Losing hope, need to vent

[zdrastvootya]

Date: 12/4/2007 3:14:25 PM
Author: risingsun

Date: 12/4/2007 1:18:27 PM
Author: zdrastvootya

Date: 12/4/2007 1:02:54 AM
Author: risingsun
Your bf knows that you are hoping to become engaged. To tease you with ''something sparkly'' for Christmas and have it turn out to be a bracelet, is just unkind and insensitive, IMO. I also think that a talk is in order, sooner rather than later. How will you feel receiving your bracelet instead of a ring. If you are OK to wait until after the holidays, that''s fine. I would have difficulty accepting any gift from him, under the circumstances. This business of ''the more you ask, the longer it will take'' is whiney and childish, in my book. It''s time he told you the truth, whatever it might be.

Male point of view here. Our understanding is that jewelry (or something sparkly) is a nice Christmas gift. He''s not thinking about your engagement every moment of every day (like most LIW are). It sounds like you''ve given him dispensation not to think about engagement until next year. To interpret this as unkind seems a little unfair to me. If you want him to be sensitive on this topic, you probably need to tell him.

The gift-buying topic is often a sensitive topic for males. We feel, because we gave it, that it should have value for that reason. My modified view is the fact I give something means very little (I''m not bitter), and that I should probably just hand over cash. (I''m not bitter.) If I could buy something perfect (or very close to), my gift would be accepted but the criteria is very tight. (I''m not bitter.)

Z.

Under other circumstances, I would totally agree with you. In this instance, the issue of becoming engaged is a touchy subject. The OP had hoped that she would be married by this time this year. Her BF has taken her ring shopping and then said..oops, not really ready. He has also said that the more she asks about their future, the less sure he becomes about committing to her. If the situation were different, I would say take your time and enjoy your bracelet. In this case, I think that she is being put off by a bf who is really unready to commit. I think they need to talk about it and see if they are on the same page in terms of their future. I don''t think this thread is about choosing the right Christmas gift, but rather about whether/how this couple is going to remain a couple. YMMV.

Well, I think most males would agree, taking your girlfriend ring-shopping and then deciding you''re not ready is dumb. Really dumb. Buddy, let''s get our act together.

The knee-jerk reaction of the more you ask the longer you wait, is probably more jerk than knee and something we men should refrain from. You need an agreed to timeline.

In hindsight, I threw out a 2 years of dating timeline without paying too much attention. She didn''t say too much about it after that statement - she seemed satisfied with this answer. I had no idea that a proposal was expected when we went on a roadtrip around the 2 year mark (I being clueless male). I proposed a few months later - I think by then Mrs. Z. put it out of her head, since I completely missed the 2 year mark. She was very surprised when it happened (and beforehand, pretty resistant to my efforts to maneuvre her to the proposal spot).

I''m pretty much over the gift giving thing. The important thing is I''m not bitter

Z.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 12/4/2007 5:27:40 PM
Author: aljdewey

According to you, 'he can't be that clueless'......and you think it should be pretty clear that 1) her wanting engagement + 2) holiday season + 3) jewelry store should automatically equal in his mind 'she's expecting a ring'?

Let's take a look from the other side. 1) he didn't keep engagement promise last year, 2) they had a huge fight earlier this year when they talked about marriage, 3) he flat out told her then he's not ready, and 4) SHE said no more talking about it for remainder of this year. So, wouldn't you expect her to 'connect the dots' and logically arrive at 'proposal isn't on the horizon'?

FYI, A man reading this might think 'she can't be that clueless.....he's made it pretty clear he's not ready.'

LOL...didn't think of it that way, but VERY true. Maybe sometimes women are only good at connecting the dots we want to see.

Don't assume anything. I tell TGuy that all the time. Makes for easier living, but boo boo's do happen.

ETA, just to show you how simple a missed dot can be, the other day after my accident, I asked if TGuy could make me a tea since he had the kettle on. He said, I'll do it in a minute. Several minutes passed (he was watching football) so I got up to it myself. He got irritated and said he would do it when it was halftime (2 minutes were left on the clock when I told me he'd do it, but obviously it goes longer than 2 minutes). I said, oh, well, I didn't know that. He said you were LOOKING at the TV. I ASSUMED you saw the clock and knew halftime was coming up.

