May be cancelling wedding :( (long)

[robbie3982]

The other day my mom and I got in a screaming fight about invitations. They''ve already been ordered and were to come in this week. I was asking when they''d be in because we really need to get them out the first week of July since the RSVP date is the first week of July. My mom is doing the invitations because she insists on hand writing them and I just wanted to print labels (I know it''s a faux pas, but I don''t care!). She said the invitations would get done when they got done and there''s nothing I could do about it. I said, if you can''t get them done, I''ll do them. It escalated, we screamed, we blamed eachother for why the invitations were so late in the first place and it ended with me hanging up on her. The phone rang right after I hung up with her, and it was her phone, so I picked it up and screamed "I''m not talking to you right now!" and hung up. I know I was being a bratty bridezilla, but it definitely didn''t warrant what followed.

The next day, I got this email from my dad (I''ll bold the parts that are my explanations):

First,

Mommy worked very, very hard dealing with that company you decided to get invitations from, and dealing with you and the approvals you wanted to have over every element of the invitation. I just wanted to see the invitation and reply card before we ordered them. I didn''t ask for all kinds of crazy approvals like he makes it sound. The company kept screwing up the invitation, not faxing when they said they would, not having their fax number functioning half the time I tried to fax to them, and other problems. Mommy put in a lot of effort so you could have what you wanted, and she deserved to be treated nicer than you treated her today.

Second,

I failed to communicate to you a strong enough message about not taking drugs. In college, I had a bit of a problem with pot. I got in trouble with the police my junior year, but it has since been expunged from my record. I have completely cleaned my act up (I rarely even have a glass of wine anymore) and it''s now been over 2 and a half years since the whole ordeal, but my father, instead of ever praising me for actually turning my life around, feels the need to throw it in my face how badly I screwed up every chance he gets. I failed to communicate to you a strong enough message about picking the right major in college so you could have decent job prospects. I was an advertising/pr major. I''m not happy with my job, my boss is an ass, but it has nothing to do with my major not being decent. I make decent enough money, especially for the area that I''m in and the whole area has low job prospects. We live here because FI loves his job. He constantly throws the drug thing and the major thing in my face despite me explaining to him repeatedly that these topics need to be off limits when we fight. They are in the past, irrelevant, and the discussion about them is over. I am now going to communicate to you a sufficiently strong message about an even more important topic. You are going to get very mad at me because of this, but I don’t care, because I am your father and it is my job to tell you this.

You would be making a huge mistake to invite Ben’s mother and step father to your wedding. I don’t care if Tom is OK with it right now. Ben is my ex-bf. I was really close to his mom and stepdad during the 4 years that we were dating (all of college). We went through a lot together. My relationship with my parents has always been rocky and there were numerous periods that we weren''t speaking for months at a time throughout college. Ben''s parents were always there for me. While we were dating, Ben''s sister passed away in a scuba accident. Going through this type of tragedy with anyone gives you a certain bond, and I definitely went through the whole thing with his family. Beyond all of this, his mom is just an awesome person and we never really had a mother-in-law/daughter-in-law relationship, but more of a friend relationship. After Ben and I broke up, his family reiterated numerous times to me that I would always be a part of their family and that even though he and I weren''t together that they still loved me. We''ve continued to be friends and talk every now and then. I really want to invite them (Ben''s mom and step dad) to the wedding because they''re important to me and FI agrees that if they''re important to me, then they should be there.


First, the relationship that Sharon has with you is not normal. It would be like Grace (FI''s mom) seeking to maintain a close friendship with Megan, Tom’s ex girl friend, or me trying to have a continuing relationship with Bryan or even Ben (Two of my exbfs) It isn''t the same at all though because neither my dad nor FI''s mom had relationships with our exes while we were dating. I''ve considered Sharon a friend for over 6 years now. I’m sure Sharon doesn’t see it that way, but it is wrong. A continuing relationship with the parents invites continued contact with Ben. I wouldn’t want any of you to be bitter enemies, or seek to hurt each other, but this relationship with Ben’s family is not right.


You had a strong attraction to Ben or you wouldn’t have been his girlfriend for so long. That doesn’t go away even when you come to your senses about realizing there is no future with someone. Ben has no sense of responsibility toward you, in my opinion. He wouldn’t hesitate to take any opportunity to be with you again, even briefly. He wouldn’t think so far ahead as to the impact it would have on your relationship with Tom. Even if I am wrong about that, and I don’t think I am, Ben’s judgment isn’t very good. You, on the other hand, are an impulsive and overly emotional person at times. You probably get that from me. Where you get it from doesn’t matter, it is something that should cause you to avoid any possibility of any involvement with Ben. This is the part that made me want to really kill him

. I can''t believe that my father thinks so little of me to think this. I''ve never cheated on anyone and I would certainly never cheat on FI. I love and respect my FI and would never do anything like that to him. Not to mention the fact that I''m not attracted to exbf in the slightest anymore and it''s been over 2 years since I broke up with him.


