Looking for a blue-green or ice blue sapphire

[gemseeker2012]

See??!? Is this extinction? Is this inevitable? I'm hoping some of the PS celebrities and others can chime in on this.

 

[chrono]

Whoa, not a keeper at all. The stone shifted into an almost colourless silver stone (unless you really like it). This is why I always advise to check the stone out in all types of lighting before making your final decision. Some stones remain pretty but some can be an unpleasant shocker. This is not inevitable, it just is for this particular sapphire.

 

[Starzin]

So it's been a couple of days and hopefully you've had a chance to see both stones in daylight , fluorescent, incandescent and any other light you had handy. How did they look? Did the same thing happen?

I'm having a little bit of a panic attack regarding stone #4. Is it possible to only see extinction in some light? When I was looking at it last night with just my bedside reading lamp on, it appeared half silvery blah and half normal. Am I imagining this? I don't notice it in any other light, so far at least.

Bear in mind that bedroom reading lights are notoriously difficult for most gems and unless it does this in other lights, I wouldn't worry about it too much unless you only plan on wearing it while reading in bed Bear in mind also that while the silver colour is not something you might want it to change to very often, those black spots could well be your head as one vendor here - Gene? pointed out a while ago. It is very difficult to get either our heads or reflection from the camera, what we're wearing etc. - out of the way when taking a picture.

Let us know what's been happening.

 

[gemseeker2012]

Thanks Starzin and Chrono for your input. I think you both make excellent points.

I will be sending stone #3 back. As much as I adore the cut and color of the stone, it is a bit silky for my taste which really limits the sparkle factor - which is of high importance to me. I would have loved to keep this stone, but I don't think its the one for my engagement ring

As for stone #4, sigh, I do love the color of this sapphire 90% of the time, which I think I could live with. However, what bothers me much more than the color shift is the half/half shadowing that i now feel like I see in almost any light. I don't think this is a reflection of my head, I'm pretty sure its actually there. I understand that this is likely related to the dimensions of the stone, rather than the cutting job, per se. I'm just not sure what to do. I feel so torn about it, because this is definitely the best stone I've seen (considering what I was looking for) and it is truly beautiful. I'm just worried every time I look at it, I'm only going to be able to notice the shadowing and therefore whats the point. I'm wondering if I don't need to just look for a different cut/color all together. Perhaps what I'm looking for doesn't exist (or I just don't have the unlimited patience it takes to find it!). Thanks for all your help, will keep you posted!

 

[Starzin]

You sound so down and disappointed now and I'm so sorry the first delight is wearing off in this way.

I feel so torn about it, because this is definitely the best stone I've seen (considering what I was looking for) and it is truly beautiful. I'm just worried every time I look at it, I'm only going to be able to notice the shadowing and therefore whats the point.

Only you can decide, with stone in hand, if this is going to bother you forever. My feeling is that it should give you joy every time you look down at your hand, if this isn't happening - no matter how beautiful it is otherwise - it probably isn't "your" stone. As hard as it might be to find "the one", I would encourage you not to settle for one that you will always wish was better in some way. It's a tough decision but It's probably coming down to "love it or leave it" and depends somewhat on how long you are prepared to look for your unusual requirement also.

Can you give us some more pictures? FWIW I don't believe the first picture shows extinction but just a little natural shadowing as you turn the stone.

 

[corundum_conundrum]

Well, if you decide to return it, that means we get to keep shopping for you!

Have you checked-out the latest gemfix? The 2.32 ct one is light blue with a hint of teal. Seems like it might be one to consider.

http://www.gemfix.com/featured_gems.html

 

[chrono]

Can you give us some more pictures? FWIW I don't believe the first picture shows extinction but just a little natural shadowing as you turn the stone.

Starzin,
The half/half extinction is apparent, even in the first picture. It just becomes more pronounced when the lack of colour can no longer mask it. It cannot be natural shadowing because the line is very straight and splits the stone almost into 2 equal halves.