I raised an eyebrow and told his a$$ not to ASSUME anything and while I was LOOKING at the TV, I was not WATCHING it and was completely zoned out. He actually knows I do this and couldn't respond with anything else other than a lame "sorry." Hmph.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 12/4/2007 5:33:16 PM
Author: zdrastvootya

In hindsight, I threw out a 2 years of dating timeline without paying too much attention. She didn''t say too much about it after that statement - she seemed satisfied with this answer. I had no idea that a proposal was expected when we went on a roadtrip around the 2 year mark (I being clueless male). I proposed a few months later - I think by then Mrs. Z. put it out of her head, since I completely missed the 2 year mark. She was very surprised when it happened (and beforehand, pretty resistant to my efforts to maneuvre her to the proposal spot).

BINGO. Case in point. Point-set-match.

Thanks, Z......perfectly illustrated.

 

[zdrastvootya]

Date: 12/4/2007 4:19:27 PM
Author: janinegirly
while i agree men think v. differently than women..i still think you can''t take that as a way to justfiy everything. I mean a guy can''t be that clueless! In this case it appears that they''ve been talking about engagement for some time (even though the topic may be off the table--i''m sure both realize it''s out there...esp if their last huge fight was over it), she''s waiting, it''s the holiday season, he went to a jewelry store..none of that sparked a thought in his head that connected the dots to engagement or that might serve as a reminder?

i''m just sayin''...

As others have stated, yes, we can be that clueless. Even after getting engaged & married, and being on this board, the dots still seem a little far apart.

Z.

 

[aljdewey]

P.S. I''m just glad Z isn''t bitter! Whew!

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 12/4/2007 5:40:38 PM
Author: zdrastvootya

As others have stated, yes, we can be that clueless. Even after getting engaged & married, and being on this board, the dots still seem a little far apart.

Z.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!


DOT DOT DOT

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 12/4/2007 5:40:38 PM
Author: zdrastvootya

Date: 12/4/2007 4:19:27 PM
Author: janinegirly
while i agree men think v. differently than women..i still think you can''t take that as a way to justfiy everything. I mean a guy can''t be that clueless! In this case it appears that they''ve been talking about engagement for some time (even though the topic may be off the table--i''m sure both realize it''s out there...esp if their last huge fight was over it), she''s waiting, it''s the holiday season, he went to a jewelry store..none of that sparked a thought in his head that connected the dots to engagement or that might serve as a reminder?

i''m just sayin''...

As others have stated, yes, we can be that clueless. Even after getting engaged & married, and being on this board, the dots still seem a little far apart.

Z.

Ha, and sometimes I think we women expect men to connect the dots without even throwing them a damn pencil. It''s like some horrible game of "twister" that we make men play.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 12/4/2007 5:40:38 PM
Author: zdrastvootya

As others have stated, yes, we can be that clueless. Even after getting engaged & married, and being on this board, the dots still seem a little far apart.

Here, Z.........let me help you with those dots a bit......

Aljdewey hangs out on a diamond board........Al loves diamonds.......Al thinks Z is a smart, funny guy.....Al would like a small diamond for Christmas.......

CONNECT THE DOTS CONCLUSION: You should send Aljdewey a small diamond! (This is the one I think you should come to, by the way!)

Possible alternate dot-connection conclusion: It might be time for lemon pie!

Second possible alternate dot-connection: Al has gone off her rocker and is asking random guys on a diamond forum to send her stones, which is SO not happening!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 12/4/2007 5:46:38 PM
Author: aljdewey




Here, Z.........let me help you with those dots a bit......

Aljdewey hangs out on a diamond board........Al loves diamonds.......Al thinks Z is a smart, funny guy.....Al would like a small diamond for Christmas.......

CONNECT THE DOTS CONCLUSION: You should send Aljdewey a small diamond! (This is the one I think you should come to, by the way!)

Possible alternate dot-connection conclusion: It might be time for lemon pie!