Second, having your former boyfriend’s parents at your wedding, when they were not friends of your parents to start with, might not be viewed very well by Tom’s parents. Tom’s parents are a far, far more important relationship for you than Ben’s. You are marrying into their family. If Tom wanted Megan’s parents invited to the wedding, and they were not otherwise friends of his family, I would be suspicious of him for a long time. FI does not think his parents would have a problem with me inviting my friends who happen to be the parents of my exbf to the wedding. And he told me that if they didn''t understand, then that was too bad because I should be able to invite people who are important to me.


Third, having them there is a cost you should not impose on me. I wouldn’t even feel comfortable having to see them at the wedding. If I saw them somewhere in public, I would be courteous and respectful to them, but having them at your wedding would be very uncomfortable for me. Had it come down to it, FI and I would''ve paid for them to be there.


Fourth, I think it is disrespectful to Tom. Even if he doesn’t think it is today, others may see it as such, and Tom may view it differently in the future. You can say all you want about my being old fashioned and this is the 21st century, but sometimes things are the same as they always have been, it is just the perception of youth that believes they are cooler, hipper, more relaxed, than their parents’ generation.


I know you will get angry, but so be it. I am your father, damn it, and it is my job to tell you this. Don’t screw things up with your future in laws, and don’t put yourself at risk to damage your future with a man who will be a wonderful husband to you and a wonderful father to your children.


If you don’t want to speak to me, fine, but I hope you will at least come to your sister’s recital. My sister was having a band recital which I ended up not attending. It was a long drive for me and I really didn''t want to deal with my parents at this point. My sister would''ve been around them the entire time so I wouldn''t have even been able to talk to her without them being there. [end email]

I was really mad after this email, but I decided that responding to him point by point would only make things worse. I''ve tried it in the past and he then just comes back at me refuting everything I said point by point. So I just wrote back, "I am definitely not coming to Megan''s recital. What you just said doesn''t even justify a response."

My cousins told me that I should forward what he''d said to my mom because she probably didn''t know everything he''d said. He does this a lot where he sends emails that say horrible things and mentions to my mom that he sent something, but downplays it and then she gets really mad at him. So I forwarded her the email and she responded saying that she essentially agrees with everything he said.

.

Then I got this new email from my dad:

You''ve succeeded in ruining the wedding experience for both me and your mother. I''ve run out of tolerance for your disrespectful behavior and run out of patience in dealing with your tantrums. Yesterday I sat down to make calls to cancel the wedding arrangements and began to write a check to refund the (FI''s parents)''s contribution, I was so upset with you, but Mother stopped me. This isnt just your wedding, it is a wedding your parents are throwing.
I dont know what I''m going to do at this point, but I am not interested in paying for all the unneccessary extras you just “have to have” The only unneccessary extra we''re having is chair covers, nor even in attending your wedding under these circumstances. Your behavior makes you undeserving of any consideration from me. I’ve put up with your crap for years, and it’s over.

Dont email me or call me, and don’t stop by the house when you are in town. I dont want to have anything to do with you at this point. [end email]

All this from a fight with my mom about invitations

.

At this point neither FI nor I want to have anything to do with my dad. We dont'' want him there. Makes it a sticky situation since my parents are paying for most of the wedding. I want to call everything off and just elope. We can''t afford to continue to throw the kind of wedding we were if we''re paying for it ourselves. At the same time though, I still really want my best friends and family (other than my parents) to be there. FI called his mom really upset asking her what we should do and she told us to wait it out. Even if we''re on speaking terms with my family by the time of the wedding, I''m still not going to want to have anything to do with my dad. I don''t want him walking me down the aisle and I don''t want a father daughter dance and that''s going to raise a lot of questions with other family members. None of my extended family knows how he is because he saves all of his outburts for when they''re not there.

I seriously don''t know what to do...

 

[rainbowtrout]

Ugh. If it were me:

Call off the big wedding. Scale it back, pay for what you can, invite your parents (in later years you WILL have wanted them there) and invite whoever else you damn well want to. Even have it on the same date you were going to originally so people aren''t inconvenienced.

Like it or not, money=power. So take it back and just do it yourselves.


My biggest rxn to the emails is that your father is butting in on things that AREN''T HIS BUSINESS, money or no money.

 

[Independent Gal]

Wow, Robbie. I don''t even know what to say except YOU POOR THING! That is truly horrible. Man oh man.

I wonder if your father is behaving like this because he''s emotionally confused about something completely other. It sounds like he''s angry at himself and taking it out on you. Maybe as you go through this rite of passage he''s looking back on his fathering and feeling like a failure?

I would bet that his issue with your ex''s parents is related to this: he knows that they were your surrogate parents while he was not doing such a good job of being your dad while you went through a rough time. So he is probably feeling it as theatening to HIM and his role as your dad, but can''t or won''t articulate that to himself, so he''s projecting his discomfort about it onto you FI and his parents.

I don''t know if you want suggestions or you just needed to vent, but if the former, here''s what I would do. Wait a couple of weeks for things to cool down. Then if you can bring yourself, to take a deep breath and say somethign like ''Dad, I love you so much, and that''s why it hurts me very badly when you seem to see me the way you do. You did a GREAT job of being a dad [even if you don''t really feel that] and I wouldn''t be so strong and happy today, and I wouldn''t have picked such a great guy if it wasn''t for your support and guidance." Or something like that. Even if that''s completely untrue, it may be what he needs to hear to settle down. Then suggest to your mom and dad a few sessions of family counseling to see if you can communicate with each other more effectively.

