Losing hope, need to vent

[LazyDaisy]

I am venting here because I don''t want to fight with BF and I am totally bummed out. After my problem with creepy guy went away, and after a couple of months of BF hinting that things might be changing soon, and also a few weeks of his hinting about getting me "somethiing sparkly" for Christmas, I was feeling pretty good about things the last few weeks. Tonight I found out the jewelry he wanted to get me for Christmas was a bracelet.

I told him I didn''t want him to get me any jewelry that I hadn''t at least taken a look at because I would feel really bad if he made a major investment like that and it wasn''t my taste. He got really bent out of shape about it and said I was being ungrateful, that I should appreciate a gift because he gave it to me. I said of course I would appreciate it, but I would feel bad for him spending so much money on something only for me to say "wasn''t that a nice thought." His comment makes me feel like the present is more about him than me, though. But we didn''t really fight about it, things went back to normal. Later we were joking around and I mentioned the ring in passing (for the first time in 6 months) and from his response I quickly realized there''s no point in even discussing it. I think I''m the most depressed because, originally, we were supposed to be getting married this month. And now here I am, without even the slightest hope of even being engaged in the foreseeable future.

Sorry, there''s no real point to this post, I just had to get out my frustration.

 

[mimzy]

i''m sorry you''re feeling down about it

what was it about his response that made you lose hope? if there was once an original plan to be married this month, then i don''t think it would be unreasonable of you to bring it up again, just to find out where he is at. he probably owes you that much at least.

 

[LazyDaisy]

Hi Mimzy,

His entire reaction-- body language especially-- made it seem like the idea of getting engaged was not only something he hadn''t thought about but something quite unattractive. I mean we were both kidding around, so I don''t think he thought I was seriously asking him about where things stood, but the fact that he played it off like it was a frightening thought and seemed to really mean that part made me realize he hasn''t even thought about it since our last... discussion. I changed the subject pretty quickly after that because we were in public and I didn''t want to get into an argument. I had planned to have a talk with him after the holidays were over if things had not progressed (I don''t want to fight and potentially ruin Christmas). I''m sure his explanation would be the same as it was the last time we talked about it, which is basically that "he''s not ready." I just don''t know why he''s been dropping so many hints lately about apartments, finances, asking what I like/don''t like about other women''s rings/weddings, etc. I guess I got ahead of myself and thought he was doing all that because he meant something by it.

Lesson learned... again.

Truth be told I''ve never gotten over the promise to be engaged last Christmas that never came true. I got all built up for a wedding... this month... and dreamed up exactly how it would be and how great it would be to finally be married, and now he''s totally flaked out on me. Sometimes I wish he''d just propose or break up with me, since I can''t bring myself to leave. After dinner we were going to play cards and he was rattling off games we could play, and he suggested Old Maid. I almost cried. I just want all this limbo to be over.

How have you managed to stay so sane?

 

[mimzy]

i can see how brutal that would be trying to get over that disappointment. i was pseudo promised a proposal by the end of summer, and obviously that didn't happen. I was positive that we would be married this winter (as in, in the next three months) and had really gotten my hopes set on it. and i didn't stay sane. the past few months have been BAD. and even though i know a proposal is coming in the next few weeks, i'm sort of 'meh' about it because truthfully, it's been such a roller coaster getting here that more than anything i am just relieved that it is going to be over.

he's definitely sending you mixed signals and you deserve some answers from him. even if he is saying in different ways that he's not ready, you still should have a talk with him to find out exactly where he's at and maybe get a new idea of a timeline. i know when my bf and i started dating i thought we'd be married within two years from the way he was talking....but it was just talk. it really sucks that your bf set you up like that, but i'm sure he didn't do it intentionally.

soooo...i'll say it again. talk to him! you don't have to be confrontational about it, but he might not even know the duress you've been under because of it. maybe he just needs some sort of grounding experience to really start his process of getting ready to be engaged. it's good not to pressure him, but it has to be fair to you also!


ETA: i'm not 'meh' about getting engaged, i really am excited....but not as excited as i was 12,8,6,4,2 months ago. i'm just really ready for this part of my life to be over. just wanted to clarify

 

[iheartscience]

I think you definitely need to have a serious talk with your boyfriend. How long are you going to wait around for him to "be ready"?

If you thought you would be getting married this month because of stuff he said to you what, last year or the year before, and you''re still not even engaged, I think you need to have that talk NOW, not after Christmas.

Don''t put your life on hold and waste years on this guy if he''s the type that''s never going to be ready. You need to take control of the future of your relationship and not just let him control it.

I would sit him down and say "I want to get married to you by this time next year. If you don''t want the same thing, fine, but let me know because I need to move on and find someone who does."

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 12/1/2007 11:51:47 PM
Author: LazyDaisy
His entire reaction-- body language especially-- made it seem like the idea of getting engaged was not only something he hadn't thought about but something quite unattractive.

