Large Asscher tsavorite or mint garnet

[Rfisher]

I understand the heart wants what the heart wants -
How wearable is something this large and not that durable? If it’s something you’ll want to wear often or at all - I understand collecting.

It will be interesting to hear what JW comes back to you with on rough - but also if maybe there’s a currently cut deep oval (or whatever shape) in a similar mint garnet material that’s large enough to get an asscher you’d like out of? That’s still require a deposit up front for him to search and probably a gamble you’ll be taking in the outcome.

However buying the ring as is /making an offer on it - there’s something to be said for ‘overpaying’ for exactly what the singular easily available ‘the one’ that caught your heart. You wouldn’t be alone in that category.

 

[Jopdrop]

Thank you.

However, I would like to clarity what you meant with regard to your comment please, as in which Tsavorite in whose cover photo.

This is Jeff's FB Page cover photo that I was referring to, and I believe the stone on the left is the 5.14ct Mint Garnet in the ring currently consigned with JbG.



DK

I believe that stone was actually cut before the 5.14ct and was around 4.3ct. If my memory is correct there were actually two large asschers cut from this parcel.

 

[Jopdrop]

Ah, I see. LA Pricescopers, you have an errand! Go check out this ring in person for Jopdrop and report back whether it looks like the videos to your eyes.

Actually, @Jopdrop, if it were me, I would be looking for a vanadium chrysoberyl. That would have the liveliness (high refractive index) you're looking for, along with a similar color and much higher hardness/durability. Not that those are cheap or easy to find either.

Yes please!

A vanadium chrysoberyl is also one that I have been hunting for. I’ve not yet come across one that is large enough, cut well or in a shape that I like, and has good colour.

I understand the heart wants what the heart wants -
How wearable is something this large and not that durable? If it’s something you’ll want to wear often or at all - I understand collecting.

It will be interesting to hear what JW comes back to you with on rough - but also if maybe there’s a currently cut deep oval (or whatever shape) in a similar mint garnet material that’s large enough to get an asscher you’d like out of? That’s still require a deposit up front for him to search and probably a gamble you’ll be taking in the outcome.

However buying the ring as is /making an offer on it - there’s something to be said for ‘overpaying’ for exactly what the singular easily available ‘the one’ that caught your heart. You wouldn’t be alone in that category.

I’ve reached out to a few of my contacts from when I was in the trade and the few options they have found for me that are larger are close to or more than the cost of this whole piece. I am starting to think that I do just need to buy this one and it may not actually be that expensive for what it is.

 

[LilAlex]

I’ve reached out to a few of my contacts from when I was in the trade and the few options they have found for me that are larger are close to or more than the cost of this whole piece. I am starting to think that I do just need to buy this one and it may not actually be that expensive for what it is.

This is pretty much what happened to GameStop. And Bitcoin...

Garnet is just not that practical of a gem -- especially for a ring -- and I do not see this price trajectory being sustained. Of course it could take years to reverse and you may not be that patient.

 

[lovedogs]

There is no world in which I would pay 22k for that ring. I think the rarity in terms of size, plus the setting, makes it more $$ than I would *personally* be comfortable with. But everyone is different, and your preferences and comfort level may vary

 

[dk168]

I believe that stone was actually cut before the 5.14ct and was around 4.3ct. If my memory is correct there were actually two large asschers cut from this parcel.

Got you now! I'll ask him for clarification.

DK

 

[Jopdrop]

Got you now! I'll ask him for clarification.

DK

I just took another look and he first posted that photo to Facebook in 2013. It wasn’t until 2014 that Endless Summer commissioned the 5.14ct stone.

Jeff White Asscher Mint Garnet Goodness!

Hey Guys! My Jeff White project took a bit of a turn from a sapphire to a mint garnet - I put down the deposit last night, so it's definitely a go, and I'm couldn't be more thrilled! The sapphire likely was not going to cut a finished stone that was quite as large as I was hoping for, so I...

www.pricescope.com

 

[dk168]

I just took another look and he first posted that photo to Facebook in 2013. It wasn’t until 2014 that Endless Summer commissioned the 5.14ct stone.

Jeff White Asscher Mint Garnet Goodness!

Hey Guys! My Jeff White project took a bit of a turn from a sapphire to a mint garnet - I put down the deposit last night, so it's definitely a go, and I'm couldn't be more thrilled! The sapphire likely was not going to cut a finished stone that was quite as large as I was hoping for, so I...

www.pricescope.com

Got you now, indeed that particular cover page first appeared in January 2013.