That may be impossible, I know.

But at least it might not hurt so much if you can understand that it''s probably about his own confusion and sadness, and not at all about YOU. That''d be my guess anyway. I bet he keeps bringing that stuff up because HE feels bad about it, not because he''s mad at YOU about it. Know what I mean?

In any case, I''m sending a million hugs your way. You''re still my ''bridol''

 

[sumbride]

Oh Robbie, I''m so sorry this is happening. Your father sounds really unbalanced. It does sound like he''s going through his own issues about your marriage... you''re the oldest, right? I agree with IG that he has some emotional distress about this.

Your decision to invite your good friends, that just HAPPEN to be your ex-bf''s parents, is NONE of his business. His strong reaction to it speaks of his own issues, not of any you have.

How likely is this to just blow over? Has he had these kinds of outbursts in the past? I know you''ve worked really hard to plan the wedding you want and I''d hate to see it explode over something that will be put aside in a few days. You will still hurt from it, of course, but I think the pain would be deeper if it meant you didn''t get the wedding you wanted. I definitely think you do need to distance yourself from your parents though. Their control over you should end as soon as possible. They sound very manipulative and toxic.

And for what it''s worth, no job out of college is perfect. It''s called paying your dues and should not make you, or anyone else, question your major or your choices. College is a place to develop your thought processes... it''s not "job training" in the slightest. Just because you are unhapy in your job now does not mean you will always be unhappy with your career. And the drug thing? That should SO be in the past. My cousin damn near died from heroin use and after multiple rehabs, he is clean and has turned his life around. And you know what we talk about with him now? Rock climbing. His masters in drug counseling. How well he''s doing. Everything but "you know, you really made a big mistake back there..." He KNOWS what he did wasn''t ok, that''s why he''s not doing it anymore. The fact that your dad keeps bringing up your mistakes does not help anything and it just shows how weak he is that he feels that is how he can control you. You''re a better person than that, and I think your life is going in the right direction whether he sees it or not!!!

 

[cara]

First off, I''m so very sorry you have to deal with this manipulation and toxicity. Makes all my family issues seem small potatoes. But...

I don''t know about "waiting for this to blow over". The original fight with your mom would have been a candidate. But your father''s toxicity, and your mother''s agreement, are different. Even if they came back with a "We''ve been completely unreasonable and want to apologize" statement next week, would that make it better? Would you want to make nice, pretend it never happened, continue planning the original wedding, walking on eggshells and hoping that there are no further outbursts? What about after the wedding, when you have some other fight and they decide to throw all the unreasonable costs back in your face?

The only way to regain some control of this situation is to pull out and plan what you and your FI can afford. Elope, have a destination wedding, throw a picnic in a park, or a scaled-back version of your original plans. I know that debt is generally not seen as a great tool for wedding planning but it does have a place if you go in with your eyes open. Maybe you would have done a destination wedding if you and your FI had funded it from the outset, but now you have some deposits in and maybe your guests have already made plans and it would be difficult to change locations too much. Whatever you do, don''t act passively waiting for your parents to control your fate. Come up with a plan with your FI and go for it.

 

[luckystar112]

Wow...your father is a nightmare! And I should know...my mother is the same way! Always bringing up things in the past because it knows it gets under my skin...always taking everything WAY too personally....always trying to take control.

You''re right....it''s none of his business whose on the invitation list. What I would do if I were you, is actually talk to your FI''s parents about it and make SURE they won''t care. (Even if they do care they are going to tell you they don''t, so you win either way) then tell your dad. It''s not like you''re inviting your ex to your wedding! Your dad sounds like he''s jealous of the relationship you have! I can understand not approving of guests, but that should be as far as it goes. Suck it up and get over it. Instead he sends you a multi-paragraphed letter about why he disapproves. You''re a big girl. You''ve obviously thought about it already...if I remember, you brought it up on here not too long ago.

If you really want to play along with his game, you should write him an email saying that he is right, and because he can explain it better that you can, you are going to forward his email to exbf''s parents and FI''s parents. LOL. I mean, if he can make empty threats than why can''t you?

 

[luckystar112]

Now that I'm over the initial shock...lol. When he says "don't call, don't email" do you think he is serious? It sounds like he is doing his very best to upset you, and it is working.

It must have really set him off that you forwarded his email to your mother. Is this the first fight you and your parents have gotten into in regards to the wedding? Have you been too picky about any aspect, even though you've been "nice" about it? I'm just trying to see where they are coming from. Maybe your mom was annoyed after you asked her to change the junior/senior/how the date was written?

I would write him back and say that you understand where he is coming from, but your friendship is not with your ex, it is with your ex's parents. If he feels that it is improper to cover those costs, than you will pay for it yourself. If he doesn't feel that he can attend your wedding (which will only be because he's embaressed for no reason) than you understand that you will have to scale it way back. I would make sure that you emphasize that if they decide not to come, it will be THEIR decision, because you obviously want them there. If they can live with that decision, and all of the consequences of that decision in the future, than so be it.