Lazy Daisy ... I remember from a previous thread that you said you were both waiting for intimacy (and living together) until after your future wedding. How many years have you been together & "waiting"? Is this still true? If so, his visceral reaction of near repulsion at the idea of getting engaged would send off ONE MILLION RED FLAGS ... not only to the state of your relationship, but to his sexuality. I'm sorry to be so frank. Have you read Becky P.'s threads?

 

[mimzy]

Date: 12/2/2007 9:34:20 AM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 12/1/2007 11:51:47 PM

Author: LazyDaisy

His entire reaction-- body language especially-- made it seem like the idea of getting engaged was not only something he hadn't thought about but something quite unattractive.

Lazy Daisy ... I remember from a previous thread that you said you were both waiting for intimacy (and living together) until after your future wedding. How many years have you been together & 'waiting'? Is this still true? If so, his visceral reaction of near repulsion at the idea of getting engaged would send off ONE MILLION RED FLAGS ... not only to the state of your relationship, but to his sexuality. I'm sorry to be so frank. Have you read Becky P.'s threads?

this is silly. not all guys are such dogs that they will jump into getting engaged just because they will get to be *intimate* sooner. me and my SO are doing the same thing and i have no doubt about his sexuality - despite the fact that he has waited a long time to propose. just because his body language was interpreted as thinking it was 'quite unattractive' does not mean that he is repulsed by the idea of getting engaged. I know that my SO would have found getting engaged earlier this year "quite unattractive". all that means is that right now isn't a good time, not that they are disgusted with the idea of ever getting married.


if you had talked about it in the past enough to have expected to be engaged by now, you probably don't have much to worry about. of course anything is possible, but i wouldn't consider his slow pokeyness to be a red flag that he is gay just because he isn't getting any.

 

[justageek]

Mimzy, I don''t think decodelighted meant to imply that any guy who wasn''t willing to get engaged to someone who had agreed on chastity ''til marriage was gay. I think she just meant to point out that a visceral, physical, uncontrolled reaction to getting engaged (especially after a previous verbal, controlled discussion saying he wanted to get engaged) could have many reasons, one of them being sexuality. It''s a different thing to react to an idea with surprise and realize that you''re not ready for it now (with body language saying the same thing) than to react to an idea with surprise and a look of why-the-heck-would-I-want-to-do-that... and I have to disagree with you when you said, "if you had talked about it in the past enough to have expected to be engaged by now, you probably don''t have much to worry about."

LazyDaisy, if you''ve made your desires and needs from this relationship clear to your bf, it''s rude and inconsiderate of him to purposely act like these desires haven''t been expressed. I think you''re on the right track in planning to have another talk with him soon. His taking offense to you wanting to have some say in a gift that''s supposed to be making YOU happy is, IMHO, selfish (especially since you''ve made clear before what you want -- a ring -- and he ignored it already to get you a bracelet). A verbally abusive ex-bf used to do this all the time to me, and I''d go to bed every night feeling guilty for daring to even think that his judgment of what I would appreciate was wrong: "I can''t believe you don''t trust me! I trust you so much with blahblahblah and you don''t even care! I love you so much more than you do and I don''t know why I stay" but more manipulative... Not saying that this is the case with you, but what you bring up is one of the reasons why I realized that I wasn''t a partner with my ex -- I was someone who was supposed to be grateful for whatever he decided to throw my way. Bleh.

 

[brooklyngirl]

I must say I have been in a similar situation some months back. FF have been living together for almost 2 years now, and for the past year we''ve been having serious conversations regarding marriage, and our future. Up until a few months ago, I kept getting the same shpiel (spelling) about how he''s not ready yet, is not sure why, but suspects it''s because he thinks things are different when a couple gets married (IMHO I don''t think that marriage changes much for a longtime cohabibting couple in practice). There were many reasons that didn''t make any sense to me at all. So, based on tha background, a few points:

1. You need to decide when enough is enough. I''m not sure how long you''ve been together, but given that you once planned to be married by now, I would say you need to figure out whether that is what he wants, and if it''s still what you want. I know this feels really crummy (been there, done that, very grateful I found PS), and you''re saying you''re not ready/unable to leave, but at some point you will come to feel that you are ready to leave if you a proposal is not in the works -- you will feel completely at peace with whatever happens in this regard. It seems you are not ready yet, because perhaps you don''t feel you''ve tried everything to work things out, and come to a mutual agreement. After all marriage is something that is obviously important to you and you can''t have it with him, then you will have that with someone else, and this mentality is perfectly reasonable.

2. Regarding hints of something sprakly for Christmas -- come on! This has to be a huge part of your discussion with BF. As the topic of engagement isn''t new in the least bit, I would let him know, firmly, to watch what he says to you, and be sensitive to your feelings at this very difficult time. He''s dangling this carrot over your nose, and then teasing you about it. I understand that sometimes men aren''t as sensitive to the feelings of us LIWs as we''d like them to be -- they can''t forsee everything that will send us on our way wailing, BUT, hinting that he''ll get you something sparkly for Christmas, knowing that that you''re expecting an engagement ring should be obviously "tread carefully" territory, and is altogether cruel.

