Khalil Mahmoud

[Slickk]

@Mreader I put quotes around it because he graduated in December, 2024, plus he’s 31 (!). He is a part of CUAD.
The US doesn’t need to charge him. But they can deport when you conspire with terrorists.

 

[Mreader]

@Mreader I put quotes around it because he graduated in December, 2024, plus he’s 31 (!). He is a part of CUAD.
The US doesn’t need to charge him. But they can deport when you conspire with terrorists.

My understanding is that he completed the coursework, but the graduation ceremony is in May.

Edit - I don’t see how his age matters? Especially when it comes to higher degrees. There are people at my college that are doing their undergrad and they’re in their 50s.

If the gov tries deport somebody because they think said person conspired with terrorists, they need to produce evidence. That has not been done.

 

[Slickk]

@Mreader oh there’s plenty of video evidence of his behavior. It’s all out there. I have seen many such videos of him espousing his vile views. He is video recorded saying he was a lead negotiator at Columbia during their takeover of Hamilton Hall.
Since when does a group have the right to impede the rights of others? Especially those paying these tuitions!
I am shocked at the support he has. And so disheartened. Thank you for having a civil conversation about this.

Your right to swing your arm ends at my nose.

 

[Rockdiamond]

I totally get what you’re saying Slickk. I guess I’m living in a world that no longer exists.
The one where a Jew could defend Nazis right to march because the society at large would not tolerate Nazis.
Today, all kinds of causes find purchase. Flat earthers used to be a crazy guy standing on a corner. Thanks to the interwebs, there’s now large groups of people banded together with the belief that the earth is flat. The idea gains power.
I’d like to think the government would need to put all this together in a coherent package and bring charges to justifiably deport the guy, given that what you’ve seen is accurate. That’s by no means supporting the person- it’s supporting the rule of law.
That world is probably gone.

 

[OboeGal]

*sigh*

Due process.

I don't care how heinous someone's beliefs or actions are - if they are in the US legally, they are entitled to due process. I want to see real evidence - not internet memes. Not claims on social media. Not claims by politicians. Real evidence, and judged guilty through the proper impartial legal proceeding. If the evidence is there, that shouldn't be difficult. Anything else is essentially vigilante justice.

If you're OK with him not being shown due process, prepare to not receive it either when you are accused by someone of something, because that is what WILL happen if we let this stand.

We HAVE to separate our feelings about who someone is, what they believe, or what they've done from the Constitutional rights that they hold, or else we have become what we hate.

@Slickk, so far you haven't produced anything that indicates that he committed illegal acts. I'm not saying he has or he hasn't, but I haven't seen evidence of such, and none of us sitting here opinionating is equivalent to an impartial court trial. Our government can't detain or deport or otherwise legally punish someone for believing in something - to do so is both unconstitutional and Orwellian. He and others are allowed to desire to "bring down western civilization" all they wish - what is illegal is certain actions around that belief. Other actions around it are legal and allowed by our Constitution - he can fundraise, he can organize legal protests, he can help like-minded people to run for office, etc. Those of us who disagree with him can choose not to contribute, not to vote for like-minded candidates, to counter-protest, to speak against his beliefs, etc. He can even say utterly vile things, and people can speak out just as loudly against those vile things. That is our legal system, and it protects US to adhere to it. You're misunderstanding support for the legal protections of due process for ALL - not just those we agree with - for support for him and his beliefs. It's not the same.

I don't want to live in a country where the government has become "thought police."

 

[Mreader]

*sigh*

Due process.

I don't care how heinous someone's beliefs or actions are - if they are in the US legally, they are entitled to due process. I want to see real evidence - not internet memes. Not claims on social media. Not claims by politicians. Real evidence, and judged guilty through the proper impartial legal proceeding. If the evidence is there, that shouldn't be difficult. Anything else is essentially vigilante justice.

If you're OK with him not being shown due process, prepare to not receive it either when you are accused by someone of something, because that is what WILL happen if we let this stand.

We HAVE to separate our feelings about who someone is, what they believe, or what they've done from the Constitutional rights that they hold, or else we have become what we hate.

