Markings on Art Deco ring?

[SallyB]

Hi, I’m negotiating on a ring, but have a question. Was it common during the Art Deco period not to have ANY markings on the inside of the shank? Nothing indicating platinum content, no maker’s marks? Thank you in advance for any insight!!!

 

[elizat]

Fairly common. Especially if it has been resized, new shank, etc. Are they testing gold content? Do you have a return policy?

 

[SallyB]

Thanks so much @elizat ! This is helpful.

They did test it and it does have a good return policy.

Would the fact that there are no marks though bring down the value of the ring? Especially if I were to resell it in the future?

 

[JPie]

I agree with elizat regarding markings. If this is a substantial purchase, I would recommend that you get it appraised within the return period. This appraisal will also help you get a fair price if you decide to resell it.

David Atlas is a good appraiser. I’ve also had a good experience with Jewelry Nerd via Instagram.

 

[elizat]

To me, no. Unless it was made by a known maker. There are lots of antique rings without markings, so unless it's a Tiffany ring or Cartier, say, I think it's ok. But that's just my view.

 

[Roselina]

I have seen quite a few.

 

[Nikki1415]

Hi, I’m negotiating on a ring, but have a question. Was it common during the Art Deco period not to have ANY markings on the inside of the shank? Nothing indicating platinum content, no maker’s marks? Thank you in advance for any insight!!!

The ruby target ring I recently acquired is like that (no marks). The shank is original to the ring because of the details on it, there are small sidetones that are migrained like the rest of the ring and a design that is connected from the migrain that goes around the whole shank. I need to get an appraisal done but everything is closed in NYC but I'm pretty sure it's platinum because A. delicate but weighty, B. more grayish than my white gold, C. sterling tarnishes within days on me, D. any other metal my skin reacts to it.
If you love it, get it and pay using Paypal and take it to an appraiser or jeweler.

 

[Nikki1415]

Hi, I’m negotiating on a ring, but have a question. Was it common during the Art Deco period not to have ANY markings on the inside of the shank? Nothing indicating platinum content, no maker’s marks? Thank you in advance for any insight!!!

I just realized that two of mine are like that, my other ring that has a transitional diamond and deco setting is like that too and it was tested by my jeweler.

 

[nala]

You might want to check to see if it was reshanked. My Art Deco rings usually have the stamp of 10 per iridium platinum except for the ones that were reshanked due to excessive wear

 

[SallyB]

Thank you everyone for your help on the lack of markings!

I’m really undecided on this ring, so I’m just going to post it here to hopefully get your opinions on everything else about it. There’s a small gap between 2 of the emeralds but I was assured the stones aren’t loose (thoughts?). I posted a photo of the ring somewhere else on PS a few days ago and someone commented that’s it’s overpriced. By how much do you think it’s overpriced? There’s an IG video in the listing. Thanks again, here it is!:

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[SallyB]

Does it look like it was reshanked?

 

[Nikki1415]

Thank you everyone for your help on the lack of markings!

I’m really undecided on this ring, so I’m just going to post it here to hopefully get your opinions on everything else about it. There’s a small gap between 2 of the emeralds but I was assured the stones aren’t loose (thoughts?). I posted a photo of the ring somewhere else on PS a few days ago and someone commented that’s it’s overpriced. By how much do you think it’s overpriced? There’s an IG video in the listing. Thanks again, here it is!:

Help Finding A Vintage, Erstwhile or Made To Order Ring | Erstwhile Jewelry | NYC

Review our vast collection of vintage and antique rings to find what best fits your needs. We also offer rings made in-house by our professional jewelers, Erstwhile Collection. Made to Order collection offers custom made options.

erstwhilejewelry.com

It doesn't look reshanked to my eye. That emerald gap would drive me insane and why is there a gap in the first place, especially for that price. Is there any information about the diamonds/emeralds? Like carat weight? 4k seems like a lot for such a delicate piece, even though it is gorgeous.

 

[nala]

Does it look like it was reshanked?

I think only an appraiser could confirm that if the vendor doesn’t know. As yo your question, I myself would pass due to the high price. It if you love it and have to have it, I don’t think it will be easy to find another exact one.

 

[SallyB]

The seller is only in once a week now due to cv, so they couldn’t answer some of my more specific questions about carats, clarity, etc. That gap between the emeralds...I just don’t know if I’d find it wonkily charming or insanely annoying like you said @Nikki1415. The seller is willing to come down in price Into the low $3,000’s, but this is still more than I was hoping to pay.

If anyone has additional thoughts, please chime in! Thanks!

 

[elizat]

I think it's still too expensive even in that range.

 

[SallyB]

I’ve looked around online and you’re right @nala. It’s hard to find a ring like this.

