Looking for a 1.5-2.0ct square cushion sapphire!

[emcee]

Whoops, sorry for the wonky formatting!!

 

[chrono]

Emcee,
Sorry you no longer have the option of the Gem Fix sapphire. That, unfortunately, is the result of online businesses and forums. If you don't reserve a stone before posting for opinions, it becomes fair game to everyone else.

I watched the video on my iPhone last night and concur that my preference is for GOG 1 and 2. GOG 3 and 4 are too desaturated. Actually, 1 and 2 are already medium dark toned; to go any darker means it either becomes mostly extinct and/or edges into the dark tone category. My preference is actually more into the slightly velvety glowy type of stones too but that's not what you want. The question I now ask is this - what was the lighting condition of the first stone? If GOG put stones 1 and 2 under the same type of lighting, is that sparkly enough for you?

 

[lin_ny]

#1 and #2 are pretty close to the 'perfect' blue in my opinion. I see the scintillation of #4 though, and that's gorgeous. Why can't they just combine the 2 for the perfect stone? hahahaha.

I agree with Chrono though, gotta love that silkiness/velvety-ness of the first 2.

Is #1/2 or #4 closer to your budget?

 

[emcee]

Chrono, yeah that was the precise reason I didn't want to share the vendor name or link. That stone wasn't even posted on their site, so I figured it wouldn't be an issue. I will have to be even more careful next time

Thanks for your advice about the not going any darker! That's a really good point and I'll keep it in mind.

Stone #1 was from early on in my search so I wasn't smart enough to pay attention to the lighting conditions of the gemologist's studio/store but I'm sure it was conditions meant to maximize the brilliance of diamonds (the store's specialty). I think it was pot-lights, plus the stone was under a lamp in the beginning of the video (you can tell when my hand moves away from the lamp).

However, the GOG stones were presented in all kinds of lighting and GOG #1&2 were never very sparkly (even in conditions that are meant to maximize scintillation) especially when compared to GOG#4. It seems safe to assume that the sparkly-ness would have come out in GOG#1&2 in one of those lighting conditions, if it existed.

Any thoughts on where else I should look if I want the sparkliest stone possible? I've contacted a few precision cutters but their inventories are minimal and I haven't found anything in the right color and cut.


Lin_ny, haha yeah my exact hope is to find something in the color of GOG#1&2 but with the brilliance of #4. Haha maybe I'm living in dream-land but I still have some hope that I can find it! All three stones are a bit pricier but within my budget so that's not really a big deal.

 

[marymm]

Another possible option - and I suggest it because lately I've been crushing on Richard Homer's concave cut sapphires - but I'll add in the caveat that in my experience people either love or hate concave cuts, and pricing can be more expensive for concave cut stones - but right now Richard has a 1.84ct square cushion (6.7mm) that seems to have close to the color you're looking for and should be very flashy...



It is the 8th stone from the bottom, here: http://www.concavegems.com/query3.cfm?yVarieties=Sapphire&ySpecies=Corundum

 

[lin_ny]

Emcee - just saved your video of that first sapphire you posted. I think I'll send this with my boyfriend to the gemologist when he's shopping. I would LOVVVEEE to have something (maybe not quite that dark) but with that beautiful scintillation. yummy.

 

[emcee]

Another possible option - and I suggest it because lately I've been crushing on Richard Homer's concave cut sapphires - but I'll add in the caveat that in my experience people either love or hate concave cuts, and pricing can be more expensive for concave cut stones - but right now Richard has a 1.84ct square cushion (6.7mm) that seems to have close to the color you're looking for and should be very flashy...



It is the 8th stone from the bottom, here: http://www.concavegems.com/query3.cfm?yVarieties=Sapphire&ySpecies=Corundum

Thanks for the suggestion, marymm! I had checked out Richard Homer's concave cut stones in the past but I never truly considered them because I wasn't sure I was a fan of the cut style. It's worth considering again so I'll probably contact them! And I tried zooming out of a photo and the facets aren't very noticeable...I bet in real life you would only notice the sparkles!

I think the one you suggested is beautiful but it's lighter in color than I hoped for (maybe great for lin_ny??). I loooove the color of these three though: http://www.concavegems.com/detail.cfm?zNum=6937,, http://www.concavegems.com/detail.cfm?zNum=6818,, and http://www.concavegems.com/detail.cfm?zNum=5986.. Do you guys think those colors are too dark?

