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Larger OEC search--help needed from the deal gurus!

Friday, it was the gog one--if you have opinions on it. :wink2:

Kim, I totally forgot about the antiquejewelryforsale website--the do have some pretty ones. I cant wait to see what your post in the SMTB thread when you find "the one". :wink2:

Last year I decided to visit several, maybe 12 or so pawnshops in my area. I didn't tell anyone I was going--it was a last minute decision and I just jumped in the car and went. I found myself in totally unsafe neighborhoods --thinking this is really stupid of me and later that night saw on the news one of the customers of one of the pawn shops I had been to was robbed and shot. And none of the pawn shops had anything even remotely close to what I was looking for, and I do mean nothing--lots of gold 1980s point 10 carat diamonds if you know what I mean. I know some cities have pawn shops in nice areas but not so where I live. Just make sure you are being safe, know exactly "where" the pawn shops are and take someone with you. As for me I'd rather pay retail then ever go thru that ordeal again. :nono:
 
MDS,

I went to the pawn shop that's fairly close to me. It's in a fairly decent neighborhood, although there have been a few random crimes in the area, and it's next door to the thrift store. They didn't have any decent jewelry, either. It's all that 80s cheap stuff with the tiny diamonds. Definitely none of the beautiful vintage/antique stuff from the 40s and earlier.

One of my SO's sisters has an antique shop. I'll have to ask her if she knows anyone who handles estate/antique jewelry.

liz
 
Pawn shops obviously vary greatly depending on where you live. In my area, there are two very nice ones that are in the antique's row area of town.

Auction houses are a very different story anyways. Many are in nice areas. Its where dealers get their stuff to begin with.
 
Kim N|1332476273|3154887 said:
Ariel, that's a great idea for testing the performance of several OECs. If I end up choosing one from usacerted, I just might do that. :) I did see that you have to put in "other" to search on their website. Thanks again for your help!

fridays_child, I'm not sure that 11K is in retail range. Looking on OWD's website now, in order to get something with at least 8.5mm spread (which is what I want), I'm seeing prices $14K and up. But I agree with you, on eBay, I'm hoping to spend even less than my budget. There just haven't been any available with 8.5-8.6mm spread.
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Kim,
Those L OEC's are on Polygon, any jeweler can sell them to you. That is why i stated to go thru GOG to call them in and buy one of them through him if they test out well for performance. He has the best equipment to test their performance . They may have some antique stones that are not listed on their site as well that might suit. USAcerted is just another online dealer with some of the lowest prices on the web, but any jeweler can get those stones for you. Then GOG can send the two best to a local appraiser so you can see them for yourself. And don't forget GOG has connections to the cutters that cut the older style diamonds and can possibly get some that have not yet hit the market. I would call them and see what they can do for you if you are ready to buy.

Just another thought to help with your search.
 
Kim - when you see the 14k price, I'm saying you might not necessarily have to pay that price. It doesn't hurt to ask. For my sale, it was significant enough that I am mentioning it to you. Vendor A was willing to give me a 4% bank wire only discount (which amounted to a $500 price break), vendor B's discount was several times that percentage, cash or cc, same discount. If the discount was only $500, I wouldn't have mentioned it - it was much greater than than.

MyDiamondSparkles - it's hard to say what I think is a good price for the Q stone. It has been sitting there for several months, that is saying something. Yes, it makes the 3ct cutoff, but the big strike against it is the Q/R color - that's going to lock many people into to only yellow gold or rose gold settings. I think brightice (?) mentioned it herself, that she thought about resale value in making her decision and how it's much tougher to sell a Q vs. a K or an M.

Did I read somewhere that for bigger carat sizes you need a much larger jump in mm spread to make a significant visual difference? I know it's hard to let go of that 3ct or 4 carat mark, but if you have smaller fingers you might consider something just under three or something closer to my stone's size. It might be worth being open to slightly smaller sizes if you can't find that 3ct+ on ebay. Have you had a chance to try on larger carat sizes at a store? It could be helpful.

Here's 8.8mm on my 4.35/4.5 finger:

20120306-DSC_0705.jpg
 
fridays_child|1332870940|3157432 said:
Kim - when you see the 14k price, I'm saying you might not necessarily have to pay that price. It doesn't hurt to ask. For my sale, it was significant enough that I am mentioning it to you. Vendor A was willing to give me a 4% bank wire only discount (which amounted to a $500 price break), vendor B's discount was several times that percentage, cash or cc, same discount. If the discount was only $500, I wouldn't have mentioned it - it was much greater than that.
Click to expand...