 

[chrono]

As for stone #4, sigh, I do love the color of this sapphire 90% of the time, which I think I could live with. However, what bothers me much more than the color shift is the half/half shadowing that i now feel like I see in almost any light. I don't think this is a reflection of my head, I'm pretty sure its actually there. I understand that this is likely related to the dimensions of the stone, rather than the cutting job, per se. I'm just not sure what to do. I feel so torn about it, because this is definitely the best stone I've seen (considering what I was looking for) and it is truly beautiful. I'm just worried every time I look at it, I'm only going to be able to notice the shadowing and therefore whats the point. I'm wondering if I don't need to just look for a different cut/color all together. Perhaps what I'm looking for doesn't exist (or I just don't have the unlimited patience it takes to find it!). Thanks for all your help, will keep you posted!

It's good that you've taken the time to live with the stone to see its personality. Sometimes, you don't see right it away but after a few days, certain things become a little more obvious to your eye. As your eyes get better trained, you'll pick the little details up a lot quicker. What you see IS relatted to the cut of the stone, not the dimension. Even precision cuts show this when the "incorrect" design is selected. Keep your chin up, the stone for you is out there!

 

[gemseeker2012]

Thanks Starzin, CC and Chrono! I just reread my email and didn't mean to sound quite so pitiful In the grand scheme of world problems, this is pretty tiny!

That said, I've been reading about this half/half extinction or shadowing as some people like to call it. They say that in elongated cuts it is due to the light refraction between the unequal length sides and therefore its not true extinction? Is that true? In either case, it kind of drives me nuts. The stone is such a beautiful color, but at any given time, I can't see half of it! Also, this stone was priced at close to $3000 which seemed a little extreme to me in the first place, but I would be willing to pay for "the one" - just not sure this is it. I have a couple more days to review it, so I'll let you know how it turns out. Thanks again for the help and input!

 

[chrono]

This sort of "extinction" is due to cutting, much the same way bowties are. They are not true extinction but it is still a darkening of the stone caused by its optical property coupled with the L/W ratio. A keel culet rather than a pointed culet is supposed to help eliminate this, so I've been told by a lapidary.

 

[Starzin]

Starzin,
The half/half extinction is apparent, even in the first picture. It just becomes more pronounced when the lack of colour can no longer mask it. It cannot be natural shadowing because the line is very straight and splits the stone almost into 2 equal halves.

Ah thanks Chrono, I was concentrating more on the side blotches and felt the patterning was different to the silver version. I'm still getting my eye in as you can tell

 

[Starzin]

That said, I've been reading about this half/half extinction or shadowing as some people like to call it. They say that in elongated cuts it is due to the light refraction between the unequal length sides and therefore its not true extinction? Is that true? In either case, it kind of drives me nuts. The stone is such a beautiful color, but at any given time, I can't see half of it! Also, this stone was priced at close to $3000 which seemed a little extreme to me in the first place, but I would be willing to pay for "the one" - just not sure this is it. I have a couple more days to review it, so I'll let you know how it turns out. Thanks again for the help and input!

As Chrono says, living with it for a few days you are bound to start noticing things you didn't at first. As long as you take your time and are sure you will have no regrets if you return it, but it does sound as though you don't love it anymore.

 

[ChrisA222]

Sometimes I can see where I'd compromise...like how you said 90% of the time you liked the color. Or, that you could 'live with it". Im with you, as my recently posted garnet ring is the red I'd wanted, except when its very sunny and I can see some Pumpkin-Orange.

However....how I am choosing to deal with it with my ring, is to wear it on mainly cloudy days, evenings out, and so on. But this is your engagement ring---so I would not choose a stone that is only nice 90%, or 60%, or 96%....pick something you love, without question, 100% of the time.

My thoughts of that stone are..not for me...because of how it totally de-saturated (got colorless) in the bedroom lighting. Fine for a nice color-stone ring to wear occasionally (when the conditions are right, like with my garnet), but not for "the" stone you want to be wearing al the time. especially at that price. I don't know if that 'extinction' would bother me though, its the de-saturation thats the deal-breaker.

