Ladies! Question for you

[fire&ice]

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On 4/12/2003 9:27

2 AM aljdewey wrote:


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On 4/11/2003 11:52:52 AM Mara wrote:

Fire & Ice, you were quite fortunate to have had a more positive outlook on it. Perhaps you'd already found your significant other, and perhaps you already had achieved some of the biggies. Or perhaps you just experienced it differently, and that's great! Our friends' reaction to it was very real, though, and I couldn't agree more with Mara that it was really tough to witness at the time. Thank goodness they see it now from a different perspective!
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One only grows through challenge & change. At 30, I had been married a few years, coped with the death of a sibling, dealt with bad MIL/SIL problems, moved from my hometown (to a city where neither of us knew anyone), built our own house, on my 3rd career (which hubby supported fully) & participated in Hubby's career building.

At 30, I realized how blessed I was. Heck, I was still *consistently* being carded. I *wanted* to look older. "Things" didn't seem to get me as much. I was, in a word, "content". This was a realization & not something that happened overnight. It wasn't important to have a bigger house, best car or bigger diamond - just kidding on the last one. Money became viewed as something that just plain made your life more comfortable. It was not about acquiring "material" goods. Nor proving success through outward symbols.

Maybe I'm one to focus on what I have - rather than what I don't have. Just prior to meeting my husband, I was resigned to be unmarried at 30. The first time I knew my husband was falling in love with me he proclaimed "I'm not getting married until I am 30!" In other words, don't get any ideas. We were engaged three months later & married at 24ish.

I guess I am sad that one would have a hard time w/ 30. To me, it's a reason for celebration. Introspection is a good thing; but, not thinking that your life is what it should be (at such a young age) is sad.

At the end of the day, why ponder life's mysteries (or lack there of) one day in one's life? The moment one turns 30 should not be the only day of introspection.

Sorry to be so long - Age is *only* a frame of mind.

 

[Caratz]

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"Agreed Grudge has a point........although not a very romantic notion.

But, I sincerely believe that a women has every *right* to keep the engagement ring if the man calls it off because of a change in heart (sans infidelity). Engagement rings come with protocol & tradition. I don't care what the legal issue is. Some things should be honored. PERIOD.

That said, if a women changes her mind, the right thing would be to give the ring back.

While reality may dictate that the ring is a commodity/asset, the symbolism out weighs reality.

I think I have been on this soapbox before."
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Oh F&I, I think we have both soapboxed this issue before.

The funny thing is that I am a true believer in protocol, tradition, and symbolism, and *for that very reason* I come to the opposite conclusion.

Speaking from a guy's perspective, an e-ring is not a simple gift. It is an investment in a relationship. It is presented in the expectation of making the relationship permanent, of two people being joined together so that there is no longer any such thing as "mine" or "yours" -- but everything now becomes "ours". To me, this symbolism outweighs the reality of seeing this as a commodity, or as a gift. If the marriage doesn't happen, I don't think it matters who is at fault, or who broke it off. The only reason the ring was ever presented was in the hope that something would happen that didn't come to pass, and in my mind the honorable thing to do at that point is to return the ring.

Am I too idealistic?

Too much of a romantic?

 

[fire&ice]

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On 4/12/2003 10:41:30 AM Caratz wrote:

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Oh F&I, I think we have both soapboxed this issue before.

Speaking from a guy's perspective, an e-ring is not a simple gift. It is an investment in a relationship. It is presented in the expectation of making the relationship permanent, of two people being joined together so that there is no longer any such thing as "mine" or "yours" -- but everything now becomes "ours". To me, this symbolism outweighs the reality of seeing this as a commodity, or as a gift. If the marriage doesn't happen, I don't think it matters who is at fault, or who broke it off. The only reason the ring was ever presented was in the hope that something would happen that didn't come to pass, and in my mind the honorable thing to do at that point is to return the ring.

Am I too idealistic?

Too much of a romantic?

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Caratz, men are a mystery to me. Normally, hubby & I see eye to eye. I just asked him about how he felt. The engagement ring should be returned to the man - period.

I agree with him & you WITH the exception of the man totally breaking it off. A women has time & money invested at this point in the wedding & planning for future life. I think it would be the right thing for the man to let the women keep the ring. Or better yet, just not ask for it back.

I am not negating the fact that the ring is a symbol. I doubt I would want to keep such symbol; but, tradition dictates that the "scorned" women may keep the ring.

 

[Caratz]

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I agree with him & you WITH the exception of the man totally breaking it off. A women has time & money invested at this point in the wedding & planning for future life. I think it would be the right thing for the man to let the women keep the ring. Or better yet, just not ask for it back.

I am not negating the fact that the ring is a symbol. I doubt I would want to keep such symbol; but, tradition dictates that the "scorned" women may keep the ring.
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F&I

Maybe our positions are not that different after all.

I agree that if the guy breaks it off he should not ask for the ring back. There is something tactless about having to ask for the ring back.

However, as a matter of honor, I think that the woman should always offer the ring back (if not insist that the guy take it back).

The idea of permitting the "scorned" woman to keep the ring brings out the worst in the woman -- at least that how I see it. No woman would want to keep the ring for the symbolic value. Why else would she want it? For revenge? To satisfy materialistic greed? As "compensation" for being wronged? Maybe this is the harsh reality of life, but it goes against the grain of my still-idealistic view of the world.

Thanks for your input. I am always curious to know how others looks at things like this.

-Caratz

 

[kaylagee]

to me, it would depend on how close the break was to the actual wedding date.

if the planning & spending hasn't started yet then i feel she should give the ring back(unless he does something really ugly to cause the break, like cheating etc. maybe she can cash in the ring for therapy session money), but if the bride's and/or her family has already started preparations then she should be able to keep the ring.

If the woman calls it off, she should give the ring back i think.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 4/12/2003 5:51:50 PM kaylagee wrote:

to me, it would depend on how close the break was to the actual wedding date.

if the planning & spending hasn't started yet then i feel she should give the ring back(unless he does something really ugly to cause the break, like cheating etc. maybe she can cash in the ring for therapy session money), but if the bride's and/or her family has already started preparations then she should be able to keep the ring.

If the woman calls it off, she should give the ring back i think.
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Caratz, this is at the heart of my position. Women often occur much expense "up front" for a wedding. Of course, guy man (sigh-hubby) thinks this should be treated separately from the engagement ring............*this* coming from a man who has been my partner & husband of 20 years........geesh...can't live with them....can't shoot them..

I also agree that a grievous offense warrents keeping the ring.

 

[kaylagee]

."......geesh...can't live with them....can't shoot them.."

LOL!

i know everyone's situation is different but my parents and i spent much more on the wedding(and it was a small one) than my ring cost.

 

[Spyder]

Keep in mind that diamonds have little resale value. A normal person (not in the industry) will be lucky to get 50% of what they paid for it.