3. Telling you that you''re ungreatful because you''d like to be involved in picking out a expensive piece of jewelry given to you as a gift is just plain silly, and not thinking beyond the moment. There''s no telling whether you''ll like what he picked or not, so why wouldn''t he want to be sure that you like it. I''m not sure if he is saying that to be manipulative, but if I were you I would let him know that even hinting at such a thiing is unacceptable, hurtul, and completely uncalled for -- and if he really thinks that, then why does he even bother getting you anything? Who wants to walk on eggshells for the rest of their life just because you don''t want to be called ungreatful?

4. (last one, I promise) Why wait until after Christmas to have this talk with him? Honestly, are you going to be very happy during the holidays with this hanging over your head? If you''re unhappy, what exactly makes BF so special that he is spared all this? If nothing else, the talk might make you feel better, and you''ll be able to enjoy the holidays wanting to burst into tears anytime you encounter something even remotely related to marriage/lack thereof.

Sorry for the long post, but this strikes close to home for me, and I just had to get it all out!

Good luck to you, and I wish you the best for the holidays!

 

[LazyDaisy]

Date: 12/2/2007 9:34:20 AM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 12/1/2007 11:51:47 PM
Author: LazyDaisy
His entire reaction-- body language especially-- made it seem like the idea of getting engaged was not only something he hadn''t thought about but something quite unattractive.

Lazy Daisy ... I remember from a previous thread that you said you were both waiting for intimacy (and living together) until after your future wedding. How many years have you been together & ''waiting''? Is this still true? If so, his visceral reaction of near repulsion at the idea of getting engaged would send off ONE MILLION RED FLAGS ... not only to the state of your relationship, but to his sexuality. I''m sorry to be so frank. Have you read Becky P.''s threads?

Yes, we are still waiting, but that''s a mutual, religious/moral decision. I mean no disrespect to anyone, it''s just part of our belief system. That doesn''t make it any less frustrating, but we''ve both always known we wanted to wait until we were married. However, I never envisioned myself dating for years on end in my mid-twenties with no end in sight either...

But anyway, it has nothing to do with his sexuality, BELIEVE ME. It''s just the good old-fashioned Roman Catholic altar boy thing. I know for a fact that he''s not repulsed by sexual intimacy-- I think it''s "marriage" that scares him, even though he claims to want to get married... one day. It just so happens that we can''t be physically intimate without getting married. But I''d never want him to get married because he was, well, ok I''ll say it-- horny! I just can''t believe that at 25 he is content to plod along indefinitely, all the while insisting on abstinence.

I searched for Becky P earlier and read some of the threads but didn''t have a chance to get as far as I''d like. The thread I was reading was quite long and I''m not sure I''ll have time to read it all. Could you give a synopsis?

Thanks for the advice!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 12/3/2007 1:15:50 AM
Author: LazyDaisy

Yes, we are still waiting, but that''s a mutual, religious/moral decision. I mean no disrespect to anyone, it''s just part of our belief system. That doesn''t make it any less frustrating, but we''ve both always known we wanted to wait until we were married. However, I never envisioned myself dating for years on end in my mid-twenties with no end in sight either...

But anyway, it has nothing to do with his sexuality, BELIEVE ME. It''s just the good old-fashioned Roman Catholic altar boy thing. I know for a fact that he''s not repulsed by sexual intimacy-- I think it''s ''marriage'' that scares him, even though he claims to want to get married... one day. It just so happens that we can''t be physically intimate without getting married. But I''d never want him to get married because he was, well, ok I''ll say it-- horny! I just can''t believe that at 25 he is content to plod along indefinitely, all the while insisting on abstinence.

I searched for Becky P earlier and read some of the threads but didn''t have a chance to get as far as I''d like. The thread I was reading was quite long and I''m not sure I''ll have time to read it all. Could you give a synopsis?

Thanks for the advice!

From memory:

-She moved for him to one place without a commitment to marry. He did not want to live with her, for "religious" reasons, plus his family wouldn''t understand.
-He then got a job in NC, and wanted her to move AGAIN. Once more, with no engagement, and wanted to have separate residences.
-Everyone here saw red flags. She said she "knew" he loved her, etc etc etc.
-She moved with no commitments after saying she would stand firm, and also found her own place.
-She snooped (I think)
-She found out he was having relations with men.

