financial and practical points of view and decided on branded vs. unbranded based on those analyses.

As in - none of these posters are blindly choosing sides. And a well-thought-out choice can't truly be wrong

Yes!

This is great testimony displaying there are no right or wrong choices when it comes to diamonds once an educated decision is made set to one's own priorities.

 

[SB621]

For years and years, I was convinced I didn't: I adore my well-cut but non-H&A ring, and most of the images I saw online were a turn-off to me; a cross between a visual preference for the kaleidoscopic chaos of the non-H&As coupled with my usual contrary nature. Tell me I HAVE to like something, and odds are good I won't - see also Uggs, Starbucks, and Dan Brown.

But I just bought a pair of H&As for earrings, and I think I may be a convert. I think MissGotRocks pegs it when she talks about, a) how different they look in person, and, b) the appeal of the symmetry. In person, I don't see 8 pokey arrows: I see an almost flowerlike pattern of movement, and a lot of sparkle.

Does that mean that I suddenly dislike non-H&As? Nope: some (cough: mine!) might still be more appealing. But it's on a case-by-case basis, as opposed to the general reliability of the H&A "brand," whichever specific brand we might be discussing ....

Sorry but no this would not change my opinion of it. I would still pay more for an OMC or an OEC then H& A anyday.

 

[Circe]

For years and years, I was convinced I didn't: I adore my well-cut but non-H&A ring, and most of the images I saw online were a turn-off to me; a cross between a visual preference for the kaleidoscopic chaos of the non-H&As coupled with my usual contrary nature. Tell me I HAVE to like something, and odds are good I won't - see also Uggs, Starbucks, and Dan Brown.

But I just bought a pair of H&As for earrings, and I think I may be a convert. I think MissGotRocks pegs it when she talks about, a) how different they look in person, and, b) the appeal of the symmetry. In person, I don't see 8 pokey arrows: I see an almost flowerlike pattern of movement, and a lot of sparkle.

Does that mean that I suddenly dislike non-H&As? Nope: some (cough: mine!) might still be more appealing. But it's on a case-by-case basis, as opposed to the general reliability of the H&A "brand," whichever specific brand we might be discussing ....

Sorry but no this would not change my opinion of it. I would still pay more for an OMC or an OEC then H& A anyday.

Well, you won't catch me arguing - I think it's important to get exactly the thing that suits your personal tastes.

On this go-round, I wanted to get something upgradable ... and while I was considering AVRs from GOG, they didn't have anything that matched what I was looking for exactly, and I got the advice that the faceting might not show up in the size I could afford, especially with the premium. So, H&A's - they're sparkly as the dickens, and I'm quite pleased. But I certainly wouldn't say no to a pair of nice OECs someday ....

 

[iluvdiamonds2]

WOW I thought it was just me! I had a jeweler the other day in NYC show me Solasfera diamonds and I hated them! They were sharp lines in it - not nice sparkly, more like sharp sparkly. I like regular stones, nothing fancy!

Can't believe I'm not the only one. The jeweler thought I was crazy for not being impressed by them.

 

[Imdanny]

No, I don't dislike them. They're not my favorite. I'd rather have an emerald cut, or a cushion cut with a large culet, or an emerald cut with a large culet, or a marquise with a large culet (you can see where this is going...) but compared to the diamonds my grandmother and mother had to choose from in the '60's and '70's they're light years better IMHO.

 

[risingsun]

From reading the tutorials on H&A diamonds, it appears that the more precisely a RB diamond is cut, the more likely it is to have an H&A "type" pattern. Unless it is cut with extreme precision, it won't qualify as a true H&A, but the pattern will exist in some form. I am speaking only of modern cut 57/58 facet RB diamonds. Having owned both types of RB diamonds, I much prefer a H&A stone. It's just "perfect" enough and is never boring or predictable. I have spent a good amount of time looking at diamonds and this is my opinion. Comparing OEC and OMC to modern RB seems like an apples and oranges kind of thing, to me. Evidently, YMMV

 

[Karl_K]

Comparing OEC and OMC to modern RB seems like an apples and oranges kind of thing, to me. Evidently, YMMV

I agree OECs should be considered a different cut just like the extra facet rounds.