Second possible alternate dot-connection: Al has gone off her rocker and is asking random guys on a diamond forum to send her stones, which is SO not happening!

AHEM, I don''t think it''s that cut and dry.

Al is saying that she wants a "small" diamond. Al is a woman. Women don''t say what they want. She must mean a large diamond.

But how large is large? Must go research. After the football game is over.

Oh sh*t? Is it new year already? Damn, forgot to buy that diamond. Wonder if some kitchen mitts will do.

New Years means Superbowl is around the corner! TV''s on sale! Must buy bigger TV. Wonder if Al will be OK with that.

What''s this about dots?

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 12/4/2007 5:18:22 PM
Author: TravelingGal

I have been told I think like a guy in some respects.....

Yep - me too. In fact, so MUCH so that for my first nine months on this board, based on nothing but the content of my posts, everyone here thought I WAS a guy!

LMAO!

 

[janinegirly]

alj- my post was somewhat in jest and not meant to be taken so literally.

of course i get that men and women think differently--i waited 3 yrs for a man to propose precisely for that reason. we ended up where we were meant to be, which is why i waited despite many people telling me to throw in the towel already. however i also talked about it with him and expressed my frustrations with waiting. A LOT. Sometimes it's a fine line between interpreting a man's clumsiness for genuine cluelessness or having it in fact be laziness due to wanting to avoid some tough questions (possible incompatibility). I guess that's why honest communication is so key.

my only point is yes, each party must be sensitive to the other's style and view, and accept we are different creatures so to speak, but not to the point of justifying behaviour b/c we want a certain conclusion. same reason a guy shouldn't let a woman off the hook all the time for being "moody". sometimes yes, that's the reason, other times..she needs a wake up call. z

i agree ultimately lazydaisy needs to TALK to her man and express why she was disappointed, that it wasn't the gift (which is wonderful), but just disappointment that it wasn't an e-ring, which is really disappointment in not starting the next stage in their life togehter, and not really about the material gift. (i'm guessing). personally i wouldn't wait till january, b/c i'd want to talk about it and express how i felt now (which might be diff than how one felt in june). but that's just my opinion..either way, it's not that far away.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 12/4/2007 5:52:30 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 12/4/2007 5:18:22 PM
Author: TravelingGal

I have been told I think like a guy in some respects.....

Yep - me too. In fact, so MUCH so that for my first nine months on this board, based on nothing but the content of my posts, everyone here thought I WAS a guy!

LMAO!

Oh, you don''t think your NAME had anything to do with it, AL?

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 12/4/2007 5:52:32 PM
Author: janinegirly
alj- my post was somewhat in jest and not meant to be taken so literally.

of course i get that men and women think differently--i waited 3 yrs for a man to propose precisely for that reason. we ended up where we were meant to be, which is why i waited despite many people telling me to throw in the towel already. however i also talked about with him. A LOT. Sometimes it''s a fine line reading between interpreting a man''s clumsiness for genuine cluelessness or having it in fact be laziness due to wanting to avoid some tough questions (possible incompatibility).

my only point is yes, each party must be sensitive to the other''s style and view, and except we are different creaturs so to speak, but not to the point of justifying behaviour b/c we want a certain conclusion. same reason a guy shouldn''t let a woman off the hook all the time for being ''moody''. sometimes yes, that''s the reason, other times..she needs a wake up call. z

i agree ultimately lazydaisy needs to TALK to her man and express why she was disappointed, that it wasn''t the gift (which is wonderful), but just disappointment that it wasn''t an e-ring, which is really disappointment in not starting the next stage in their life togehter, and not really about the material gift. (i''m guessing). personally i wouldn''t wait till january, b/c i''d want to talk about it and express how i felt now (which might be diff than how one felt in june). but that''s just my opinion..either way, it''s not that far away.

Janine, I''m sure it was somewhat in jest, but that''s the funny thing about jest.....it often strikes very close to the non-jest, yanno?

I get what you''re saying about the fine line, truly I do......but please don''t underestimate someone''s ability to be THAT clueless. It happens, believe me.