Sorry I just want to clarify for anyone out there looking at old stones through the popular vendors here - I'm not saying you will get a discount 100% of the time, of course. I'm also not saying you'll get a significant discount either, it could be a small one. But it doesn't hurt to ask, and it doesn't hurt to shop around :) I was mentally "locked" into two much-loved vendors at first, probably because they were so loved here. In the end I got a much better value for what I was looking for somewhere else.
 
fridays_child|1332873011|3157449 said:
fridays_child|1332870940|3157432 said:
Kim - when you see the 14k price, I'm saying you might not necessarily have to pay that price. It doesn't hurt to ask. For my sale, it was significant enough that I am mentioning it to you. Vendor A was willing to give me a 4% bank wire only discount (which amounted to a $500 price break), vendor B's discount was several times that percentage, cash or cc, same discount. If the discount was only $500, I wouldn't have mentioned it - it was much greater than that.
Click to expand...

Sorry I just want to clarify for anyone out there looking at old stones through the popular vendors here - I'm not saying you will get a discount 100% of the time, of course. I'm also not saying you'll get a significant discount either, it could be a small one. But it doesn't hurt to ask, and it doesn't hurt to shop around :) I was mentally "locked" into two much-loved vendors at first, probably because they were so loved here. In the end I got a much better value for what I was looking for somewhere else.
Click to expand...

Your stone is awesome! What is the carat weight and color? Thanks for posting that picture.
 
ariel144|1332888739|3157660 said:
fridays_child|1332873011|3157449 said:
fridays_child|1332870940|3157432 said:
Kim - when you see the 14k price, I'm saying you might not necessarily have to pay that price. It doesn't hurt to ask. For my sale, it was significant enough that I am mentioning it to you. Vendor A was willing to give me a 4% bank wire only discount (which amounted to a $500 price break), vendor B's discount was several times that percentage, cash or cc, same discount. If the discount was only $500, I wouldn't have mentioned it - it was much greater than that.
Click to expand...

Sorry I just want to clarify for anyone out there looking at old stones through the popular vendors here - I'm not saying you will get a discount 100% of the time, of course. I'm also not saying you'll get a significant discount either, it could be a small one. But it doesn't hurt to ask, and it doesn't hurt to shop around :) I was mentally "locked" into two much-loved vendors at first, probably because they were so loved here. In the end I got a much better value for what I was looking for somewhere else.
Click to expand...

Your stone is awesome! What is the carat weight and color? Thanks for posting that picture.
Click to expand...

Thanks ariel, it's a 2.64ct K egl.

Kim, sorry for the thread tangent, hope your search is progressing.
 
MDS-

There is a nice 5ct OEC at GOG right now that is price really well. I know you said 3-4ct but this might fit your bill.
 
That's a gorgeous stone and the price seems good for the size, but she said her budget is $11K. She'll have to win the lottery for that one!

Here's the link for anyone who's interested: http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/8140

liz
 
LibbyLA|1332951708|3158233 said:
That's a gorgeous stone and the price seems good for the size, but she said her budget is $11K. She'll have to win the lottery for that one!

Here's the link for anyone who's interested: http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/8140

liz
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:) That is a pretty stone, and incredibly huuuuuge. And at +7mm and 67% depth super deep :)

I think Sarahbear meant the stone for MyDiamondSparkles - she is the one looking for a 3 or 4 carat. Kim the OP is looking for a 2+ for $11k or less.
 
Dreamer, I've been visiting some pawn shops this week (none of which have had any larger old cuts so far) and found out about an upcoming local auction, so we'll see if that results in anything. Thanks again for your help!

MDS, we have some very safe and some not-so-safe areas near where I live, so I'll stay in the safe areas for sure.

Ariel, thanks, I missed the fact that they were virtual stones. If I go down that route, going through GOG is a good idea.

fridays_child, thanks for the info. I will certainly ask then!

LibbyLA, I saw that one on rl and so wish I could afford it. It's gorgeous.
 
LibbyLA|1332970788|3158506 said:
MDS,

You may have said what your budget was and I've just missed it. Here's a 3+ on sale for $25K!

http://www.rubylane.com/item/514555-rl-724/3-28-Carat-Center-European

liz
Click to expand...

Thanks LibbyLA--I also saw that one but it's a UV color.....hmmmmm...I'd love to have a 5 carat though! :)

Kim, Let us know how the auction goes! :)

Friday, thanks for your thoughts on the GOG. Yep, that Q color is a big strike against it.....it is a pretty cut though. :love: I thought we were going to NYC this past weekend but just couldn't squeeze it into the schedule. I'd love to see it in person.
 
MyDiamondSparkles|1332165163|3151961 said:
I know you are in good hands here with the EBay experts helping you find your dream diamond! :)

I've been searching for a 3-4 carat diamond on Ebay and elsewhere and I do know what you mean about being impatient. It's hard to wait for that perfect diamond to come along and pass on others which "may" work and then if I don't jump on them someone else does. Then I wonder if anything that good will come along again....sigh.