@Slickk, so far you haven't produced anything that indicates that he committed illegal acts. I'm not saying he has or he hasn't, but I haven't seen evidence of such, and none of us sitting here opinionating is equivalent to an impartial court trial. Our government can't detain or deport or otherwise legally punish someone for believing in something - to do so is both unconstitutional and Orwellian. He and others are allowed to desire to "bring down western civilization" all they wish - what is illegal is certain actions around that belief. Other actions around it are legal and allowed by our Constitution - he can fundraise, he can organize legal protests, he can help like-minded people to run for office, etc. Those of us who disagree with him can choose not to contribute, not to vote for like-minded candidates, to counter-protest, to speak against his beliefs, etc. He can even say utterly vile things, and people can speak out just as loudly against those vile things. That is our legal system, and it protects US to adhere to it. You're misunderstanding support for the legal protections of due process for ALL - not just those we agree with - for support for him and his beliefs. It's not the same.

I don't want to live in a country where the government has become "thought police."

So well said. You articulated way better than I have been able to.

 

[maryjane04]

@Mreader I put quotes around it because he graduated in December, 2024, plus he’s 31 (!). He is a part of CUAD.
The US doesn’t need to charge him. But they can deport when you conspire with terrorists.

Just because you're 31 doesn't mean you can't be a student. Anyway if that were true then anyone can be deported. So no one is really safe. Anyone can be accused of being a terrorist.

 

[missy]

Do any of you disagree with the following facts?

“
Khalil has been candid about his commitment to make Columbia uninhabitable until the university denounces Israel. “As long as Columbia continues to invest and to benefit from Israeli apartheid, the students will continue to resist,” he said. At Columbia, that “resistance has involved everything from erecting encampments on school property to directing death threats at Zionists to storming Columbia’s Hamilton Hall and taking maintenance staff hostage.

Videos appear to show Khalil standing with a bullhorn near the library’s entrance surrounded by keffiyeh-masked disruptors. The gathering featured propaganda bearing the label “Hamas media office,” including a booklet celebrating the October 7 massacre entitled, “Our Narrative . . . Operation Al-Aqsa Flood.”
“


Are taking staff members hostage legal? No.
Is supporting terrorists not a green card violation? Guess what? It sure is.

I’d share videos proving these allegations but Ella has asked us not to. Easily searchable however

 

[ShinyPink]

Again, our freedoms and rights are being violated under the guise of removing a potential terrorist. Government cannot arrest people who are dissidents or disagree with the administration, at least that was one of our founding principles. This can happen to anyone now. It's not about his actions; it's about the rule of law and our processes that we must not sacrifice.

Remember those "demonstrators" a few Januarys ago? They were "very fine people" who did receive due process. They could have been sent to Guantanamo for treason, or any other reason, without due process, like war criminals. They weren't, because the legal process was honored and followed. We cannot abandon our laws and rights and become Russia or N. Korea. We are headed there, but must fight back!

 

[missy]

Again, our freedoms and rights are being violated under the guise of removing a potential terrorist. Government cannot arrest people who are dissidents or disagree with the administration, at least that was one of our founding principles.

Actually no. Our freedoms and rights are not being violated. It’s a privilege not a right to be in this country as a foreigner. When one violates the conditions of their admission they can lose that privilege.

Mahmoud Khalil is facing deportation because of his conduct, including engaging in building takeovers. Criminal activity that endangers public safety and endorsing and espousing terrorist activity in contravention of the Immigration and Nationality Act.

This is not about freedom of speech. This case isn't about Khalil expressing his anti-Americanism and Jew-hatred through speech. This is about him acting on that hate. About planning and engaging in actions that deprive others of their rights.

It's Khalil's actions, not his words, that make him subject to deportation. I explained more about this in my posts above.

 

[Matata]

The same person who said all foreign students who protest against Israel will be deported said on TV tonight that anyone who protests against Tesla will "go through hell" and that the boycott of Tesla products is "illegal." Right there on TV from the horse's butthole is the threat to free speech, a threat against all American citizens for exercising their rights under the Constitution of the United States of America not only against free speech but also a threat of violence against American citizens.