Ah well, I did not trawl back that far, and had messaged him via FB Messenger!

DK

 

[dk168]

Jeff responded and said he could not remember for certain, however, it is definitely one of the larger ones that he had cut!

DK

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I will probably be booed off this thread. I also went to take a look at this ring. It is lovely. However. my comments are as follows. I can see through the stone to the ring frame below. That tells me the saturation is on the light side. The cut is beautiful as the cutter is excellent. Now comes my real pet peeve.
In a colored stone saturation is very important. Somewhere along the line someone decided that this was not a light shade of green in a tsavorite garnet but is a pleasing enough color to give it its own special name, Merilani Mint garnet. This is an unsaturated tsavorite garnet. The marketing of this new name brings up the price of the stone, but for me its only a light tsavorite garnet. They are trying to do the same with Demantoid garnet. They call it Mint demantoid and the price goes up. I am finding something similar in Aquamarine.

There is no question the cut and color in the ring are very nice, but 21,000 is too much IMO. Find a light Chrome Tourmaline, have Jeff cut it and voila' beauty and price.
Sleep on it a few days. A 2 ctw asscher cut diamond is beautiful. My favorite cut--Asscher.

Annette

 

[Jopdrop]

Jeff responded and said he could not remember for certain, however, it is definitely one of the larger ones that he had cut!

DK

That was quick! I wonder how much he recalls about the colour of it in different lighting.

 

[dk168]

That was quick! I wonder how much he recalls about the colour of it in different lighting.

I doubt if he would remember much as it was nearly 10y ago that he cut that stone!

Message and ask him.

In his Gem Scoop maildrop in late October 2022, he mentioned he had mint Garnet roughs cut to finished gems in the region of 1 to 4ct, so it is definitely worth asking him if he has anything suitable.

BTW, I take it you have seen Jeff's video of this very same ring back in January 2022 on his FB page.

https://fb.watch/iOc-vuab_Y/

DK

 

[Jopdrop]

I doubt if he would remember much as it was nearly 10y ago that he cut that stone!

Message and ask him.

In his Gem Scoop maildrop in late October 2022, he mentioned he had mint Garnet roughs cut to finished gems in the region of 1 to 4ct, so it is definitely worth asking him if he has anything suitable.

BTW, I take it you have seen Jeff's video of this very same ring back in January 2022 on his FB page.

https://fb.watch/iOc-vuab_Y/

DK

I’ve just sent him a message now, fingers crossed!
I did see that one at the time, I think it was a repost of one of the videos that JBG posted.

 

[toomuchB]

This is not an asscher cut, but an emerald cut - both step cuts so there is some point in comparing. I have no experience buying from this vendor. It might be a useful price point comparison at least. Color looks quite good if the images and video are accurate, not a pallid green like some of these.
Its 4.35ct and about 5,500 euros.

Merelani Mint Garnet - 4,35 ct - GemStore24 | GemStones and Services

The product picture is approximately the same magnification as a view trough the 10x loupe.

www.gemstore-24.com

 

[2Neesers]

Have you thought about what you would be willing and comfortable with paying for the JBG ring? You could always make an offer for that amount and see what happens. The ring has been there for a while and if I remember correctly, the owner was willing to consider offers on pieces she was selling personally.

 

[Mooshi]

Have you asked yourself how you would feel if you woke up tomorrow and it was sold? That question helps me see how I really feel about something.

 

[yssie]

My thoughts. Which may or may not be desirable - if not I apologize in advance -

1. That ring has gone through multiple owners, and has been sitting at JbG for a very long time. And mint greens - they aren’t having the heyday of three years ago, sure, but they’re still popular. That tells me that this piece is 100% overpriced for “what the general market will bear”.

2. Whilst “what the general market will bear” doesn’t necessarily dictate specifics in specific instances, $22k USD for a garnet is just utter insanity. And that insanity explains why it’s been sitting there so long. This ring isn’t art, it isn’t an intricate and irreplaceable design that just happens to feature a garnet - it’s a garnet ring with sidestones. A beautiful garnet, a beautiful ring, beautiful sidestones, but a standard offering nonetheless.