The biggest thing I like about precision cut diamonds of any shape is the craftsmanship that goes into them.
That something cut by hand on comparatively rudimentary machines can be that precise is a wonder to me.
Someone by hand cut that diamond to a degree of precision that is higher than the machines used to measure it can measure.
Not only that they optically aligned every facet.
To me that is just way kewl! :}

The second thing I like is the play of light, in the right lighting you can walk the light across the virtual facets from one to another and it is hours of fun, finding the right lighting and playing with the diamond.

The third thing is kewl patterns :} this is even more evident and moves up to the number one position in asschers and emerald cuts as the patterns are more visible across more lighting than h&a rounds.

Way back when I was starting to get into learning about diamonds heavily I was passionate enough about it to write the first PS article every submitted by someone not in the diamond trade(at that time).
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/hearts_arrows_diamonds_its_not_all_about_light_return

 

[risingsun]

Thank you for your post, Karl. You described what I see in my own H&A diamond. I have had three H&A stones. They have all been beautiful and all have had their own personalities. In addition, these diamonds have demonstrated top notch performance. I appreciate that we all have our preferences, but these stones are something very special.

 

[coati]

My new er diamond (alt because I need a smaller ring for everyday) is 65% depth, and 65% table. No fish eye ( don't know HOW when it's so shallow, but no complaints) and is extremely brilliant.

Shallow crown/deep pavilion. 65% depth makes that stone very deep, but it sounds like the shallow crown must compensate somewhat. Shallow pavilion creates fish eye (girdle reflection inside the table), and your stone's pavilion is deep-that's why you don't see it.

Answering the op: I like old cut diamonds. I like a different type of pattern. The stone in my avatar is perfection to me. I also have a non H&A round brilliant with great angles and light return-I enjoy it.

 

[oldminer]

If you buy into the concept that the "best" cut is H&A or 000 or EX,EX EX then you are committed to prefering such diamonds. If you have a totally open mind you may well find that your personal preference may be for a round diamond which does not have such a grade for cut. You might be in the minority, but it is your right to choose what you like. After all, it is your money that is being spent. My belief is that for the majority of people who don't intend to make diamonds into a mini-career, that they want guidance on how to choose something very safe and very likely to be appreciated by the person who is on the receiving end. Few people buck fashion in costly clothing and few would do any different in the purchase of a costly diamond. Most people do tend to follow the herd and to march in lock step with how to choose important consumer purchases. There is a lot to be said in favor of old cuts, fancy shapes and somewhat unusual parameters in diamond cut, but there is a lot more to learn and understand to buy one of the odd stones versus the rather easy steps in buying some sort of top cut stone that has a recognized cut grade that we all basically agree meets a high standard.

It is not important to purchase only a recognized fine cut diamond, but it is important to understand what a fine cut grade may mean and what a different set of proportions may mean. This takes some investigation and extra time. A seller who does not have your best interests at heart may be tempted to mislead a consumer about cut quality, so you must learn for yourself what all this is about for your own peace of mind. You always have the freedom to select what you prefer. People buy other than ideally cut diamonds all the time and are very happy with them for years. Many would have opted for a higher cut grade diamond and many could care less. Those on Pricescope represent a small number of the overall members of the public, but once you know the facts, then the way you decide to buy changes.

 

[Stephan]

Talking about round diamonds, this happens sometimes:
'Oh! Look under this lighting how the non H&A looks more interesting than the H&A!'
But in most lighting conditions, a true H&A will outshine most of the other round diamonds.
H&A is my best advice.

 

[bright&shiny]

Nope. I love almost every cut, except the crushed ice look, so I can't say that H&A's bother me at all. Sparkle, fire, ahhhhh

 

[vintagelover229]

I've owned a chushtte (a cushion cut for light return) an AVC and now a H&R RB. I also own 1ctw OEC earrings and an OMC/OEC snowflake pendant so I've seen quite a few different cuts/styles with my own eyes.

