MAJOR dilemma. BM or online? I thought I''d already decided?

[garek007]

Hi,

oooh boy. I''ll start by saying that I''m THIS guy https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-is-a-sarin-report-used-for-and-how-to-measure-light-return.136064/ (what''s a sarin report for topic).

I had the ring all picked out, or at least I thought. I was going to buy from Union Diamond. The nice lady bent over backwards for me, sent everything I needed to make an informed decision, photos, ASET, IS, crown height, etc. I was set.

So today I''m calling my insurance asking about appraisals and wouldn''t you know it, they suggest an appraiser none other than the jeweler where I was planning to have my stone placed in a setting. The insurance lady tells me to call them because they have questions about the appraisal.

So I call. As for the appraisal questions they are all straightforward, basic questions. I didn''t tell they guy right away that I was going to use them to set my stone. I wanted to see if he''d try to sell me something first, I was feeling him out. So I finally tell him, Hey I had a friend who got a setting from you and I''m pretty sure I''m coming your way too.

So he says great and I also make the mistake of telling him I''m buying a stone online. Well he makes the spiel every jeweler makes about how you have to SEE the stone with your own eyes. I know that''s true to a point, but on some level it''s based on the numbers.

I posted my potential diamond in another thread, the numbers look good, some guys saw the IS and ASET, and said they looked good so that should be enough right?

So this guy wants me to come down and look at stones, he''s telling me about SI 1, etc and how they can look just as good as VVS1. I tell him there''s no way I''d consider SI 1, and that while I know it''s true what he''s saying, I have my heart set on VS1 or better. He basically wants me to come in so he can sell me a lower quality diamond for the same money. And I KNOW this.

But I tell him that I won''t take lower than G and that if he can find me a crown height greater than 10% (it''s a princess cut) I''d consider buying a diamond from him. I''m not willing to drop below G, but I would drop from VVS1 to VS1.

But here''s my question. Why should I? I LOVE the diamond I''m about to buy online. The photos, the ASET, the IS. The specs. Even when I looked at the numbers I felt like it was a good stone. I told this guy straight up, if you can come close to G color, VVS1, in an ideal cut for around 5200, I''ll buy from you.

But can he do that? He''s in a BM and I have a feeling that what is going to happen is that I get down there and he can''t show me a stone close to what I have for the price I''m about to pay. Can a BM even compete with online vendors? I feel like if I go look at his stones I''ll end up paying 1 to 2 hundred more for a stone of lesser quality. So even though I told him I''m open minded, why should I bother?

He said I could bring in the diamond after I''ve bought it and compare. That''s a good option, but I don''t want to send it back after it''s come to me. It will cost money and a lot of hassle. I told him I''d think about coming in beforehand, but I''m afraid that if I do and then refuse his stones, I''m afraid to go back with my stone to get it set. I''ve heard stories about dishonest jewelers who are mad that you didn''t buy from them so the mess up your stone. My friend went to him, so I think I can trust him, but who knows?

God I''m so confused. I really felt like I''d found my diamond but now this. What are your thoughts?

 

[Gypsy]

Get what you want. Ignore the guy trying to make a sale. You love that diamond, you spent your time and energy researching minutia to get the perfect stone... who is HE to tell you different? Except he's the one who wants a larger profit. No.

THIS is exactly why we do NOT recommend going to jewelers for appraisals BTW. You go to appraisers, who only appraise and do not sell merchandize and are not affiliated with stores that sell merchandise. An independant appraiser. Please go to the top tabs and find one in your area under "Resources"... and I would probably reconsider this guy for the setting personally. He sounds shady. Regardless of your friend's experience.

 

[garek007]

Hmmm, good point. my insurance co., state farm mentioned him too. I originally DID want an independent. He was saying if he did the setting appraisal would be free. But so what? so he can charge me for it somewhere else?

Great advice Gypsy, keep it coming my friends.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 2/12/2010 9:57:10 PM
Author: Gypsy
Get what you want. Ignore the guy trying to make a sale. You love that diamond, you spent your time and energy researching minutia to get the perfect stone... who is HE to tell you different? Except he''s the one who wants a larger profit. No.

