Is this normal?

[aljdewey]

Date: 9/7/2005 6:41:38 PM
Author: Rhino

YES ... the wait is frustrating. It is for me as well. If you were a vendor and I were buying from you and you had trouble locating what it is I wanted I would not leave you Mara because you''re having trouble finding it. Especially since I like you. Sure I may shop around to see if I could find it but when I know you''re working for me to find it, TO ME, that would not be a reason for complaint. I would appreciate the work you put into it and I''d also ask to reimburse you for any funds you spent trying to locate it if I wound up getting it elsewhere but I would not put your back against the wall if you failed to let me know every single move you made to try and get it.

I can appreciate that - absolutely. If I were the customer, I wouldn''t need you to phone me every three days to say "Well, I called the supplier AGAIN today, but no dice."

On the other hand, there is a VAST extreme between communicating every single move make and not communicating at all for months. I have to believe that somewhere in between those two extremes, there is a happy medium that both a reasonable consumer and a reasonable vendor can live with, and that happy medium will vary from customer to customer.

Clear and detailed communication--about expectations and appropriate follow-up intervals--could avoid all that.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 9/7/2005 6:41:38 PM
Author: Rhino

I know it sounds impossible but Mara, believe me when I tell you, some stones just take longer to get and the shortage of rough does not help the situation. More frequent communication, while nice does not answer the problem either. I know if I were the client waiting, getting an email or phone call each day saying ... NOT YET ... might aggravate me more. I'd eventually get sick of hearing that and probably move onto a different shaped stone more quickly.

Yanno, I should have read your entire post before repllying.....I could have answered them all together.

The bold above really highlights the problem perfectly. You are telling people what you'd want if you were the customer....instead of hearing/listening to what they want as customers. And, you're assuming that they would want what you want, instead of asking what they'd want. That's when it does become a problem.

The problem isn't that you can't locate a stone. And honestly......a customer's decision not to wait any longer for a given shape will happen regardless if they want a stone more quickly than it can become available. That just means they are going to look for a different shape.

I'd rather see them look for a different shape than a different vendor, though, wouldn't you?

 

[Rhino]

Date: 9/7/2005 7:29:52 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 9/7/2005 6:41:38 PM
Author: Rhino
Also, I know, as I have stated, that you would never intentionally try to make an issue out of something the original poster did not intend to become an issue. Peeps here were responding but I was seeing MAJOR issues being made out of non-issues and this is why I was seeking clarification.

OK, I''m confused by the above. Maybe you can help me to understand a bit better.

You say ''I know you wouldn''t intentionally try to make an issue out of something.....'', but then in the next breath saying ''I was seeing MAJOR issues being made out of non-issues''. I don''t see that. Can you show me specifically what comments served to make MAJOR issues of non-issues?

Yes. The fact that we were holding onto the 7k was brought up no less than 3 or 4 times ...
Someone said "You mean they kept your 7k without producing product ... etc. then this kept coming up again and again. It became a magnified issue when in fact it wasn''t an issue at all. I do not like it when people mess with my money and I''m sure nobody else does too. This kept getting repeated and repeated over and over and perhaps to me was magnified even more because we were the ones holding the money. This is a non issue yet it kept getting pounded. If I were a consumer coming on here and reading that I woudln''t want to hand over ANY money to someone who is messing with it in an unruly manner. That perception could easily be conveyed to the reader here and it is far from being the truth.

Then it was said that I made certain promises regarding availability.

Then it was said that I was attacking, flaming and jabbing the client and blaming them for my mistake ... AND THAT I HAVE A HISTORY OF DOING THIS.

Anyone who has been around these forums for any period of time know I fess up to my erros and do not make excuses. I tackle them head on and do whatever I can within my power to make it right. I do not point fingers and run from my problems. I operate transparently Alj. You know this about me. What you see is what you get here. What hurt me most is Daniela (a client of ours), you and Mara were quick to believe I would wrong another person here.

Mara stated in her last post to me that she thought I went to the convention and sold all the stones that the client was hoping for. That would have really been a mean thing to do. I thought you guys knew me better than this.