We don''t know this guy; we only know what LD has said about him. So, suggesting it''s not possible for him to be THAT clueless (when it really IS possible) is tantamount to saying ''of course he knows better'', which most likely means ''he knows, and he''s jerking you around''.

I''d not want to make that suggestion when it''s entirely possible that HE IS that clueless......and when he may very rightfully think that engagement is on her long-term mind but not on her short-term list of expectations. Doing that can wind her up and make HER jump to connect dots.....which she shouldn''t.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 12/4/2007 5:54:26 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Oh, you don't think your NAME had anything to do with it, AL?

Geez, T-Gal, you aren't very good with this 'connect the dots' thang either, are you?

"Al" can be short for Alice, Alicia, Alana, Allison......shall I go on?

Funny enough, I never said my name was "Al".....I was careful to call myself Aljdewey. Others began calling me Al, and then it was only a way to shorten typing my screen name. However, most people still didn't seem to infer it was 'my name' at the time. That surprised me; I figured most people would assume it was Al J. Dewey....and most didn't, I later learned.

Incidentally, I picked Al precisely because it isn't gender-identifying. I find that peoples' expectations have a way of coloring their interpretations' of another's comments, so my choice was an intentional move to discourage that.

It worked splendidly.......until that rascal SHERWOOD let the cat out of the bag.....or the "gal out of the Al", so to speak! LOL (https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/mara-check-your-pm.8737/). Now THAT was hysterical!

 

[HollyS]

Date: 12/4/2007 1:18:27 PM
Author: zdrastvootya

Date: 12/4/2007 1:02:54 AM
Author: risingsun
Your bf knows that you are hoping to become engaged. To tease you with ''something sparkly'' for Christmas and have it turn out to be a bracelet, is just unkind and insensitive, IMO. I also think that a talk is in order, sooner rather than later. How will you feel receiving your bracelet instead of a ring. If you are OK to wait until after the holidays, that''s fine. I would have difficulty accepting any gift from him, under the circumstances. This business of ''the more you ask, the longer it will take'' is whiney and childish, in my book. It''s time he told you the truth, whatever it might be.

Male point of view here. Our understanding is that jewelry (or something sparkly) is a nice Christmas gift. He''s not thinking about your engagement every moment of every day (like most LIW are). It sounds like you''ve given him dispensation not to think about engagement until next year. To interpret this as unkind seems a little unfair to me. If you want him to be sensitive on this topic, you probably need to tell him.

The gift-buying topic is often a sensitive topic for males. We feel, because we gave it, that it should have value for that reason. My modified view is the fact I give something means very little (I''m not bitter), and that I should probably just hand over cash. (I''m not bitter.) If I could buy something perfect (or very close to), my gift would be accepted but the criteria is very tight. (I''m not bitter.)

Z.

Yup. A gift, especially of jewelry, is very important in a man''s eyes. They love to surprise with these gifts, and DO NOT want to go buy exactly what has been pointed out by their GF, FI, or wife. Most men, if their relationship has been fairly long with the woman, will have a good idea of their lady''s likes and dislikes; and should be given free reign in the gift giving department. So STOP complaining -- everybody -- about not liking a gift from your guy. As you can tell from the post above, you WILL hurt him by even seeming to be unappreciative of his gift. He considers this to be a wonderfully romantic gesture on his part, and feels very vulnerable doing this, and so needs reassurance from you that you love him for it.

As for the would-be-engagement . . . after six years and numerous ''discussions'', it''s time to have a very serious talk. And, you need to be ready and willing to walk away if the answer is "I''m not ready, and I don''t know when I will be", or something even more noncommittal. That being said, since when is being unmarried in your mid-twenties earmarking you for *old maidhood*? And if you''ve been together six years, have you ever dated anyone else seriously? If you haven''t, what makes you think YOU are ready for marriage? Especially with this guy?

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 12/4/2007 6:07:12 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 12/4/2007 5:54:26 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Oh, you don''t think your NAME had anything to do with it, AL?

Geez, T-Gal, you aren''t very good with this ''connect the dots'' thang either, are you?