Just my 2 cents..good luck on your continued search...this site is a great resource with all these members helping. If I see anyting I will post

 

[gemseeker2012]

Thanks, Chris A. I think you hit the nail on the head. If it was not my everyday for the rest of my life ring, I think I would have some more flexibility with less than ideal attributes.

The honeymoon period is definitely over. I'm going to wait to show it to my fiancee who has been out of town to see if I'm overreacting, but I'm guessing its really there.

OK, this may be slightly crazy, but I think I've found some rough sapphire that looks promising. Would it be completely insane to buy it an have someone cut it? I need to research a bit more to see exactly what to look for in rough, but I feel like it could be an option. I have definitely seen some well cut stones, so I have a good idea of who I'd ask to cut it Thoughts?

 

[Starzin]

OK, this may be slightly crazy, but I think I've found some rough sapphire that looks promising. Would it be completely insane to buy it an have someone cut it? I need to research a bit more to see exactly what to look for in rough, but I feel like it could be an option. I have definitely seen some well cut stones, so I have a good idea of who I'd ask to cut it Thoughts?

Not recommended at all. Faceters spend a lot of money learning to choose their rough in the beginning i.e. it's wasted either because of inclusions that weren't apparent in the rough that they then had to work around when cutting or the orientation didn't show the best colour and on and on. It's a lot more complicated that choosing a pretty chunk of preformed rough. I read a really good thread here just last week, I wish I'd bookmarked it but you might find this one interesting https://www.pricescope.com/communit...ogic-of-lousy-cutting-for-more-carats.175136/

Did you check out the hexagon and princess I pointed out earlier in the thread?

 

[gemseeker2012]

Thanks, Starzin. I had a feeling it would be a bad idea

I did look at the hexagon - I'm well acquainted with Dana and the Mastercut gems website Unfortunately, I really have my heart set on a square or rectangular (if I can find one without the half/half extinction!) shape. It is a pretty gem though and no doubt is stunning in real life.

Will keep you posted on the progress. We are getting married in May, I'm really hoping to have an engagement ring before then!

 

[chrono]

If you think trying to find the right stone is tough, just learning to "read" rough is even tougher. Worse yet, you can't take back or undo a cut or return rough that turned out different from expectations. Even seasoned lapidaries are occasionally surprised by a rough or two.

 

[gemseeker2012]

Thanks, Chrono and Starzin. Buying rough does seem a bit extreme - will chalk it up to temporary sapphire-induced insanity...for now.

I did notice that there is an intergem show near me in the near future. Perhaps it will be worthwhile to take a look there.

 

[alisweber]

Ha, I feel your pain gemseeker. I've even glanced around at roughs because I'm having such a hard time finding the stone. Already spoken with about a dozen gemstone cutters from the recommended vendors on PS and none of them having anything that is an option right now =/

 

[minousbijoux]

Check to see if Vance Gems attends the Intergem near you. If they do, you could contact them in advance. I would love to see their stones, but they don't attend any shows near me.

 

[gemseeker2012]

Thanks, alisweber. I'll keep my eyes out for you, too. Are you definitely looking for a round or is color/origin more important than shape?

Minousbijoux - the vendors don't seem to be listed on the website, but I will see if I can email them to find out. Thanks for the tip! I've never been to one of these shows, so I'm guessing it will be an overwhelming experience!

 

[Starzin]

The Intergem sounds like a good idea - take a camera for plenty of pictures and notebook so you don't forget who the vendor is

This is the thread on buying rough with some interesting comments from lapidaries that I was trying to find last night https://www.pricescope.com/communit...h-blue-sapphire.179721/#post-3266542#p3266542

Also Flawless Facets has just got in some old Montana rough, I don't know if you have been in contact with him or if he will have what you want, but it can't hurt to let him know what you're looking for if you haven't made contact yet http://flawlessfacets.com/

 

[minousbijoux]

Have you seen this one?

 

[chrono]

Minou,
Is that zoning or is it somehow picking up some yellow/brown/green at the E/W edges?