 

[Rhino]

Date: 9/7/2005 7:36:36 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 9/7/2005 6:41:38 PM
Author: Rhino

YES ... the wait is frustrating. It is for me as well. If you were a vendor and I were buying from you and you had trouble locating what it is I wanted I would not leave you Mara because you''re having trouble finding it. Especially since I like you. Sure I may shop around to see if I could find it but when I know you''re working for me to find it, TO ME, that would not be a reason for complaint. I would appreciate the work you put into it and I''d also ask to reimburse you for any funds you spent trying to locate it if I wound up getting it elsewhere but I would not put your back against the wall if you failed to let me know every single move you made to try and get it.

I can appreciate that - absolutely. If I were the customer, I wouldn''t need you to phone me every three days to say ''Well, I called the supplier AGAIN today, but no dice.''

On the other hand, there is a VAST extreme between communicating every single move make and not communicating at all for months. I have to believe that somewhere in between those two extremes, there is a happy medium that both a reasonable consumer and a reasonable vendor can live with, and that happy medium will vary from customer to customer.

Clear and detailed communication--about expectations and appropriate follow-up intervals--could avoid all that.

Right on. If there is one thing I have learned from this thread IT IS THIS.

I think part of this stems from my own personality too. You see ... I HATE getting phone calls from sales people. I don''t like to be bothered. Even when I''m in the market for a particular piece of electronics and I place an order for it, I don''t like to be called until it''s in. If the saleman calls me to tell me its not in I''m like ... wth? What the heck did you call me for then? I want to know when its there and I can go pick it up! I realize not everyone thinks this way though.

 

[Rhino]

Date: 9/7/2005 7:48:14 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 9/7/2005 6:41:38 PM
Author: Rhino

I know it sounds impossible but Mara, believe me when I tell you, some stones just take longer to get and the shortage of rough does not help the situation. More frequent communication, while nice does not answer the problem either. I know if I were the client waiting, getting an email or phone call each day saying ... NOT YET ... might aggravate me more. I''d eventually get sick of hearing that and probably move onto a different shaped stone more quickly.

Yanno, I should have read your entire post before repllying.....I could have answered them all together.

The bold above really highlights the problem perfectly. You are telling people what you''d want if you were the customer....instead of hearing/listening to what they want as customers. And, you''re assuming that they would want what you want, instead of asking what they''d want. That''s when it does become a problem.

The problem isn''t that you can''t locate a stone. And honestly......a customer''s decision not to wait any longer for a given shape will happen regardless if they want a stone more quickly than it can become available. That just means they are going to look for a different shape.

I''d rather see them look for a different shape than a different vendor, though, wouldn''t you?

Absolutey. And thanks for your input Alj.

 

[Rhino]

Date: 9/7/2005 5:12:11 PM
Author: Mara

Clarify something for me willya...while their $7k was sitting.....the customer notes that you went to a convention and sold stones there without giving the existing waiting customers the first pick of the litter? If that''s the case, I''d be ticked off too. You didn''t really address that in your last response?

Not to bring this up again Mara but this demonstrates exactly what I was talking about earlier. How an innocent post, not meant to cause harm can be miscontrued to make me appear like a rat bastard. IT IS THIS PERCEPTION I AM LOOKING TO AVOID AT ALL COSTS. I haven''t worked hard all these years to be painted in this light. I hope you can understand how I feel.

 

[Mara]

"What hurt me most is Daniela (a client of ours), you and Mara were quick to believe I would wrong another person here. Mara stated in her last post to me that she thought I went to the convention and sold all the stones that the client was hoping for. That would have really been a mean thing to do. I thought you guys knew me better than this. "

________________________________

Oh the drama Rhino....!! Where's my violin?!?

I didn't STATE anything...I repeated what had been said earlier and asked you to CLARIFY something a customer said which you had not responded to earlier. Which you did, which is fine, fabulous! Your response made perfect sense to me. Why not just leave it at that? Also I'd like to point out that you said 'thanks for bringing that up' as if you appreciated the opportunity to clarify it. But no?

No one was quick to believe anything about you...people were just reacting to what was written about the experience. Personally for me it wasn't about YOU as someone I know...sorry if you felt that I should have said 'Oh Rhino would NEVER do that!!!'...that's not really my job is it. The customer said XYZ and I said..wow really! You came through and explained stuff and that was fine. Really I don't think a huge issue was being made of it either. Until now that is.

