Living in China?

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/13/2007 1:00:34 PM
Author: crown1
hi! i have friends that lived in china, working for the same company as my husband, for 3 years. their children were college age and did not accompany them. they had a company provided apartment that was pretty primitive by our standards. the company provided them with interpreters and transportation. they were not in a major city.

the wife had to have her appendix removed while there. the husband was found to have cancer while home for a visit and had to abandon the project to return to the us for surgery and treatment. they are the type of people who can adapt to any situation and were up for the adventure but there were things that were trying. hth.

I"M sorry they had such hard times.... we would be in a very major city and from the pics I"ve seen from my friend there, it''s anything but primitive. Their house is at least as nice as their house here.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/13/2007 1:30:52 PM
Author: surfgirl
While I haven''t lived in Asia, I work in Asia often, spending anywhere from a few weeks to a few months at a time. And I have a lot of friends living there so I am quite familiar with the living situation. In any country and especially in Asia, cultural sensitivity is of the utmost importance. And that extends to holding your tongue at times, even if you personally don''t agree with what''s being said or done. That said, I am in the international development field so I have to be culturally sensitive wherever I am. But I''ve seen alot of corporate foreigners that act like asses on a regular basis because they dont understand that they''re ''not in Kansas anymore'' and therefore, things aren''t supposed to be like they are at home.

No, you cant/shouldn''t wear your ering there. It would be both inappropriate and dangerous, IMO. Inappropriate in that most people live way below what we do in a western country and IMO, it''s not appropriate to throw our expendable wealth in the face of others. It can cause many problems, including those of safety. I dont take anything with me that I cant stand to lose. The culture is harsh in many ways (IMO) - think, lots of hawking and spitting on your shoes, in your face vendors, people who seem to be YELLING all the time (though they''re really not), etc. But it''s not my country and all that is acceptable there. You need to be able to be both adaptable and accept that things you might not condone are going to occur in front of you and you''ll have to just accept that. As far as living in a foreign enclave goes, I find those places to be awful. They are for people who want to live overseas but without the mess of having to ''really live overseas'' if you know what I mean. Most of the people living in these enclaves - in my experience - have very low thresholds for local customs and people. They live their lives in a mini-American gated community, with their own swimmming pools, local shops stocked with American products, etc. The only thing ''local'' about their experience is their local maid, nanny and/or gardener. I dont understand why they even leave home since they just insulate themselves from their locale anyway. I do have some friends who live within local neighborhoods and I much prefer those living situations. But they also come with their own set of issues. Most locations require guards since the homes are located in better hoods; then there''s the Communist Party system and that brings alot of issues into daily life. The local Party watchdogs will monitor who goes in/out of your home. You''ll sometimes get ''visits'' from the local People''s Committee, trying to see what you''re up to and get bribes from you if you have foreign guests staying with you, etc.

Dont know if that''s enough info for you but that''s based solely on my personal experience. Other''s may have other experiences...

LOL I''m more convinced than ever that I"m *definitely* an "enclave" sort of girl LOL I think I would still have plenty to experience without *full* emersion.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/13/2007 4:13:09 PM
Author: whatmeworry
As well as the language issues, be prepared to be illiterate as well, you won''t be able to read menus, signs, etc.

I am *totally* open to learning the language, both for me and my kids. I don''t imagine it would be easy, particularly the written language, but I see this more as an oppportunity than a hinderance.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/13/2007 4:14:38 PM
Author: Chrono
And be prepared to bargain for everything or get ripped off since you obviously look different and don''t speak the language.

LOL Yeah, that''s gonna take some getting used to.

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 6/14/2007 11:39:41 AM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 6/13/2007 4:13:09 PM
Author: whatmeworry
As well as the language issues, be prepared to be illiterate as well, you won''t be able to read menus, signs, etc.

I am *totally* open to learning the language, both for me and my kids. I don''t imagine it would be easy, particularly the written language, but I see this more as an oppportunity than a hinderance.

That''s so true!! Hubby speaks Chinese fluently whereas mine is very so-so, actually nowhere as good as his (though I am trying very hard to learn it). You should see the amazed looks on people''s faces when he speaks to them in Chinese. Most of the time, they will look at me expecting me to speak Chinese and then I turn to him and he just goes off, non-stop!! LOL! Can you imagine? Here I am Chinese looking, speaking appalling Chinese and here is DH fair-haired, fair-skinned, speaking Chinese fluently!! People will respect you more and doors will open when you make an effort, just like any other country in the world, really.