THIS is exactly why we do NOT recommend going to jewelers for appraisals BTW. You go to appraisers, who only appraise and do not sell merchandize and are not affiliated with stores that sell merchandise. An independant appraiser. Please go to the top tabs and find one in your area under ''Resources''... and I would probably reconsider this guy for the setting personally. He sounds shady. Regardless of your friend''s experience.

Big Fat Ditto.

He is trying to pressure you. No fun and you are already uncomfortable, how do you think you will feel when you are there face to face?

Go to an independent. And have it set by Union. Is there a reason you are not getting it set before they send it to you?

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Hi Garek,

Yours is a very interesting story, and I have a slightly different take on it than other posters.

To start, your insurance company sent you to a non-independent appraiser (actually a jeweler) to have your purchase appraised. One can obviously debate whether such an appraisal can ever be independent, but from your story, I have the impression that he only went into selling-mode after you steered the conversation in that direction. This does not leave a bad taste with me, and after all, as a jeweler, it is his duty to try and sell to you.

Another good point for him, I cannot find in your story that he is trying to scare you away from another vendor. He is mainly trying to convince you to come and look with him. Now, he may be using arguments that do not fly with you, but I think that he is entitled to at least try.

Then you commented the following: "I posted my potential diamond in another thread, the numbers look good, some guys saw the IS and ASET, and said they looked good so that should be enough right?"
Well, as much as you want it to be enough, it actually is not. All the tools available online are rejection-tools, that help you weed out the sure bad performers. Still, in the end, you will need to verify this with your own eyes, and you will find that stones all passing these rejection-tests will still look differently to you, and some will appeal more than others. Especially, in your case, talking about princess-cuts, the online-tools allow you to obtain a stone clearly above-average, but you would be surprised about the many quality-levels (and taste-levels) still within this group. As such, this jeweler is right, and you do need to see the stone with your own eyes. The condition obviously is that he will also present you with stones that at least pass the same rejection-tests as your online-stone has passed.

Then comes your question whether a B&M can actually compete with online vendors? I see no reason why they cannot. Basically, he can get diamonds from the same sources, at the same prices, and the question is probably if he wants to compete, and not if he can compete.

As far as I see it, you are faced with a local jeweler, with whom you wanted to work for a setting. Now, this jeweler is trying to compete also for the sale of the diamond, and you cannot really hold this against him. You are reluctant, because you are trying to convince yourself that you are definitely going to end up with something worse and possibly more expensive. Actually, nobody can know that, and your jeweler probably deserves the benefit of the doubt here.

In your situation, I would take him up on that challenge. Order your stone online, and inform your local jeweler what he is competing with. Then, compare side-by-side. If he gets you a better stone, you have the benefit of buying everything locally. Having to return the stone to the online-vendor is an inherent cost of buying-online. Your jeweler will probably bring in stones at his cost, which will increase his motivation to be really competitive.

If his stone loses, his reaction will dictate whether you want to continue working with him. He may be a good sport, because he learned something in the exercise, and that will lead to a great relation, or he may be sour grapes, which is a turn-off.

Just my 2 cents.

Live long,

 

[denverappraiser]

What your insurance agent means by an ‘appraisal’ is not the same as what is generally discussed here. To bind a policy, insurers need several things in advance. In particular they’re looking for sufficient documentation so they can replace the piece with another of ‘like kind and quality’ in the case of a loss since this is what they’re agreeing to do in the policy. Secondly, they need a price on which to base the premiums. Neither of these objectives requires an independent professional and, in practice, it’s both possible and common for the selling jeweler to provide it for ‘free’. The process also provides independent witness that the item actually exists, that it’s in your possession and that you at least claim to own it. Although they may seem obvious, these details are clearly important for the insurer. Most full service jewelers offer this kind of documentation both for items they sell and things you’ve bought elsewhere and there’s nothing especially wrong with it although my observation has been that most ‘free’ services aren’t the best work.

