Last Name Change

[Selkie]

Date: 1/15/2008 5:58:05 PM
Author: swimmer
Dear Brazen,

Stupid people are such a drag and its awful, but we all waste brainspace on them + their giggly friends.


So your timing in posting was perfect for me. My fiance and I are torn by other peoples'' reactions to our thinking we would combine our last names into a non-hyphenated new name. Details changed, but we were thinking we will be Mr. and Mrs. Zimmerglick. This has created mass hysteria in our families, friends, etc. Both names are short, it will make sense in German, (which is weird since we are both Israeli), and now we are totally doubting our decision. My mom in particular (a total liberal) is freaking and says that we can''t do something so insane; we could never move away from Cambridge, MA.


I don''t think that the rest of the country would be that horrified by our making a new name...would they even know? What is difficult about changing a name and how did you decide (hm, this is sort of a threadjack, but might be useful to Ms. Hussy) I thought that hyphens were difficult, people don''t really know where you go alphabetically... Also, I do want to share a name with my sweetie, and I hope to finish my phd soon, so should either change or stick. Looking forward to hearing more from y''all about what you did with your names. Here is an interesting article about name changing from the NYTimes.

Swimmer, LA''s mayor Antonio Villaraigosa was born Antonio Villar, and when he got married, appended his wife''s last name (Raigosa), so this is definitely not an out-of-the-blue idea. (Of course, I''m not sure what he''ll do if they get divorced because of his affair!) I think it''s a great solution.

I toyed with the idea of trying to combine names myself, but couldn''t figure out how to combine my very German last name with his very Spanish and hyphenated last name without it sounding ridiculous (Schanandez? I don''t think so!) He had no problem with me keeping my name either, since it''s pretty common that Latina women don''t change theirs. I actually really love his mother''s maiden name (also the second half of his hyphenated name) and would seriously consider changing my name to it in the unlikely event we have kids. It''s nice to have options, I guess.

It''s very weird to me that people STILL have that negative reaction to women not changing their names, since I know many women in their 50''s or 60''s who didn''t change theirs, and GASP, had kids and the kids and parents have different names. Maybe it''s because I''m in science, or live in liberal cities? I don''t know. But it seems like old news.

 

[Pandora II]

I''m changing my name to FI''s except for my political work where I will keep my own as it would be madness to change it for that, especially as my name is very unusual - only 14 people in the world have it.

I also have a hyphenated surname (not my parents two names, but a surname that has been there for many generations). I would never inflict one on my children.

I had a terrible time at school being teased about it, everyone assuming I was either very wealthy or a complete snob before I''d even met them. Everyone spells it wrong - makes my work email a nightmare as you have to have your full name and half the time I don''t get emails as there is a letter missing or wrong. It doesn''t fit on forms and you have to spell it out all the time. Aaaaaaahhhhhh!

FI''s is nice and short and it will be such a relief!

I can see your point about feminism Indy, my FMIL thinks that FSIL and I are mad for being happy to use Mrs FI''sfirstname FI''slastname.

I''m possibly influenced by my job, where I have to use Correct Form a great deal. I just stick with the rules - all married women are Mrs HisFirst HisLast - when there are 300 people on a guestlist, there is no chance of guessing who likes what. I''m happy to make people in that positions life easier!

 

[Octavia]

Pandora, it's funny you mention the guestlist thing. My former job was in fundraising, so we mailed a lot of stuff and did a lot of events and it's truly impossible to keep up with what people like and dislike. However, my work there was what made me almost certain that I would keep my own name. Being addressed as "Octavia HisLast" bothers me just a bit, but the thought of being called "Mrs. HisFirst HisLast" rankles me to no end. Mostly women worked in my office and we were pretty evenly split on the question of name-takers and name-keepers, with virtually nobody in between. I just find it interesting how working in a field like that can provoke such strong feelings in both directions.

 

[Neveah]

That''s interesting as I had the same rude comments.... though for the exact opposite reason! It came up at the office that I was going to take future husband''s last name.... "what self respecting, intelligent, business woman would change her name for her husband? What is this 1950?" "You know, you really should consider at least hyphenating." WTF?
I just don''t understand why these people care? Or why they feel the need to give me their opinions! They should probably just say it behind my back. OH. Geesh, if they had the balls to say that to my face, I can''t IMAGINE what they''re saying about me behind my back?
I can''t WAIT to change my nameplate on my desk. Maybe for the next 4 months until the wedding I should get one that reads THE FUTURE MRS. HUBBYSLASTNAME

 

[Rhea]

Date: 1/16/2008 7:21:24 PM
Author: Pandora II

I also have a hyphenated surname (not my parents two names, but a surname that has been there for many generations). I would never inflict one on my children.

Pandora, do you mind explaining why you''d never ''inflict'' a double barrelled name on your children?