 

[elle]

Rebot made plenty of good points.

Go with an open mind. We lived in Beijing before and would move back there in a heartbeat - BUT only to the big cities and only on expat status - as housing, medical and education is very expensive. You can get some pretty fancy enclave style compunds with mansions there - most are usually out of the city and near the international schools. There are private hospitals with expat drs or foreign trained local drs - whom I have found extremely competent. Local hospitals also have a foreigner wing which has much nicer facilities than the local wing. (I have to admit that the double tier system is disturbing). I foudn that kids made friends faster there because it's an international environment than say in the a city in the US where it's an established community. Pollution is bad some days, spitting is still an issue, yes, you will experience getting ripped off but the trade off is an experience of a lifetime.

Shanghai is such a cosmopolitan city, you can be dancing at a ball or bidding up a storm at a charity auction dinner one evening and stepping on spit whilst bargaining over fantastic silks at the dirty fabric market the next day. It's the juxtaposition of contrasts which we found very engaging. If you're going to the Ritz Carlton for dinner - wear your gems - it's perfectly safe. If you're going to the markets - watch your wallet - as in most major cities in the world. You can affordably have nannies, housekeepers, drivers, get massages for $10, pay 50c for a bottle of local beer, or indulge in fantastic $150 wine dinners and then get your feet if like mine get swollen after too much alcohol, rubbed at 2am for $10 before you lumber off to bed which btw way is already made and cleaned up by someone else. All the travel you can do, things your kids will get to see and experience that they've only read about... Not forgetting the Olympics in 08 - I'd say best time to be in China is now - it'll be at it's cleanest ever! I could go on and on

Good luck wtih your decision.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Okay, I''m going to be getting more info tomorrow, but it turns out that we would likely NOT go to shanghai. Bummer for me because the ONE person I know in China is there LOL I wrote her this am to seek some specific info about the company etc. So the cities are: Chengdu, Dalian, Shenzhen. And I *think* it is Dalian. I''ve never heard of it - from what I''ve read it is beautiful but I''ll have to look some more. I know nothing about it. My dh told me today at lunch but I forgot - the only thing I could remember was it started with a D but now that I''m looking at these names I dunno... Beijing is on the list too but I know it wasn''t that one LOL I asked him if there was anywhere else he could go and he said Ireland... and of course today I remembered my animals and went oh crap what are we going to do with them????

 

[Harriet]

My mom had a colleague who brought her dogs to and fro, so the quarantine situation couldn''t have been to strict.

 

[clammer]

Sara - Figure out which city it would be and I can get information for you. I have read somewhere that Dalian is the number one city for expats, but I''ll have to find that article again. Also, one of my good friends is from Shenzhen.

We just brought my dog back from Michigan and quarantine has gotten much stricter in the last year. Beijing requires two weeks, Shanghai is one week, but if you flew them through HK there is only one night. Our expat package will move one pet both ways one time. I keep telling you about what our package has and what your package should have because what your company offers you will definitely influence how easy it is to adjust here.

hlmr - pollution is bad everywhere, but the worst seems to be in Shanghai and Beijing. Yantai is considered to be a small town (of 6 million people) and there is very little to do. It is also a nightmare to find western food whereas Qingdao has a metro (like Sam''s club) and Carefor so that''s where I go to stock up on cheese, cereal, etc... The only things we have here are a McDonald''s (big surprise), KFC, and Walmart (this Walmart makes the ones at home look high end)

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/14/2007 8:17:21 PM
Author: Rebot
Sara - Figure out which city it would be and I can get information for you. I have read somewhere that Dalian is the number one city for expats, but I''ll have to find that article again. Also, one of my good friends is from Shenzhen.

We just brought my dog back from Michigan and quarantine has gotten much stricter in the last year. Beijing requires two weeks, Shanghai is one week, but if you flew them through HK there is only one night. Our expat package will move one pet both ways one time. I keep telling you about what our package has and what your package should have because what your company offers you will definitely influence how easy it is to adjust here.

hlmr - pollution is bad everywhere, but the worst seems to be in Shanghai and Beijing. Yantai is considered to be a small town (of 6 million people) and there is very little to do. It is also a nightmare to find western food whereas Qingdao has a metro (like Sam''s club) and Carefor so that''s where I go to stock up on cheese, cereal, etc... The only things we have here are a McDonald''s (big surprise), KFC, and Walmart (this Walmart makes the ones at home look high end)

It is Dalian - unfortunately my dh screwed up his schedule and he missed the meeting (thought it was tomorrow and it was today while he and I were at an indian restaurant LOL) It isn''t the end of the world, but its a bummer for the instant gratification. He did learn a lot though and we sat and talked about it for about an hour... we''re going to go over it again, what he can get from the website. I am certain it is Dalian though. Apparently they have two good schools there and school is paid for.