For myself, I prefer older stones like OEC/OMC's and chunky cushions. I no longer own the cushette or the AVC but I LOVED my AVC. I'd never seen anything like it before...however that being said, I love my H&A round too. Had the ring that we bought (we bought an estate ring with the RB that is ideal cut) not been a steal of a deal, I would have wound up with a cushion or an OEC of some sort. However, I do love my RB and used to "dislike" H&A diamonds because I could see the arrows (in pics on here) and I just didn't find that appealing. However in person, it is really beautiful and sparkles like mad! It's a different type of light return than my AVC, but not any less beautiful. I won't be changing/upgrading my ring from the RB it is and am actually happy that I have a "classic" round for my ring.

That being said, all the future stones I plan on buying will most likely be antique stones. There are many reasons for this. 1) I LOVE vintage stones. 2) I like warmer stones (which my RB is an H...I love it too) 3) I can get more bang for my buck with vintage stones
4) I prefer the chunky look of vintage stones (including rounds) and I love the history behind them.

If you had asked me this question a year ago, I would have said I don't care much for H&A RB diamonds, however after owning one (which I have to be honest, it's supposed to be a transitional diamond, but when I took it to the appraiser he took measurements and it's an ideal cut diamond, not sure how that happened, my guess is that its a late transitional that just happen to be cut ideally and we can clearly see arrows in it) I find that I love it and its beautiful.

So, I guess I'm just a diamond whore and love all things that sparkle! But my heart will always be with vintage stones but I do love H&A too! Wow, that was a long answer for a simple question, lol.

 

[risingsun]

When you speak with the vendors who carry top tier H&A diamonds, their cutters produce less than 2000 stones per year. This is not a lot of stones. Top tier H&A diamonds are rare. We are used to them on PS because we have had the opportunity to learn about them and have access to vendors who sell the top of the line H&A diamonds. I believe, sometimes, that people think that they will see a pattern of black arrows in a H&A diamond. This is not true. You can catch a glimpse of a "diamond colored" arrow as it throws off brilliance or fire. I have never seen more than three arrows at a time and when I have seen them, they are dynamic. It's nice that we all have a choice when we pick a diamond. I am grateful I found PS and learned about H&A with superior light performance.

 

[Envyme]

I had to come back and re-think my thoughts on H&A now that I have seen one first hand. Boy was I wrong- I love them! I love the OMG too but I agree the sparkle you get it beyond WOW! I didn't even know I was looking at a H&A I just knew it was a brilliant stone that sparkled the way I imagine a perfect stone to shine....didn't know at this point it was H&A. The person I was working with started reading of the specs - EGL USA H&A - I said "What, this is a H&A?!" I had no idea. It doesn't have that funky stark arrow look in the middle but when the light hits it you can see the arrows which is a really cool effect! Love it!! I highly rec seeing one first hand.

 

[risingsun]

I had to come back and re-think my thoughts on H&A now that I have seen one first hand. Boy was I wrong- I love them! I love the OMG too but I agree the sparkle you get it beyond WOW! I didn't even know I was looking at a H&A I just knew it was a brilliant stone that sparkled the way I imagine a perfect stone to shine....didn't know at this point it was H&A. The person I was working with started reading of the specs - EGL USA H&A - I said "What, this is a H&A?!" I had no idea. It doesn't have that funky stark arrow look in the middle but when the light hits it you can see the arrows which is a really cool effect! Love it!! I highly rec seeing one first hand.

Thanks for coming back with this response, Envyme They are gorgeous stones and I'm glad you had the opportunity to see one!

 

[yssie]

I had to come back and re-think my thoughts on H&A now that I have seen one first hand. Boy was I wrong- I love them! I love the OMG too but I agree the sparkle you get it beyond WOW! I didn't even know I was looking at a H&A I just knew it was a brilliant stone that sparkled the way I imagine a perfect stone to shine....didn't know at this point it was H&A. The person I was working with started reading of the specs - EGL USA H&A - I said "What, this is a H&A?!" I had no idea. It doesn't have that funky stark arrow look in the middle but when the light hits it you can see the arrows which is a really cool effect! Love it!! I highly rec seeing one first hand.

Actually Envy, you prove an even more pertinent point: EGL's say-so is not confirmation of H&A at all. However, the stone is probably near-H&A. Most RBs with moderately good optical symmetry will show decent arrows.

Meaning, to get fantastic sparkle in a modern round brilliant, you don't need to buy a branded Hearts & Arrows stone.

