Ladies who were ready before their SO, do you have doubts?

[brooklyngirl]

I''ve been having a bit of a hard time the last few weeks. I keep wondering if bf is really ready for marriage/engagment on his own accord, or if I somehow pushed him. Here''s our background story (LONG):

We met freshman year of college, and got together in the middle of senior year, and have been together ever since (4 years). 2 years ago we moved in together, which was my idea and he was apprehensive about it at first, and then warmed up to it. I now think this was the dumbest move I could have ever made

. About half a year after we moved in I caught the engagement bug, as I saw most of our friends become engaged and married all in the same year.

I brought this up to bf, who experienced a whole range of emotions (form anger to confusion, to not wanting me to ever mention it again). This is when the LIW insanity (that we all know and despise) started.

This summer, I became so fed up with him not being ready that I set a timeline for myself to leave in the middle of February. I even had the whole thing planned about, re date, and where I was going to live, etc.

As all this was happening bf was offered a promotion, and was told he would need to move to the west coast to start the new position (bf currently works from home). His boss told him that there was no rush to this, and he could wait a while and let him know when/if he is ready to make the move. Bf wanted me to move with him, and I told him point blank that I am not moving anywhere without a ring on my finger, that I was insulted that he would even ask such a thing, things being the way they are.

At the end of August during an LIW moment he told me that he wanted to ask me to go ring shopping sometime in September, but couldn''t bc of the constant arguments. This definitely soothed my nerves, and the anxiety stopped -- until close to the end of September, when he still didn''t ask me to go ring shopping. When I confronted him about it he said that it slipped his mind, and that he just *forgot*

. How exactly does one just forget about getting engaged, especially since it''s a huge source of friction in the relationship? This conversation erks me to this day, and I sometimes wonder whether he took me ring shopping just to quiet my nerves, and not because that''s what he wanted to do.

During our few months of ring shopping (until my e-ring was ordered) he seemed to be researching diamonds, was getting a bit frustrated at the end that we still had not picked one. On thanksgiving weekend we went to Vegas, and as luck would have it found my ring there. He spotted it, and proclaimed that it''s "the one" and I agreed. We did not purchase it there, as I (thanks to PS) knew the ring was overpriced, and wanted to find a better deal on it online. He, however said that he doesn''t care that it''s overpriced, and that if I love it, we should just buy it

. This is unheard of from him, as he is super frugal, and will not buy anything if he feels it''s overpriced (i.e. I send bf out to the corner store for paper towels because we''re out, and he comes back empty handed because he knows they''re on sale somewhere else

).

When we got home from our trip, I took the lead in procuring the e-ring, found it online, found an appraiser, and got the whole process going. Once I communicated my exact specifications to the vendor, I was kicked out of the loop, and bf took care of payment.

Well, now that it''s been ~6 weeks from that day, I have been very curious about this, and I keep asking him if he has a plan or if the ring is here, and he is not talking. He keeps saying that he doesn''t have a plan yet (and I think he''s sincere about that) when I ask.

If you''ve gotten to the end of this horribly long post, I guess my issue is that I don''t think he is very excited about engagement, and that maybe he feels pushed into it. I have asked him if that''s the case, and he says no. I tend to believe him because he is not easily pushed into things, and will not say he''s thinks A if he really thinks B.

I don''t want to marry him if he has even a smidge of doubt, and I have this feeling that he is somewhat not ready. We are slated to move to the west coast sometime in the middle of this year, and I am wondering if maybe that''s the push factor.

So, to the ladies who''ve been here before, how do you deal with this uncertainty?

 

[sunnyd]

I''m sorry you''re going through this; it doesn''t sound fun.

The only thing I wanted to point out is that maybe because engagement talk has been the source or arguments and hurt feelings for you both, he isn''t really that excited about it. You know? That''s what he associates an engagement with. Honestly it doesn''t sound like he''s ready. He wants to make you happy by letting you think that things are moving forward, but he''s just not where you are yet. I don''t know, hopefully I''m wrong.

 

[brooklyngirl]

Date: 2/4/2008 12:14:32 PM
Author: sunnyd
I''m sorry you''re going through this; it doesn''t sound fun.

The only thing I wanted to point out is that maybe because engagement talk has been the source or arguments and hurt feelings for you both, he isn''t really that excited about it. You know? That''s what he associates an engagement with. Honestly it doesn''t sound like he''s ready. He wants to make you happy by letting you think that things are moving forward, but he''s just not where you are yet. I don''t know, hopefully I''m wrong.

I suppose I need to have a talk with him. I''m just not sure how to have such a discussion without tears...

.

 

[KateMB]

My situation sounds similar to yours. My boyfriend makes vague comments about the future, but he never actually DOES anything about it. I think that he just says things to try to make me happy, and more importantly to shut me up but he doesn''t have any intention of actually proposing any time soon.