I agree that people are sensitive to criticism especially related to their work and/or what they could have done better, but I always prefer it when I see a vendor not lay any blame but rather just take responsibility for what happened even if it wasn't their fault. I do that all the time in my line of work because I want to keep my client happy...and it shows that I am putting my client and our long-term relationship first rather than a hesaid/shesaid. IMO where the others have said that you 'do this' frequently...that is how I took it. This going back and forth rather than just putting it out there and letting it be is when things can get odd.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 9/7/2005 8:46:47 PM
Author: Rhino

Yes. The fact that we were holding onto the 7k was brought up no less than 3 or 4 times ...

Because 3-4 people responded to that piece of it....not because ONE individual kept going on and on about it!

Someone said 'You mean they kept your 7k without producing product ... etc. then this kept coming up again and again. It became a magnified issue when in fact it wasn't an issue at all. I do not like it when people mess with my money and I'm sure nobody else does too. This kept getting repeated and repeated over and over and perhaps to me was magnified even more because we were the ones holding the money. This is a non issue yet it kept getting pounded. If I were a consumer coming on here and reading that I woudln't want to hand over ANY money to someone who is messing with it in an unruly manner. That perception could easily be conveyed to the reader here and it is far from being the truth.

Rhino, you are being way overly dramatic. A consumer coming on here reading that would also read the subsequent posts by Cute330 which clarified why. And that would have been the end of the drama....until you kept stoking it.

Then it was said that I made certain promises regarding availability. I don't see that. What I see is no clear communication regarding availability.

Then it was said that I was attacking, flaming and jabbing the client and blaming them for my mistake ... AND THAT I HAVE A HISTORY OF DOING THIS.

I don't know how you'd characterize your response, and I'm not going to characterize it other than to say I would have been offended if I were the customer you replied to that way. I'm not touching the history comment.....anyone here can do a forum search to draw their own conclusions.

What hurt me most is Daniela (a client of ours), you and Mara were quick to believe I would wrong another person here.

No, Rhino, I did not believe, nor did I SAY, that you would *wrong* another person here. Not even close. I'm going to go so far as to repost my ENTIRE post with Cliff Notes so that you get it right:

******HOLY COW! You had 7K of your money tied up for 4-5 months? God, I hope you got interest on it! (NOTHING about you in here, Rhino.....just that I cannot imagine tying up 7K of my money. Period. No judgments on why it's tied up, with whom, what for...nothing! Capice?

Seriously, that's whacked. Even a home purchase only requires 1-2K in earnest money!

I agree with Mara in that I wouldn't likely reward a vendor with a purchase who didn't respond, but that's just me. You got a stone you're really happy with, and that's what counts. This is the ONLY statement in my entire post that says anything relating to YOU.....and it's not exclusive to you. It applies to ANY vendor who doesn't respond. If that shoe fits, Cinderella, you have to wear it.

 

[Rhino]

Ok. All better.

Date: 9/7/2005 9:06:09 PM
Author: Mara

No one was quick to believe anything about you...people were just reacting to what was written about the experience. Personally for me it wasn''t about YOU as someone I know...sorry if you felt that I should have said ''Oh Rhino would NEVER do that!!!''...that''s not really my job is it.

If someone came onto this forum and said something that questioned your integrity Mara, YES I WOULD SAY SOMETHING IN YOUR DEFENSE. Because that would not be pointing to an error that you made but would be an assault on your integrity as a person and I know you better than that. However, you are right ... it''s not your job and I''m not asking for special treatment.

One reason why I may be a little sensitive to this thread too is because the last time a thread like this popped up the skewed picture that was being painted of me then turned out to be a competitor who was shilling and painting me in a bad light as a consumer. I don''t suspect that here at all but I try to be very careful when I read criticisms about me and see the discussion heading in a wrong direction.

 

[Rhino]

Can you, for a moment put yourself in my shoes? I do not wish to continue participating in this thread. If you would like to carry the discussion in pm with me I am happy to speak with you about it there. I fear any response I give at this point will be skewed or read wrong. I am not here to argue but I wanted the truth and the facts brought to light. That''s all. I''m done here.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 9/7/2005 8:59:07 PM
Author: Rhino

Date: 9/7/2005 5:12:11 PM
Author: Mara

Clarify something for me willya...while their $7k was sitting.....the customer notes that you went to a convention and sold stones there without giving the existing waiting customers the first pick of the litter? If that''s the case, I''d be ticked off too. You didn''t really address that in your last response?