Re: Mahmoud. He was illegally arrested. He has yet to be charged with a crime. If he is charged, the government must follow a legal process and has the burden of proving the reason he's deportable and if deportable only an immigration judge can take the green card away (NPR). The court of public opinion must wait for the federal judge, who heard the case yesterday, to render a legal opinion.

 

[Rockdiamond]

@missy i did google it. I saw quite a few news reports. The guy is on video speaking.
Not one of the reports I saw - including the NY Post ( extremely right leaning newspaper)- none of them had video of this guy being violent - or espousing violence.
Maybe such evidence exists. But I couldn’t find it. If it’s out there, news reports would be flogging it.
I know we see this differently and I’m glad for the opportunity to discuss it.
Yes, I’m a dreamer. The thought of people living together on the land. I saw it with my own eyes many times when I visited Israel over the years. Palestinian towns adjacent to Israeli towns.
The alternative, which seems inevitable at this point, is for each side to damage the other side and kill as many as they can.
Moderate Israelis and Palestinians exist. But they’re drowned out by people ready and willing to kill. So very sad.

 

[Matata]

The alternative, which seems inevitable at this point, is for each side to damage the other side and kill as many as they can.

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a genocide for a genocide. It's not a good plan and has never ever in the history of humankind stopped people from hating each other to the point of mutual extinction.

Santayana was wrong when he said "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" for we've seen and are seeing proof that those who remember the past are determined to repeat it.

 

[missy]

Yes, I’m a dreamer. The thought of people living together on the land.

David, I used to be a dreamer. In the past I really did think a two state solution was possible. I no longer think that is even remotely possible.

Please answer me this if you can...the neighbors of the jews murdered on October 7th...when Hamas breached the Gaza Israeli border...attacking military bases and massacring civilians in 21 communities, including Be'eri, Kfar Aza, Nir Oz, Netiv Haasara to name a few ...It was their very own Palestinian neighbors who turned them in so to speak...who pointed out where they were. The same neighbors these Israelis considered friends. Those who were brutally murdered in those communities were among the most liberal. Ironic isn't it?

How can we coexist in a two state solution with those who want us dead????

This is fact David. The great majority of Palestinians do want the jews dead. I too appreciate the chance to discuss but this is not up for debate. I mean you can continue asking for proof but if you search it is there.
Time and time again this keeps happening. They break their ceasefire. Time and time again they could have had their own state.
They had many chances.
If they really wanted their own state they would have had it by now.
The reason they don't is because that was never their goal. We all know what their goal is though don't we?

The Jews and the Palestinians make peace with a ceasefire and the Palestinians keep breaching it. They have said quite plainly they have no interest in a two state solution. They are not lying. I believe them. They do not want to share.
They only want to destroy Israel and then the jews and then take over the world.
The Jews and Israel are in their way. Thank g-d for Israel because they are the only ones standing up for what is right in the Middle East. Israel is the only country that allows people to be who they are. Transgender, gay, women, minorities, etc.
The Palestinians never wanted to share. Did you ever ask why no one else will take the Palestinians? We all know why.
As for Israel and the Jews...How do we make peace with people who want to wipe us off the map and truly want us dead?

Muslims have been mass killing Christians, Jews, and other Muslims and enslaving Africans since the 7th century. That's how the Islamic Caliphate was established. And Islamic imperialism and genocide. It's the 21st century but the rules of the Islamic Caliphate have not changed. To those reading.- If you don't know this read a history book.

As for Khalil Mahmoud, let him have due process. I pray the system works. It doesn't always so it is not a given he will be deported. I 100% know he deserves to be deported from all I have witnessed. And yes those videos exist. That's the beauty of all this. It is all on video. Including but not limited to the brutal massacre of October 7th. It is all on video. Did anyone watch those videos? The horror of October 7th? The brutal rapes, beheading and murders of innocent people? The cheering from the Palestinians as this was happening?

ALL on video yet PSers and other people keep refusing to believe what they are seeing is true. I don't know what more evidence one needs except to think that many here are anti semitic and don't even realize it. That's the thing about antisemitism. It takes such a strong insidious hold that many who are won't even admit it to themselves because there is NO reason for it. It is unlike any other form of racism in that it takes such strong hold and so many cannot admit to themselves that yes, they are antisemitic.