''Al'' can be short for Alice, Alicia, Alana, Allison......shall I go on?

Hmph, I didn''t have to connect the dots because there was NO DOT after "Al" which means it stands for nothing. Just Al.

But it could also stand for Albert, Alberto, Alfonso, Allan, Almighty, AllHellBrokeLoose, etc.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 12/4/2007 5:27:40 PM
Author: aljdewey


If a relationship is serious enough to include the possibility of marriage, it should be secure enough to open your mouth and TELL HIM what you want/how you feel. Games are for children, not for serious relationships.

This is actually an issue I have with many LIW posts I''ve seen. I never could figure out why women won''t just ask for what they want or say what they want/how they feel. I''m guilty of wanting my guy to be a psychic, but it''s usually for little things. But in relation to bigger issues, if I realize he''s not getting it, I just say it. Dropping hints doesn''t make sense when it''s a serious topic. It just makes you more frustrated while he sits there wondering what the hell is wrong with you (if he notices at all).

 

[risingsun]

LD~if your guy is as clueless as some have suggested, than please buy him a clue for Christmas. Do you think he's clueless about your feelings and desires? If so , let him know. Do you think he is as dumb as a box of rocks, supply him with the necessary rocks. If he is one brick short of a load, than you know what to do....If you think he does know what he's doing, than that is something different. What are you dealing with? A loveable, clueless guy, a guy that is avoiding making a commitment to you, or something yet undiscovered? Before my husband proposed, we didn't play any games. It was a second marriage for both of us and we were candid from the beginning. I have little tolerance for game-playing, if that is what is going on here. Hopefully, it is not. It's been my experience that couples who want to marry take steps in that directon. The pace may vary, but the process and goal should be mutual. I have to say, that simply saying that "he" or "she" is clueless is a bit bothersome. Use your words!! And a hearty "thanks" to those who don't. It keeps my practice thriving

 

[Ellen]

Date: 12/4/2007 5:43:19 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Ha, and sometimes I think we women expect men to connect the dots without even throwing them a damn pencil. It''s like some horrible game of ''twister'' that we make men play.

I''d gladly throw every single one of them a pencil if it would help. Preferably dartboard style.....

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 12/4/2007 6:18:44 PM
Author: HollyS

.....after six years and numerous 'discussions', it's time to have a very serious talk. And, you need to be ready and willing to walk away if the answer is 'I'm not ready, and I don't know when I will be', or something even more noncommittal. That being said, since when is being unmarried in your mid-twenties earmarking you for *old maidhood*? And if you've been together six years, have you ever dated anyone else seriously? If you haven't, what makes you think YOU are ready for marriage? Especially with this guy?

Ok, I have to admit that I was more engrossed in the particulars and missed this set of details......so I went back to read an older thread, too. That thread leads me to believe at least one of you will still be in 'school' next year too......is that right?

He's only in his mid-20s???? And you're essentially his only serious girlfriend? And you can't understand why he's not ready to get married? Honey, no wonder!

I gotta agree with Holly......if you haven't dated anyone else seriously, why would you think you're ready either? I know, I know.....there are people ready in their early 20s. Right.....but that's WAY the exception these days, and there's nothing wrong with him being unsure and unready given the circumstances.

A footnote: I went back and read a thread you started about 5 weeks ago.....snippets as follows:

"We are almost to the 60 days of Christmas.........I am desperately hoping that Christmas will be my time, even though I know in my head it probably isn't happening. He knows I have always imagined the perfect proposal being during the holidays-- Christmas lights and such. I just think it would be super romantic, even if it isn't all that original. So I don't know if I should start hinting again in the hopes that it will happen, ........... I'm trying not to get my hopes up, because last Christmas was already a let down, but something inside me just wants to be hopeful."

I'm getting a much clearer picture now. He told you in June that he's not ready, so you knew it likely wasn't happening, but because you want a holiday proposal and it's the holidays, you hoped that would compel him to act anyway or somehow make him ready. And now, you're disappointed because his intended gift is a bracelet.