This has caused me to become a crazy person who watches programs about weddings and who cries, yells and picks fights with the man I love. He says that he''ll never do it if I keep pressuring him, but I can''t help but bring it up when it is almost always on my mind. I honestly do not think that he would do it on his own without me bringing it up either.

I wish that he would just tell me if it isn''t ever going to happen so I can decide if I want to stay with him, but he won''t.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I know how you're feeling right now and I know how much it stinks. You want to be excited about the engagement, but the way it's happened is just sort of anti-climactic.

When D proposed to me the first time he did so without a ring and it was based on a deadline he set for himself. We picked out a stone and setting together and created something we both liked, but he was really dragging his feet to get it done. Finally I sat down and asked him if he was ready and he said he wasn't and that he felt like he was giving into pressure. To this day, that was the hardest conversation I've ever had. I knew that I could hold his hand through the engagement, but I couldn't do it and be happy, so I left.

I'm not saying you should leave, but if he needs more time, then you should know. A friend of mine married his girlfriend before he was ready based on a deadline he'd given himself and the engagement was tough on both of them. He faced his fears with a counsellor the first few months of marriage (and now they've been happily married for several years), but the engagement period was tough. He admits that he wishes he'd gotten over his fears first, but the truth is if he'd waited, she might not have stuck around.

D did get past his fears first--he proposed a few months after I left and was very ready at that point, so I know what it's like to be engaged to a man who isn't ready and excited and I know what it's like to be engaged to (and married to) a man who is really excited about marriage and it's like night and day.

If he isn't ready, it's completely your choice to leave the relationship, stay and wait or even move forward with wedding planning (though I wouldn't recommend it!), but you need to know where you stand first. And he needs to be very honest with you, even if it means hurting you.

Or, you know, maybe it's nothing and he's just nervous about spending the money! Who knows!

 

[jdinsf]

I''m sorry that you are going through this

. I think every LIW gets anxious about this issue from time to time. I think you absolutley did the right thing in refusing to move without a comittment, and it sounds like you SO got the message. However, I can understand your hesitation about whether he is actually comitted, or just wants to pacify you. Have you tried talking to him about wedding plans? Doing so might be very telling. If he''s willing to discuss a time line for the wedding (and it''s a reasonable amount of time), and has (even vauge) ideas about where he wants to get married, etc, I''d say he is fully behind the idea. However, if he won''t discuss at least a time line, I''d be weary... the last thing you want to do is move out West with your fiance and ring, only to find yourself "permanantly engaged."
Good luck!!!!

 

[pjean]

Oh, ouch. I''m sorry this is so stressful and not exciting.

In some ways I''m probably a bad person to speak up on this because, like NEL, my bf and I broke up and *then* he became ready to propose. But I didn''t break up with him - he broke up with me. He was facing a move to the West too, and didn''t want to go back to being long distance (which we''d done for several years). He liked the status quo but, and I pretty much quote, didn''t love me the right way ever to marry me. (Hint to the men in the audience: never say that to your girlfriend.)

It turns out that he had this completely wacked idea of marriage based on his childhood experience of his parents. Long story short, the problem wasn''t with our relationship, it was with his mental picture of marriage. But it took a long time to undo the damage from that period. (We did, though. We''re waiting for a ring to be made, and it was his idea. I love happy endings...

)

Do you know how your bf pictures marriage? How you picture it? Do you ever have fun talking about it? What was his parents'' marriage like? Yours? It''s possible that having a conversation about those things (that specifically *isn''t* about getting engaged) might uncover the sort of problem I had.

 

[Independent Gal]

oh, gee whiz. I totally can imagine how that would feel (though in my case, FI was all "can''t we get engaged and married and have kids, like, next week?" when we''d been dating for about two months).

I also would want to be sure.

My suggestion would be, pre-marital counseling. They have this for couples who are deciding whether to get engaged, as well as for couples who are already engaged, so there is nothing strange about it. It is designed to help you figure out whether you would be happy together.

If his doubts don''t come out there, there ain''t no doubts. Know what I mean?

 

[CNOS128]

First of all -- good for you for sticking to your guns and not moving to the west coast (are you in Brooklyn? why would you ever want to leave?!)

Second -- I have a bunch of guy friends who, upon feeling pressured to propose, broke up with their girlfriends. I think it''s a good sign that he''s gotten a ring (it''s a major purchase, and most men I know don''t make purchases of this variety without careful thought and without wanting to do so). Not knowing your boyfriend, I can''t say for sure, but I''d hope that he wouldn''t buy you a ring just to appease you.

That said, it sounds like he might be a little apprehensive. That doesn''t necessarily mean he doesn''t want to be married to you. The only way to know for sure is to ask him!