Not that we plan on having children but DH has a double barrelled name and I didn''t change my name. If we ever have children I''d most certainly pass my name onto them and DH wants one of his names there as well. My last name was complex for both my American bringing up and my now English place of work, but it''s never been bad. DH has two *very* common last names (think Smith-Jones).

When asked DH doesn''t recall any issues in school or uni. But I''m also being taught by my British co-workers the difference between growing up in different areas of Britain. So while this is a weird question (and likely a classist question), I ask with all serious. Was he likely not teased and doesn''t see his double barrelled name as a big deal in part because he went to public school? He doesn''t know because he doesn''t have any experience outside of the world he grew up.

 

[Delster]

Date: 1/15/2008 7:16:57 PM
Author: Independent Gal
For some people (like me) feminism = a belief that women are equal in dignity and worth to men, and should be afforded the same choices and opportunities as men. Gender should only interfere to make a difference where it''s really rational and insurmountable for it to do so. Of course, the world is such that it doesn''t always work out that way.

So now think about this carefully. It''s traditional, but is it fair?

Mimzy loves her last name. Mimzy wants to have the same name as her husband.
Mimzy''s FI loves his last name. FI wants his family to have the same last name as him.

But only Mimzy has to make a choice between these two things that are important to her while her FI can (and expects to) have it both ways. It is not even up for discussion whether Mimzy could get to have it both ways. Why? Because he has extruding organs? Huh? Which has WHAT to do with the family name? So he gets to keep his name and Mimzy has to change hers if she wants family unity?

Thank god we have choices, but still.

Guess I''m just an angry feminist.

Ignore me.

I guess what I''m trying to say is, while I totally get and understand wanting a family to all have the same last name, I wish it were more common for men to at least consider taking our names. But that option only rarely seems to be even entertained. Of course not everyone will be able to get their way, just like with other marital decisions. It just seems like this one is so often moot from the get-go.

This is why I love our approach to this. I can be both Delster MyLastName and Delster HisLastName and both are legally recognised. Not one ''official'' name and one ''social'' name. Two official names.

Sadly, though, the same judgemental behaviour about name changing goes on over here. Most people don''t realise about the two names option. My personal opinion would be the same as Indy''s - that everyone, male or female, should get the choice - and I would never ever judge someone who opted to exercise it in a different way to how I would exercise it.

I''m sorry so many of you have been treated badly over your choices! It''s not on!

 

[enbcfsobe]

Delster, I''m jealous that names work that way for you. That would make it much simpler.
At the same time, I think my FSIL had a good idea -- she changed her name legally but not professionally. That way she doesn''t worry about name recognition on 2 fronts -- there won''t be any confusion professionally and it would also be very difficult for her clients (she is a psychologist) to find her in her personal life. I kindof like the idea having that level of anonymity and separation from my personal life. I have to admit that FI and I have toyed with the idea of taking an entirely new name, since our 2 names don''t fit together all that well. His nickname is Ned, so our top choice was to both take Flanders, but I think we might tire of that joke after a while. FI is entirely shocked that I would even consider changing my name -- he has apparently assumed that I wouldn''t do it. One reason I have considered it is that I think both of us would like to share a last name with our children without inflicting hyphenation on them.

 

[ladypirate]

Date: 1/17/2008 10:27:34 AM
Author: enbcfsobe
At the same time, I think my FSIL had a good idea -- she changed her name legally but not professionally.

When my bf and I first started discussing marriage, I brought that up as a possible solution, only to find out that he was totally against it! He said that it would feel like I was being dishonest (don't ask me--I don't understand the sentiment at all) and he'd rather I just keep my name completely. I'm glad I don't have to decide quite yet, but it's something I'm somewhat torn about...I like my last name. It's very Irish, and since I identify with that heritage quite a bit, the idea of going to his (very Italian) last name is a bit difficult.

Part of me just wants to tack his on to the end of my name or switch my last name in for my middle name and add his, but it still doesn't solve the problem of feeling a bit like I'm losing that connection to my ancestors. Maybe I should have just found a nice Irish boy.

Although, then I wouldn't have access to all the Italian family recipes. Yum!

 

[enbcfsobe]

LP, I''m still quite torn also. I guess I just don''t see the legal vs. professional as being dishonest -- people use stage names all the time for their professional life.
I am hesitant to give up my name for slightly different cultural reasons that make it even more complicated. FI has an English last name. I have a German last name, and, other than my sister, there isn''t anyone related to us with the same name because there were so many girls in the family who took their husbands names. So part of me wants to carry on our name. What''s weirder is that it isn''t actually our family name -- one of the great grandparents bought a German passport to get out of Poland/Russia to escape religious persecution. That partly makes me feel like it is a sham anyway, but at the same time it makes it that much more important to not give up my name completely. Ugh. So confusing. I''m glad I have a while to figure it out.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 1/17/2008 9:08:32 AM
Author: Addy

Pandora, do you mind explaining why you'd never 'inflict' a double barrelled name on your children?