Hinting can't make someone ready when he isn't. He's not ready.....that's the reality. What you do about that reality is up to you. If you decide you really are ready, you can either invest more time waiting/hoping..........or you can decide to apply your time toward getting to know others who are also ready NOW.

 

[Sha]

Date: 12/4/2007 4:19:27 PM
Author: janinegirly
while i agree men think v. differently than women..i still think you can't take that as a way to justfiy everything. I mean a guy can't be that clueless! In this case it appears that they've been talking about engagement for some time (even though the topic may be off the table--i'm sure both realize it's out there...esp if their last huge fight was over it), she's waiting, it's the holiday season, he went to a jewelry store..none of that sparked a thought in his head that connected the dots to engagement or that might serve as a reminder?


i'm just sayin'...

I don't think he bought the bracelet because he's 'clueless'... he's just not READY to buy the ring.

 

[risingsun]

Date: 12/5/2007 12:26:25 AM
Author: Sha

Date: 12/4/2007 4:19:27 PM
Author: janinegirly
while i agree men think v. differently than women..i still think you can't take that as a way to justfiy everything. I mean a guy can't be that clueless! In this case it appears that they've been talking about engagement for some time (even though the topic may be off the table--i'm sure both realize it's out there...esp if their last huge fight was over it), she's waiting, it's the holiday season, he went to a jewelry store..none of that sparked a thought in his head that connected the dots to engagement or that might serve as a reminder?


i'm just sayin'...

I don't think he bought the bracelet because he's 'clueless'... he's just not READY to buy the ring.

ITA. This guy is not clueless, he's not ready

The guy may not know what bracelet she would prefer, but unless he is lacking a few brain cells, he has not forgotten that they have looked at rings and spoken of an engagement. I'm just not willing to give men a pass by saying that they don't know any better. They do know better, but they're are just not talking about it. Why? To avoid emotional confrontations. They'd rather walk on hot coals--just ask them. Although, some would prefer a sharp stick in the eye

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 12/5/2007 1:08:10 AM
Author: risingsun

ITA. This guy is not clueless, he''s not ready

The guy may not know what bracelet she would prefer, but unless he is lacking a few brain cells, he has not forgotten that they have looked at rings and spoken of an engagement. I''m just not willing to give men a pass by saying that they don''t know any better. They do know better, but they''re are just not talking about it. Why? To avoid emotional confrontations. They''d rather walk on hot coals--just ask them. Although, some would prefer a sharp stick in the eye

Gosh, I hope that''s not what folks infer from this thread.....that men get a pass for not knowing any better!

For the record, I don''t think either one of them are clueless.

He knows she''s hoping/waiting for an engagement, and I''m sure he hasn''t forgotten they looked at rings; but he ALSO knows he told her pretty definitively in June that he wasn''t ready.

She knows he''s not ready, and she already knows in her heart that a proposal wasn''t likely forthcoming now, but she chooses to hope he''ll come through anyway.

Where I think he may be clueless: because he thinks she shouldn''t be remotely expecting a proposal, he likely doesn''t foresee why a different jewelry gift might feel like salt in the wound.

 

[janinegirly]

Date: 12/5/2007 1:08:10 AM
Author: risingsun

Date: 12/5/2007 12:26:25 AM
Author: Sha

Date: 12/4/2007 4:19:27 PM
Author: janinegirly
while i agree men think v. differently than women..i still think you can't take that as a way to justfiy everything. I mean a guy can't be that clueless! In this case it appears that they've been talking about engagement for some time (even though the topic may be off the table--i'm sure both realize it's out there...esp if their last huge fight was over it), she's waiting, it's the holiday season, he went to a jewelry store..none of that sparked a thought in his head that connected the dots to engagement or that might serve as a reminder?


i'm just sayin'...

I don't think he bought the bracelet because he's 'clueless'... he's just not READY to buy the ring.