3. I’ve bought my share of things that raise eyebrows. Other posters have said that the heart wants what it wants… And that’s very very true. Been there done that. However, if the heart wants something and the brain knows it’s way overpriced and the gut hasn’t reconciled those divergent interests prior to purchase, it inevitably ends up in my bucket of regrets. The only times it’s okay is when I’m genuinely okay with flat out overpaying for something. Which for me is extremely rare, and let’s be real, for most people is “never”. The fact that you’re even questioning it kind of indicates that this isn’t a mind-clean pricepoint for you for this piece.

4. If you do regret this purchase you’re going to take a bath reselling.

 

[dk168]

@yssie I suspect a 4ct+ Tsavorite Garnet in a good colour and clarity cut by a well-known lapidary artist such as John Dyer would be near or over 22k+ USD. He has an oval one listed, 3.27ct, too dark for my own liking, at nearly 18k USD!

DK

 

[yssie]

@yssie I suspect a 4ct+ Tsavorite Garnet in a good colour and clarity cut by a well-known lapidary artist such as John Dyer would be near or over 22k+ USD. He has an oval one listed, 3.27ct, too dark for my own liking, at nearly 18k USD!

DK

That’s way overpriced too

But yeah. I hear you. For someone who needs THAT stone - it would be worth it. But I think that sort of *need* - that’s not what OP has, or this thread wouldn’t even exist. IMO that’s the only sort of *need* that can justify those asking prices, the heart straight up demanding, unstoppably…

I’ve definitely bought such things!! And some I regret and some I don’t. Doling myself a three-fingered pat on the back

 

[dk168]

That’s way overpriced too

But yeah. I hear you. For someone who needs THAT stone - it would be worth it. But I think that sort of *need* - that’s not what OP has, or this thread wouldn’t even exist. IMO that’s the only sort of *need* that can justify those asking prices, the heart straight up demanding, unstoppably…

Yup, I know what you mean - I don't *need* the monster blue green Tourmaline that Jeff W is cutting for me, however, it sang to me the moment I saw it in his Tucson 2022 goodies photo!

No more CS after that one for a while for me as I really should set some of the stones I already have!

DK

 

[yssie]

Yup, I know what you mean - I don't *need* the monster blue green Tourmaline that Jeff W is cutting for me, however, it sang to me the moment I saw it in his Tucson 2022 goodies photo!

No more CS after that one for a while for me as I really should set some of the stones I already have!

DK

It sounds like it sang to you and you did in fact *need* it

 

[Jopdrop]

Have you thought about what you would be willing and comfortable with paying for the JBG ring? You could always make an offer for that amount and see what happens. The ring has been there for a while and if I remember correctly, the owner was willing to consider offers on pieces she was selling personally.

I have, I have messaged her asking what the stone looks like in most lighting conditions and I have asked if the price is negotiable.

My thoughts. Which may or may not be desirable - if not I apologize in advance -

1. That ring has gone through multiple owners, and has been sitting at JbG for a very long time. And mint greens - they aren’t having the heyday of three years ago, sure, but they’re still popular. That tells me that this piece is 100% overpriced for “what the general market will bear”.

2. Whilst “what the general market will bear” doesn’t necessarily dictate specifics in specific instances, $22k USD for a garnet is just utter insanity. And that insanity explains why it’s been sitting there so long. This ring isn’t art, it isn’t an intricate and irreplaceable design that just happens to feature a garnet - it’s a garnet ring with sidestones. A beautiful garnet, a beautiful ring, beautiful sidestones, but a standard offering nonetheless.

3. I’ve bought my share of things that raise eyebrows. Other posters have said that the heart wants what it wants… And that’s very very true. Been there done that. However, if the heart wants something and the brain knows it’s way overpriced and the gut hasn’t reconciled those divergent interests prior to purchase, it inevitably ends up in my bucket of regrets. The only times it’s okay is when I’m genuinely okay with flat out overpaying for something. Which for me is extremely rare, and let’s be real, for most people is “never”. The fact that you’re even questioning it kind of indicates that this isn’t a mind-clean pricepoint for you for this piece.

4. If you do regret this purchase you’re going to take a bath reselling.

No need to apologise! I posted here because I want to hear this kind of thing.

1. Do you happen to know if any currently active Pricescopers are former owners of this ring? Perhaps they could answer some of my questions.

2. Yes it definitely is a very high price and it does make me wince. What makes it even more difficult is that this is around $34 000 in my currency. My partner has said I can buy it if it will make me happy. Without seeing it in person it is difficult to know.