 

[emcee]

Emcee - just saved your video of that first sapphire you posted. I think I'll send this with my boyfriend to the gemologist when he's shopping. I would LOVVVEEE to have something (maybe not quite that dark) but with that beautiful scintillation. yummy.

Good luck to your boyfriend!!! Do you guys have a timeline for when you want to have your ring completed?

 

[lin_ny]

I think the one you suggested is beautiful but it's lighter in color than I hoped for (maybe great for lin_ny??). I loooove the color of these three though: http://www.concavegems.com/detail.cfm?zNum=6937,,, http://www.concavegems.com/detail.cfm?zNum=6818,,, and http://www.concavegems.com/detail.cfm?zNum=5986... Do you guys think those colors are too dark?

I think we are kinda looking for the same thing, except I'd like an elongated cushion. I want the same tone as that video you just posted today... that deep, royal blue but not too deep (haha) with a velvety glow!! Those few concaves you posted look nice to me!! I'd love to see a concave in person. Must sparkle like crazy!@!

Emcee - just saved your video of that first sapphire you posted. I think I'll send this with my boyfriend to the gemologist when he's shopping. I would LOVVVEEE to have something (maybe not quite that dark) but with that beautiful scintillation. yummy.

Good luck to your boyfriend!!! Do you guys have a timeline for when you want to have your ring completed?

Considering how picky I am, he needs it...

No timeline... I don't think he's ready to buy anything yet.

 

[Fly Girl]

Another possible option - and I suggest it because lately I've been crushing on Richard Homer's concave cut sapphires - but I'll add in the caveat that in my experience people either love or hate concave cuts, and pricing can be more expensive for concave cut stones - but right now Richard has a 1.84ct square cushion (6.7mm) that seems to have close to the color you're looking for and should be very flashy...



It is the 8th stone from the bottom, here: http://www.concavegems.com/query3.cfm?yVarieties=Sapphire&ySpecies=Corundum

Thanks for the suggestion, marymm! I had checked out Richard Homer's concave cut stones in the past but I never truly considered them because I wasn't sure I was a fan of the cut style. It's worth considering again so I'll probably contact them! And I tried zooming out of a photo and the facets aren't very noticeable...I bet in real life you would only notice the sparkles!

I think the one you suggested is beautiful but it's lighter in color than I hoped for (maybe great for lin_ny??). I loooove the color of these three though: http://www.concavegems.com/detail.cfm?zNum=6937,,,, http://www.concavegems.com/detail.cfm?zNum=6818,,,, and http://www.concavegems.com/detail.cfm?zNum=5986.... Do you guys think those colors are too dark?

I've seen Richard Homer's gems in person at local roundtables, and his stones have a lot of light return from the concave faceting. Go by his descriptions for each stone and call him to ask more questions. I think the three that emcee picked out will have the darkest body colors, but that is fine if that is the look that you love. The 8th stone from the bottom listed above would be a nice sapphire blue, but all the white you are seeing in the photo from the different faceting means that you can't really compare it to the color of a sapphire with "regular" faceting.

BTW, a Richard Homer sapphire would be stunning. He is a top-notch award-winning designer and cutter.

 

[chrono]

I own one RH concave cut stone and although it is gorgeous, I am unlikely to get another. The colour and cutting is top notch but it's just not the look for me. I kept the stone though because it is simply too beautiful to return. I do own other Richard Homer stones that are cut in the traditional flat faceting style so he MAY cut a "regular" blue sapphire by request.

Some have described concave cutting as static and to me it is. But at the same time, it is also extremely sparkly. It does not have the broad colour flashes of traditional cutting but shoots of many slivers of light and colour back to the eye. Think princess cut stone light performance but even that isn't a wholly accurate description.

The 3 stones posted are definitely towards the darker toned side but still nice looking enough and bright enough for the colour to show through easily. I would not go any darker than that.

 

[emcee]

Hey Chrono,

Would you say that this video is a good representation of what concave cut stones look like? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQr-DfyDjrc If so, I see what you mean by it being static...it has bright flashes/lines, but they seem to stay stay still even as the stone moves and it doesn't really "sparkle" like other sapphires I've seen. If it is indeed what concave stones look like, I don't think it's quite right for me...

 

[emcee]

Also, here's another stone that I've come across https://vimeo.com/48348119

Sorry the video quality is so low but I hope it shows enough of the stone. I can upload a better quality version if necessary.

