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Jeweler says my 2.05 I color AGS 000 VS1 is inferior to his 2.02 I color GIA Ex-VG-Ex SI1?

W

waveoff

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 5, 2022
Messages
44
Hello everyone! Long time lurker, first time poster. I have decided to have a custom engagement ring made for my girlfriend. The jeweler I am using previously made us a beautiful ring of diamonds and morganite set in 14k rose gold. His pieces are outstanding and he stands behind his work. Naturally, I wanted to use him again to make another ring.

He had two diamonds shipped in while I also searched online for a diamond. The nicer of the two that he showed me is a 2.02 I color GIA Ex-VG-Ex SI1.

The diamond I purchased is a 2.05 I color AGS 000 VS1.

Their respective certificates are attached to this post.

On paper, the AGS diamond beats the GIA diamond. Under a loupe, the AGS diamond also beats the GIA diamond. However, when the diamonds are sitting side by side the AGS stone is noticeably more silvery or darker. I tried taking a picture to show the difference. GIA on top, AGS on bottom.7FBC7AEC-7D9C-45F8-B413-342B09EE3249.jpeg

My jeweler said that AGS tends to be soft on color grades and that my AGS stone would be a J color with GIA. Needless to say, he is strongly pushing his GIA stone.

Here’s my dilemma. Do I stick with the AGS diamond that is noticeably sharper and brilliant with excellent specs or do I go with the GIA stone that looks lighter in color and has decent specs? The GIA stone $2,956 cheaper than the AGS stone.

The setting will be platinum with 4 prongs and split shanks that have a reverse taper towards the diamond. I worry that the contrast between the melee diamonds (F-H colored) and the main stone will be distracting and/or unappealing. The setting will look something like this…86AA74A3-B8DF-45F9-A754-151A70F8824A.jpeg
 

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Can you link the certs as pictures so people dont have to download pdfs? 99% chance that your stone is better than the jewelers and he is just trying to scare you. This happens a lot, and is unprofessional of him
 
So look at it this way - are you going to be seeing the AGS stone next to another stone of the same size when it's being worn? No? Why wouldn't you go with the one that was obviously sparklier to you, then?

Also worth pointing out the AGS diamond has a slightly larger face-up size than the GIA one.

I ran the GIA one through the HCA and it came back as a 1.5, dinged a little bit for spread. So it's not a bad diamond.
 
lovedogs said:
Can you link the certs as pictures so people dont have to download pdfs? 99% chance that your stone is better than the jewelers and he is just trying to scare you. This happens a lot, and is unprofessional of him
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It won’t let me edit my original post so here are pictures of the certs.
CC93284C-0FFC-45F1-8AA0-B370B8E4DD24.jpeg
 

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nala said:
Can you photograph both diamonds together under different lighting conditions?
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I will try to do this tomorrow when I see the jeweler!
 
distracts said:
So look at it this way - are you going to be seeing the AGS stone next to another stone of the same size when it's being worn? No? Why wouldn't you go with the one that was obviously sparklier to you, then?

Also worth pointing out the AGS diamond has a slightly larger face-up size than the GIA one.

I ran the GIA one through the HCA and it came back as a 1.5, dinged a little bit for spread. So it's not a bad diamond.
Click to expand...
SparklieBug said:
Which one appeals to your (and or your girlfriend's) eyes, in various lighting conditions? Which is more fiery/sparklie (if that's what you like) in a wider range of lighting?
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Thank you all for your input! As I mentioned, I was concerned about the contrast between the AGS stone and the melee diamonds. However, I just walked out of another jewelry store and had them place my stone in several platinum semi settings. It honestly looks great in various lighting conditions. 4 different people looked at it and said it’s a great stone and they wouldn’t think twice about mounting it in a setting like I had in mind.
 
Try viewing them side by side under various normal, everyday lighting conditions, NOT jewelry store lighting (which is designed specifically to hide flaws). In an office, bathroom, outside (or at least by a window not subject to jewelry store lighting), etc. While there have been grumblings about AGS being a bit softer on color than GIA, any color differences in the stones is not likely what is making them appear different in the picture above. Diamonds are graded by labs face down by labs. FWIW, I’d be concerned with the clouds and comment “additional clouds not shown” with a clarity grade of SI1 in the GIA stone. View the stone carefully under various normal lighting conditions and at various angles to see if it has any cloudiness/lack of crispness.

ETA: Adding a quick pic of 3 of my similar sized diamonds by a window in natural light. The pendant and one stud earring are graded I by GIA, the other stud earrings is graded H by GIA. Face up, only those who are exceptionally color sensitive would detect a difference and the color difference does not make the I stones appear darker than the G.
 

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I am well known as a proponent of "cutting matters more than color or clarity." Until you get into very low colors and SI2 (possibly) and the I's, clarity is rarely an issue to the unaided eye.