 

[LazyDaisy]

Date: 12/3/2007 12:45:53 AM
Author: brooklyngirl
I must say I have been in a similar situation some months back. FF have been living together for almost 2 years now, and for the past year we''ve been having serious conversations regarding marriage, and our future. Up until a few months ago, I kept getting the same shpiel (spelling) about how he''s not ready yet, is not sure why, but suspects it''s because he thinks things are different when a couple gets married (IMHO I don''t think that marriage changes much for a longtime cohabibting couple in practice). There were many reasons that didn''t make any sense to me at all. So, based on tha background, a few points:

1. You need to decide when enough is enough. I''m not sure how long you''ve been together, but given that you once planned to be married by now, I would say you need to figure out whether that is what he wants, and if it''s still what you want. I know this feels really crummy (been there, done that, very grateful I found PS), and you''re saying you''re not ready/unable to leave, but at some point you will come to feel that you are ready to leave if you a proposal is not in the works -- you will feel completely at peace with whatever happens in this regard. It seems you are not ready yet, because perhaps you don''t feel you''ve tried everything to work things out, and come to a mutual agreement. After all marriage is something that is obviously important to you and you can''t have it with him, then you will have that with someone else, and this mentality is perfectly reasonable.

2. Regarding hints of something sprakly for Christmas -- come on! This has to be a huge part of your discussion with BF. As the topic of engagement isn''t new in the least bit, I would let him know, firmly, to watch what he says to you, and be sensitive to your feelings at this very difficult time. He''s dangling this carrot over your nose, and then teasing you about it. I understand that sometimes men aren''t as sensitive to the feelings of us LIWs as we''d like them to be -- they can''t forsee everything that will send us on our way wailing, BUT, hinting that he''ll get you something sparkly for Christmas, knowing that that you''re expecting an engagement ring should be obviously ''tread carefully'' territory, and is altogether cruel.

3. Telling you that you''re ungreatful because you''d like to be involved in picking out a expensive piece of jewelry given to you as a gift is just plain silly, and not thinking beyond the moment. There''s no telling whether you''ll like what he picked or not, so why wouldn''t he want to be sure that you like it. I''m not sure if he is saying that to be manipulative, but if I were you I would let him know that even hinting at such a thiing is unacceptable, hurtul, and completely uncalled for -- and if he really thinks that, then why does he even bother getting you anything? Who wants to walk on eggshells for the rest of their life just because you don''t want to be called ungreatful?

4. (last one, I promise) Why wait until after Christmas to have this talk with him? Honestly, are you going to be very happy during the holidays with this hanging over your head? If you''re unhappy, what exactly makes BF so special that he is spared all this? If nothing else, the talk might make you feel better, and you''ll be able to enjoy the holidays wanting to burst into tears anytime you encounter something even remotely related to marriage/lack thereof.

Sorry for the long post, but this strikes close to home for me, and I just had to get it all out!

Good luck to you, and I wish you the best for the holidays!

1. When is enough enough? I don''t know. If I have an internal deadline, I think it is May 15 (the end of spring term). I will be doing a grueling internship this summer that will leave 0 time for fun/romance, and gosh darnit I just don''t think I can wait until next fall! I used to think I couldn''t wait until now, but this time is different. Now I just feel so weighed down by all of it that I want the waiting and worrying to be over. I''ve stopped caring about the things I used to care about-- I don''t give a flip whether the proposal is romantic or about the ring (well, ok so I don''t want something totally ugly), I would elope if the Church allowed it, and to be honest I don''t even care if he proposes at all. I''d be ok with, "Let''s pick out a ring. Ok, I guess we''re engaged." I don''t care anymore. I am just so flipping sick of this that I could really care less about any of the girly romantic stuff. I just want to move on with my life... preferably wtih him in it, but you are right, at some point that part becomes optional.

2. Agreed. He has a history of being a grade A moron about that sort of thing. Like last year when he took me looking at rings, and then turned around and told me shortly thereafter that he wasn''t ready. When asked why he took me looking: "So you''d know I''m serious about it." WTF? 6 months later when I had an LIW breakdown he realized how much that affected me and has apologized profusely... but you can''t unring that kind of bell.

3. Agreed. It was particularly insensitive of him. My only thought is that he was frustrated that I wouldn''t tell him what I *did* want for Christmas, so here he goes and tries to pick something out for me and I nix it. I''m sure it was just anxiety with all the crowds shopping this time of year and the stress of potentially making a major purchase and all that. I don''t think he''s generally manipulative, so I''ll let him off the hook.

4. The last time we discussed the topic of our future explicitly was in June. We had the biggest fight I can remember ever having. I accused him of stringing me along with no intention of ever marrying me, and he told me that when I pressure him it makes him wonder why he wants to marry me at all. We didn''t talk for a week. Well, ok so we did talk, but it was strained at best. We''d call one another out of concern for how the other one was handling things, but we couldn''t really bring ourselves to have real conversation because we were both so hurt.

I told him when we made up that under no circumstances did I want the topic to even come up again this year. I was so miserable at the time I couldn''t imagine going through that again. I''m afraid that if I bring it up now, we''ll go through the same thing, and right before the holidays. He is planning a trip to visit me at my parents'' house during my winter break, and the last thing I need is for anything to erupt while he''s with my family. I just think it will be better-- and more productive-- to wait until January. Then I''ve made good on my promise and also made it possible to have the discussion in a less stressful time.