In my extensive Internet search I've come across a few 2 carat diamond you might be interested in--I agree with the others that say that sometimes you have to search for an odd word or two to hit on the deals. Why, oh why, doesn't this forum have a PM???? I don't want to post the links to the rings here and have someone else snatch them up before you see them.

Anyway, here's the info on the rings (minus the links)--let me know if you are interested and if someone knows how to get the links to the OP without the lurkers seeing it do let me know. :wink2:

Oops--forgot the one is an old mine cut--but it does look nice and round and not wonky like some of the OMC: 2.03 carat diamond ring K Si $8300. The diamond looks lovely in the photo--I can't see any inclusions, but there is only one photo so you'd need to ask for more and find out if it is EGL and what the exact measurements of the diamond are as they are not listed. Also your gonna need a new setting with this one!

And another: The center diamond measures 8.41 x 8.39 x 4.90mm. I am really bad at math so this might be a shallow diamond? Math experts please chime in as it looks kind of spready in the photos. The photos make it look nice--there's even a magnified photo but it is a bit blurry. The ring is vintage and pretty too--you might not want to reset it.
Actual weight is 2.20 carats.
This is a VERY clean, and VERY, VERY beautiful stone.
Were it not for a single clear inclusion, effectively invisible to the naked eye, it could have easily have been graded VS1. This is an absolutely exquisite ring.
Independent GIA Gemologist Appraiser has graded it SI2, with top white, I-J color and no fluorescence. Priced at $15,500 BUT the states the consignment seller is motivated!

I thought I had a few more--one has a visible inclusion though so I assume you don't want that and I am looking through my bookmarks for another one.
Click to expand...

8.41 x 8.39 x 4.90mm depth would be 58.33% ( 4.90 divided by 8.4 = 58.33) Not too shallow. Does it have a nice crown height? Sounds like a nice ring and stone. Hope this helps.

Ok, so I found a stone I love and was trying to get the crown % (guesstimate!...it looked on the small side) So I took a ruler and measured the diameter of the stone in inches 2.75 (the enlarged photo) and the diameter of the table in inches 1.27 and divided 1.27 by 2.75 to come up with a 46% table figure. LOL, no cert. on this stone but the measurements compare to a GOG antique stone in stock. Not highly accurate but I was really curious. Hows that for ingenuity?? Love the smaller tables.
 
Can't wait to see what you ultimately get as well, MDS!

Ariel, I did that calculation as well to get the depth, but unfortunately, that ring was too expensive and the stone wasn't that great in the end. LOL at the way you calculated the table!
 
Kim N|1333175674|3160499 said:
Can't wait to see what you ultimately get as well, MDS!

Ariel, I did that calculation as well to get the depth, but unfortunately, that ring was too expensive and the stone wasn't that great in the end. LOL at the way you calculated the table!
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Yes, the table %...LOL! If i get the stone it will be interesting to see how close i got.

I have been looking at OEC's and OMC's for a while and finding one the size you are looking for with your budget seems difficult. The closest were the two L's (EGL) on usacerted. that were under your budget. Was your budget $11k for the stone alone or for the stone and the ring?

It seems to me that many of these antique rings are over priced...JMO. They pay about 1/3- 1/4 the retail price for used diamond jewelry. I would probably try and find a vendor that was willing to discount the price for a ring and stone you like. If they paid 8k and you offer them 11k ...that is a pretty good return for them. It doesn't hurt to try.

Rather than visiting pawn shops, I would start calling the dealers that buy used jewelry. They pay ridiculously low prices. One guy i took my ring to had a 5 c cushion cut I vvs that the woman paid $200k for and they were selling the stone for 65k. Well, $200k for a 5 carat I vvs is way over priced but that is what he told me. There is a 5c I/IF on USAcert. and it is $98,600. Couldn't believe someone was that stupid. Oh well, guess she had the money. They probably gave her $45,000 for it. Just guessing.
 
I do know that the size and budget make this search particularly difficult, but I'm willing to wait until a deal comes around. My budget is for the stone alone. The EGL L stones have potential, but if possible I'd like to stick with a true L by GIA standards (even if it's uncerted--I recently saw a GIA M and thought that was a bit too tinted for me), but I still have those EGL Ls in mind. On the few stones I've inquired about so far, I've asked about negotiating, but the vendors have not discounted the price enough to fit my budget. Certainly doesn't hurt to continue trying, though. I'll look into the dealers and see what that yields. Thanks, ariel!
 