Because it sounds like he wants you to write him back some huge apology and agree not to invite them, tell HIM what a great job his is doing, tell HIM what a great father he is....but he is going about it the WRONG WAY. I don't know what he was doing waiting for you to get in a fight with you mother before bringing all of this up...it's not even related in any way shape or form. You probably could have had a much more productive conversation about it if he talked to you about it when your stress level wasn't already through the roof. What a nightmare! And you know, it's exactly what he wanted. It's how he's getting control of the situation, by making you sit around and wonder if he is really going to call off your wedding over this. It's sad. Even if you did apologize to him right now (which in my opinion you don't need to do) than it will appear to be because he threatened to cancel your wedding. Is that what he wants? Or does he want a genuine apology? He's going about things the wrong way...totally.

It really just reminds me of when I was younger and my mom would threaten to return all of my xmas gifts if I acted up. She probably would never do it...but the threat alone was enough to keep me on my tiptoes for a while!

The cheating thing is really insulting. I would definitely tell him in your next email that if he thinks you are so impulsive that you will cheat on your FI, that if he thinks that you don't love your FI enough to remain FAITHFUL, that he doesn't know you at all and that he probably shouldn't be paying for your wedding anyway.

YIKES Robbie, I'm so sorry you have to go through this! If I had to guess, I'd say that the wedding is going to go one as scheduled (only because I doubt he will really cancel it...then HE would look like the bad guy...this whole thing is all about him) but in the very small/minute chance that it doesn't, you can still have a very beautiful/meaningful wedding. And really, your parents threatening to back out is no way to fix the situation...if they are being serious than you guys are out for a rough life together.

 

[Maisie]

You poor thing. How awful for your father to hold your wedding to randsom. Just because he is paying doesn''t mean he can behave like this.

I honestly think he is completely overstepping the mark in deciding who you can and can''t invite to your wedding. It it was me I would elope. Let people know where you will be married and let them decide if they can join you.

If things carry on like this you will look back on your wedding day with sadness not happiness. You deserve the wedding of your dreams - with the people you love. If he can''t handle that then its his problem. You may have had problems in the past with your parents but its really inappropriate for them to keep throwing them back at you. As you have said - you turned things around and it sounds like you are doing really well now. Using an argument with your mother as an excuse to start attacking your past is very wrong.

Don''t let his issues make you think you are in the wrong. As I keep saying - It''s your wedding!!

Go somewhere lovely and get married with no pressures or bad feeling.

 

[Mara]

this goes against what the other girls are saying (aka oh your father just sounds SO MEAN)...but here are my thoughts. first off, nothing is ever as simple as it seems. i am reading a lot of information in your dad's posts...he said he is tired of putting up with your crap as he has for years. that is some serious frustration that goes far beyond this one situation and scenario. have you ever sat down with him to discuss your relationship?

this is your father. this is your mother. these are your parents, they bore you and raised you. sounds like you didn't have too hard of a life with them for the most part, is this wrong? i would say, have some respect for them. do you always talk to them like that? do you often have screaming matches with your mother where you hang up on her then scream at her when she calls back? i understand high emotion especially around weddings, but this is escalating very quickly way beyond anyone's control and you have the power to STOP IT, and not just get on your high dungeon, get insulted, and make it worse by reacting emotionally.

let me just say that my thoughts on this also stem from the fact that one of my cousins had his wedding last year and he had a blowout with his mom over his fiancee and his mom and stepdad pulled all financial support for the wedding a month before it happened, and did not come and did not have any of their friends come and also prevented his younger brother from coming and standing in as his best man. we thought for sure it would all blow over, i mean who doesn't attend their kid's wedding out of anger? but they didn't come and it's been about 7 months and they are still all not speaking. not to mention that they pulled off the wedding but it was a huge financial strain on them since the parents were paying for like 80% of it.

how incredibly sad is that situation?! we were shocked. first off i can't believe that his mom would do that to her son, she adores him. to not attend his wedding? wow that is a permanent wound that may never heal. and secondly, i think my cousin and his wife are being kind of immature about it as well. family is family and blood is BLOOD. you cannot let silly arguments get in the way of something this large. sure his mom was in the wrong in my opinion but it's still his mother. i know that his mom is going to regret for the rest of her life not attending her son's wedding and sharing the joy with them, and who knows what their relationship will be like in the future if they even have one. how many years of loving family were thrown by the wayside with that one big argument and then pride and stubbornness in the resulting months?? people's pride gets in the way so often.

so i would stay STOP. think about what you are doing. it's not about 'oh my god i can't believe HE said that' or that your mom agreed with him. it sounds like there are so many underlying issues going on here. it sounds to me like they feel as though you don't appreciate them or what they are doing for you. is that the case? i totally understand it's your wedding, but when parents chip in like they do, they feel a strong sense of say (this is why our parents did not pay one penny towards our wedding...we didn't want any accountability to them for anything) and they also feel probably a power struggle going on too. you are an adult now, you are getting married. nothing drives that point home like a wedding. i am sure your dad is emotional on his end too, freaking out about the thought of 'losing' his daughter. your mom might be feeling the same way. my mom got all emotional during my planning about how i was starting a NEW life with my husband and i was no longer her little girl (nevermind that i was 29, so i hadn't been her little girl for a long time but for whatever reason getting married somehow drove that point home)...it's an emotional time for EVERYONE involved.