A long response for your long post, Brooklyngirl! Sorry to ramble so much, and thank you very much for your input! I hope your situation will improve soon too.

 

[LazyDaisy]

style="WIDTH: 99%; HEIGHT: 193px">Date: 12/3/2007 1:31:58 AM
Author: TravelingGal

From memory:

-She moved for him to one place without a commitment to marry. He did not want to live with her, for ''religious'' reasons, plus his family wouldn''t understand.
-He then got a job in NC, and wanted her to move AGAIN. Once more, with no engagement, and wanted to have separate residences.
-Everyone here saw red flags. She said she ''knew'' he loved her, etc etc etc.
-She moved with no commitments after saying she would stand firm, and also found her own place.
-She snooped (I think)
-She found out he was having relations with men.

Oh my!!! How awful for her! I have read up to the part where he may have been moving to NC... I feel like I have just skipped to the end of a really bad novel!

Thanks for the info... fortunately I''m 100% sure BF is a heterosexual... he''s just a heterosexual with incredible self-control

 

[Sha]

I''m sorry you''re going through this, LazyDaisy.

It really sucks when you don''t get the answer you''re hoping for, and worse if you feel you can''t talk about it openly without feelings getting hurt in the process. I hope that y''all will be able to have a frank, productive discussion in January. In the meantime, hopefully Christmas won''t be too rough on you emotionally - do you think you''ll be thinking about it, or will you be able to put aside those thoughts until January, and just focus on enjoying the time with your BF and family?

Regarding the jewellery purchase... maybe I"m different from most girls on PS...but I don''t see anything wrong with him wanting to get you a gift on his own. I think most fellars would feel that the gift had more sentimental value if ithey used their own effort and initiative to select something that they felt would be special for you... -instead of being told what to get. And I''m sure he wanted to surprise you as well. I would much prefer if my DH selected something on his own and surprised me, but then, I''m pretty laid back about jewellery overall. I know that most persons on PS prefer to have more control over the buying process, but not everybody understands why that kind of involvement in a gift purchase is necessary. I can understand why he might feel hurt, because he would feel that you were more concerned about the gift being completely ''to your taste'', than about the time and effort he took to select something ''from the heart''. Just saying that I understand where''s he coming from - and I don''t think he''s a moron for thinking that way.

Also, with regard to some other posts, I don''t think he''s necessarily ''bad'' for wanting to get you a bracelet when he knows you''re hoping for a ring. I know it would be disaapointing for you, but he''s obviously not ready to get engaged - for whatever reason, and that''s a completely separate issue that needs to be dealt with. It shouldn''t mean that any kind of other jewellery is off limits until that time, should it?

 

[janinegirly]

hi lazy,

i really feel for you--i rememeber waiting for my DH to propose I and it was so frustrating. I don''t know how i''d handle all the hot and cold signals you''re getting from your bf!! And to be promised before xmas, only to have to move that deadline 1.5 more years! i''d go bonkers and would be annoyed at a bracelet gift too (not b/c i don''t love gifts, but b/c it''d make me wonder why he isn''t saving for a ring!).

i think it''s interesting that you''re also waiting for intimacy...for many of us we hear that living with our bf''s etc, makes the wait longer since "why buy the cow", but apparently that isn''t always the case!

all i can say is your frustrations are justified..it''s crazy to have your hopes and life''s stages put on hold while he gets it together. i think it''s time to talk to him..and lay it on the line. Say you love him, have been amazingly patient, but this is starting to eat away at you and affect things--that you need more concrete answers on timeline and why he''s waiting and sending out mixed signals. BUT be prepared to walk away if he doesn''t come up with some solid answers. If this is what you want (to be enaged and preparing for marriage), you have to be sure, and stick by it and not accept something halfway.

PS how long have you been together and how old are you guys?

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 12/3/2007 1:42:21 AM
Author: LazyDaisy

4. The last time we discussed the topic of our future explicitly was in June. We had the biggest fight I can remember ever having. I accused him of stringing me along with no intention of ever marrying me, and he told me that when I pressure him it makes him wonder why he wants to marry me at all. We didn''t talk for a week. Well, ok so we did talk, but it was strained at best. We''d call one another out of concern for how the other one was handling things, but we couldn''t really bring ourselves to have real conversation because we were both so hurt.

I told him when we made up that under no circumstances did I want the topic to even come up again this year. I was so miserable at the time I couldn''t imagine going through that again. I''m afraid that if I bring it up now, we''ll go through the same thing, and right before the holidays. He is planning a trip to visit me at my parents'' house during my winter break, and the last thing I need is for anything to erupt while he''s with my family. I just think it will be better-- and more productive-- to wait until January. Then I''ve made good on my promise and also made it possible to have the discussion in a less stressful time.

Well...given that you''ve said "I don''t want to talk about this for the remainder of the year", I agree that the talk should wait until January. It would be unfair to be resentful to him for doing exactly what you asked him to do.