Not to bring this up again Mara but this demonstrates exactly what I was talking about earlier. How an innocent post, not meant to cause harm can be miscontrued to make me appear like a rat bastard. IT IS THIS PERCEPTION I AM LOOKING TO AVOID AT ALL COSTS. I haven''t worked hard all these years to be painted in this light. I hope you can understand how I feel.

Jon, I say this with absolutely no malice, and in all sincerity........

Your posts are painting you in a much worse light than anything written in this thread previously. I mean that. Cute330 alluded to it, and I''m going to second it.

You are singlehandedly doing more to harm people''s perception of you than anything else.

How a vendor presents HIMSELF -- especially in difficult situations -- is MUCH more telling than how others portray him. Have you ever heard the saying "sometimes, even when you''re right, you''re wrong?" You should take this phrase to heart. You can be right about facts, but be wrong in how you handle yourself about them. That''s going on here.

I have to agree with Belle....I believe she is on the mark with her observations about the pattern of minimizing things.

 

[mrssalvo]

I think it''s interesting how what is written isn''t always interpreted the same. when I read cutegirls post it sounded to me like she and here fiance gave rhino a 7k deposit on the stone and then he sold stones out from under her while holding her money. it wasn''t until Rhino and Cutegirl both came back in and said this was not the case. If they decided to let Rhino hang on to their cash that was their choice and Rhino stated that putting down a deposit doesn''t give you a bump in the waiting list, which comes back to al''s point about the miscomunication. If a vendor was searching for a stone for me and it took more time than I wanted to wait I would find a new vendor or a new stone. If I were Rhino, I probably would be a little definsive as well. It was brought up that it shouldn''t matter that this situation is over a year old. But, from Rhino''s perspective, he must have been surprised at cutegirls post thinking the problem, if there was one was taken care of and she was ultimately happy with the final outcome. how many times do we suggest someone trying to resolve a problem with the vendor before posting here in public? I see nothing wrong with anyone''s post and think it was helpful and educational as well.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 9/7/2005 9:32:32 PM
Author: mrssalvo
I think it''s interesting how what is written isn''t always interpreted the same. when I read cutegirls post it sounded to me like she and here fiance gave rhino a 7k deposit on the stone and then he sold stones out from under her while holding her money. it wasn''t until Rhino and Cutegirl both came back in and said this was not the case. If they decided to let Rhino hang on to their cash that was their choice and Rhino stated that putting down a deposit doesn''t give you a bump in the waiting list, which comes back to al''s point about the miscomunication. If a vendor was searching for a stone for me and it took more time than I wanted to wait I would find a new vendor or a new stone. If I were Rhino, I probably would be a little definsive as well. It was brought up that it shouldn''t matter that this situation is over a year old. But, from Rhino''s perspective, he must have been surprised at cutegirls post thinking the problem, if there was one was taken care of and she was ultimately happy with the final outcome. how many times do we suggest someone trying to resolve a problem with the vendor before posting here in public? I see nothing wrong with anyone''s post and think it was helpful and educational as well.

I think you''re right on the money about interpretation. I can see how Cute330''s post may have been construed as you thought; I think the only reason I didn''t interpret it is "holding the money and selling stones from under her" is because I already know how tight the supply chain is for those stones, so I assumed that was the cause of delay.

Nevertheless, when Cute herself realized that incorrect interpretations were occurring, I think she was speedy in correcting misinterpretations to the best of her ability.

I think you''re also on the money that yes, we usually do try to suggest folks iron our their snafus with a vendor first. I think the difference in this instance is that it wasn''t a post started to take issue with the vendor in question about a problem that had never been brought to him. Rather, it was a general discussion about people''s experiences. I saw Cute330''s post as an incidental contribution to the overall theme in this thread.....not as a "here''s why no one should use GOG" type of thread.

And yes, I agree the thread was very educational.....how important communication is in a vendor/customer relationship.

 

[Daniela]

Date: 9/7/2005 8:46:47 PM
Author: Rhino
What hurt me most is Daniela (a client of ours), you and Mara were quick to believe I would wrong another person here.

Jonathan, be fair here. I asked a genuine question. It started with the phrase "Do you mean..." because I actually wanted clarification. The question was then answered by CG, at which time I did not comment further. I do not doubt your integrity as a business person. My question was neutral, it made no assumptions--it only asked for clarification. While I understand that clearing your name completely of any wrongdoing is important to you (you have, after all, built your business on your reputation), please don''t make assumptions about what was behind my very sincere request for information.