3. This is something that I really want, almost need. Although it is the garnet, not the ring. If I had the chance I would prefer a loose stone that I can set into something that is exactly my style.

A friend has located a potential option for me. It is smaller than I would prefer, especially considering I do have the budget for a larger stone. This one is 2.68ct and 7.8x7.2mm. The cut is nowhere near as nice as the JW still me however it still looks acceptable to me. The colour is amazing too. The price on this one will be around 5k. I love this stone but I’m not sure it is large enough. At this price point though it may scratch the itch while I wait for the off chance that a larger stone comes up eventually.

 

[dk168]

I have, I have messaged her asking what the stone looks like in most lighting conditions and I have asked if the price is negotiable.



No need to apologise! I posted here because I want to hear this kind of thing.

1. Do you happen to know if any currently active Pricescopers are former owners of this ring? Perhaps they could answer some of my questions.

2. Yes it definitely is a very high price and it does make me wince. What makes it even more difficult is that this is around $34 000 in my currency. My partner has said I can buy it if it will make me happy. Without seeing it in person it is difficult to know.

3. This is something that I really want, almost need. Although it is the garnet, not the ring. If I had the chance I would prefer a loose stone that I can set into something that is exactly my style.

A friend has located a potential option for me. It is smaller than I would prefer, especially considering I do have the budget for a larger stone. This one is 2.68ct and 7.8x7.2mm. The cut is nowhere near as nice as the JW still me however it still looks acceptable to me. The colour is amazing too. The price on this one will be around 5k. I love this stone but I’m not sure it is large enough. At this price point though it may scratch the itch while I wait for the off chance that a larger stone comes up eventually.

If you are open to the custom cut route, then I would definitely advise contacting Jeff or Gary to ask if they have suitable roughs.

My usual way of commissioning a stone is to check Jeff's sold gemstone galleries, find the colour and cutting I like, and ask him if he has anything suitable within a given budget that I have in mind.

So for your case, I would ask if he has anything suitable to cut into an Asscher in similar colour, may be smaller, than the stone in his FB Cover pic, and see what he says.

Not sure if that's what you have done. If you have, then please ignore me.

DK

 

[Rfisher]

Since you’ve seen that one - then you’ve definitely seen the 11k oval I thought for recut potential from same vendor - seemed to have a higher crown /thicker girdle than others. Hard to tell without depth measurement and just how clear the material is and probably wouldn’t make it to 9mm. Color potential in the listing photos is hard to tell as well. Plus the very possible risk of owning expensive broken shards, if the worst would happen.

Best wishes and hope you update us with whatever route you go!

And how much different will this 2.68 one be from what you currently have?

 

[Mreader]

@endless_summer who was the original owner was active in the summer of 22 but her name doesn’t light up when I type; perhaps try to reach her on an LT listing?

 

[qubitasaurus]

To be honest for the price you could get an emerald. That's a common cut for emeralds, and they face up large so a 2.5ct -3 ct will likely be big enough. You'll lose the scintillation from the garnet but you'll make up for it by having the vivid colour and glow.

If you're quite set on a tsav though then you can try reaching out to these guys

AureliaGems - Etsy

Shop Exotic Gemstones from East Africa by AureliaGems located in King of Prussia, Pennsylvania.

www.etsy.com

As they seem to be able to get some of the inventory of Prima gems, and are happy dealing with non trade customers.

You can also try reaching out to Roger Dery to find out what he has in stock

Roger Dery

Roger Dery

rogerderygemdesign.com

Food for thought, people say that darker gems don't get cut as ascher cuts as much as you don't see the light reflecting off the facets or the step cut pattern as well. It might be this is a limiting factor for tsarovites which sometimes lean dark.

You can also try Ivy New York

Tsavorite 3.28 cts

A picture-perfect find from East Africa, this Tsavorite Garnet strikes with intensity and purity of color, as well as its flawlessly symmetrical cut. The play of mint-green and lime-yellow hues over the clear crystal brings a lively finish to the fine Gem. Stone type: Tsavorite GarnetWeight...

yavorskyy.com

To be honest some of these stones look like they have better colour saturation than endless summers consigned ring.

There's a good chance that the ivy new york tsav is a nicer stone -- it's got the medium tone and high saturation, whereas endless summer's consigned tsav looks a little to light. I guess the light tone is what's making the many small step cut facets and high scintilation so distinctive in the consigned stone. Looking at it compared to the ivy new york option though -- I would not pay top dollar for the consigned stone, it does not look trade ideal for a tsav.