 

[Nikki1415]

The seller is only in once a week now due to cv, so they couldn’t answer some of my more specific questions about carats, clarity, etc. That gap between the emeralds...I just don’t know if I’d find it wonkily charming or insanely annoying like you said @Nikki1415. The seller is willing to come down in price Into the low $3,000’s, but this is still more than I was hoping to pay.

If anyone has additional thoughts, please chime in! Thanks!

It bothers me when sellers don't provide the basic information, especially for such an expensive piece. It should be the first part of the information, especially to justify the price. I would want to know the size of the diamonds minimally because I've seen nice French cut bands around that price and to scale those measurements on my own hand (to see if it's a nice size on the hand).

 

[SallyB]

Thanks again everyone. You’ve really helped me and given me a lot to think about. My wallet thanks you too for your advice on the price!

I’ll let you know how it turns out after I contact seller about these issues.

 

[Bron357]

Yes, for that money the vendor should be providing diamond carat weight, colour and clarity. While such reports done “while set” are subjective, you really need these facts to ascertain if price is fair or not.
I’m thinking a lot of the price is because of those French cut diamonds. These are hard to find and in an good condition Art Deco ring, even harder. I suspect it is French. If it is it would explain the loss of the hallmark. The French hallmark to the outside of the ring, at the bottom of the shank. This makes it more likely to be lost due to wear / resizing.
If you really love the ring, it will take some time and searching to find another similar but I do agree with the others, it is definately overpriced at $4,000, I’d be thinking just under $3,000 as a fairer price.

 

[Rfisher]

I think this is possibly a newly done piece, done with no markings on purpose. Even though it states ‘circa 1920’ or whatever.
Ask them to be sure.

If it’s a genuine period piece, has it been refurbished or it is just in pristine condition except those two emeralds having a gap. If the frenchies pristine and high color and clarity? All these things are going to drive up the desirability and price. Plus the overhead of this company and the vetting. It’s not fair to compare pricing from stores like this to eBay finds or to period pieces that need restoration work or a newer piece that have recut princesses or something like that. You pay for their curating. Or hopefully something like that.

I commissioned a ring that thru miscommunication, or just plain error, was produced in Argentina by a bench known for realistic looking new ‘antiques’. It had no hallmark/metal stamp.

 

[SallyB]

I think this is possibly a newly done piece, done with no markings on purpose. Even though it states ‘circa 1920’ or whatever.
Ask them to be sure.

If it’s a genuine period piece, has it been refurbished or it is just in pristine condition except those two emeralds having a gap. If the frenchies pristine and high color and clarity? All these things are going to drive up the desirability and price. Plus the overhead of this company and the vetting. It’s not fair to compare pricing from stores like this to eBay finds or to period pieces that need restoration work or a newer piece that have recut princesses or something like that. You pay for their curating. Or hopefully something like that.

I commissioned a ring that thru miscommunication, or just plain error, was produced in Argentina by a bench known for realistic looking new ‘antiques’. It had no hallmark/metal stamp.

Wow, I’m glad you clicked that link in the listing. I didn’t.
So thank you @Rfisher. I think I’ll need to speak with them on the phone because I‘m not sure I’m getting straightforward answers. Perhaps because I’m a newbie and I’m not asking the right questions.

They do sell some beautiful rings, but I’m not comfortable spending so much on a band when I don’t know what part is new and what part is vintage.

 

[Rfisher]

That tab info might be on everything. I don’t know. But ask.

If you are getting perfection in a ring from a store like this, you are going to pay for it.
If I’m paying top dollar, I want that perfection. Top quality stones or true uniqueness and any refurbishing taken care of.

I don’t know if any of the recommended appraisers that post here have ever stated here or elsewhere that they can confirm or deny that a piece is genuine period or a good repro or a bad repro. If sure be checking that out as well. I wouldn’t mind paying their fee to find that out, as I would pay more for a pristine/unique true period piece.

 

[ForteKitty]

I also think it's a repro. Deco frenchies have different tables. The fc in that ring have rhombus shaped tables and I've seen dealers selling handfuls of them at the Miami antique show, culet and all, cut to look old.

 

[SallyB]

I also think it's a repro. Deco frenchies have different tables. The fc in that ring have rhombus shaped tables and I've seen dealers selling handfuls of them at the Miami antique show, culet and all, cut to look old.

Thank you @ForteKitty! Do the dealers at the Miami antique show sell them as reproductions, or do they try to pass them off as authentic Art Deco pieces? Are there a lot of fakes there to look out for? I’m wondering because I’m thinking about going to the next show, whenever that might be. I just missed it this year as I was in Miami in February.

 

[ForteKitty]

Thank you @ForteKitty! Do the dealers at the Miami antique show sell them as reproductions, or do they try to pass them off as authentic Art Deco pieces? Are there a lot of fakes there to look out for? I’m wondering because I’m thinking about going to the next show, whenever that might be. I just missed it this year as I was in Miami in February.