Not that we plan on having children but DH has a double barrelled name and I didn't change my name. If we ever have children I'd most certainly pass my name onto them and DH wants one of his names there as well. My last name was complex for both my American bringing up and my now English place of work, but it's never been bad. DH has two *very* common last names (think Smith-Jones).

When asked DH doesn't recall any issues in school or uni. But I'm also being taught by my British co-workers the difference between growing up in different areas of Britain. So while this is a weird question (and likely a classist question), I ask with all serious. Was he likely not teased and doesn't see his double barrelled name as a big deal in part because he went to public school? He doesn't know because he doesn't have any experience outside of the world he grew up.

Not at all Addy,

In the UK it is quite uncommon to have a double-barrelled surname (although it is becoming more usual now with so many unmarried or divorced parents.)

I have a very pronounced 'Oxford English' accent as well as a hyphenated surname.

If I had gone to a public school it would have made my life much easier, for example, I had no problems at all at my private prep-school.

With 4 kids, my parents couldn't afford the fees for public school for the first three of us (I'm the eldest). Instead I went to a state grammar school.

My accent hugely stood out, and combining that with a double-barrelled surname, I had a lot of problems. Children can be very unkind, especially if they feel threatened in someway.

People I know from school have admitted to me that they felt threatened by my accent and name, and assumed I was stuck-up and very rich - and wanted to teach me a lesson. In fact I was not at all well off in anyway and more shy and socially awkward than anything.

Nowadays, I am confident enough to speak the way I do and not try and hide it, and my reasons for wanting a shorter name are more practical than anything.


If you are in the UK, I would think very carefully, unless you are thinking of public school for your kids. My youngest sister went to a public school and had no problems at all.

Class is still a VERY big thing in the UK no matter what anyone says. It's probably different in other countries (although in Italy, everyone assumed I was a member of the aristocracy because everyone with a double surname there is. Must dust off that tiara

)

 

[Sha]

I haven''t decided what to do about my name yet. A lot of people know me by my old name - especially professionally -so I''m reluctant to change it completely. It feels like I would be taking on a completely different identitiy, and that people wouldn''t know who I am anymore. I don''t want people to be like, "Who..?" when they see my name. So I''ve mostly been using my old name with persons who knew me before, and sometimes hyphenating. With new persons, I tend to use my husbands last name. I haevn''t changed anything legally yet.

It''s funny, because I used to say that when I got married again I would take my husband''s last name completely (I think that was because I was working in H.R and was annoyed by not knowing how to file all the hyphenated names - it, but now I am married again, it feels weird to do that.

 

[Delster]

Date: 1/17/2008 10:27:34 AM
Author: enbcfsobe
Delster, I'm jealous that names work that way for you. That would make it much simpler.
At the same time, I think my FSIL had a good idea -- she changed her name legally but not professionally. That way she doesn't worry about name recognition on 2 fronts -- there won't be any confusion professionally and it would also be very difficult for her clients (she is a psychologist) to find her in her personal life.

But what name do her clients make their cheques payable to / does she write cheques to suppliers in / does she keep her bank accounts etc in? I mean, that arrangement would be extremely common in Ireland but I didn't think you could manage it in the States. Doesn't your bank account have to be in your legal name (and cheques made payable to your legal name)?

(Not asking to pry, and not looking for details of your FSIL's financial affairs, just really interested in general. Hope I don't offend.)

 

[enbcfsobe]

I don''t think she''s getting paid directly, and neither do I (I''m an attorney with a firm), so I hadn''t thought about that before. I think there are a number of ways to deal with this if you are in business for yourself. First, you could register a business name (not an expensive process) so that you could get a business account in whatever name you wanted (so if I went out on my own I would call my firm Enbcfsobe Maidenname, Esq., though I could also choose to call it Best PS-Posting Lawyer Ever as long as that didn''t violate copyright/trademark laws or ethical rules). Separate accounts (ie separate from personal) are required for many professions anyway. You may be able to set up a bank account in your own name that accepts checks made out to your "ficticious" name as long as you register that name with the bank, though I haven''t looked into this. There are definitely ways of doing this without it being a problem. I know a number of people who have done this, and they have no problem getting paid by clients or their employers -- I just don''t know all the specifics. I''m sure not every star legally changes their name to their stage name, yet they certainly manage to get paid!

 

[Delster]

Ah, of course! D''oh!

Would still mean life would be difficult if you wanted to keep your own name for business but take your DH''s name legally and you weren''t in a position to set up a separate legal entity for your business affairs though...