Come January, I think you need to sit down and have a *calm* talk. "This is not me pressuring you; this is me telling you where my head is at. I''m ready to embark on the rest of my life; I know that I want marriage and a family, and I know that I want to do it with you. What I don''t know is if you want to do that with me too, and whether or not you''re anywhere close to being ready. There is no ''wrong'' answer here; if you''re not ready and I am, then we''re just not in the same place. There is no ''fault'' in that. It does mean, though, that it''s time for me to think about dating other people who may be in the same place I am."

 

[anchor31]

You really, really need to have a serious talk with your boyfriend and sooner than later. You two needs to set timelines for marriage and engagement together and he has to stick to them. Don''t let him stall with the "surprise proposal" stuff... It''s your life too and you have the right to be involved in the decisions!!!

He didn''t stick to timelines he set before, which is a big ol'' red flag for me. It''s not just about him, it''s about you too. If he can''t respect that, there isn''t much you can do.

That said, I can understand that it may not be about sexuality. Some of my Christian friends are very surprised that my FI insisted I finished my bachelor''s before we married and that we''re having a 2-year engagement. We''ll have been together for 5 years when we''ll get married... So we certainly don''t believe in rushing so we can become intimate. We do live together though, but that''s a whole different story!

 

[risingsun]

Your bf knows that you are hoping to become engaged. To tease you with "something sparkly" for Christmas and have it turn out to be a bracelet, is just unkind and insensitive, IMO. I also think that a talk is in order, sooner rather than later. How will you feel receiving your bracelet instead of a ring. If you are OK to wait until after the holidays, that''s fine. I would have difficulty accepting any gift from him, under the circumstances. This business of "the more you ask, the longer it will take" is whiney and childish, in my book. It''s time he told you the truth, whatever it might be.

 

[janinegirly]

i agree a talk is inorder to discuss each of your immediate goals in this relationship. if he''s still not ready..i would think twice about whether this is heading in the right direction.

i don''t see much point in waiting until january, you''ve already kept quiet for several months and this isn''t a test of promises, it''s life and your future and you seem to have been extremely patient--why hold back on talking about it? that only benefits him in my opinion. time is too valuable to hold in thoughts and concerns about something important.

 

[zdrastvootya]

Date: 12/4/2007 1:02:54 AM
Author: risingsun
Your bf knows that you are hoping to become engaged. To tease you with ''something sparkly'' for Christmas and have it turn out to be a bracelet, is just unkind and insensitive, IMO. I also think that a talk is in order, sooner rather than later. How will you feel receiving your bracelet instead of a ring. If you are OK to wait until after the holidays, that''s fine. I would have difficulty accepting any gift from him, under the circumstances. This business of ''the more you ask, the longer it will take'' is whiney and childish, in my book. It''s time he told you the truth, whatever it might be.

Male point of view here. Our understanding is that jewelry (or something sparkly) is a nice Christmas gift. He''s not thinking about your engagement every moment of every day (like most LIW are). It sounds like you''ve given him dispensation not to think about engagement until next year. To interpret this as unkind seems a little unfair to me. If you want him to be sensitive on this topic, you probably need to tell him.

The gift-buying topic is often a sensitive topic for males. We feel, because we gave it, that it should have value for that reason. My modified view is the fact I give something means very little (I''m not bitter), and that I should probably just hand over cash. (I''m not bitter.) If I could buy something perfect (or very close to), my gift would be accepted but the criteria is very tight. (I''m not bitter.)

Z.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 12/4/2007 1:18:27 PM
Author: zdrastvootya

Date: 12/4/2007 1:02:54 AM
Author: risingsun
Your bf knows that you are hoping to become engaged. To tease you with ''something sparkly'' for Christmas and have it turn out to be a bracelet, is just unkind and insensitive, IMO. I also think that a talk is in order, sooner rather than later. How will you feel receiving your bracelet instead of a ring. If you are OK to wait until after the holidays, that''s fine. I would have difficulty accepting any gift from him, under the circumstances. This business of ''the more you ask, the longer it will take'' is whiney and childish, in my book. It''s time he told you the truth, whatever it might be.

Male point of view here. Our understanding is that jewelry (or something sparkly) is a nice Christmas gift. He''s not thinking about your engagement every moment of every day (like most LIW are). It sounds like you''ve given him dispensation not to think about engagement until next year. To interpret this as unkind seems a little unfair to me. If you want him to be sensitive on this topic, you probably need to tell him.

The gift-buying topic is often a sensitive topic for males. We feel, because we gave it, that it should have value for that reason. My modified view is the fact I give something means very little (I''m not bitter), and that I should probably just hand over cash. (I''m not bitter.) If I could buy something perfect (or very close to), my gift would be accepted but the criteria is very tight. (I''m not bitter.)

Z.

LOL I totally agree. When are women going to understand that MEN DON''T THINK LIKE WOMEN!!!!!