 

[NKOTB]

I see Minou asked about one of the round ones of Dana's...I wondered if any of his new ones had caught your eye, too.

Also, I hope this isn't tacky...but since you sent #3 back, I wondered if you'd mind sharing where to?

 

[minousbijoux]

Minou,
Is that zoning or is it somehow picking up some yellow/brown/green at the E/W edges?

Good question! I think its a little of both. Not nearly as pronounced in this photo.

NKOTB: I was purposely unspecific as I was trying to be subtle and not point out where the stone was so the OP could have a chance to see it before someone tried to steal it out from under him...

Here is another photo of the stone

 

[distracts]

Only you can decide, with stone in hand, if this is going to bother you forever. My feeling is that it should give you joy every time you look down at your hand, if this isn't happening - no matter how beautiful it is otherwise - it probably isn't "your" stone. As hard as it might be to find "the one", I would encourage you not to settle for one that you will always wish was better in some way. It's a tough decision but It's probably coming down to "love it or leave it" and depends somewhat on how long you are prepared to look for your unusual requirement also.

I agree that only you can decide if it will bother you. My e-ring stone is native cut (not precision), and is a little wonky, it has a slight window (that closed up with setting), and has a tiny tiny either chip or surface-reaching inclusion on one edge (I have trouble spotting it with a 10x loupe even with the right lighting but I can feel it). I think for a lot of PSers it wouldn't make the cut as an e-ring stone. Buuuuut every time I look at it, I get a ridiculous grin on my face because I think it's just the prettiest thing ever, with the most perfect ocean blue! There were several stones I saw that I could have lived with, but none of the rest of them felt as compelling as this one. Idk, I don't really know how to describe it. But I think it's worth it to wait for the stone that makes your heart sing, or whatever.

I will be sending stone #3 back. As much as I adore the cut and color of the stone, it is a bit silky for my taste which really limits the sparkle factor - which is of high importance to me. I would have loved to keep this stone, but I don't think its the one for my engagement ring

May I ask where you got stone 3 from? It is probably out of my budget but I've been searching for a teal sapphire.

 

[NKOTB]

Minou,
Is that zoning or is it somehow picking up some yellow/brown/green at the E/W edges?

Good question! I think its a little of both. Not nearly as pronounced in this photo.

NKOTB: I was purposely unspecific as I was trying to be subtle and not point out where the stone was so the OP could have a chance to see it before someone tried to steal it out from under him...

Here is another photo of the stone

Oops!

I guess I figured since OP is looking for more of a square cut, and said s/he was well acquainted with Dana's site, I don't know...Just wasn't thinking, sorry...

 

[minousbijoux]

Oh good, now I feel better - didn't mean to come off all mean-like, just trying to protect against all the weird activity lately. Hopefully, Kid, you know I meant no harm...

 

[gemseeker2012]

Thanks Minous for trying to protect me! I had seen those rounds on Dana's website. NKOTB you were right to assume I am a frequent visitor there and Dana is well acquainted with my seemingly never ending search. I still do have my heart set on a square shape, but I may have to start considering other options.

I did send sapphire #4 back today. It was really hard to do, because it is as close as I've found to what I think I want. That said, I just couldn't get past the half/half "shadowing" (to use the preferred term of the vendor). It is a beautiful stone though, so I'm sure it will find a home very soon. If anyone is interested in it (and you haven't figured it out yet ) it was from Gemfix, cut by Andrew.

Stone #3 is still in my posession. I just love the cut and color of it so much - just wish it had less silk. Dana is being really gracious about letting me hold onto it, but I will likely ultimately send it back. I feel such a connection to this stone, I just wish I could keep it for some other purpose. Sadly, its a bit pricey for that.

I have something a little different coming in the mail one of these days which seems promising....will post some pictures when it arrives. And this weekend is my field trip to the gem show. I think this will be good as I am kind of starting to question my search for a light colored stone - I think it will be good to exposed to a wide spectrum.

Thanks for the support and input...stay tuned