The tricky part is that YOU may have some additional issues. People often are concerned that what they’ve received is as described, that no critical information was omitted in the sales presentation, that the craftsmanship and condition of the piece is up to snuff, and that the item is a ‘good deal’ compared with other things available in the market. This is where a conflict of interest (or a perceived conflict of interest) can become a problem. It’s not a second opinion if it comes from the same source as the first and a sales pitch for an alternative is definitely not the same as an appraisal. As far as I can tell, these weren’t your concerns in seeking out an appraisal and they surely weren’t the questions of your insurer so I’m curious what questions did they have about the appraisal?

I agree with Paul, if you’re still shopping and the jeweler wants to compete for the job, let him take a stab at it if you've got the time and temperament to go through another sales pitch. If you wish to continue to use him as an ‘appraiser’, bear in mind the conflict of interest, especially in terms of the craftsmanship related issues on his own work and if he has something disparaging to say about the other guys goods that he's not prepared to back up with clear facts. If you have appraisal related questions beyond what is required by the insurer, consider finding someone more ‘independent’. Meeting the insurance company’s requirements is easy. It’s YOUR requirements that can be difficult.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[garek007]

All very good points...
Please keep them coming. if anyone new sees this

Paul, you make a very good case. I suspected that some would recommend seeing it with my own eyes. It''s good to hear that even with good numbers you still can''t be sure and you make a good point about how online tools being ''rejection tools''.

Mostly I HATE dealing with sales people and having to say NO if the diamonds he has are not what I like. BUT you make a good point about his reaction and whether or not he gets the setting.

I didn''t want to have to go through the hassle of getting the diamond and then returning it, especially online where it might be hard. But I guess if I''m making a purchase this big I should be willing to do some extra legwork.

So here''s a question. Let''s say I get my stone and take it in. Let''s say he has an H color, VS1 that seems to look a little better than my G VVS1. I''m not sure I can fathom paying the same price for what is according to specs a lesser stone. Thoughts?

Neil,
Should I take it to him before getting appraised? I don''t want to pay 85 bucks to get it appraised only to find out that he has a better stone and I''m going to return the online one. I may be able to tell by the specs what the better stones are even without getting the appraisal first. I''ve done my homework and know to look beyond the 4Cs. What do you think of this approach? Get the stone, go straight to him and judge with my own knowledge the best rock?

 

[denverappraiser]

Finish your shopping first, before you get it appraised for insurance purposes. If you’re looking for professional assistance in the shopping process, find someone who isn’t one of the choices in the shopping decision. You can't have it both ways and often 'free' advice is far more expensive than you expected.

The insurance appraisal should be done AFTER the ring is completed so that the appraiser can inspect and document the entire piece, not just one of the components.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[garek007]

Neil,

how do I verify that what Union Diamond sold me is really what I got? I was going to have the stone appraised by itself, is there a better way to do this?

Still would like some opinions on my other question from post 3:31:10,

"So here''s a question. Let''s say I get my stone and take it in. Let''s say he has an H color, VS1 that seems to look a little better than my G VVS1. I''m not sure I can fathom paying the same price for what is according to specs a lesser stone. Thoughts?"

why pay more for an inferior stone?

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Hi,
I went into a B&M that tried to convince me that an AGS H SI1 is the same as one of the odd certification labs (IGI?) stone that was F I1 would be better. The stone had a HUGE inclusion that took up 1/3 of it. The stones were the SAME price (IIRC. . .or maybe the I1 was a few hundred more).

I''ve never seen a B&M who would match same quality of diamond cut with same specs. They always try to mix all the numbers around to what they think is superior (even if the lab they use isn''t reputable - like the above mentioned one. The diamond was smaller .60 and I could see the huge inclusion 6" away. No prongs could cover that sucker).

Remember you''ll have to pay tax which adds to the price.

 

[garek007]

Date: 2/14/2010 12:02:03 PM
Author: MC
Hi,

I went into a B&M that tried to convince me that an AGS H SI1 is the same as one of the odd certification labs (IGI?) stone that was F I1 would be better. The stone had a HUGE inclusion that took up 1/3 of it. The stones were the SAME price (IIRC. . .or maybe the I1 was a few hundred more).


