Is this a True TOLKOWSKY IDEAL CUT??!

[saza]

Hi, I am new here and I am helping my soon to be brother in law pick out a diamond for my sister. We are diamond "illiterate" I was reading about the tolkowsky ideal cut; and have heard that sometimes EGL's diamonds state they fall with in these standards and they really don't. I believe this EGL is from Isreal which I have also heard bad things about here is the diamond specifications

Carat weight: 1.23ct
Shape: Round
Color: F
Clarity: SI2
Cut grade: Excellent
Depth: 59.5%
Table: 56%
Girdle thickness: Medium
Culet: None
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 6.95-7.04x4.16mm
Comment: TOLKOWSKY IDEAL CUT+ H&A


PLEASE HELP!

 

[greta2603]

I don't know much about the Tolkowsky cut, but I have learned that you can't rely on the EGL colour and clarity grades. It's likely the EGL F SI2 ratings equate to a GIA H I1/I2. The H isn't much of a problem (for me), but that clarity rating is too much of a risk.

There's a helpful comparison chart for the lab ratings here:

http://www.77diamonds.com/compare-diamond-certificates.html

 

[denverappraiser]

I don't know much about the Tolkowsky cut, but I have learned that you can't rely on the EGL colour and clarity grades. It's likely the EGL F SI2 ratings equate to a GIA H I1/I2. The H isn't much of a problem (for me), but that clarity rating is too much of a risk.

There's a helpful comparison chart for the lab ratings here:

http://www.77diamonds.com/compare-diamond-certificates.html

I absolutely disagree with that chart. The problem with the unpopular labs, such as EGL-Israel, is not that they use a different grading scale. That would be easy. The problem is that they aren’t always consistent in the application of the scales. Sometimes GIA-F = EGLI-G as the chart suggests, but sometimes it’s an H, I or even J. Sometimes it’s even an F. The same thing happens with clarity. The way to tell the difference is to look at the stone and grade it yourself or hire someone else to do the same. If you’re going to do this, there’s nothing gained by the report in the first place. You’re no longer relying on EGLI’s grading, you’re relying on your own, your dealer and/or your appraiser. If the jeweler is pointing at the report as answering the grading question, they’ve just ruled themselves out as well. If you rely on an ‘appraisal’ written by that jeweler then they are no protection either. That leaves YOU, and you haven’t even seen the stone!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

If he liked that stone, tell him to look at H-I-J color, SI1-Si2, excellent cut GIA graded stones instead. Seriously, you have no idea what you're getting, as Neil said, so you are more at risk of overpaying. At least with reliably graded stones, you know what you're getting and can come here and compare prices.

 

[Regular Guy]

Saza, various places on here will review the Tolkowski proportions; I'm not exactly sure where...

But, a) your diamond doesn't even post crown & pavilion angles to try to compare them up. Also, the experience of many of us is that EGL uses that language way over liberally.

And, Greta, re-read your own post. Though you're critical of EGL:

but I have learned that you can't rely on the EGL colour and clarity grades. It's likely the EGL F SI2 ratings equate to a GIA H I1/I2. The H isn't much of a problem (for me), but that clarity rating is too much of a risk.

The chart you shared about...

There's a helpful comparison chart for the lab ratings here:

http://www.77diamonds.com/compare-diamond-certificates.html

THAT chart, as I read it, goes in 100 degree OPPOSITE direction of your own suspicions. It suggests EGL is significantly more stringent than GIA and GIA.

Whoever 77 diamonds is, does a real dis-service. And Greta...bad girl(!).


Ira Z.

 

[greta2603]

Saza, various places on here will review the Tolkowski proportions; I'm not exactly sure where...

But, a) your diamond doesn't even post crown & pavilion angles to try to compare them up. Also, the experience of many of us is that EGL uses that language way over liberally.

And, Greta, re-read your own post. Though you're critical of EGL:

but I have learned that you can't rely on the EGL colour and clarity grades. It's likely the EGL F SI2 ratings equate to a GIA H I1/I2. The H isn't much of a problem (for me), but that clarity rating is too much of a risk.

The chart you shared about...

There's a helpful comparison chart for the lab ratings here:

http://www.77diamonds.com/compare-diamond-certificates.html

THAT chart, as I read it, goes in 100 degree OPPOSITE direction of your own suspicions. It suggests EGL is significantly more stringent than GIA and GIA.

Whoever 77 diamonds is, does a real dis-service. And Greta...bad girl(!).


Ira Z.

What on earth am I missing here?!

The way I read that chart, it says that an EGL Int. F = GIA H in colour and EGL Int. VS1/VS2 = GIA SI2. So, if I took an EGL Int. F/VS1 in to be appraised, I would be disappointed by both the colour and the clarity, as in reality it would be closer to an GIA H/SI2 stone, if not lower.

This is from the 77Diamonds website, and it seems to interpret the chart the same way I do:

Overall, the GIA tends to be the strictest on colour grades, and out of the other laboratories, HRD and AGS are the two that most closely adhere to the standards set out by the GIA. IGI and EGL USA tend to give one colour grade higher than GIA, and EGL up to 2 colour grades higher. So an F colour stone on a GIA certificate would most likely be the same on HRD and AGS, an E on IGI or EGL USA, and a D on EGL.

Again, with clarity the GIA is said to be the strictest, giving at least one grade lower than all other laboratories. The HRD adds its own clarity grade to the traditional scale, terming all stones with impurities invisible with a 10x loupe as “Loupe Clean.” Because of this extra category, stones grades as IF or FL by the HRD would only receive a VVS1 from the GIA. The same applies for IGI, EGL and EGL USA, which would all grade between one and two clarity grades higher than the GIA, meaning that a VVS2 on a GIA certificate while the majority of AGS colour grades are equal to the GIA.

 

[Regular Guy]

Greta, sorry, my fault; not sure why I read it the way I did; you're right...the "flow" I guess is right after all. But, do take Denver's caution to heart.

Ira Z.

 

[denverappraiser]

Greta,

'Strict grading' is not the heart of the problem, but it has become the heart of the defense. These sorts of conversion charts have become common and I’m a bit sensitive to it. The logic goes that if you appropriately ‘discount’ a particular lab grade you can reasonably shop it against stones from other labs and identify a bargain. The trick is to use the appropriate formula. I’m flatly disagreeing with this premise. It’s not the strictness, looseness, or even the grading scale being used that’s the problem. It’s inconsistency. The stone is whatever it is no matter who graded it but shoppers aren't comparing stones, they’re comparing reports. Without a consistent and repeatable grading standard the report means nothing and discounting it with ANY formula still leaves nothing. Garbage in – garbage out.