ITA. This guy is not clueless, he's not ready

The guy may not know what bracelet she would prefer, but unless he is lacking a few brain cells, he has not forgotten that they have looked at rings and spoken of an engagement. I'm just not willing to give men a pass by saying that they don't know any better. They do know better, but they're are just not talking about it. Why? To avoid emotional confrontations. They'd rather walk on hot coals--just ask them. Although, some would prefer a sharp stick in the eye

that's the point i was trying to make..

also agree with others that talking is pretty central to all this. i don't get the" bottle it up unitl january to meet your part of the deal" philosophy, but then i'm not good at holding stuff in!

however i will admit to not really following this story before this thread so didn't realize they were only in their mid 20's and still trying to finish off school etc. seems clear he is not ready. if she is and starting to boil over..then well, time to TALK and make some decisions on her part. hopefully she'll check back in soon!

 

[Mara]

Date: 12/5/2007 12:26:25 AM
Author: Sha

Date: 12/4/2007 4:19:27 PM
Author: janinegirly
while i agree men think v. differently than women..i still think you can''t take that as a way to justfiy everything. I mean a guy can''t be that clueless! In this case it appears that they''ve been talking about engagement for some time (even though the topic may be off the table--i''m sure both realize it''s out there...esp if their last huge fight was over it), she''s waiting, it''s the holiday season, he went to a jewelry store..none of that sparked a thought in his head that connected the dots to engagement or that might serve as a reminder?


i''m just sayin''...

I don''t think he bought the bracelet because he''s ''clueless''... he''s just not READY to buy the ring.

ditto Sha''s thoughts here...if he goes into a jewelry store knowing that she''s expecting something like a ring and gets a bracelet, he is on a diff timeline. and quite possibly it''s his ''original'' timeline and she is just trying to up it to fit what she wants.

i''ve said this to a lot of LIW''s, but enjoy the time before your engagement. if you are sure it''s coming and have discussed it and trust your man, just enjoy your relationship and don''t get hooked into acting all crazy-like because men do not want to ask crazy women to spend the rest of their life with them!!!

 

[HollyS]

Date: 12/4/2007 10:42:37 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 12/4/2007 6:18:44 PM
Author: HollyS

.....after six years and numerous ''discussions'', it''s time to have a very serious talk. And, you need to be ready and willing to walk away if the answer is ''I''m not ready, and I don''t know when I will be'', or something even more noncommittal. That being said, since when is being unmarried in your mid-twenties earmarking you for *old maidhood*? And if you''ve been together six years, have you ever dated anyone else seriously? If you haven''t, what makes you think YOU are ready for marriage? Especially with this guy?

Ok, I have to admit that I was more engrossed in the particulars and missed this set of details......so I went back to read an older thread, too. That thread leads me to believe at least one of you will still be in ''school'' next year too......is that right?

He''s only in his mid-20s???? And you''re essentially his only serious girlfriend? And you can''t understand why he''s not ready to get married? Honey, no wonder!

I gotta agree with Holly......if you haven''t dated anyone else seriously, why would you think you''re ready either? I know, I know.....there are people ready in their early 20s. Right.....but that''s WAY the exception these days, and there''s nothing wrong with him being unsure and unready given the circumstances.

A footnote: I went back and read a thread you started about 5 weeks ago.....snippets as follows:

''We are almost to the 60 days of Christmas.........I am desperately hoping that Christmas will be my time, even though I know in my head it probably isn''t happening. He knows I have always imagined the perfect proposal being during the holidays-- Christmas lights and such. I just think it would be super romantic, even if it isn''t all that original. So I don''t know if I should start hinting again in the hopes that it will happen, ........... I''m trying not to get my hopes up, because last Christmas was already a let down, but something inside me just wants to be hopeful.''

I''m getting a much clearer picture now. He told you in June that he''s not ready, so you knew it likely wasn''t happening, but because you want a holiday proposal and it''s the holidays, you hoped that would compel him to act anyway or somehow make him ready. And now, you''re disappointed because his intended gift is a bracelet.

Hinting can''t make someone ready when he isn''t. He''s not ready.....that''s the reality. What you do about that reality is up to you. If you decide you really are ready, you can either invest more time waiting/hoping..........or you can decide to apply your time toward getting to know others who are also ready NOW.