I''ve never seen a B&M who would match same quality of diamond cut with same specs. They always try to mix all the numbers around to what they think is superior (even if the lab they use isn''t reputable - like the above mentioned one. The diamond was smaller .60 and I could see the huge inclusion 6'' away. No prongs could cover that sucker).



Remember you''ll have to pay tax which adds to the price.

Ahhh, geez, good point on the tax MC. Paul, you make very good points, but MC is right on the tax. I pay no tax when I buy from UD and that is going to literally save me hundreds. Even if the BM matches the price, then I still have the tax. The other day when I told him the price was 5221 for 1.05 Carat G color he said, oh yeah I have one for 5100, but then he realized it was .82. Based on the conversation I had with him I have a feeling that when I get to the store he will do exactly what MC said, which is try to mix up the numbers and convince me that an SI1 is better than my VVS1 I bought online. There''s no way it can be better. Ok, so even if the cosmetic beauty is nicer, it would still have inclusions that could compromise the structural integrity of the stone

I could tell that this guy was a salesman. I told him straight up that I had a VVS1 G color diamond in what was considered an ''ideal cut'' by UD, AND I told him it had medium girdle and 8.5% crown height. I think he probably knew he couldn''t get me a better diamond, but wants to get me in there so he can sell me. He did say bring it with me and maybe I will have to do that. Like I said thought, I just HATE dealing with sales people and having to say no, but if he wants to waste his time then I guess I could let him. Paul is right on that end, no reason why I can''t look, but MC thanks for reminding me of the sales tax. His price would have to come in waaayy lower in order to even come close to my price, and I have a good feeling that won''t happen.

The reality of it is this. I went to Robbins Bros and looked at three stones all of slightly different Carat weights, .95, 1.05, 1.00 etc, one was F, one G, and one H and while I had my favorite, the G .95, they all looked so close that I don''t think it would have mattered if I bought the H at a couple hundred dollars less. So what I''m saying is, although I think there is some truth to the "you have to see with your eyes" rule, in the end, if I''ve done my homework and the numbers are good, I''m not going to see the difference between my UD diamond and one that he is selling at a slightly higher cost. And if I can''t see the difference, why pay more?

This has been extremely helpful everyone. Thank you. I still welcome opinions so if anyone has more, please comment. Thanks again everyone.

 

[denverappraiser]

How do I verify that what Union Diamond sold me is really what I got? I was going to have the stone appraised by itself, is there a better way to do this?

Personally I recommend getting an independent appraisal done as part of the shopping process and then getting an insurance appraisal done on the finished piece. This wasn’t your question up to this point and you’re right that this isn’t the way to minimize appraisal fees. It’s up to you to decide if professional advise will be helpful and I’m not exactly an unbiased observer on this question and there are specific forum rules about vendors touting their own goods and services here. If you get good advice I think it definitely is worth the cost, even if it turns out to agree with what you thought you knew. If you’re doing it as part of the shopping process, I think you’re wasting your appraisal fee if what you’re getting is a sales pitch from a competitor.

"So here's a question. Let's say I get my stone and take it in. Let's say he has an H color, VS1 that seems to look a little better than my G VVS1. I'm not sure I can fathom paying the same price for what is according to specs a lesser stone. Thoughts?"

This sort of issue, among others, is the REASON I think an independent appraisal is worth your time and money.

why pay more for an inferior stone?

People do it all the time. Among other things, you can save $100 or so on an appraisal fee and possibly some shipping charges this way. I count it as pinching your pennies and not your dollars but the majority of people do it anyway. They go into a store, pick something they have and go away happy. It's a matter of deciding on your shopping strategy. Your current concerns don't seem to revolve around the insurance documentation, which is where this discussion started and the reason your insurance agent referred you to that jeweler.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[garek007]

Date: 2/14/2010 1:59:11 PM
Author: denverappraiser
How do I verify that what Union Diamond sold me is really what I got? I was going to have the stone appraised by itself, is there a better way to do this?


Personally I recommend getting an independent appraisal done as part of the shopping process and then getting an insurance appraisal done on the finished piece. This wasn’t your question up to this point and you’re right that this isn’t the way to minimize appraisal fees. It’s up to you to decide if professional advise will be helpful and I’m not exactly an unbiased observer on this question and there are specific forum rules about vendors touting their own goods and services here. If you get good advice I think it definitely is worth the cost, even if it turns out to agree with what you thought you knew. If you’re doing it as part of the shopping process, I think you’re wasting your appraisal fee if what you’re getting is a sales pitch from a competitor.