so i have a lot of rambling points in this post but i really think you need to stop for a second and take a breather. stop listening to what your cousins are saying, stop reading things into what your dad is saying (where does he ever say he thinks you will cheat???), and really stop and listen to what he is saying. parents are older than us and MANY TIMES they are right in certain things they say and advice they give. you cannot be upset at your father for feeling like HE FAILED YOU when it came to the drug thing and the school thing (that is what he is saying by the way) and he wants to not fail you again this time and he is willing to risk your misplaced wrath by being honest and up front with you about something he feels is urgent to tell you. he wants you to be happy, wants your marriage to work.

do you see what i am saying here? pull yourself out of the 'woe is my, my parents suck' thing and really look at what they are saying to you. it might be hard because you are so close to the situation, but in your post here and his emails and all that i am reading a LOT that is not being spoken. there are other underlying issues here. no i don't think your dad is unbalanced or evil. no i don't think your mom is being mean. no i don't think you are ungrateful. i think there is a lot of other things going on here...and it can be up to you to stop the cycle and try to figure out what is going on and put it all together and get things back on track or else you might end up like my cousin and his family 9 months later with no one talking and bitterness just growing and growing. right or wrong they are your family. do not get caught up in something that can be permanent and NEVER forgotten.

from a wedding perspective, if this is truly 'your wedding', then you guys do what you can afford and you pay for it yourselves. let your parents know they are invited and you hold no ill will on changing things, but do it your way. and if you can't do that, then you might be at their mercy and having to put up with a bit of drama for the cashola they bring with them. but remember, they are your family. don't let things get worse.

 

[surfgirl]

Holy crap Robbie. I feel your pain. Ahhh, the Guilt gene! I've heard this tantrum before somewhere...Look, you're really upset right now and deservedly so. Take some time today and try to relax and take care of you. That's first off. I have to ditto IG's entire post. But I also wonder if you and your FI - and his parents since they have contributed to the wedding - could manage to throw your own wedding, albeit scaled back a bit? Is it possible?

As for what your father said to you? Totally and completely unacceptable. Without knowing him, he sounds like a jealous man who's feeling that his parenting was inadequate - he sounds like a child who is jealous of his BFF's other friend! Perhaps he or your mother has been unfaithful and this is where his neurosis' are coming from on the cheating thing? I mean no disrespect at all on that last point, just trying to figure out why on earth he'd accuse his own dear daughter of being unfaithful without any reason whatsoever! The pot smoking? Honey, pretty much everyone has smoked pot at one time or another in their lives. So you got into a little trouble with pot. Big freaking deal. It's not a problem anymore, right? And it's SO in the past that it's just mean and manipulative to even bring it up.

BTW, where is your dress right now? Is it in your possession? If not, get it in your possession ASAP. Your parents sound like they're on a vindictive bender right now and if it was me, I'd make sure my dress was in my house STAT.

This sentence, for me, said it all Robbie:

"This isnt just your wedding, it is a wedding your parents are throwing."

This is why we are eloping. There are other reasons but I would never ever allow anyone to pay for my wedding. People get weird about paying for weddings and seem to get really controlling over things they'd normally not be controlling over. My guess is your parents are sad and jealous that you have a better relationship with your ex's parents than with them and since this wedding is about them and their social standing (according to their comments), they are afraid of "what will the guests think!" if your ex's parents are there. It's childish and immature but that's what it sounds like to me. The other crap is just other crap. This is their big black tie extravaganza where they can show off and they dont want you to sully their evening with an ex's parents.

Maybe you and your FI can look into other wedding options this weekend and see if you can do something scaled back without your parents money. I do think if you want to have any future relationship with your parents you'll need to seek counseling, preferably with them. But cool off first and then decide what to do.

ETA: Mara has some good points too. But in the end you'll probably be happier paying for your own wedding. Are you going on a honeymoon? Why not turn that into a DW? Just a thought.

 

[rainbowtrout]

Have to say I agree with the underlying stuff in Mara's post--doesn't change the fact that he IS butting in on stuff not his business.

But like I said, you're going to have wanted them there later on.


RE, the relationship, since I was speaking of just the wedding earlier--

Surely there's a way to mend it for everyone. Don't demean yourself beyond reason, but try to save the relationship! At the end of the day, do you want your relationship with them to stop over some freaking STUPID wedding invitations. It's just stuff. Really. Its. just. stuff. And it's just your pride. Swallows easier than you think. I'm not saying the above is your fault, I'm saying sometimes fault doesn't matter. Obviously abusive parents, verbal or physical, are an exception.

My father will often do the "I'm your father so X" in similar words because he feels like he wasn't there enough for me when I was younger. My family tends to fight sort of cold and uber-reasonable though, so we lean away from large blowups--but its the same idea.

 

[sumbride]

I had another thought about this...