I''d never even heard of that city but it doesn''t seem small and from what I read it is a beautiful resort town near north korea?

Two weeks is awesome! I mean it sucks, but it isn''t 6 months!!! At this time we have a dog, FIVE CATS (only keeping two) and two rats.

Okay - I was wondering why I kept wanting to call a 4.5 million person city a "town" LOL DH would work 45 minutes from towntown Dalian and they''re building western homes right now near there.... we would be provided a furnished home and a car. I don''t know what else.

Oh - the insurance would be Etna World or Etna International or Etna something. We have Cigna right now - I know nothing about Etna.

They have a lot of perks like flying you to Hong Kong once a year for 5 days, expenses paid... and flying you "home" to the us 2x a year plus an extra 5 days of vacation (plus the 5 hong kong days) on top of his already 6 weeks so its like 8 weeks, geeeeez!

 

[hlmr]

Date: 6/14/2007 8:17:21 PM
Author: Rebot
hlmr - pollution is bad everywhere, but the worst seems to be in Shanghai and Beijing. Yantai is considered to be a small town (of 6 million people) and there is very little to do. It is also a nightmare to find western food whereas Qingdao has a metro (like Sam''s club) and Carefor so that''s where I go to stock up on cheese, cereal, etc... The only things we have here are a McDonald''s (big surprise), KFC, and Walmart (this Walmart makes the ones at home look high end)

Thanks for answering Rebot!! It sounds like you have what it takes to adapt to a new culture, and.....your information is so insightful and honest.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/13/2007 9:56:53 PM
Author: Rebot
hlmr.. it''s funny that your dad lived in Qingdao. That is the ''big'' city we go to when we are trying to get out of our hell hole.

China isn''t for the faint hearted. You said that your husband''s company is large, so is my husband''s (he works for one of the big three auto companies), I am assuming that you would have a package similar to ours. We are living a lifestyle that we could not have at home. We have a driver, a house almost three times the size of the one back home, a maid that is doing my dishes as I type this, and no expenses. We sold our house and cars before we came, so after we put money into stocks and 401k everything gets banked.

We are here only for the money and to further my husband''s career. We do not love the Chinese culture however we do appreciate it. I''m sorry if I offend anyone, that was not my intent. It is a decision that only your family can make. I would, in a nanosecond, choose Europe if we could get the same benefits as here, which we can''t because Europe is not a developing country.

Assuming that your family would have a package similar to ours, you would not have the medical issues that you have heard about in this thread. Quick story...My husband and I traveled to Vietnam and Thailand for three weeks. Last week, about a week after we got home, my husband came down with what we think was food poisoning. He started having blood in his stool and we called the SOS hotline. They wanted to fly him out of Yantai immediately, but hubby said that he would take his cyprical (sp) and call them first thing in the morning to set up a flight. He is completely fine now, but they called twice to make sure and urged him to set up an appt. to get checked for parasites which you can get in both Vietnam and Thailand. Dh''s company/insurance is flying him to Beijing and putting him up overnight to run tests on something that may have occurred while we were on vacation not in China. I''m assuming that all lg. companies do this.

Check out http://www.worldlink-shanghai.com/. This is where we go for all of our check-ups. We have ulterior motive for going to Beijing this weekend, typically we do all medical in Shanghai. It is more expensive than a lot of places you can go, but...while...we''re not paying

eta: smaller cities are backwards with their medical care like hmlr said. We don''t get anything done here in Yantai, nor would we go to Qingdao to do it. Most people are not educated about their health and local doctors actually prescribe stuff like dried monkey balls.

I must have misssed this post before because I''m cracking up LOL Monkey balls LOL I believe it and yet.... yikes!!

So about how much is it to travel around within china or to thailand or japan etc.? I imagine much less than flying from oregon, but..... if I was living in dalian and wanted to fly to visit my friend in shanghai, what would it run about - aproximately?