Imagine being an American who has remained silent for 17 months about the hostages and the brutal murders of all those Israelis only to find your voice to speak out about Khalil Mahmoud. A non citizen who supports terrorists. And for whoever doesn't think he is a terrorist supporter please wake up. Does that bother you at all? Many of my PS friends have left over how anti semitic PSers are behaving.


The two state solution is dead David. Cold stone dead IMO. The overwhelming majority of Palestinians agree with and support Hamas. Fact. The Palestinians say Israel has no right to exist. Fact. How do you have a two state solution with people who want you dead.

Their ultimate goal is to wipe Israel off the map. That is not a peace process. That is genocide.
Palestinians never cared about statehood. They only care about destroying the Jewish state.

How many times?
How many ways?
In how many languages?
Does Hamas need to say
We don't want a ceasefire
We will never surrender
We will never stop til Israel
And all Jews are destroyed
And then we will go on to conquer the world

 

[missy]

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a genocide for a genocide. It's not a good plan and has never ever in the history of humankind stopped people from hating each other to the point of mutual extinction.

Santayana was wrong when he said "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" for we've seen and are seeing proof that those who remember the past are determined to repeat it.

Please Matata what is happening is only a genocide against the jews and not even remotely a genocide against Palestinians. Not. Even. Close. But keep believing the poison Hamas is spewing

And make no mistake about this. They are trying to rewrite history to address your history repeating comment. They are twisting it and rewriting history and that is terrifying

 

[missy]

I wasn't there.....but based on reputable sources, the demonstrations went beyond allowable freedom of speech.
Peaceful protests would not prevent students from going to class- or harrass specific groups.

Exactly but again, not to beat a dead horse so to speak, they don't want the truth. Because it just doesn't fit their narrative. So despite plenty of evidence of all that has transpired during and after October 7th they will continue asking for proof. Why? Because the truth does not fit the narrative they have in their heads. And when presented with facts they refuse to believe. How else can any of us explain all that is on video and yet still people deny what actually happened.


Did you all see jewish students being prevented from attending classes on college campuses? Because of the (not even remotely peaceful) "peaceful" demonstrations? Was that OK with you? I didn't hear anyone here speaking up for them yet here we are with many PSers defending a person who wants to destroy America. Don't believe it? That's because you don't want to. And tbh sometimes I feel the same way. Because if I believe all that is actually happening I have ZERO faith in humanity, Had you asked me two or three years ago if another Jewish Holocaust could happen in the future I would have said no. Now I know is already has and can again.

 

[Rockdiamond]

@missy
There’s no discussion possible when people are so dug into a position that they can never possibly consider alternatives. That’s how you describe the Palestinians. So many “facts” that aren’t actually facts but opinions.
Do a lot of Palestinians hate Israel and the Jews, yes. No question. Do all Palestinians feel, this way? No, no question.
The world is grey, not so black and white.
But the sad truth is that on both sides, the loudest most powerful voices are unyielding.
I would ask you …. What’s the end solution? Kill every Palestinian?
As a Jew, I hope I’m “allowed” to ask such questions.
I encourage you….critical thinking. Just because someone asks these questions does not make them antisemitic-regardless of their religion.
Does antisemitism exist? Absolutely…it’s horrible.
Does every person who doesn’t express sufficient horror at the horrors we’ve experienced antisememitic?
I hope not.
But by deciding that anyone who takes a moderate stance to be antisemitic…..it dulls the argument. The word “genocide” is just another tool to divide us. “It’s my genocide’, “no it’s mine!” Too many people killed on BOTH sides.
But your views are widely held, just as the heinously bad on the other side …..so the killing will continue. Business as usual.
If the videos of the guy in question being violent or espousing violence exist, I can’t find them. And I looked
What is truly horrifying ( among the plethora of terrifying things lately) is how willing so many people are to give up the values that made us great just to punish the other side. Vigilantism. Sad.

 

[missy]

What’s the end solution?