 

[Envyme]

I had to come back and re-think my thoughts on H&A now that I have seen one first hand. Boy was I wrong- I love them! I love the OMG too but I agree the sparkle you get it beyond WOW! I didn't even know I was looking at a H&A I just knew it was a brilliant stone that sparkled the way I imagine a perfect stone to shine....didn't know at this point it was H&A. The person I was working with started reading of the specs - EGL USA H&A - I said "What, this is a H&A?!" I had no idea. It doesn't have that funky stark arrow look in the middle but when the light hits it you can see the arrows which is a really cool effect! Love it!! I highly rec seeing one first hand.

Actually Envy, you prove an even more pertinent point: EGL's say-so is not confirmation of H&A at all. However, the stone is probably near-H&A. Most RBs with moderately good optical symmetry will show decent arrows.

Meaning, to get fantastic sparkle in a modern round brilliant, you don't need to buy a branded Hearts & Arrows stone.

Is it possible for a stone graded by EGL be a H&A or is that impossible? I didn't realize that could be a possibility... They guy told me I can go buy the tool to see the hearts with it LOL * if I zoom in on one of my pics I took of the ring I can actually see a reflection of a heart but that could be coincidence.

 

[Envyme]

Not sure if you see it in this pic or not...but to me it looks like hearts.

 

[yssie]

I had to come back and re-think my thoughts on H&A now that I have seen one first hand. Boy was I wrong- I love them! I love the OMG too but I agree the sparkle you get it beyond WOW! I didn't even know I was looking at a H&A I just knew it was a brilliant stone that sparkled the way I imagine a perfect stone to shine....didn't know at this point it was H&A. The person I was working with started reading of the specs - EGL USA H&A - I said "What, this is a H&A?!" I had no idea. It doesn't have that funky stark arrow look in the middle but when the light hits it you can see the arrows which is a really cool effect! Love it!! I highly rec seeing one first hand.

Actually Envy, you prove an even more pertinent point: EGL's say-so is not confirmation of H&A at all. However, the stone is probably near-H&A. Most RBs with moderately good optical symmetry will show decent arrows.

Meaning, to get fantastic sparkle in a modern round brilliant, you don't need to buy a branded Hearts & Arrows stone.

Is it possible for a stone graded by EGL be a H&A or is that impossible? I didn't realize that could be a possibility... They guy told me I can go buy the tool to see the hearts with it LOL * if I zoom in on one of my pics I took of the ring I can actually see a reflection of a heart but that could be coincidence.

H&A RBs are precision-cut stones, you're not going to find them randomly in a mass-manufactured pile of RBs. To cut those precise, symmetric hearts requires more time, energy, and expense, creates more wasted rough, and isn't worth it unless the vendor/manufacturer is going to capitalise on the presence of the pleasing hearts pattern by branding the stone and selling it as a H&A. GIA is the king of the jungle, AGS appeals to the cut-nut niche market that appreciates the effort that goes into manufacturing a precision-cut stone, the trade does not take EGL as seriously so why send to a second-tier lab, when a GIA EX or AGSO cut grade will command a premium?

ETA: You can't see the hearts pattern on the pavilion face-up, but if you ever reset your stone grab a hearts viewer and take a look, could be fun

 

[Envyme]

Thanks for clarifying. When I go back to look at the stone again I will buy the tool viewer needed to see the H&A they wanted $35 to buy it so I held off. I am now realllyy interested if I can see the H&A looking through the tool. I do understand your H&A won't be common and won't be amongst a pile of random RB stones. I hope you didn't think I was coming across rude- I am more curious now if it is a H&A or not. I will report back Monday evening. Also, I did read you can't see the hearts face up just looking at it but a person at WF did say if the light hits the stone just right sometimes you may get the heart showing in the reflection of the stone (or something to the effect).

My guess would be it was orig a AIG or GIA graded H&A (if I see the hearts in it on Monday with the tool) if EGL USA doesn't grade H&A stones...it probably came back a VS2 not VS1 or maybe a "K" not a "J" and that is why it is sold that way...I dunno, this is all speculation though.