 

[Sha]

I agree as well. It''s good to have a male point of view in the forums. zdrastvootya, you should chime in more to help us learn how men think!

 

[risingsun]

Date: 12/4/2007 1:18:27 PM
Author: zdrastvootya

Date: 12/4/2007 1:02:54 AM
Author: risingsun
Your bf knows that you are hoping to become engaged. To tease you with 'something sparkly' for Christmas and have it turn out to be a bracelet, is just unkind and insensitive, IMO. I also think that a talk is in order, sooner rather than later. How will you feel receiving your bracelet instead of a ring. If you are OK to wait until after the holidays, that's fine. I would have difficulty accepting any gift from him, under the circumstances. This business of 'the more you ask, the longer it will take' is whiney and childish, in my book. It's time he told you the truth, whatever it might be.

Male point of view here. Our understanding is that jewelry (or something sparkly) is a nice Christmas gift. He's not thinking about your engagement every moment of every day (like most LIW are). It sounds like you've given him dispensation not to think about engagement until next year. To interpret this as unkind seems a little unfair to me. If you want him to be sensitive on this topic, you probably need to tell him.

The gift-buying topic is often a sensitive topic for males. We feel, because we gave it, that it should have value for that reason. My modified view is the fact I give something means very little (I'm not bitter), and that I should probably just hand over cash. (I'm not bitter.) If I could buy something perfect (or very close to), my gift would be accepted but the criteria is very tight. (I'm not bitter.)

Z.

Under other circumstances, I would totally agree with you. In this instance, the issue of becoming engaged is a touchy subject. The OP had hoped that she would be married by this time this year. Her BF has taken her ring shopping and then said..oops, not really ready. He has also said that the more she asks about their future, the less sure he becomes about committing to her. If the situation were different, I would say take your time and enjoy your bracelet. In this case, I think that she is being put off by a bf who is really unready to commit. I think they need to talk about it and see if they are on the same page in terms of their future. I don't think this thread is about choosing the right Christmas gift, but rather about whether/how this couple is going to remain a couple. YMMV.

 

[aljdewey]

i don''t see much point in waiting until january, you''ve already kept quiet for several months and this isn''t a test of promises, it''s life and your future and you seem to have been extremely patient--why hold back on talking about it?

Honestly, I do very much agree with LD''s reasons for waiting until January......and I agree with them.

She doesn''t want a blow-up at her parents
She doesn''t want to ruin their holidays
She feels that the discussion will be free of stress from other factors (holidays, emotional stuff, etc.)

I''m not a bury-your-head-in-the-sand advocate, as many of you know. BUT, I''m also not a fan of "take action for the sake of taking action" either.

She''s already waited several months now to have this discussion. It''s hard to imagine why waiting 24 more days should be such a problem.....especially when the climate for that type of intense discussion may IMPROVE after the holidays. (I don''t mean this will change the outcome; I simply mean that holiday stress won''t be a factor influencing the discussion).

I agree she needs to know fairly soon where she stands, but I don''t agree that she can''t survive another 24 days before getting there. She''s given some very thoughtful rationale for waiting until January, and I see the wisdom in it.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 12/4/2007 1:18:27 PM
Author: zdrastvootya

Male point of view here. Our understanding is that jewelry (or something sparkly) is a nice Christmas gift. He''s not thinking about your engagement every moment of every day (like most LIW are). It sounds like you''ve given him dispensation not to think about engagement until next year. To interpret this as unkind seems a little unfair to me. If you want him to be sensitive on this topic, you probably need to tell him.

The gift-buying topic is often a sensitive topic for males. We feel, because we gave it, that it should have value for that reason. My modified view is the fact I give something means very little (I''m not bitter), and that I should probably just hand over cash. (I''m not bitter.) If I could buy something perfect (or very close to), my gift would be accepted but the criteria is very tight. (I''m not bitter.)

LMAO.......Right on the money, Z, and I totally agree.

I really miss Codex and a few of the other guys who used to be around more because I think that PS needs MORE balance on the male perspective. I really think it''s helpful, and I''m glad/grateful for those of you that do provide it.

Don''t get too bitter on the gift thing, though, Z. It''s not just gifts from males that some people hold to high standards. Honestly, some of us have much less exacting standards.....LOL.

One year, my husband bought a gold necklace which I''d told him I wanted. He also, on his own initiative, stopped at an Italian specialty store and picked up a bunch of herbs and some infused oils. I think I was more touched by the specialty store gifts than I''ve been about any other thing he''s ever given me. Why? Because he knew that I enjoy cooking and thought I would like them.......that means he put THOUGHT into it.

I married a great guy!

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 12/4/2007 1:18:27 PM
Author: zdrastvootya
The gift-buying topic is often a sensitive topic for males. We feel, because we gave it, that it should have value for that reason. My modified view is the fact I give something means very little (I''m not bitter), and that I should probably just hand over cash. (I''m not bitter.) If I could buy something perfect (or very close to), my gift would be accepted but the criteria is very tight. (I''m not bitter.)