I am no expert but we cannot coexist
David, I can say the same of you
You are so dug in I hesitated to even post
But I don't post for you
I post for those with an open mind
I have an open mind but time and time again I see the reality
And what I wrote is, sadly, the reality

Yes no black and white
Yes there are some Palestinians who do not want our destruction
But the OVERWHELMING majority do

I am sorry but we will have to agree to disagree and while I am not religious I pray things work out
I pray for no more murder, torture, death
I pray for peace
As unlikely that is to ever happen

And I pray for Israel and for the jewish people to continue to exist
Our enemies only pray for our death and for the destruction of Israel
Note- I do not pray for our enemies death because I am not wired that way

What I find truly horrifying is your willful ignorance David
How you misinterpret so much of what I write
And what others share off PS
Vilifying all who disagree with you

I value life
Unlike our enemies David

 

[Rfisher]

Does antisemitism exist? Absolutely…it’s horrible.
Does every person who doesn’t express sufficient horror at the horrors we’ve experienced antisememitic?
I hope not.
But by deciding that anyone who takes a moderate stance to be antisemitic…..it dulls the argument.

Thank you David, for saying this. It also dulls the wish to be better, to do better, not be labeled that. It gets to the point it dulls the shock of being labeled that. Full acceptance , no, but dulled shock and disgust - yes.

 

[missy]

Thank you David, for saying this. It also dulls the wish to be better, to do better, not be labeled that. It gets to the point it dulls the shock of being labeled that. Full acceptance , no, but dulled shock and disgust - yes.

Yes blame me for your behavior
Not surprising at all
That’s the MO of anti semitic rhetoric

 

[missy]

I’m going to share this quote because it resonates strongly with me and should resonate with every single person here. If it doesn’t it’s time to reexamine your beliefs and principles

“
The threat posed by the pro-hamas, Palestinian community is a ticking time bomb endangering the very fabric of American society and global stability. This movement's ideology is a toxic blend of anti semitism and anti-American sentiment. Fueled by a misguided sense of solidarity with a terrorist organization responsible for heinous crimes against humanity. As the movement continues to spread like a cancer over the USA and the world it is imperative that Americans and all people of conscience worldwide recognize the alarming signs and take an active stand against this menace. Anti semitism has destroyed every society it infects...let us not be too late in diagnosing it before it destroys us. “

Author Joe Cohen

 

[jeweln]

Aren't politics banned on PS ?

 

[Matata]

Please Matata what is happening is only a genocide against the jews and not even remotely a genocide against Palestinians. Not. Even. Close. But keep believing the poison Hamas is spewing

And make no mistake about this. They are trying to rewrite history to address your history repeating comment. They are twisting it and rewriting history and that is terrifying

I understand your emotional reaction to this situation and your inability to objectively understand and tolerate others' perspective. I understand the ongoing pogrom against the Jewish people. I know Hamas and many others' goal is the extermination of the Jews. I'm not an idiot who swallows propoganda. I can champion a victory for Israel over Hamas, understand the necessity of the method, and dislike the method all at the same time WITHOUT BEING ANTISEMITIC. I despise the accusation of anti-semitism against all people who criticize Israel, the Jews, Netanyahu, the Jewish government, the ongoing endless hatred and killing. It is the insult of casting everyone under the anti-semistism cloak that is contributing to people losing sympathy for the Jewish plight.

Hamas wants to destroy all Jews = genocide. Netanyahu wants to destroy Hamas = genocide.

Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
genocide: the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.

Listening to our president's and Netanyahu's plan for turning Gaza into a playground for the rich is disgusting as is the request for other countries to absorb all the Palestinians from Gaza -- i.e. cleanse Gaza of Palestinians. It is barbaric. The barbarism exists on all sides. That Netanyahu is in bed with a convicted felon liar sexual abuser dictator who is daily violating the Constitution and depriving Americans of their rights in order to have unfettered access to the "lovely" beaches in Gaza is disgusting. Thinking that if their plan comes to fruition there will be no more pogroms against the Jewish people is stupid.

Extreme Islamists have made it very clear to the world for a long time that they want the destruction of Western civilization raising the spectre of a nuclear end to that disagreement. It is frightening. It is disgusting. It is the human way.