''So here''s a question. Let''s say I get my stone and take it in. Let''s say he has an H color, VS1 that seems to look a little better than my G VVS1. I''m not sure I can fathom paying the same price for what is according to specs a lesser stone. Thoughts?''


This sort of issue, among others, is the REASON I think an independent appraisal is worth your time and money.


why pay more for an inferior stone?


People do it all the time. Among other things, you can save $100 or so on an appraisal fee and possibly some shipping charges this way. I count it as pinching your pennies and not your dollars but the majority of people do it anyway. They go into a store, pick something they have and go away happy. It''s a matter of deciding on your shopping strategy. Your current concerns don''t seem to revolve around the insurance documentation, which is where this discussion started and the reason your insurance agent referred you to that jeweler.


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

Professional Appraisals in Denver

Ok, so Denver appraiser. to be clear. you are saying do this.

1 get my stone from UD get it appraised by an INDEPENDENT appraiser.
2 get my stone set
3 get it appraised again, also by an INDEPENDENT appraiser?

is that right? everyone seems to be pointing to an independent, and that is what I wanted originally. I just got caught up in this jeweler because of the insurance people. but really, I wanted an independent appraiser from day one. It sounds like what I''m hearing is that there is NO GOOD REASON TO HAVE THIS JEWELER ''APPRAISE'' MY STONE. right?

If I buy from UD, I work in Carlsbad and I can take the stone down to the GIA and have them do a ''verification'' for 50 bucks. That''s all I wanted to make sure that UD sold me the right stone with the right paperwork. Neil, would this work in place of an appraisal of the stone? Or do you recommend an appraisal of the stone as well? Is the GIA ''verification'' a waste of money?

Neil I''m confused by this statement of yours "This sort of issue, among others, is the REASON I think an independent appraisal is worth your time and money. " What does an appraisal have to do with a jeweler convincing me to pay more for a lower clarity, higher color stone? I don''t believe I pay shipping fees or taxes from UD, so why would I want to spend 200 bucks more on an inferior stone (according to grading stats)?

 

[lulu]

I can''t stress enough how disappointing it is that I found Pricescope after buying some stones. I''d do online in a heartbeat.

 

[denverappraiser]

I’m sorry to be unclear.

The reason to have an appraisal done on the loose stone is if you are using the appraisal and/or the appraisal process as part of your shopping decision. It’s still not clear to me if this is the case for you and you may or may not want to do this but a verification by GIA does not add any new information. An appraisal might. I see no problem with having a competitor verify the stone for you for free, that’s not an appraisal or even a grading. It’s easy, and any capable gemologist can do it. If they say it DOESN'T match, call UD about it and if they ask you to, go to GIA to get it in writing.

There are a variety of issues beyond the stats listed on the grading report and matching the stone to the report that people can be concerned with. Cutting, condition and where a stone lies in the continuum of a particular grade are the most obvious. These topics get discussed frequently on the forum. (ex. The GIA grades include a wide variety of stones and in some cases the ranges are quite large. Often people are concerned about what is ‘eye visible’ or is a likely durability concern, attributes that are not directly included in the clarity grade. The ‘excellent’ cut grade is very inclusive of different stones and people often want a more specific assessment. There is no cut assessment at all on non-round stones, etc.). Usually people are also concerned about pricing and value when they talk with an appraiser or, for example, have concerns about the difference(s) between a particular G/VVS1 and an H/VS1 that they’re considering.

The possibility of shipping comes in if you decide you want to find an independent appraiser and are unable to locate an acceptable expert locally. If you can find a local appraiser who is acceptable to you, then shipping is probably unnecessary. Most communities in the country don’t have a single one.

(There are several well qualified appraisers in San Diego county by the way, at least one of whom I know is listed in the database here).

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[garek007]

Neil, you are not unclear, but this is confusing stuff.