It sounds like your parents aren''t ready to see you as an adult who makes her own decisions. That may be why they are they are arguing with you so much. The shift from child to adult is a tough one and there is often arguing and pain involved for both sides. This is one of those things that younger brides have to face way more often than "older" brides. At 30, my parents have seen me as an adult for several years now so there was no question who would be doing the invitations (me) or making big decisions. They were gracious to pay for it and we''ve had a little back and forth on the number of guests, but it has mostly been pleasant. I''m also the 4th child in my family so they''ve been through this 3 times before and had learned how it works before. You''re still pretty young (if I am remembering correctly) and the oldest (right?) so this is new ground for them and they aren''t handling it well. Can you talk to them about how they are making you feel about this or would that end in another fight?

(Not to defend your mom, but my invitations had to be reprinted three times before they were right. They still aren''t perfect but I gave up.)

 

[aljdewey]

Here''s what I''m seeing from this exchange:

They are treating you like a kid, and you are acting like one. It''s hard to break that cycle. What''s more....both of you are more concerned about ''proving why I''m right''. Part of being adult is getting to the place where you can agree to disagree instead of having to prove why you''re right.

I seriously think the behavior on both sides has been impulsive and reactionary, and I''m sure a great deal of it on both sides comes from being stressed and feeling like you''re all hitting crunch time. Weddings can be stressful.

Your dad is well-meaning, and he can certainly have his opinion about inviting Ben''s parents. That said, though, if you want to change the way you communicate, it''s up to you to change your reaction. I''d have liked to see you say "I appreciate that you''re trying to look out for me, and I understand that''s what''s behind your opinion. I hope you can equally appreciate that while I value your insight, we just don''t agree on this, and it''s important for me to follow what I feel is right for me. If it turns out to be a mistake, then it''s a mistake I''ll have to learn from. I hope you can respect my decision on this, even though it doesn''t agree with what you''d do."

Another example: If you really don''t want to talk to your mom and she''s calling, I''d let it go into voicemail. Picking up the phone to SCREAM "I don''t want to talk to you" and then hanging up isn''t an adult way to handle things. I''d expect that from a 12-year old girl...but not from a young woman who''s mature enough to be on the brink of marriage. Refusing to go to your sister''s recital was escalatory as well.

Please know that I DO appreciate and understand how easy it is to boil over at some things......especially around something so emotionally charged as a wedding! BUT.....like Mara, I see frustration on both sides of this that stems from much earlier than the wedding.

Your dad is acting equally poor. Threatening to sit down and cancel the wedding is just reactionary and not terribly mature. It''s also taking things to a level that would be hard to recover from...and I''m surprised he doesn''t see that. Saying "don''t call me, don''t email me" is crazy and very short-sighted on his end, but I see that as stemming from feeling hurt.

I agree with Mara....I think both you and your parents would have regrets later on about not being at the wedding. I know you don''t feel like it should be up to you do make the first move to fix this, but Robbie....someone has to make the first move, and this is your chance to step up and try to initiate a new way to communicate.

I''d get in touch with your parents and say something along the lines of "I feel like we''ve all reacted badly recently, and there are many things I think we need to work out in how we communicate with each other. That won''t be an overnight process, but I don''t want us to make hasty decisions out of frustration now that we''ll all regret later. I know I''d have regrets if you weren''t there when I got married, and I''m fairly certain you would too. I''m thinking that the best thing for all of us might be for Tom and I to scale back the wedding to something smaller that we can more readily afford ourselves, and I''d like you to come. Let''s please don''t let this relatively small thing cause a big hurt that we can''t all get past."

Sometimes, you have to be the bigger person first, and I honestly think this is one of those times. I''d be really surprised if they don''t react differently if you approach it this way. I really hope both of you don''t let pride, stubbornness, and the need to be the ''one who''s right'' get in the way. This is too important. Good luck to you.

 

[cara]

Robbie, the biggest area I agree with Mara on is that you are partly complicit in the dynamic with your parents. You did get into a screaming match with your mother over the invitations. Even if she was being unreasonable (by insisting they will get done when they get done her way), if your complaint against your father is that he doesn''t fight fair by bringing up your (relatively recent) indiscretions, you need to hold yourself to that standard as well and fight fair with your mother. Which means no screaming matches with telephone slamming over invitations.

I also recall a few (poor dynamic) situations, like when you were trying to hide your new dress to avoid your father''s wrath. Not entirely adult behavior, even if you are "forced" to it by your father being controlling.

This does not mean that its all your fault or that your father isn''t fighting unfair, being ridiculous in his demands not to invite your exbf''s parents, or being incredibly hurtful.

What it does mean is that the wedding planning dynamic between you and your parents is not healthy. Mara''s point that you should step back and try to repair your relationship with your parents somewhat without further inflaming it is well, well taken. This could easily get much worse and cause a rift that lasts years. If they truly are toxic and horrible people you can always back away from them later but for now, salvaging the good in your relationship with them is an important step.

Which means recognizing the situation for what it is, and trying to find a productive, adult way to finance and plan your wedding that does not assume your parents will magically morph into different people that they have shown themselves to be.

Small point:
"You... are an impulsive and overly emotional person at times... t is something that should cause you to avoid any possibility of any involvement with Ben."

This does seem to imply that Robbie should avoid her ex-bf so that she doesn''t cheat. Emotionally or physically. While its best not to go marching off to war over it, especially as he didn''t actually use the word cheat, thats my read of it, and its not a pretty thing for your father to tell you he fears.