 

[missy]

@Matata fwiw I don’t think you’re antisemitic

 

[nala]

I’m going to share this quote because it resonates strongly with me and should resonate with every single person here. If it doesn’t it’s time to reexamine your beliefs and principles

“
The threat posed by the pro-hamas, Palestinian community is a ticking time bomb endangering the very fabric of American society and global stability. This movement's ideology is a toxic blend of anti semitism and anti-American sentiment. Fueled by a misguided sense of solidarity with a terrorist organization responsible for heinous crimes against humanity. As the movement continues to spread like a cancer over the USA and the world it is imperative that Americans and all people of conscience worldwide recognize the alarming signs and take an active stand against this menace. Anti semitism has destroyed every society it infects...let us not be too late in diagnosing it before it destroys us. “

Author Joe Cohen

I want to say that when the pro Gaza ( not pro Hamas) protests started creeping up on college campuses, many were very peaceful. Some were hunger strikes, I believe. And none of the actual students really equated Gaza with Hamas or with anti-semitism. Had the media and the college administrators ignored their protests, they would have all stopped within days—going as quietly as they started bc college kids have better things to do—like studying, partying, etc. But the anti-Semitic rhetoric started flying around and deans were fired. Students were threatened, expelled, etc. The USC valedictorian was not allowed to speak (fact check me) for concerns that she would be pro Gaza. The Jews in America viewed these protests as anti-Semitic. Sorry to say, but that is not reality. I knew that our new president would be elected as a result of this conflict which is so ironic given what he stands for. I just can’t believe that we are now in his hands thanks to this conflict which should be neither here nor there to those of us living in America.

FWIW, yes. We were all horrified by OCT 7th. No. We don’t all support free Gaza. A handful of people protested but you know, let’s elect the most radical leader bc you know, right now he is claiming to be on our side. Let’s betray all our values and principles for a conflict that is not our business nor has ever had a solution. Make a pact with the devil and Your time will come too. How was electing him and exalting him not “repeating the past”? What makes you think his radical policies will not impact you? Do you really think it was worth it?

 

[missy]

FWIW, yes. We were all horrified by OCT 7th. No. We don’t all support free Gaza

Thank you for this

 

[Ella]

Folks, keep it kind and civil or we will be closing this thread and similar topics. If you can't discuss a difficult topic without namecalling we will be stopping discussions on those topics.

 

[Matata]

If you can't discuss a difficult topic without namecalling we will be stopping discussions on those topics.

Please clarify what you mean by namecalling. Calling someone a libtard, a repukelican, sissypants, dingdong is, imo, namecalling. I personally get irate if someone calls me anti-semitic and I might be insulted by it but I don't consider it namecalling although I understand that others may not agree with me. So if you can give us a general parameter for what constitutes namecalling it would be helpful.

I've seen examples throughout various discussions where an insult or namecall against an idea, a principle, an ideology has been mistaken for an insult against a poster expressing the idea, principle, ideology which makes things all the more confusing when it's reported and a warning is issued. Perhaps a rule that one can insult the post but not the poster would help. In that case the responsibility is on posters to carefully write their responses to the ideas expressed rather than the person expressing them (for example: that is a dumb idea rather than you're dumb to believe that) and anyone who can't abide by that can be handled in whatever way you choose rather than ending the entire thread.

Thanks for reading through all that. Not trying to be a mod, just trying to suggest things that might make it better/easier for all of us.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

My math for opinion is different.
The subject everyone dances around.
From the outside, pretty damned stark.

14,500 Palestinian children killed, 25,000 injured. So far.
Palestine has the highest number of child amputees per capita in the world,
unprecedented in modern war.

Deaths: 48,000 Palestinians to 1200+ Israeli, total casualties.

Nobody seems to want to mention the tens of thousands of children.
Personally, I can't care what your ideology may happen to be at that point.

All I see is children. Tens of thousands of children.

 

[ShinyPink]

We could turn things around and ask why the billionaire is still here when he makes jokes on the largest platform that have been condemned by the ADL. I see this as the biggest threat to peace and ending antisemitism. But again, our laws do not apply to all and that is hugely dangerous.