Sometimes when I feel like I''ve pushed too far I just check in with my boyfriend. I feel like we respect each other enough to be honest about such things, and, like you, I don''t want it to be that I''m pushing him into marriage (where he might resent me later in life...?) He''s also been really good (?) about telling me when I''m pushing too much and need to back off. So -- conversation, I guess.

Would he be willing to talk to you, not about marriage/engagement, but about his thoughts on your feeling that you may be pushing? (This might not get you married sooner, but at least you''d know...)




Good Luck!!
BigT

 

[KateMB]

I often find myself wondering if it is supposed to be this hard? Should I have to pressure him and should he possibly seek counseling over this? It seems like it should be easy, he should realize that he loves me and that he wants to spend the rest of his life with me. He should buy a ring and propose to me without me having to pressure and cry and yell and be constantly upset about it.

 

[pjean]

Oh, honey, yes it''s hard. {{hugs}} I think some people bypass the hard stuff at the beginning, but it''s still there waiting for them. I don''t know about you, but I''d rather deal with it now than when we''ve been married for 10 years and I''m trying to protect children as well as myself.

 

[bee*]

I can understand how you''re feeling. D and I were going out over 8 years when we got engaged. When we first started talking about engagement he wasn''t ready. I gave him the time and a year and a half later, when we were going to NY to buy our ring, we had a few chats beforehand. He never really brought it up so I was worried that he still wasn''t ready so I asked him and thankfully he was ready, but he said that he was just nervous buying the ring as he wanted to get one that we bought adored. Once we picked our ring, he was fully into planning the proposal and he was so excited when we got engaged. I think that it can be a common fear among LIW though as we do tend to bring the engagement up with our bf''s quite a bit and I had the exact same worry myself. Seeing D plan the proposal though put my mind at rest. I would sit down and ask him again is he definitely ready and if he is, how come he hasn''t planned anything. I hope that he has a lovely surprise planned for you!

 

[brooklyngirl]

Thanks to all the ladies for your kind words and advice!

NewEnglandLady - I have asked him on several occasions whether he is really ready, if he feels that he's doing this due to pressure and he keeps saying, that this is what he wants, and this is what he has decided. I was planning to leave around this time if nothing moved forward, but it did, so right now I have no plans of leaving. He wasn't/isn't aware of my exact plans to leave, but I did let him know that if nothing changed that I would have no choice but to leave. I don't know if it was wise to tell him I would leave or not, but I am the type of person who can't keep anything in (especially something like this), and if I have a problem someone (usuallyl D) will hear about it. I'm not sure how to ask him this (again) in a way where he feels comfortable telling me exactly how he feels. I will have this conversation at home today, and try to do it in a calm manner so that he feels comfortable telling me whatever is on his mind. I am pretty sure he would not want to go to pre-marital counseling, so I don't know about that one. Oh, and it doens't have anything to do with the $ for the ring, as that's already been purchased, even though it was a lot of $.

jdinsf - We have discussed wedding plans, and while he does talk about it, when I bring it up, he has never brought it up, and sometimes seems reluctant to discuss it. He has mentioned that he would like a destination wedding, while I am not sure that would work for us because we want to invite all of our families (which totals about 80 people), and I doubt our grandmothers can take flying at their age. It seems like with him, his mood changes regarding this conversation. When we were on the plane to vegas we talked about the wedding, and our move to the west coast the whole plane ride, and he seemed very excited about the whole thing. We have talked about dates, and he seemed to be pretty reluctant about October 08, and was wondering why we couldn't have the wedding in March 09. At this point I don't care whether it's March of October (I prefer fall weddings) but I don't want to get engaged, and then have to wait 2 years to get married. I don't need an engagement just to be engaged, I need one to get married, if that makes sense.

pjean - Before we started talking about ring shopping, I was trying to get to the bottom of his reluctance to marry. I asked him how he picture marriage, and he said he doesn't really know

. I then told him how I pictured it, which was no different than what we were doing presently, but with less friction coming from my frustrations. He said he thought it would be different, but wasn't sure how, exactly

. His parents' marriage seems fine to me. They argue here and there, but seem pretty happy in general. My parents, on the other hand, while still married, might as well be divorced

, and I'm not sure if their marriage scares him. I do know his sister was in a similar position, and lived with her now husband for 3 years before they got married. There was no proposal/ring -- she just told him they're getting married on day x and if he's not there he can move out (ultimatum). I have thought about this quite a bit, and I can't come up with anything in his experience that would cause him to fear marriage.

TheBigT - That's a great idea! I can definitely be very pushy, to my own detriment

. According to my best friend, he doens't care about marriage, but wants to be with me for the rest of his life. She says he reacts the way he does because he wants to surprise me and doesn't like it when I ask about his plans. Re moving out of Brooklyn, I grew up here and I love it, but I think moving (pending everything is peachy re marriage) is a good thing for us. It's a great opportunity and I would not want him to miss out. We do plan to move back here in a few years, once it's time for kids.