Date: 1/17/2008 4:05:24 PM
Author: enbcfsobe
I don''t think she''s getting paid directly, and neither do I (I''m an attorney with a firm), so I hadn''t thought about that before. I think there are a number of ways to deal with this if you are in business for yourself. First, you could register a business name (not an expensive process) so that you could get a business account in whatever name you wanted (so if I went out on my own I would call my firm Enbcfsobe Maidenname, Esq., though I could also choose to call it Best PS-Posting Lawyer Ever as long as that didn''t violate copyright/trademark laws or ethical rules). Separate accounts (ie separate from personal) are required for many professions anyway. You may be able to set up a bank account in your own name that accepts checks made out to your ''ficticious'' name as long as you register that name with the bank, though I haven''t looked into this. There are definitely ways of doing this without it being a problem. I know a number of people who have done this, and they have no problem getting paid by clients or their employers -- I just don''t know all the specifics. I''m sure not every star legally changes their name to their stage name, yet they certainly manage to get paid!

Brilliant idea!!!

 

[Gwyn]

I suppose I am a little on the fence about the whole name thing. Personally, i dont really care either way about my name. It could be different tomorrow and other then the hassle of having to change it with credit cards and accounts and such i wouldnt be bothered. Then again I am on the young side so i have not built a career with this name that people in my profession really know me by, so that probably makes it easier.

However, my grandfather reccently died (i have his last name as my mother was not married and we lived with him for many years) and I would like to keep it for that reason. Additionally my FI''s last name sounds horrible with my first

My sister and I both have a different last name then our mother (she remarried) and it was always such a pain having a different last name then her in school and signing documents and such. So I always knew that i wanted everyone in my immediate family to have the same last name

I am one of the lucky ones i guess. FI has no problem taking my last name. So that is what we plan to do.

I am sure he wont be as thrilled as he is wasting a whole day in court arguing for a name change (unlike if i were to change mine) But its not my fault there is noone lobbying for the men on this topic.

Ill pack him a nice lunch for his afternoon in court

 

[studyer83]

A thought from a feminist who changed her name.

I was given my last name at birth because my mother took my father''s name. Marriage was my first opportunity to make a conscious choice regarding my name. I had my old name only because of my real mother''s lack of choice in changing her name. I love my father, love my previous last name, and kept it as a middle name - but it was fun thinking about having my first real choice regarding my name!!

I went back and forth between keeping and changing, and my husband was fine when I was thinking about keeping. Knowing that he was OK if I kept my previous name made me feel so much better about changing my name. I know that sounds weird!!

 

[ladyciel]

In the past I was always on the fence about the name thing. On one hand I've never really associated my name with the core of my identity, but I also don't appreciate the tradition/rules that force the woman to change w/o the man having to forfeit/choose anything. For those reasons, I always figured it would depend on who I was marrying and what his name was would influence what I would do. My last name isn't ridiculously long compared to some, but it IS rather long for an english name and rather rare in the US. For example - I've attended two very very large state universities, and I've been the only one, student or faculty, at either of them to have my last name. We were the only listing with our name in the phone book in every city we lived in growing up. On one hand, it's fun being that unique. On the other, it's terribly annoying when having to correct everyone's pronunciation and spelling of it. It could also be worse, as a handful of generations back the family decided to drop a hyphenation that made the name even longer. What used to be the first half of the surname is now passed down in my family as a second middle name. I'm Firstname middlename oldhypen lastname. Because in total that makes my name too difficult to use in most forms, the oldhyphen name gets dropped a lot and is really only used on my driver's license. I don't even use it when I file taxes, because it won't fit.

If I were to try and hyphenate to keep my name and add my FI's, I wouldn't know where to begin. Four names is already too much - I can't fathom going to five! I love my middle name and don't want to lose that. I wouldn't want to keep my surname and lose the oldhyphen name, because they're passed together and have an interesting story to go with them.

My FI, on the other hand, has a very Irish last name with two common spelling variations in the US. I'm about half-Irish, and my first and middle names are both Irish. Therefore, if I change my name I will have a nicely-flowing Irish sounding name, and I'm fine with that.

I COULD keep my name, but I don't think I will, for a few reasons. One, we most definitely want to have children, and I would rather avoid the confusion that goes with different names in the same family. I don't want our kids to be asked if their parents are divorced every time I sign a form for them. Second, when I said something to FI about changing my name to his, it made him ridiculously giddy to think of me as Mrs Hisname. I think he finds it romantic to think that I find him, and his name, worthy of my taking. Is it tradition that has him feeling that way? Perhaps. But, it's hard to ignore how happy changing my name to his will make him, especially when I don't feel a huge attachment to mine. As for the history of my maiden name, that's something I can teach our kids about someday.