Ok, so it sounds like the GIA ''verification'' is a waste of time and money. No, I was not planning on using the appraisal as part of my shopping. What I DO want is to make sure that what I have paid for my stone is a fair value. I want to make sure that the 5G I spent, is spent well and that I did not get screwed.

IF the jeweler was going to let me borrow his stones and take them to an independent appraiser all at once, and let me discover the best value, THEN I might use it as part of the shopping process. But I doubt that would fly.

If I buy the stone from UD, then get my appraisal done, the appraiser I''m sure can verify that the diamond I got matches the GIA report that it came with no? And I''m sure if he says, "This diamond is worth 6K and I spent 5K, then it won''t matter, because I''ll know I got a good deal.

According to the list here, there are some good appraisers in SD County. I looked at the list briefly, but who is it you referenced? Is that a recommendation on your part?

As far as stats and the continuum of grading, I understand. GIA only grades a few things, but the beauty of the stone is what gives it its value, and THAT is where the appraiser comes in. The stone I''m looking at only has two pinpoint inclusions so if it is cut well, I think it''s going to be a very nice stone. And I''d be glad to have an appraiser verify that. If an appraiser does verify that I got my money''s worth, and I''m happy with my stone, then there really may be no reason for me to look at this other jeweler''s stones...

 

[denverappraiser]

GIA does not grade beauty and they do not assign value.

If a selling jeweler will not permit you to get an independent appraisal with a 100% return for any reason within a reasonable amount of time, rather like UD has offered you, refuse to buy from them regardless of the offer.

As has been pointed out, Union is a reliable and highly price competitive outfit. I would be VERY surprised if what you’ve received from them is not the one described on the report. It is possible for local dealers to compete with them on price but it’s not easy and most can't or won’t want to do it. By all means make it clear to the potential seller that this is the standard he’s being held to.

Not all appraisers offer the same services and not everyone communicates well with every client. Shop them against one another just like you’re doing with the diamond and choose one that suits YOU be it their qualifications, their location, specific tools or services you want or just their overall style of doing business. That’s why I don’t recommend names in markets where you’ve got a selection. There may be other readers here in your area who will make a specific recommendation or you can start a new thread with a title like 'looking for a recommended appraiser in San Diego' and I'll bet you'll get some endorsements from prior clients. Pricescopers are everywhere.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[garek007]

Thanks again Neil. I think I may purchase the stone from Union Diamond. If I love it great. And if this jeweler persists I may give him a chance to compete. Like Paul said, if his reaction stinks, I can walk out. I''m already a bit hesitant as it is because he turned on the salesman, but like Paul said, he didn''t do it until I mentioned that "I was considering my setting with him". Still, I hate sales people that pressure. You can make money and be an effective salesman without acting like a salesman.

One way I''ve been very good at dissuading sales people in the past is being completely up front with him. Tell him, "I''m not going to take a lesser stone for the same price". I have a feeling he is going to put stones in front of me that are lower clarity, more color for a couple hundred less and try to convince me it''s a better stone. If he tries that he''s out, for everything. I''m nervous about "pissing a jeweler off" and having him torque my stone (as I read in Fred Cueller''s book).

Lulu, thank you for your post, point well taken. I will probably buy the UD diamond and given that returns may be difficult, I may end up keeping it. We shall see.

 

[CharmyPoo]

I think you are just nervous about the purchase - you keep playing "what if" scenarios in your head. The truth is .. there is always going to be a better diamond or a cheaper diamond out there. Just focus on getting a fair deal for a diamond you love.

 

[ydiamonds]

I just want to describe my process when I got my ring, and hope that it helps you with your decision.

I had the stone sent to an appraiser near me, without paying for the stone first. I wanted to see the stone before wiring the $, and to verify some of the factors that Neil described, especially cut quality since my stone is a fancy cut. The deal was that if I like the stone, I pay the vendor, and the vendor authorizes the appraiser to release the stone to me. If I don''t like the stone, it goes back to the vendor directly from the appraiser. Of course, sending the stone out was free but I pay for the return shipping. In my case, I accepted the stone but returned it to the vendor for setting.