I guess you'll see people here say that for a coloured stone, colour is king. Sparkle is nice but the stone is prized for its colour.

 

[Rfisher]

1. Do you happen to know if any currently active Pricescopers are former owners of this ring? Perhaps they could answer some of my questions.

Make yourself a direct contact through LoupeTroop for this.
I’m thinking you’ll more likely get the info you are looking for from the current / previous owners (or even members who have seen it in person) privately vs on this board.

 

[yssie]

Make yourself a direct contact through LoupeTroop for this.
I’m thinking you’ll more likely get the info you are looking for from the current / previous owners (or even members who have seen it in person) privately vs on this board.

^ ++.

 

[Jopdrop]

Make yourself a direct contact through LoupeTroop for this.
I’m thinking you’ll more likely get the info you are looking for from the current / previous owners (or even members who have seen it in person) privately vs on this board.

Great idea! Hopefully I have done this right.

Jopdrop contact | Loupe Troop

loupetroop.com

 

[Jopdrop]

If you are open to the custom cut route, then I would definitely advise contacting Jeff or Gary to ask if they have suitable roughs.

My usual way of commissioning a stone is to check Jeff's sold gemstone galleries, find the colour and cutting I like, and ask him if he has anything suitable within a given budget that I have in mind.

So for your case, I would ask if he has anything suitable to cut into an Asscher in similar colour, may be smaller, than the stone in his FB Cover pic, and see what he says.

Not sure if that's what you have done. If you have, then please ignore me.

DK

Jeff got back to me this morning and said he will check if he has anything suitable currently for a custom cut. I’m hoping he does!

Since you’ve seen that one - then you’ve definitely seen the 11k oval I thought for recut potential from same vendor - seemed to have a higher crown /thicker girdle than others. Hard to tell without depth measurement and just how clear the material is and probably wouldn’t make it to 9mm. Color potential in the listing photos is hard to tell as well. Plus the very possible risk of owning expensive broken shards, if the worst would happen.

Best wishes and hope you update us with whatever route you go!

And how much different will this 2.68 one be from what you currently have?

Do you mean this oval? I did see that too, I worry that it may end up being too pale though if it were recut. I think it may end up smaller than the 2.68 too.
The 2.68 would be very different to any of my other tsavs. Most that I own are under 1ct and none are asschers.

To be honest for the price you could get an emerald. That's a common cut for emeralds, and they face up large so a 2.5ct -3 ct will likely be big enough. You'll lose the scintillation from the garnet but you'll make up for it by having the vivid colour and glow.

If you're quite set on a tsav though then you can try reaching out to these guys

AureliaGems - Etsy

Shop Exotic Gemstones from East Africa by AureliaGems located in King of Prussia, Pennsylvania.

www.etsy.com

As they seem to be able to get some of the inventory of Prima gems, and are happy dealing with non trade customers.

You can also try reaching out to Roger Dery to find out what he has in stock

Roger Dery

Roger Dery

rogerderygemdesign.com

Food for thought, people say that darker gems don't get cut as ascher cuts as much as you don't see the light reflecting off the facets or the step cut pattern as well. It might be this is a limiting factor for tsarovites which sometimes lean dark.

You can also try Ivy New York

Tsavorite 3.28 cts

A picture-perfect find from East Africa, this Tsavorite Garnet strikes with intensity and purity of color, as well as its flawlessly symmetrical cut. The play of mint-green and lime-yellow hues over the clear crystal brings a lively finish to the fine Gem. Stone type: Tsavorite GarnetWeight...

yavorskyy.com

To be honest some of these stones look like they have better colour saturation than endless summers consigned ring.

There's a good chance that the ivy new york tsav is a nicer stone -- it's got the medium tone and high saturation, whereas endless summer's consigned tsav looks a little to light. I guess the light tone is what's making the many small step cut facets and high scintilation so distinctive in the consigned stone. Looking at it compared to the ivy new york option though -- I would not pay top dollar for the consigned stone, it does not look trade ideal for a tsav.

I guess you'll see people here say that for a coloured stone, colour is king. Sparkle is nice but the stone is prized for its colour.

I do love emeralds too but they definitely have a different personality. I prefer tsavorite over emerald for sure. I’ve checked with Roger Derry and didn’t find anything.
There is a 5ct stone at Ivy New York that I have enquired about though. It’s not the Asscher that I was chasing originally but it does have the size.