I find your statement kind of ironic because my dealings with you have given me the utmost confidence in your integrity as an honest business person. As far as I''m concerned GOG is still a work in progress on certain fronts, but that has absolutely nothing to do with my confidence in your business ethics.

 

[Mara]

I guess Rhino from my perspective that after your explanation responses that should have been it. The customer painted one view, you painted another and that was it. Why all the additional posts and the hurt feelings and just plain DRAMA. I don't think that anyone should be or feel defensive when there isn't a NEED. Someone said something, you explained it, that should have been the end of it. Rise above anything else going awry. Take responsibility even if it's not your problem. Instead it's all about the whole woe is me attitude rather than YES something went wrong and we will fix it. End of story.

After everything I said up above about just saying your piece and stepping away, you STILL had to come back and do the whole 'put yourself in my shoes' or 'I would defend you' (for the record I would never ask you to)...I think that many of us do see things from the vendor's perspective at times, other times we do not, and we need the story to be completed as you did WAY up above which was fine and set alot of things straight...but that is where I think that it should have ended. I agree that you do not continue to paint yourself in a positive fashion the more you rebut every post. Just my thoughts!

 

[Richard Sherwood]

That Rhino is one helluva rat bastard, isn''t he?

Why, just the other day I saw him deliberately trip an elderly lady in the street, and then yell at her for scuffing up his shoe!

 

[belle]

i realize that in the time that i have taken to compose a response to rhino''s post there are things that have already been addressed, but i feel they are worth repeating.

first of all rhino, i''m not going to spend my time searching your posts to find examples of your many excuses about why stones listed on your site are not in your inventory, your website problems, email problems, co-worker problems, system upgrades, references about customers who don''t contact you enough, or whatever your crises de jour is.
like alj said, when a crisis happens everyday, it'' no longer a crisis. it''s who you are.
let''s make it clear, i never said that you attacked anyone, but as far as i''m concerned, if you have to mention the customer for anything other than to commend them on their purchasing decision, it is a jab.

i came into this thread to point out that you always seem to have an excuse for things gone wrong. instead of addressing the issue, taking the blame and moving on, you start pointing fingers. you are doing here exactly what you have been critisized for.

 

[MrBleeker]

Sorry,

I don''t see Rhino as pointing at all. He has protected his image in a respectful way, and he has taken the suggestions from everyone else and plain and clear said he will try to improve his communications?

End of thread? Lol

 

[Rhino]

Dear Belle, Cute, and all here,

I have read through this thread once again, in a more relaxed frame of mind and I can certainly see how my comments (and some of those in the past) could have been contrued as giving excuses, jabbing and all the things you said. I really feel terrible about myself right now because I can understand where you are coming from and I also thank you for being candid and honest with me. I don't think you would do that if you did not care. While, in my heart I do not intend to say the wrong things and only want the best for everyone I can see how what I have written just came out so wrong in the eyes of some of you. I owe you an apology and yes you guys are right ... I do a heluva job of sticking my foot in my mouth sometimes eh? Belle ... Alj... seriously ... I was scratching my head wondering why you would say the things about me that you did. It really hurt me. You see ... I did need the help of a friend here to help me see your perspectives. Thank you Alj, I love you for it. Actually I love all you guys for it. I hope you can forgive me for any stupid and pompous words that came out of my mouth. I will make every effort to improve my communications.

Love you all,
Jonathan

 

[Mara]

Rhino....

 

[cute330xigrl]

Date: 9/7/2005 9:41:24 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 9/7/2005 9:32:32 PM
Author: mrssalvo
I think it''s interesting how what is written isn''t always interpreted the same. when I read cutegirls post it sounded to me like she and here fiance gave rhino a 7k deposit on the stone and then he sold stones out from under her while holding her money. it wasn''t until Rhino and Cutegirl both came back in and said this was not the case. If they decided to let Rhino hang on to their cash that was their choice and Rhino stated that putting down a deposit doesn''t give you a bump in the waiting list, which comes back to al''s point about the miscomunication. If a vendor was searching for a stone for me and it took more time than I wanted to wait I would find a new vendor or a new stone. If I were Rhino, I probably would be a little definsive as well. It was brought up that it shouldn''t matter that this situation is over a year old. But, from Rhino''s perspective, he must have been surprised at cutegirls post thinking the problem, if there was one was taken care of and she was ultimately happy with the final outcome. how many times do we suggest someone trying to resolve a problem with the vendor before posting here in public? I see nothing wrong with anyone''s post and think it was helpful and educational as well.