So it's a 3.09ct unheated oval sapphire and the color and brilliance is out of this world! However, it's not quite the right shape and the price (although it's excellent for a 3ct unheated) is at the upper limit of what I had in mind. I also think that a 3ct in a halo setting would look way too huge on my size 2.5 finger!

Anyway, this stone is definitely the best of anything that I've seen to date. Would you guys say that this is more of a medium vivid color? I'm not really sure how to describe it. And how on earth do I find another stone that has this amazing light performance??? Oh just an FYI that this video was taken under spotlights.

Here are some still photos of the stone.

(Is that dark top half considered extinction? It brightens up in other angles though.)


And just a random photo, here is a really pretty setting that I never thought I would ever like! Not a fan of the overly dark sapphire though.

 

[Justin_Cutter]

Here are some still photos of the stone.

(Is that dark top half considered extinction? It brightens up in other angles though.)



emcee, This stone is pretty nice. However I do have a couple thoughts.

1. In your video the stone shows moderate to strong extinction which I believe to be a direct result of how it was cut. Extinction is my personal pet peeve but the picture you took doesn't show it as much as the video. This ultimately will be your call on what is acceptable.

2. As far as color goes I would describe it as medium dark with very strong saturation in the areas the that don't suffer from the extinction. Not sure if I would put it into the "VIvid" category.

3. I will be no help to you in talking you out of a 3+ carat stone because I love big stones and tastefully crafted big rings!!! I will say this tho. I do not think a halo setting would be the best option for this stone. Considering the stones extinction I personally feel that a Halo setting may hinder its light gathering which would most likely make the extinction worse.

4. It is so hard to find a nice cushion cut sapphire that has good color, brilliance, and clarity. I passed up many ovals in my search for my wife's cushion sapphire. But in the end it had to be a cushion. She was unyielding in that area.

5. Over all this stone is sooooo much nicer looking than the first one you posted!

~Justin

 

[chrono]

Yup, that's a pretty good representation of a concave cut stone. Very pretty but "still".

Ah, thanks for the video of the latest sapphire. It tells a better story than the still picture. Colour is indeed pretty with good strong saturation but the extinction is quite extensive at times. I don't see it as much in the picture but see it quite often in the video which made me pause. If pricing is very good, I might forgive the extinction because the colour is nice and at certain angles, the stone "opens" up. For an e-ring stone though, I'm not sure if I'll go for it.

I agree with Justin that despite all the flaws mentioned above, this is a FAR better stone than the first one posted. Better colour, tone and everything else. Size is very personal. I like big stones so 3 carats is not too big at all to me. I've even halo-ed a 5 carat stone for a 4.5 finger so I'm not the right person to ask. For stones that have extinction issues, I do not recommend an enclosed type setting, much less a halo. It needs as much light into it as possible.

 

[lin_ny]

Those flashes of bright blue on that new oval are to dieeee for.

Do you folks think that if it was re-cut the extinction would improve? If emcee wants a bit of a smaller stone, that might be an option.

 

[chrono]

Maybe, maybe not. Who knows if there are inclusions to work around, zoning that might become apparent and what not. What IS assured is that the stone will drop below the 3 carat mark, so in addition to the cutting fee paid, there's a huge drop in its market value (under 3 carat mark rarity is lost plus pricing per carat is also lessened because it is priced as 2 ct stone versus a 3 carat stone). I wish I can find better words to explain what seems very clear in my mind.

 

[emcee]

Justin_Cutter & Chorno: Thank you for your feedback! I did notice the extinction and have been trying to decide how much it bothers me. I think that overall, if I find a stone with such outstanding brilliance, I would forgive a little bit of extinction, as long as the darker areas brighten up in some/many angles. That is a really good point about avoiding halo settings for a stone like this one, so I will have to keep that in mind.

Thanks for also pointing out the "strong saturation." I'll be sure to request that as I contact any other vendors.

Haha as for size, I will have to think about it. I do think that I would probably pass on this stone (mostly because of its shape), but also partly due to its size and price. This stone was jaw-droppingly gorgeous in person though and I did loooove how the size looked on my hand. It's just that, in theory, I prefer to be a bit less flashy with my everyday jewelry since I work in a more conservative office environment and this stone was very large and "flashy" in a literal way.

And regarding a recut, yeah I'm hesitant about it for all the reasons Chrono mentioned (your explanation made perfect sense!). If the stone was lower priced and in the 2.25 or 2.5 range, I would have seriously considered cutting it down to a cushion shape.