KateMB - I've come to realize that this stuff is hard, for most people. Thanks to this forum I have found some comfort, and great advice on how to deal.

pjean - I've all for dealing with it now. I cannot fathom marrying him or becoming engaged to him unless I am sure this is what he wants. Marriage is hard, and a happy on takes a lot of work -- I definitely can't do it all by myself.

bee* - I suppose this is why I am so interested in whether he has a plan or not. Maybe I am oversensitive to things, but I just expected someone who decided they want to get married be more excited than he is, and any inkling of nervousness on his part translates to his not being ready to me. I will definitely have that talk with him tonight. I suppose it's up to him to convince me that he is ready, and sincere in his desire to commit to me.

Thanks everyone!

 

[brooklyngirl]

*UPDATE*

Sorry, haven''t had too much time for PS lately

, but just wanted to give a quick update. So we talked for two days after I posted. The first conversation did not go over too well. He seemed to dwell on the fact that I didn''t tell him this earlier (i.e. the day before, when he could tell that I was a bit down). I was very unemotional and to the point (it was absolutely fantastic -- no tears, and a lot less stress!), and he decided to lighten up the mood by saying something along the lines of "why are you so into planning the wedding, when you don''t like to plan anything else?". This was (according to him) meant to be a sarcastic joke

. I, clearly did not take it as such, at which point I stopped the conversation and went to bed. Before the conversation killer, I did manage to tell him that I wasn''t completely convinced that he is ready, based on his behavior, and that I only want this if he does. I let him know in no uncertain terms that if he had any doubt I, that I needed to know. To this he replied he''s ready, and that while no one can ever be 100% sure, he believes he is ready. I proceeded to test this by talking about a timeline for the wedding (I would like to get married in October, and he thinks that 6 months is not enough time to plan a wedding, meanwhile, he has never planned a wedding, and I have experience with my sister''s wedding, and that of a friend of ours.)... and that''s when things went south, with his trying to "lighten the mood"

.

The next day I came home and we ended up resolving the issue over the course of the evening. He told me that he is excited about the engagement and the wedding, and that he didn''t like me always asking about the ring and if it arrived yet -- and that''s why he sometimes gets frustrated with me. He also mentioned that he was looking at different colored diamonds that day (I am hoping this doesn''t mean something is wrong with my precious

), and is very much interested in the ring, engagement, etc (otherwise he wouldn''t care to shop with me, and would just tell me to pick something out, and he would buy it). He apologized for his comment, and said that he was trying to lighten the mood, and said something stupid, and realized that it was hurtful to me. Re wedding timeline, he said that he has no problem with getting married in October, if once we started planning it was doable, and the date wasn''t cutting it so close as to cause undue stress (which I agree with -- heck, at this point, I really don''t care what time of the year it is, as long as it''s sooner than later). Then the last thing he said that convinced me was that sometimes he hears a song on the radio and adds it to his mental "wedding playlist" thinking it would be great to play that song at our wedding

.

So, all in all he does seem excited the next stage of our relationship. I made sure to let him know that his happiness was all I wanted. This is supposed to be one of the most exciting periods in our lives, and I want us remember it fondly, and be excited. I wanted to know that he was thinking about these things, and looking forward to them, and from our last conversation, it appears that he is, so I''m happy

.

Btw, he did mention that he *might* be planning something or thinking about planning something, and did not want me to think of an Oct. 08 wedding because he thinks 6 months is not enough time, and didn''t want to be rushed in his plans.

Once again ladies, than you all for your input!

 

[sunnyd]

That''s great! I''m glad you guys got everything out in the open.

If you really want an October wedding, sooner than later, but his plan may be later than sooner, would you both be opposed to planning now instead of waiting until it was "official"? Especially if you have stuff in mind already. In any event, congrats!

 

[brooklyngirl]

Neither of us really want to start planning before we are officially engaged. Personally, I don''t think it will be as much fun, and would be sort of awkward. But hopefully I''ll get to start planning soon!

 

[bee*]

that''s great news that you spoke to him about it. If it won''t be oct 08 there''s always Oct 09. I am having a long engagement also and it''s been great fun and very relaxing having plenty of time to plan things.

 

[lucy.lucy.80]

from reading your initial post, it sounds like he ordered the ring. I wouldn''t bring it up anymore and just let him do it when he''s ready. He may just be waiting for the right time and/or he may be planning something...my FI was trying to get train the dog to hold the ring box in his mouth (after 3 weeks he gave up...haha)

And I really give you a lot of credit for not moving the west coast without a ring on your finger.

Hang in there ( i know its tough) but in the end it will be worth it!!!