I can assure you, particularly in this day and age, in the 21st century, a huge percentage of couples who marry during their very first serious relationship, while they are still quite young (under 25), will eventually divorce. NO ONE and I do mean NO ONE, under 25 can even fathom the person they will be at 30, 40, 50 and beyond. You WILL NOT be the same person. Only if the couple can grow together, and accept the inevitable changes in each other, and adjust their expectations of each other, will they stay married. The statistics don''t lie.

And experience does not lie. I cannot tell you how blessed I am to have had a broken engagement at 21; my first serious relationship. It may have caused major heartache then, but I am not the same person as I was, and IF I was still married to the jerk, I would not be happy now. And, in all probability, I would have been divorced with children by the time I was in my thirties.

Do not ''settle'' on someone because it is easier than finding the ''right'' someone. If you are not really, comfortably, peacefully, positively in love - - without reservation or doubt, without expectation that he will change, without any disquiet about his feelings -- you are not ready for an engagement.

 

[Sha]

Date: 12/5/2007 1:08:10 AM
Author: risingsun

Date: 12/5/2007 12:26:25 AM
Author: Sha

Date: 12/4/2007 4:19:27 PM
Author: janinegirly
while i agree men think v. differently than women..i still think you can''t take that as a way to justfiy everything. I mean a guy can''t be that clueless! In this case it appears that they''ve been talking about engagement for some time (even though the topic may be off the table--i''m sure both realize it''s out there...esp if their last huge fight was over it), she''s waiting, it''s the holiday season, he went to a jewelry store..none of that sparked a thought in his head that connected the dots to engagement or that might serve as a reminder?


i''m just sayin''...

I don''t think he bought the bracelet because he''s ''clueless''... he''s just not READY to buy the ring.

ITA. This guy is not clueless, he''s not ready

The guy may not know what bracelet she would prefer, but unless he is lacking a few brain cells, he has not forgotten that they have looked at rings and spoken of an engagement. I''m just not willing to give men a pass by saying that they don''t know any better. They do know better, but they''re are just not talking about it. Why? To avoid emotional confrontations. They''d rather walk on hot coals--just ask them. Although, some would prefer a sharp stick in the eye

I''m not saying he''s forgotten about the ring discussion and bracelet. Of course he hasn''t. He''s just not ready to do it yet. If he was ready, he would be buying the ring this Christmas instead of the bracelet.

As aldjewey said - what he might be clueless about, (from a woman''s perspective), is that buying a woman a bracelet when he knows she wants a ring - might cause her to be extremely disappointed. From his standpoint, he might just think of it as getting her a nice sparkly gift for Christmas.

I don''t understand what you mean by ''ITA'' and ''him knowing better'' but not ''doing better''. Does ''knowing and doing'' better mean he KNOWS that she wants the ring so he should buy it this Christmas, whether or not he''s ready to? You can''t force a man to do that - it''ll only breed resentment. I think the fact that he''s buying a bracelet is a clear sign that he''s not ready for an engagement right now. I agree this needs talking about so that they both agree that they''re on the same page re: the future.

 

[risingsun]

Sha~I think we are all saying the same thing. This guy isn't ready to propose, but he surely knows that this has been on his gf's mind, based upon their past history. Rather than tell her she's getting something "sparkly" for Christmas, he might have had a conversation about where the two of them stand now and where he sees them going in the future. That's what I mean by he could be doing better, as in not avoiding their issues. Since he hasn't gotten up the courage to do so, we're advising her to bring it up with him.

BTW: ITA=I totally agree

 

[Sha]

Date: 12/6/2007 12:28:27 AM
Author: risingsun
Sha~I think we are all saying the same thing. This guy isn''t ready to propose, but he surely knows that this has been on his gf''s mind, based upon their past history. Rather than tell her she''s getting something ''sparkly'' for Christmas, he might have had a conversation about where the two of them stand now and where he sees them going in the future. That''s what I mean by he could be doing better, as in not avoiding their issues. Since he hasn''t gotten up the courage to do so, we''re advising her to bring it up with him.

BTW: ITA=I totally agree

Oh, I see what you''re saying. I think I misinterpreted your other post. Yes, I completely agree!