Oh well! So the search continues!

 

[emcee]

ALRIGHT, so after quite a dry spell, I have come across two stones with great potential. I don't have a ton of info on the second one, but here is the first:


Video here: https://vimeo.com/49028879
- from AJS (reserved this time )
- 2.04 carats
- $2,995.00
- Eye Clean
- Origin: Ceylon
- Heated
- 7.48 x 7.22 x 4.56 mm

Some additional info from the vendor:
- "This gem may look a bit light in our photo, which was taken under strong lighting. But it actually appears a rich royal blue under normal room lighting."
- "it is a very well cut stone that doesn't suffer from extinction or zoning when viewed face up. You may notice some slight zoning on the pavilion in the video, but the gem is expertly cut so that the face up color is very consistent."
- I had some concerns that, from the video, the stone didn't look as sparkly as the 3.09ct oval video that I posted, but this is their response: "The 2.04 ct round Ceylon sapphire is quite a sparkly gem. I just had another look at it and turned it in the light at a distance, similar to the video link you sent. It does indeed sparkle in a similar way. Our video is taken under magnification with a macro lens that gets very close to the gem into order to show every detail. But every time a facet turns white in our video you would see a bright flash. I think it's a beautiful stone and its fire is in the top 10% of all the blue sapphires in our inventory."

I'm getting really nervous about all of this but I think it is a very beautiful stone. The color appears very saturated and gorgeous. I'm ever so slightly concerned that the light performance (i.e. bright flashes of blue) doesn't compare to the 3.09 oval, but perhaps I should trust the vendor since they seem to be very reputable among PSers and they know what they're talking about.


As for the second stone, it is something that I may get Roger Dery to recut for me. It is also on reserve.
- 1.56 carats
- round 6.2mm at 4.8mm deep
- color is a rich blue with just the slightest hint of purple, has many very small facets that make for a very brilliant and lively stone. In my size range, he says this is the finest stone he has, regardless of shape
- heated
- $2574

Other than that, I haven't seen photos or gotten much other info, since he was just leaving town for a show. I am very drawn to this stone, just based on his description and his reputation. I won't know more for at least a week until he returns though.

THOUGHTS? What do I do??

 

[emcee]

Oh, just thought I'd add that the 2.04 round stone comes with a GemResearch Swisslab (GRS) lab report. Is that sufficient or do I really need to get it re-tested locally? I'd like to avoid that route since I'd like to get this e-ring business sorted out asap!

 

[Justin_Cutter]

Oh, just thought I'd add that the 2.04 round stone comes with a GemResearch Swisslab (GRS) lab report. Is that sufficient or do I really need to get it re-tested locally? I'd like to avoid that route since I'd like to get this e-ring business sorted out asap!

The GRS report will be sufficient as they are a very respected lab. AGL has worked hand in hand with GRS in the past so I would not worry about obtaining another report. If you are interested in the two labs working together check this out. http://www.aglgemlab.com/News/GRS-AGL release on Hybrid-Composite ruby 2011.pdf

I am SO glad you reserved this stone. I am really liking the look of this 2.04ct Round. I think this stone is the best so far, providing the video is accurate! I do think AJS is shining a bright light directly above the stone and since the stone is laying on its side the light is also entering the side of the stone. This could make the stone appear a little lighter than it will once set. If this video is indeed accurate then the color is excellent and the cut looks nice as well! I see no signs of a window or extinction.

I am not going to offer an opinion on the sparkle of this stone compared to another because I find this very difficult to describe and highly subjective. I will say this tho. Keep in mind how slow the stone is turning in this video. That can effect perceived sparkle.

I think it is priced a little high but I can forgive the price because the color,cut, and finish looks very nice.

Honestly emcee, I think this one could be it! The verdict will be out on the sparkle of the stone until you see it in person but from all other view points this looks very very promising. Not trying to push you toward a stone but if it were my money so far this 2.04ct wins hands down.

Best of Luck!
~Justin

 

[emcee]

Thank you so much, Justin! You have no idea how happy your post made me!!! I had already planned on making a full payment on Sunday/Monday but I was worried that PSers would catch something horrible about the stone that I missed. I'm so glad that you love it too!

If anyone else has comments or feedback about the stone, I'd love to hear it

Edited to say thank you for your thoughts on the cert, lighting, and sparkle. It was a huge help and has eased the remainder of my small concerns!