 

[slg47]

Thanks for clarifying. When I go back to look at the stone again I will buy the tool viewer needed to see the H&A they wanted $35 to buy it so I held off. I am now realllyy interested if I can see the H&A looking through the tool. I do understand your H&A won't be common and won't be amongst a pile of random RB stones. I hope you didn't think I was coming across rude- I am more curious now if it is a H&A or not. I will report back Monday evening. Also, I did read you can't see the hearts face up just looking at it but a person at WF did say if the light hits the stone just right sometimes you may get the heart showing in the reflection of the stone (or something to the effect).

My guess would be it was orig a AIG or GIA graded H&A (if I see the hearts in it on Monday with the tool) if EGL USA doesn't grade H&A stones...it probably came back a VS2 not VS1 or maybe a "K" not a "J" and that is why it is sold that way...I dunno, this is all speculation though.

I don't think AGS or GIA grades stones as H&A diamonds. Also I don't think you can see the hearts through the top-down view, you can probably see some arrows though if you lean in close. Is the stone being sold as mounted?

 

[Envyme]

Hi, nope it's not being sold mounted. Also, no where does it say on the EGL USA cert that it is H&A the guy told me it was a H&A and then he said if I want to see the hearts I can walk down the street and buy the viewer. I went to price it out but it was expensive IMO. It did show on the folder you get with the diamond the red images that show the cut outs of the hearts and arrows. Do know know the images I am referring too? The ones you see that are on WF.

ETA: I googles EGL H&A spelled out and it did show me an example of what I saw from the paperwork that comes with the diamond. I am not sure I can post a link to an outside site though that is selling the stone...

 

[slg47]

Hi, nope it's not being sold mounted. Also, no where does it say on the EGL USA cert that it is H&A the guy told me it was a H&A and then he said if I want to see the hearts I can walk down the street and buy the viewer. I went to price it out but it was expensive IMO. It did show on the folder you get with the diamond the red images that show the cut outs of the hearts and arrows. Do know know the images I am referring too? The ones you see that are on WF.

ETA: I googles EGL H&A spelled out and it did show me an example of what I saw from the paperwork that comes with the diamond. I am not sure I can post a link to an outside site though that is selling the stone...

you can post links. jeweler does not have H&A viewer?

 

[Envyme]

Now, keep in mind though he is a wholesaler in the LA jewelry mart. He doesn't have one but I am sure if I told him to get one he would. He doesn't sell them to people with the viewer (I guess)...

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-02CT-H-SI2-EGL-CERT-IDEAL-HEARTS-ARROWS-DIAMOND-/250743468228?pt=Loose_Diamonds&hash=item3a6179b0c4

ETA: This is not the exact stone I was looking at to buy though. It was larger...

 

[february2003bride]

Thanks for clarifying. When I go back to look at the stone again I will buy the tool viewer needed to see the H&A they wanted $35 to buy it so I held off. I am now realllyy interested if I can see the H&A looking through the tool. I do understand your H&A won't be common and won't be amongst a pile of random RB stones. I hope you didn't think I was coming across rude- I am more curious now if it is a H&A or not. I will report back Monday evening. Also, I did read you can't see the hearts face up just looking at it but a person at WF did say if the light hits the stone just right sometimes you may get the heart showing in the reflection of the stone (or something to the effect).

My guess would be it was orig a AIG or GIA graded H&A (if I see the hearts in it on Monday with the tool) if EGL USA doesn't grade H&A stones...it probably came back a VS2 not VS1 or maybe a "K" not a "J" and that is why it is sold that way...I dunno, this is all speculation though.

I don't think AGS or GIA grades stones as H&A diamonds. Also I don't think you can see the hearts through the top-down view, you can probably see some arrows though if you lean in close. Is the stone being sold as mounted?

I had 1.33 AGS000 and in the notes, H&A was added. Also, I believe VesperGirl has an EGL graded diamond that is H&A.

 

[yssie]

GIA and AGS will notate in the comments if an inscription of H&A is present on the stone, they are not endorsing the description.

HRD has (or had last year, unless that has changed) a H&A grading report, and has published specifications for the evaluation of hearts.

EGL USA - I can find no information on specifications beyond the proportions parametres required for the "ideal plus" grade (and then, not on the official website). In the list of tools on that report you linked Envy I see nothing to indicate how those hearts and arrows images were taken (unless it is under "other instruments, as a sidenote the proportionscope is no longer in use)... are those images representative of this particular stone?