Check out this WSJ article
"Hey Honey Bunny, Stores Know What Your Wife Wants" and buckle up for BITTER!

The premise: savvy businesses are cutting down on these awkward gimmie-gimmie conversations by stepping in as a middle man. Outlook for profits: huge.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 12/4/2007 3:27:50 PM
Author: aljdewey


One year, my husband bought a gold necklace which I''d told him I wanted. He also, on his own initiative, stopped at an Italian specialty store and picked up a bunch of herbs and some infused oils. I think I was more touched by the specialty store gifts than I''ve been about any other thing he''s ever given me. Why? Because he knew that I enjoy cooking and thought I would like them.......that means he put THOUGHT into it.

I married a great guy!

Agree!

I think we as women need to do a better job at appreciating those "quieter" thoughts that men often have. Since I''ve been preggo, I have not been able to eat fish, which of course contain "essential" omega-3 for baby development. What I can eat though, are eggs...lots of em. So when TGuy and I went to TJ''s, I was so touched to see that he had put a dozen Omega-3 eggs in the cart (I didn''t even know they existed). Just him thinking of what is best for me, and I was really pleased.

Sorry for the hijack, Lazy Daisy!

 

[janinegirly]

while i agree men think v. differently than women..i still think you can''t take that as a way to justfiy everything. I mean a guy can''t be that clueless! In this case it appears that they''ve been talking about engagement for some time (even though the topic may be off the table--i''m sure both realize it''s out there...esp if their last huge fight was over it), she''s waiting, it''s the holiday season, he went to a jewelry store..none of that sparked a thought in his head that connected the dots to engagement or that might serve as a reminder?

i''m just sayin''...

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 12/4/2007 4:19:27 PM
Author: janinegirly
while i agree men think v. differently than women..i still think you can''t take that as a way to justfiy everything. I mean a guy can''t be that clueless! In this case it appears that they''ve been talking about engagement for some time (even though the topic may be off the table--i''m sure both realize it''s out there...esp if their last huge fight was over it), she''s waiting, it''s the holiday season, he went to a jewelry store..none of that sparked a thought in his head that connected the dots to engagement or that might serve as a reminder?

i''m just sayin''...

YES they CAN.

I only say this because I have been told I think like a guy in some respects and I KNOW I can be COMPLETELY clueless. Serious Stupid Stratosphere.

Women see dots and we say connect ''em. Men see them and they want to shoot at them with their video game controllers or somethin.

Seriously, it''s a different thought process. Women think it''s mean and cruel that he''s getting her a bracelet because it''s a tease and a letdown. Well maybe HE thinks that after all this engagement talk, it''s something nice to make it up to her? Meaning since they can''t get engaged since he''s not ready, he''d still like to buy her something special? Can you SEE how this works? It''s not all about what we''re thinkin'' ladies!!!

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 12/4/2007 4:19:27 PM
Author: janinegirly
while i agree men think v. differently than women..i still think you can't take that as a way to justfiy everything. I mean a guy can't be that clueless! In this case it appears that they've been talking about engagement for some time (even though the topic may be off the table--i'm sure both realize it's out there...esp if their last huge fight was over it), she's waiting, it's the holiday season, he went to a jewelry store..none of that sparked a thought in his head that connected the dots to engagement or that might serve as a reminder?

i'm just sayin'...

Who said it should be a way to 'justify everything'?

No one said that it justifies anything; just that the differences in how men/women think DOES affect our relationships and it needs to be recognized and factored in to how we speak to one another and what we expect from each other.

So you really don't think that differences in thinking account for lack of clarity in expectations from one another, huh? Interesting.

According to you, "he can't be that clueless"......and you think it should be pretty clear that 1) her wanting engagement + 2) holiday season + 3) jewelry store should automatically equal in his mind "she's expecting a ring"?

Let's take a look from the other side. 1) he didn't keep engagement promise last year, 2) they had a huge fight earlier this year when they talked about marriage, 3) he flat out told her then he's not ready, and 4) SHE said no more talking about it for remainder of this year. So, wouldn't you expect her to 'connect the dots' and logically arrive at 'proposal isn't on the horizon'?

FYI, A man reading this might think "she can't be that clueless.....he's made it pretty clear he's not ready."

You may not want to give it any accord, but men and women DO think differently, and it most certainly does affect relationships. People are not mindreaders. They may know you want something, sure; they may not know how urgent it's becoming, how quickly you expect it, or how big a deal is it to you.

If a relationship is serious enough to include the possibility of marriage, it should be secure enough to open your mouth and TELL HIM what you want/how you feel. Games are for children, not for serious relationships.

If he does happen to 'connect the dots' properly, that's a bonus, but it should never be an expectation. My parents have been married for 43 years, and even they still don't 'connect the dots' the same way many times.