 

[Justin_Cutter]

Thank you so much, Justin! You have no idea how happy your post made me!!! I had already planned on making a full payment on Sunday/Monday but I was worried that PSers would catch something horrible about the stone that I missed. I'm so glad that you love it too!

If anyone else has comments or feedback about the stone, I'd love to hear it

Edited to say thank you for your thoughts on the cert, lighting, and sparkle. It was a huge help and has eased the remainder of my small concerns!

No problem, I am glad my input helped!

Just a side note I just viewed the video of the stone on a laptop with a faded out screen and on this screen I see a extremely small window in the center of the stone. I still differ to my previous assessment of the stone since I was viewing it on my calibrated screen at home on which I did not see a window.

I just bring it up as an observation in case someone else sees the same issue. I still stand by what I said and I don't think the picture of the stone does it justice at all!

~Justin

 

[emcee]

Ah, I see. Hopefully there is no window, but if it is a tiny one then maybe it will get closed off once the stone is set. And if it's very small then I'm not too bothered by it, but of course it would be better if there was no window at all.

I agree that the picture doesn't do it justice! I wasn't sold at all after seeing the photo. I only considered it because it was their only round stone that is in the right size. It wasn't until AJS recommended it as one of their best stones that I realized how good it was

 

[chrono]

There is a small window but the size is such that it will sort of disappear once set. Saturation looks great in the video but I wonder how dark it really is without the strong lighting. Also, how is the shift under fluorescent lighting? It is known on PS that AJS' pictures show a more saturated gem than in person. Still, this one is worth persuing and a GRS memo is sufficient. The colour is almost even and there seems to have little extinction.

 

[Justin_Cutter]

There is a small window but the size is such that it will sort of disappear once set. Saturation looks great in the video but I wonder how dark it really is without the strong lighting. Also, how is the shift under fluorescent lighting? It is known on PS that AJS' pictures show a more saturated gem than in person. Still, this one is worth persuing and a GRS memo is sufficient. The colour is almost even and there seems to have little extinction.

Chrono's question about the color shift in Fluorescent Lighting is important. See if AJS can comment on this!

I have now viewed this video on 5 different monitors and I see a very small window on 3 of them. Odds are the stone does have a small window, but as Chrono has already said this probably will close up once set. Also the window really is small compared to most windowed stones I see on the market so If it doesn't bother you then go for it.

emcee, I hope our assessments of these stones don't come across negatively to you. I just want you to get the best stone for your money! This stone could be it! Once you get to see it in person you will know for sure. There is only so much a picture and video can show.

~Justin

 

[emcee]

Thanks Chrono and Justin! I will ask AJS about the color shift under fluorescent lighting.

No worries, Justin, I welcome the critique!! I really appreciate all of your help in the process. I couldn't have done this without all of the helpful people on PS

I'll report back once I have more info on the color shift (and of course, I'll share photos once I get the stone)

 

[chrono]

Keeping my fingers crossed for you.

ETA
I'm sure you've noticed that the sapphire isn't a perfect round and a halo may end up accentuating that slight off-roundness. Perhaps you might be willing to accept this trade off if the colour turns out to be exactly what you are looking for.

 

[emcee]

I did notice that it was slightly off-round, but as you mentioned, I would be ok with that if the stone was otherwise perfect. On a related note, it's a bit weird that AJS's page lists the stone as 7.45 x 7.45 x 4.60 mm but the GRS lab report (show on the same page) says it is 7.48 x 7.22 x 4.56 mm. I figure it wasn't a big discrepancy so I never bothered asking.

I did get more info on whether the stone has any color shift though. This is their response:

We have lights that we use to test color-change gems, where the frequency mix changes from more blue (daylight) to more red/yellow (incandescent light).

Blue sapphires always look their best when viewed under daylight or lighting that emulates daylight. That would include natural light as well as artificial lighting that tends to be balanced, such as most fluorescent lighting and the 5000 Kelvin lamps that we use for all our photography.

The 2.04 ct does hold its color very well under incandescent lighting that has a stronger red/yellow component. There is really no color shift at all, though the blue is richer under daylight or fluorescent lighting.

That sounds good to me!! I have placed the order and should be receiving the stone by the end of the week. EEeeeeee, excited!

 

[chrono]

AJS did not quite answer your question. Sapphires look their best under daylight, sunlight emulating fluorescent and incandescent but what about regular office CFLs? They look their worst there and AJS has neatly sidestepped your question.