Sparkle can be seen across a crowded room.

While it is fun for people to claim "AGS is soft and assume that every diamond is over graded, it simply is only true on some borderline diamonds. People also like to assume that it is always AGS that graded the diamond incorrectly, which also is incorrect.

Grading is a complex issue and the human eye is not the same from one human to another. No one has yet been able to calibrate the human eye. Someday, there will be machines that can accurately determine color and which can be calibrated to within a 0.01 percent difference from one machine to another. Then this silly game of claiming one lab to be automatically inferior to the other will be without basis.

(When this much anticipated status is reached, I wonder how many of each labs previously graded diamonds will need to be changed to stay within the calibration?)

I will always come down on the favor of a properly cut diamond that is cut with both physical and optical symmetry to earn the AGS 000 cut grade. I will also always love the diamonds that are cut to the top of the cut grade rather than those hanging by their fingertips, declaring to all, look mom, I made it...
 
Kaycee2018 said:
Try viewing them side by side under various normal, everyday lighting conditions, NOT jewelry store lighting (which is designed specifically to hide flaws). In an office, bathroom, outside (or at least by a window not subject to jewelry store lighting), etc. While there have been grumblings about AGS being a bit softer on color than GIA, any color differences in the stones is not likely what is making them appear different in the picture above. Diamonds are graded by labs face down by labs. FWIW, I’d be concerned with the clouds and comment “additional clouds not shown” with a clarity grade of SI1 in the GIA stone. View the stone carefully under various normal lighting conditions and at various angles to see if it has any cloudiness/lack of crispness.

ETA: Adding a quick pic of 3 of my similar sized diamonds by a window in natural light. The pendant and one stud earring are graded I by GIA, the other stud earrings is graded H by GIA. Face up, only those who are exceptionally color sensitive would detect a difference and the color difference does not make the I stones appear darker than the G.
Click to expand...

Your stones are very nice and it’s very hard to see the subtle difference between the H and the two I diamonds.

When I was looking at my jeweler’s stone I could see the surface graining under 10X magnification. I mentioned this to him and he told me there was no way I was seeing the surface graining and it was just dirt. I definitely saw it on several facets though. It was kind of a turn off. Then again, who is really looking at their diamonds at 10X all of the time? While I do love his work, he does tend to talk down to his customers and tries to make them feel as if they know nothing about jewelry. I’ll see how his attitude is tomorrow when I tell him I’m using my stone. He’s not the only game in town.
 
Wink said:
I am well known as a proponent of "cutting matters more than color or clarity." Until you get into very low colors and SI2 (possibly) and the I's, clarity is rarely an issue to the unaided eye.

Sparkle can be seen across a crowded room.

While it is fun for people to claim "AGS is soft and assume that every diamond is over graded, it simply is only true on some borderline diamonds. People also like to assume that it is always AGS that graded the diamond incorrectly, which also is incorrect.

Grading is a complex issue and the human eye is not the same from one human to another. No one has yet been able to calibrate the human eye. Someday, there will be machines that can accurately determine color and which can be calibrated to within a 0.01 percent difference from one machine to another. Then this silly game of claiming one lab to be automatically inferior to the other will be without basis.

(When this much anticipated status is reached, I wonder how many of each labs previously graded diamonds will need to be changed to stay within the calibration?)

I will always come down on the favor of a properly cut diamond that is cut with both physical and optical symmetry to earn the AGS 000 cut grade. I will also always love the diamonds that are cut to the top of the cut grade rather than those hanging by their fingertips, declaring to all, look mom, I made it...
Click to expand...

Your perspective is appreciated and is definitely good food for thought. Thank you!
 
If I'm interpreting the plots correctly, then your AGS graded diamond will have an edge in performance and possibly even transparency than the GIA graded diamond. Keep the AGS diamond!

Screenshot_20221005-140730.png
 
DejaWiz said:
If I'm interpreting the plots correctly, then your AGS graded diamond will have an edge in performance and possibly even transparency than the GIA graded diamond. Keep the AGS diamond!

Screenshot_20221005-140730.png
Click to expand...

This x100! I can clearly see the difference - even in the picture the OP posted. It would be a very hard sell for me to disregard the AGS diamond. I abhor these jewelers who try to tell you that what you have in front of you is not what you have - such BS! Surface graining is one of those things that you might never see but once you have seen it, you can’t unsee it. In this case, GIA tells you it is there as it is mentioned in the comments.
 
DejaWiz said:
If I'm interpreting the plots correctly, then your AGS graded diamond will have an edge in performance and possibly even transparency than the GIA graded diamond. Keep the AGS diamond!

Screenshot_20221005-140730.png
Click to expand...