 

[clammer]

Sara..Your package sounds like it would be similar to ours, which is a good thing. Our insurance is Cigna International which is awesome so I''m surprised that they would switch you from Cigna. The extra vacation is great. Unlike random holidays off in the US, China has a week in February, May, and October so it''s basically like getting three more weeks.

If you guys do decide to come over, we''ll have to figure out a way to get you my email address. There are so many things I wish we would have had someone tell us. There are certain things you should ask for in your housing contract that won''t be offered. Ways to deal with and get proper receipts. A lot of things that your company probably offers you but they don''t freely tell you. etc...

I just looked and you could get a ticket from Dalian to Shanghai for about $80-100 round trip. I''m not sure about the cost to Thailand, Bali etc.. We have always used frequent flyer miles. You will rack up a ton if you live here.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/15/2007 4:35:43 AM
Author: Rebot
Sara..Your package sounds like it would be similar to ours, which is a good thing. Our insurance is Cigna International which is awesome so I''m surprised that they would switch you from Cigna. The extra vacation is great. Unlike random holidays off in the US, China has a week in February, May, and October so it''s basically like getting three more weeks.

That''s so awesome about the inexpensive flights... In a way it makes me nervous since I think, okay, what''s lacking in safety?? As for the days off, I dunno if it would be like that in manufacturing. His company tends to operate 24/7. In fact that''s why he has as much vacaction as he does. Technically he has only 4 weeks but he gets 11 "floater" days that represent days like 4th of july, christmas, thanksgiving etc. and then he can take them whenever he wants... like he usually works presidents day (and gets a lot done since so many are gone that day lol) and then he can use that day for the day *after* thanksgiving that isn''t a "holiday". I''m guessing they still work over the chinese holidays as well, but I cannot say for sure.

 

[crown1]

sara, i am so excited for you and your family. this sounds so interesting. i am living vicariously thru you and following this thread closely.

thanks to all who have contributed. keep it coming.

 

[Stone Hunter]

WOW this is BIG news. I''m so sorry that you''ll HAVE to move no matter where you go. I HATE moving.

But since the company will move you and you''ll leave most of your stuff here in the US it might be better than our last move.

Ireland would be a place to explore where you speak the language. China is such a large country and is so different from place to place. But maybe it''s the best career option for your husband?

I''ve always said I wouldn''t go to China without a friend that speaks the language with me. I bet your company could provide you an interpreter for your first few trips around the area.?? I''d ask about it. A short time till you get used to the area.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/15/2007 12:24:08 PM
Author: crown1
sara, i am so excited for you and your family. this sounds so interesting. i am living vicariously thru you and following this thread closely.

thanks to all who have contributed. keep it coming.

Well, we''ll see LOL The wheels move slowly... and there''s a lot to consider. I''ve lived on the other side of the country and gone a couple years without seeing family, but everyone''s older now (parents) and we have kids... and considering it''s been DHs burning dream to be back in socal with his family, it''s a bit odd he''s suggesting we move *way* further LOL He knows this and he''s torn between a dream (san diego) and an opportunity (china).

I agree, keep it coming. I feel thirsty for info. I''ve done a lot of researching but NONE of it is as useful as hearing people''s *experiences*.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 6/15/2007 3:12:46 PM
Author: Stone Hunter
WOW this is BIG news. I''m so sorry that you''ll HAVE to move no matter where you go. I HATE moving.

But since the company will move you and you''ll leave most of your stuff here in the US it might be better than our last move.

Ireland would be a place to explore where you speak the language. China is such a large country and is so different from place to place. But maybe it''s the best career option for your husband?

I''ve always said I wouldn''t go to China without a friend that speaks the language with me. I bet your company could provide you an interpreter for your first few trips around the area.?? I''d ask about it. A short time till you get used to the area.

career option... hmmm..... I dunno. If we went he would do the same thing he did here which is ramp up a process and the one here is the largest in the world so he got a lot of props for heading that up... and going there would be essentially doing the same thing but on a smaller scale but in a foreign country. And I''m not sure he wants to pigeonhole himself as THE guy to do this one thing LOL Frankly he''s in tech and he''d rather be in power, but that''s another subject altogether. He''s been with this company and has worked for three entirely different divisions. I think he''d like to try a 4th but I don''t think it would rule his decision.

Ireland would be safer - the weather is like here in oregon, the language is nearly identical, it isn''t as far, travel would be a but more along where my interests lie, but on the other hand.... there is something about the exotic.... If we follow this, we''d get flown out there for 5 days to decide if we really want to do it.