I think you''re right on the money about interpretation. I can see how Cute330''s post may have been construed as you thought; I think the only reason I didn''t interpret it is ''holding the money and selling stones from under her'' is because I already know how tight the supply chain is for those stones, so I assumed that was the cause of delay.

Nevertheless, when Cute herself realized that incorrect interpretations were occurring, I think she was speedy in correcting misinterpretations to the best of her ability.

I think you''re also on the money that yes, we usually do try to suggest folks iron our their snafus with a vendor first. I think the difference in this instance is that it wasn''t a post started to take issue with the vendor in question about a problem that had never been brought to him. Rather, it was a general discussion about people''s experiences. I saw Cute330''s post as an incidental contribution to the overall theme in this thread.....not as a ''here''s why no one should use GOG'' type of thread.

And yes, I agree the thread was very educational.....how important communication is in a vendor/customer relationship.

Al, you completely read my intentions perfectly! It was over a year ago. It was meant as a contribution to the theme of the thread. The post wasn''t "Has that rat bastard @GOG failed you?"

There were ALOT of very strong words used in your replies Rhino that sent this thread far more south than it should have ever gone. If you were uncertain of what I meant, it is ALWAYS good to ask (politely) for clarification first BEFORE responding in the manner which you chose. And frankly I was surprised to see this thread re-awakened by you considering you had pm''d me.

Overall, you have no control over when you get stones BUT you do have control over setting appropriate expectations. Someone said it best, you expect ppl to think and react to situations in the same fashion as yourself. But how is that possible when FI&I are not experts in your field? We relied off information you gave us initially. It was YOU who suggested we wait for the jubilees to come in. It was also YOU who led us to believe that we were part of less than a handful of couples to know of these new stones. Therefore we assumed we were EXTREMELY high on this " list". It is only now that I''m finding out there were many others who were promised the Jubilee before us. So either way you slice it, this situation has got poor communication written all over it no?

I''m sympathetic to how this public internet conversation can "piss" you off, but "put yourself in our shoes". Leaving 7 thousand dollars of your money w/ someone AND not recieving any updates on product (rounds or jubilees) is beyond discomforting. This is not a man vs woman sensitivity thing. Or at least not in my household. My opinions posted are from conversations I had w/ the FI. I dont care what/whos man it is.... Buying a $7,000 diamond symbolizing the commitment to another human being is nerve wrecking and highly emotional for every man! FI did not want that emotion compounded w/ fresh introductions to a new vendor and re-researching customer reviews and dealing w/ an outside vendor. Lucky for you I guess. The more I''ve had time to think about this, the more I''ve realized we really went the extra mile w/ GOG. We respectfully gave you the benefit of the doubt. Still purchased our stone from you and even recommended GOG to ppl we know. Yet you couldnt even give a prior customer the respect of just an apology to the effect of, " Cute, GOG is sorry we didnt inform you of the waiting list and failing to set your expectations appropriately. Pls accept our sincere apologies. We hope to see your business in the future. "

If you had stated that very reponse and that response ONLY, it would not have mattered what anyone else said in this thread. You would/could have been a star.

Cute OUT!

 

[cute330xigrl]

Date: 9/8/2005 12:20:55 AM
Author: Rhino
Dear Belle, Cute, and all here,

I have read through this thread once again, in a more relaxed frame of mind and I can certainly see how my comments (and some of those in the past) could have been contrued as giving excuses, jabbing and all the things you said. I really feel terrible about myself right now because I can understand where you are coming from and I also thank you for being candid and honest with me. I don''t think you would do that if you did not care. While, in my heart I do not intend to say the wrong things and only want the best for everyone I can see how what I have written just came out so wrong in the eyes of some of you. I owe you an apology and yes you guys are right ... I do a heluva job of sticking my foot in my mouth sometimes eh? Belle ... Alj... seriously ... I was scratching my head wondering why you would say the things about me that you did. It really hurt me. You see ... I did need the help of a friend here to help me see your perspectives. Thank you Alj, I love you for it. Actually I love all you guys for it. I hope you can forgive me for any stupid and pompous words that came out of my mouth. I will make every effort to improve my communications.

Love you all,
Jonathan

Ok Jon.


disclaimer: So many posts came in as I was typing my reply...just read this.

 

[belle]

group hug!