MissGotRocks said:
This x100! I can clearly see the difference - even in the picture the OP posted. It would be a very hard sell for me to disregard the AGS diamond. I abhor these jewelers who try to tell you that what you have in front of you is not what you have - such BS! Surface graining is one of those things that you might never see but once you have seen it, you can’t unsee it. In this case, GIA tells you it is there as it is mentioned in the comments.
Click to expand...

Thank you both for your input! I told my jeweler that I wish to use my diamond instead of his. I have a feeling he’s not going to be happy, but oh well!
 
Kaycee2018 said:
Try viewing them side by side under various normal, everyday lighting conditions, NOT jewelry store lighting (which is designed specifically to hide flaws). In an office, bathroom, outside (or at least by a window not subject to jewelry store lighting), etc. While there have been grumblings about AGS being a bit softer on color than GIA, any color differences in the stones is not likely what is making them appear different in the picture above. Diamonds are graded by labs face down by labs. FWIW, I’d be concerned with the clouds and comment “additional clouds not shown” with a clarity grade of SI1 in the GIA stone. View the stone carefully under various normal lighting conditions and at various angles to see if it has any cloudiness/lack of crispness.

ETA: Adding a quick pic of 3 of my similar sized diamonds by a window in natural light. The pendant and one stud earring are graded I by GIA, the other stud earrings is graded H by GIA. Face up, only those who are exceptionally color sensitive would detect a difference and the color difference does not make the I stones appear darker than the G.
Click to expand...

I don't mean to thread jack, but @Kaycee2018 , who did your bezel pendant? I love the clean-lines of it are so elegant!
 
waveoff said:
Thank you all for your input! As I mentioned, I was concerned about the contrast between the AGS stone and the melee diamonds. However, I just walked out of another jewelry store and had them place my stone in several platinum semi settings. It honestly looks great in various lighting conditions. 4 different people looked at it and said it’s a great stone and they wouldn’t think twice about mounting it in a setting like I had in mind.
Click to expand...

One thing I always keep in mind when thinking about diamond color.... many, many, MANY people do not have GIA or AGS graded diamonds. People who shop at regular mall stores instead of high quality jewelers have... who knows what! The average engagement ring color I see honestly looks about like an L to me. Just by getting a diamond graded by either of the top labs in a high color range and clarity range, you're already getting a much higher quality diamond than the average person is. I know the pursuit of perfection especially for an emotional purchase can take over, but it's also worth remembering that at this level, you are choosing between fine details with all your options being excellent choices.
 
Jewellers unfortunately tend to have a vested interest in recommending the diamonds they source. It’s part of how they make money.
Your money, your choice.
As with all things what’s “on the lab report” shouldn’t outweigh what your own eyes see. Diamonds are assessed upside down for colour and clarity at x10 magnification under specified lighting conditions. This is not what your unaided eyes can see in ordinary lighting like in the office, outside in the sun and shade etc.
What your eyes can see however is size and sparkle, the AGS diamond is better.
 
Is the setting you are using a stock setting? If it is being custom made, specifically ask for H/I colored melee.
 
both cleaned before comparing?
The pics look like the lighting is not doing either diamond any favors.
 
Bron357 said:
Jewellers unfortunately tend to have a vested interest in recommending the diamonds they source. It’s part of how they make money.
Your money, your choice.
As with all things what’s “on the lab report” shouldn’t outweigh what your own eyes see. Diamonds are assessed upside down for colour and clarity at x10 magnification under specified lighting conditions. This is not what your unaided eyes can see in ordinary lighting like in the office, outside in the sun and shade etc.
What your eyes can see however is size and sparkle, the AGS diamond is better.
Click to expand...

The AGS diamond does sparkle noticeably more. He tried to tell me that darker/warmer diamonds sparkle more for some reason. He then went into a long dissertation about how canary diamonds have a tunneling effect to them that make them look deep and mesmerizing. It was obvious from the get go that he was trying hard to make a sale on his stone. I can’t fault him for it, though, since he has a business and is trying to make a profit where he can.

lulu_ma said:
Is the setting you are using a stock setting? If it is being custom made, specifically ask for H/I colored melee.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice! The setting will be a custom setting similar to the one pictured in my original post.

Karl_K said:
both cleaned before comparing?
The pics look like the lighting is not doing either diamond any favors.
Click to expand...

Both diamonds were cleaned. My quick snapshot probably didn’t help matters. Plus, he was playing with the stones a lot and it was hard for me to get some decent pictures and/or video.
 
Kaycee2018 said:
The polish on the GIA stone is only VG. Yet another reason to be skeptical. It seems like you’ve made a decision. Congrats!
Click to expand...

I didn’t care for that right off the bat. But the jeweler said it was a minor detail in the big scheme of things. It was pretty obvious under magnification that the AGS diamond was just better all around.
 
It looks like our diamond pros have you covered! I just wanted to welcome you to the forum!!
 
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