Kim N|1333417137|3162123 said:
I do know that the size and budget make this search particularly difficult, but I'm willing to wait until a deal comes around. My budget is for the stone alone. The EGL L stones have potential, but if possible I'd like to stick with a true L by GIA standards (even if it's uncerted--I recently saw a GIA M and thought that was a bit too tinted for me), but I still have those EGL Ls in mind. On the few stones I've inquired about so far, I've asked about negotiating, but the vendors have not discounted the price enough to fit my budget. Certainly doesn't hurt to continue trying, though. I'll look into the dealers and see what that yields. Thanks, ariel!
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As I am sure you know, GIA reports for old cuts are very rare. If you want a GIA L equivalent then you likely need to stick to K at the lowest in EGL reports. BUT that said, old cuts are each unique in terms of how the face up, so don't narrow yourself too much. I fear you will literally search forever if you place any restictions on yourself beyond those you must place: budget, size, well cut. Thos alone are going to make it hard!
 
Dreamer, the color thing is not a hard requirement at all, and I know actual GIA reports are rare. I also know old cuts can face up beautifully white compared to RBs of the same color. Budget, size, and cut are still my main restrictions. :)
 
Well, I'm not looking for a rock anywhere near the size of you ladies--
Trying for an OEC around 6.5--lol 7 would be a DREAM.

I'm just wanting to say thanks for the time you all put in helping each other on this thread--just reading is giving me hints & tips too!
 
catia|1333439305|3162300 said:
Well, I'm not looking for a rock anywhere near the size of you ladies--
Trying for an OEC around 6.5--lol 7 would be a DREAM.

I'm just wanting to say thanks for the time you all put in helping each other on this thread--just reading is giving me hints & tips too!
Click to expand...

Have you seen Dreamer's on Pre Loved forum! :love:
 
Its an early modern round brilliant. It might be cut OK but it will not compare to your ideal RBs, and I wager it won't compare well to a well cut OEC or even true "transitional".

To be blunt, you wil not find anything for a deal from a dedicated jewelery seller. Look for private sellers. Look for small antique sellers that happen to have one diamond. Really, the jewelers know market values and price things as such :))
 
armywife and Dreamer, thanks for the info. I was asking just to learn more about the different older cuts, not because I was planning on buying anything from that seller. :)) I've been searching for private sellers and non-jewelry antique sellers, though no deals have come up yet. I'll be checking out my first local auction in a few weeks, but just found out that they have a buyers' premium of 22.5%, which sounds really high!
 
Kim N|1333857964|3166015 said:
armywife and Dreamer, thanks for the info. I was asking just to learn more about the different older cuts, not because I was planning on buying anything from that seller. :)) I've been searching for private sellers and non-jewelry antique sellers, though no deals have come up yet. I'll be checking out my first local auction in a few weeks, but just found out that they have a buyers' premium of 22.5%, which sounds really high!
Click to expand...

That is about standard at auctions. All you need to do is subtact 20% from your planned top bid :))

As you know I am ebay obsessed and have no seen anything over 2ct worth looking at in your price range. Sorry :blackeye: I actually have a friend looking for a similar diamond so I have been purposely looking too. I think the pickle for you is three fold: Old cuts are rare, large old cuts more rare because many were recut over the years, and dealers seem to get them first because even lay people know a big diamond is worth a lot! I think this could be a year long process/hunt for you, or something could pop up! You never know.

If you can stretch to $15k I do have a contender for you though?
 
Haha, it worries me that you're searching for a similar diamond--you're much more ebay-savvy than I am, and if one comes up, you'll surely find it before I do! :tongue:

I can't stretch that far, maybe just a little bit, but there's a chance the seller might come down, right? I'd love to see the contender in case it works out.
 
Kim N|1333915989|3166296 said:
Haha, it worries me that you're searching for a similar diamond--you're much more ebay-savvy than I am, and if one comes up, you'll surely find it before I do! :tongue:

I can't stretch that far, maybe just a little bit, but there's a chance the seller might come down, right? I'd love to see the contender in case it works out.
Click to expand...

No, that was already them stretching ::)
 
Kim, if you got the auction route, just be sure to stick to your budget! It's so easy to get caught up in the bidding and overspend by a lot! :errrr: Set the budget and don't move past it.... Plus, the thing I don't like about auctions is that you really have no chance to get an independent appraisal of the diamond to know what it is you are really buying and of course there are no returns. I suppose if the diamond sells way below what market price, it could be a great deal...but it's hard to know what a deal would be on a diamond that has something other than a GIA report. You know? And most have no appraisals at all. Anyway, Make sure you have a loupe and you know how to use it--and color is going to be a guess...

I did see a 2 carat in a beautiful original mounting. It's over your budget, but if you like the original vintage mounting then maybe it would be in your price range? It's 17k if I recall, but the diamond was "only" 8.08 mm and for some reason I was thinking you were looking in the mid 8.00's or am I wrong on that? It's got a bezel-ish kind of setting so it makes it look larger. I recently looked at the difference between a 3.5 and a 4.38 (or was it 4.28?) carat diamond and really there is only a smidge difference in face up size. Have you tried on diamond rings in the 2.00-2.75 carat range to see what the difference in spread really is?
 
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