The money your parents give you comes with leaden tentacles attached. Please try to find a more adult way forward.

 

[princesss]

Oh, Robbie, I''ve got no advice for you (but there is some amazing advice that''s already been posted). All I can do is say I''m sending calming/destressing/find a way to resolve this thoughts your way and lots of hugs!

Try to take a few hours to do something without thinking about this situation. It''s going to wear you out, and I think your brain, body, and heart need a break before they can tackle the decisions and discussions in your future. Best of luck.

 

[Mara]

Date: 6/23/2007 2:31:29 PM
Author: cara

Small point:
'You... are an impulsive and overly emotional person at times... t is something that should cause you to avoid any possibility of any involvement with Ben.'

This does seem to imply that Robbie should avoid her ex-bf so that she doesn't cheat. Emotionally or physically. While its best not to go marching off to war over it, especially as he didn't actually use the word cheat, thats my read of it, and its not a pretty thing for your father to tell you he fears.

Cara, I did see that but I didn't take it to automatically imply she would cheat. He said she is impulsive and overly emotional. To me that doesn't equal he's just afraid she will cheat. Emotional cheating is just as dangerous and I see her father's point. I don't see it as much as him saying he would think she would do that (or she's THAT type of person as it was said earlier) but more just worried that she is putting herself in a position that might not be beneficial for her marriage in the future. Physical, emotional, whatever. I don't think it's insulting at all but rather a fair point considering that human nature does many times lead you in a direction you never meant to go, but if the 'situation' is there it might be too easy. As a parent it's quite obvious he wants his daughter to be happy and her marriage to succeed. But Robbie took it as him thinking she'd cheat, and of course that can be construed as insulting but I don't think it was MEANT that way. This is where the whole 'parent' thing comes into play as well. Sometimes parents say things and you are like what?? But they are always only trying to help...though sometimes in not the best way.

The other thing I wanted to say, Robbie, is that I don't think that your father is acting in a correct way either and I didn't mean to imply that. I see all parties at fault right now. You and your Mom screaming at each other. Your dad getting involved and possibly overstepping a bit. You escalating it by saying you won't go to your sister's recital (that would be a big deal in my family too), then you fwd'ing the email to your Mom (which can be construed as tattling), your Dad's email back..etc. It's just continuing to escalate. I totally agree with Alj's suggestion that you try to be the bigger person right now and talk to them in a rational way. Maybe give them a few days to let the dust settle on all ends. Tell them you would like some time for everyone to calm down and then try to setup a meeting or something, maybe at a restaurant where it can't get too crazy heated. Can your FI get involved and be a mediating party maybe, how is he feeling about all this?? Sometimes my husband can step back from my family and be more rational than I can because he's not blood with them kind of thing even though he is part of the family.

 

[Haven]

Robbie, I''m so sorry to hear that you are in this situation right now, it must be terribly painful. That being said, I must say I also agree with Mara and Alj--I think it would be wise for you to try to step back and gain some serious perspective here.

As for whether or not your father is butting into business that is not his, I must say that, regardless of whether or not it is right--when you accept someone else''s funds to pay for an event, every aspect of that event becomes their business. I know it is difficult to see it this way when it is your own wedding, but please take a moment to recognize how generous your parents are being by paying for your wedding. They certainly would not fund this event if they did not love you very much, and the fact that they are doing so tells me that they are well-meaning, and they only want good things for you. The bottom line is if you wanted to have control over every decision about this wedding, then you must be able to pay for those decision, as well. This is the same reason we have to follow our parents'' house rules as children--we have no choice, they''re paying the rent and putting clothes on our back and food in our mouths. When children accept money from their parents for their wedding, the same logic stands.

When you say that at this point neither you nor FI want anything to do with your dad, and you don''t want your parents to be there--is this a sentiment that you had before all of this fighting began? I''m guessing no, since you accepted their money to pay for the wedding. Please reconsider writing them out of this part of your life--I''m saying this as someone who had this very same emotional, irrational reaction to similar situations in my own past, and as someone who has since grown up and realized that I regret every single time I effectively cut someone out of my life like this. I know how it feels right now, and you are certainly entitled and right to feel betrayed and angry at being spoken to like this, however this will not change the fact that your parents are your parents, and it''s likely you will look back on this time and wish that they had been there for this simcha of yours.

Despite the comments that have been made from both sides, I think it is still very clear that you have loving parents, that your parents care about you very much, and that you have a wonderful man who wants to marry you, and you him. I think all of these details about invites and wedding guests and nasty comments made will seem so unimportant when you stand back and realize you are about to enter into a marriage with a wonderful man who supports you, and your parents, upon learning this joyous news, offered up their checkbooks and their time to give you the wedding you two deserve.

Please don''t lose sight of what is important, here--after all, a wedding is all about mishpacha, and yours seems to love you very, very much.

 

[neatfreak]

Robbie, first I want to send hugs to you and tell you not to do anything rash just because you''re upset.

But I have to agree with Mara''s post. You really need to calm down and figure out WHY he''s saying these things and WHY you''re acting the way you are to your mother.

Something like this probably won''t blow over unless you can figure out what you''re doing wrong and meet them halfway to resolve it.