I've seen a lot of repros passed off as authentic Deco from supposedly reputable vendors, and a lot sold as reproductions but with old cuts. You can easily tell the bad repros, but the good ones are really, really good. Unless they have worn stamps and wear on milgrain or prongs (you can see difference between normal wear and scrapes under a loupe), I just assume that they are new and pay accordingly. Most of my deco/edwardian pieces have "plat/platinum/irid" stamped, along with initials of the previous owners, although I'm sure those can be faked as well if they really wanted to. I guess the point is just pay for what you think is fair assuming it's newly made... I would never pay a premium unless it's absolutely spectacular. The loose diamonds at the shows were sold as newly cut.

 

[Roselina]

very similar to this - your’s is of course much higher quality. It seems to be an Art Deco kind of setting at least. If genuine is hard to tell. Might be European, maybe French. No markings on mine either. I can tell it was resized at a point, so maybe lost. Might be white gold or plat, I don’t know...
French cuts are insanely expensive. When talking of 1.2 carats as here it might not even be extremely overpriced (a bit though).

 

[Ceilimom]

Thank you everyone for your help on the lack of markings!

I’m really undecided on this ring, so I’m just going to post it here to hopefully get your opinions on everything else about it. There’s a small gap between 2 of the emeralds but I was assured the stones aren’t loose (thoughts?). I posted a photo of the ring somewhere else on PS a few days ago and someone commented that’s it’s overpriced. By how much do you think it’s overpriced? There’s an IG video in the listing. Thanks again, here it is!:

Help Finding A Vintage, Erstwhile or Made To Order Ring | Erstwhile Jewelry | NYC

Review our vast collection of vintage and antique rings to find what best fits your needs. We also offer rings made in-house by our professional jewelers, Erstwhile Collection. Made to Order collection offers custom made options.

erstwhilejewelry.com

I actually looked at this ring. Loved the details on the setting. The emeralds are a pretty color too.

 

[Ceilimom]

I’ve looked around online and you’re right @nala. It’s hard to find a ring like this.

You know, I was thinking of asking David Klass about recreating something like this ring. It's my impression that this vendor is a bit pricey and not very flexible. I've sent questions on some of their other rings and shied away after their response.

 

[Inked]

Have you looked on "1st dibs" for something similar? I just bought an antique 5 stone from there. It's a marketplace site, so you'd have to check the individual sellers info, but I had been looking for a victorian 5 diamond ring for a few months and there seemed to be more choices for me there.

 

[LightBright]

Thank you Fortekitty for the information on newly cut French Cuts (sold at the Miami Show) and RFisher for observing that Argentinian reproduction pieces sometimes don’t have metal marks (but looking authentic).

About four years ago I was in a “antique” jewelry store in Cape May, New Jersey. The jewelry they had was stunning. The quality of the settings was excellent. The stones and designs were absolutely beautiful. Everything looked like the finest antique jewelry to me but even prettier (somehow made for a more modern sensibility). Then I asked the jeweler about authencity and she told me that 75% of her pieces were modern reproductions from Argentina. It was shocking, and it had fooled me (without a loupe).

I mention this to anyone who wants a truly antique piece because more and more I am seeing phenomenal reproductions with designs surpassing even high quality jewelers, being sold as authentic period pieces.

Regarding the ring posted here, I feel like it is a reproduction. It looks like a cast piece, rather than a hand forged piece, and there is no significant wear. It’s also a gorgeous design, with a modern sensibility (a little more streamlined). Plus, I’ve never seen anything like it in antique form.

A few weeks ago I posted in response to a poster who wanted advice on a couple of diamond solitaire rings being sold by Erstwhile Jewelry as authentic period pieces. The stones looked authentic to me, but the settings were NOT, IMO. Hearing Fortekitty’s observation about newly cut French Cuts being sold at Miami and... No, I’ve NEVER seen an antique platinum piece without a metal mark unless it was reshanked. This ring is just not an authentic period piece, IMO.

FYI - 1.20 carats of AUTHENTIC, ANTIQUE, LARGE French Cuts is well worth low $3,000 for people looking for true antique pieces. They are that rare.

IMO, if you love the ring, I think low $3,000s is a decent price. A retail custom designed setting (platinum/Ruthenium metal only) will cost you at least $1,500. EG you might be able to create a ring for that amount with a custom design, but it won’t have the very meticulous design of an Argentinian modern replica setting and you will have to find the repro cut stones (not many jewelers have them).

These are just my opinions. Thank you to all the posters who are illuminating the UBIQUITOUS nature of reproductions being sold as antique. It’s really sad and a little nervous making to realize that my beloved antiques are just not that available any more.