The agreement with the appraiser was that he would check out the stone with me, give me an oral opinion, and I pay him a reduced fee that was applied towards a full insurance appraisal if I accept the stone and comes back with the finished ring. Coming back with the finished ring for a full insurance appraisal was more for the peace of mind that the stone was the same (and not damaged) and the workmanship of the ring is of acceptable quality. I also talked to another independent appraiser and the process was the same, so I wouldn''t be surprised if this is commonly done. My insurance company accepts the vendor receipt as the insured value so I didn''t really need an insurance appraisal, but I felt better having my ring checked out. The appraisal can also reassure you that you paid a fair price for the stone.

Hope this helps and good luck!

 

[CharmyPoo]

Date: 2/14/2010 7:21:37 PM
Author: CharmyPoo
I think you are just nervous about the purchase - you keep playing ''what if'' scenarios in your head. The truth is .. there is always going to be a better diamond or a cheaper diamond out there. Just focus on getting a fair deal for a diamond you love.

PS: I should mention that I went through the same thing too.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

We have also used vendor receipts for insurance as we did not want to pay an inflated amount for insurance. We chose not to get an independent appraisal since the stones were GIA graded. We just had the jeweler setting the stone verify that the stone was the one represented on the grading certificate. You''ve already done the research to compare prices on here. I''d just ask the jeweler setting your stone to do a valuation based on internet pricing so that your valuation isn''t too inflated.

I vote for buying the diamond from Union that you already picked out. Is this guy going to be able to supply you with IS and aset? I sort of doubt it. It''s just going to be a somewhat unpleasant experience because you''ll ultimately end up turning him down for the stone. (And don''t be confused by the fact that almost ALL diamonds look good in jewelry store lighting..even the bad ones!!!) For future reference, it is good to say that you already have a diamond when making a call like this. Then you eliminate the sales pitch. From my experience, I think it is extremely unlikely that he''d match the price for an equivalent stone. As far as the clarity goes, VS1 is very, very clean. I can''t see inclusions in my stone at 10x magnification.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Hi Garek,

I just returned to this thread, and only now say your and other reactions to my post. In your personal case, you need to decide yourself what your comfort-level is, both with buying online as with considering the options of your local jeweler. Only you can actually weigh what is important to you.

For a more general purpose, I feel the need to play devil''s advocate for a second.

There are probably hundreds of companies selling diamonds online, and only a handful of them reach a level of quality in their service which is acceptable to Pricescope-standards. Some of them are fantastic, a few are better than fantastic, and others are good enough.

The same is probably true on the B&M-level. Again, a minority will be acceptable to Pricescope-standards, of which some will be fantastic or even better, and others simply good enough.

In the pricescope-environment however, it has become rather easy to identify the best online-vendors, whereas it is extremely difficult to pinpoint the very best B&M''s in a specific area. The fact that they are not as visible here however does not mean that they do not exist.

As such, I find the blunt and general advice to only consider buying online as incorrect. Buying online does not guarantee a great result, it again depends upon the selection of the vendor, based upon personal preferences.

There is no objective reason why a competitive, well-organized and efficient B&M could not compete with an online-vendor, disregarding the sales-tax-issue for a second. After all, it is not the fault of the local shop that they abide the law. But for a number of consumers, the potentially better service and other advantages of having a local retailer clearly outweigh that sales-tax-disadvantage.

In order to counter the generalized advice to buy online, I would qualify that advice and say that it depends upon two persons. One being the consumer, and how he or she values the advantage of having a local jeweler. And second being the specific local jeweler himself, and how he is organized in order to compete on quality, service and price.

Just my 2 cents,

 

[garek007]

Thanks everyone for the new posts.

CharmyPoo you are right, I am playing what if scenarios mainly because I don''t want to go to the BM store and get pressured. Again I''ll say how much I HATE salespeople.

That being said, your experiences have all helped me. Paul, Like I said, I may give this guy a chance to compete, although I''m fairly sure he won''t be able to. For me, it is not so important to have a local jeweler. I''ve been dealing with someone at UD who is giving me a fair price and has been immensely helpful without ever pressuring me. To me, THAT is what is most important, having someone I feel like I can trust.