 

[rainbowtrout]

Hey, I don''t usually do this, but I took the liberty of skimming back though your previous posts about the wedding--and this is a LONG way from your first fight with your parents about it! While that doesn''t justify anyone''s behavior, it also means it isn''t out of the blue. You and your parents obviously have very different ideas on what should happen and what them paying means in terms of their "say"...

 

[Kaleigh]

I agree with Mara and Alj. I see both sides, and think you need to take a step back and take a deep breath. I loved what Alj said about how you should conduct the conversation with your father. You have to try to resolve this in a calm adult manner. No more screaming, hanging up the phone on your mom. I know emotions run high, and I think the way your dad acted was childish. But going forward try to resolve issues without getting emotional. That''s exactly what he is expecting of you. Surprise him with a new calmer and mature you.

And I am sorry you are going through this, but I think you can turn things around and work it out. Good luck!!!

 

[whatmeworry]

Robbie, sorry to hear about this. But it''s more than just about invitations. Alj has some really good advice. Please take a cool off period and don''t do anything rashly. I''m rooting for you.

 

[musey]

Robbie, I don''t have the life experience to offer advice on this. I just really wanted to post and say that I''m sorry things have come to a head with your parents, and at such an unfortunate time--that should be one of the happiest times of your life!! I hope that you get some good advice from good friends, and that things work out well in the end. Sorry again that I can''t offer any help!! Hugs!

 

[bee*]

Date: 6/23/2007 2:53:33 PM
Author: Haven


As for whether or not your father is butting into business that is not his, I must say that, regardless of whether or not it is right--when you accept someone else''s funds to pay for an event, every aspect of that event becomes their business. I know it is difficult to see it this way when it is your own wedding, but please take a moment to recognize how generous your parents are being by paying for your wedding. They certainly would not fund this event if they did not love you very much, and the fact that they are doing so tells me that they are well-meaning, and they only want good things for you. The bottom line is if you wanted to have control over every decision about this wedding, then you must be able to pay for those decision, as well. This is the same reason we have to follow our parents'' house rules as children--we have no choice, they''re paying the rent and putting clothes on our back and food in our mouths. When children accept money from their parents for their wedding, the same logic stands.

Im so sorry to hear about your arguments Robbie-I have to agree with the above statement though. If you want to have your wedding the way you want it, you will have to fund it yourselves. D and I are planning to pay for the majority of ours and even though his parents are planning to give us a tiny bit of money and mine the same, his mother has already told me of some things that she would like (we''re not even engaged yet!!). If someone else is giving their money, they do have a say. Hope that things get sorted for you. I agree with what Mara says also.

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 6/23/2007 4:22:44 PM
Author: whatmeworry
Robbie, sorry to hear about this. But it''s more than just about invitations. Alj has some really good advice. Please take a cool off period and don''t do anything rashly. I''m rooting for you.

Ditto here too.

 

[Mrs Mitchell]

Robbie,
I have nothing to add in the way of advice, but I just wanted to say I hope you find a way through this that leaves you happy. I had major problems with my parents when I got engaged. Their advice, in no uncertain terms, was not to marry him (my husband is older than me and they had a big problem with that). In the end, I invited them to the wedding DH and I paid for (not what it would have been if my parents had paid, but magical and wonderful because I married Jamie and nothing else mattered). They came, they were fine, we are fine now. It was hard, but in the end our wedding was perfect in every detail. We made our cake, my MOH did our flowers -friends helped out and it was fabulous. I realised how much our friends loved us.

Only you and your FI can decide what to do now, but whatever happens, protect the relationship you have with FI first and foremost. He is your future.

I wish you every happiness and I really hope you can find a way through this difficult time.
Thinking about you.

Jen

 

[Maria D]

Robbie, so sorry you are going through this. Mara, aljdewey, cara & others offer excellent insight. When I read your post I thought *exactly* what Independent Gal wrote:

>>I would bet that his issue with your ex''s parents is related to this: he knows that they were your surrogate parents while he was not doing such a good job of being your dad while you went through a rough time. So he is probably feeling it as theatening to HIM and his role as your dad, but can''t or won''t articulate that to himself, so he''s projecting his discomfort about it onto you FI and his parents.<<

Your father doesn''t fight fair. To me, the reference to drug use & college major, although couched in the ''these were my failings language'', were simply digs to put you down and make him ''right'' in what he was about to say next (don''t invite the ex-BF''s parents). But just because he doesn''t fight fair doesn''t mean that it''s OK for you to exacerbate things. When you forwarded the email to your mom your intention was to get her angry at him. You say that you have done this before; basically ''tattled'' on Dad to Mom so that Mom would know how inappropriate/bad/immature Dad is being and get mad at him. You are on your way to being a married woman; you aren''t going to want anyone interfering with your marriage but that''s exactly what you are doing with your parent''s marriage.

Of all the stuff in your Dad''s email, the only important thing (to me) that needs to be addressed is this: "I wouldn’t even feel comfortable having to see them at the wedding. If I saw them somewhere in public, I would be courteous and respectful to them, but having them at your wedding would be very uncomfortable for me." Your response to this was that you and FI would have paid for the dinner. Even though your father did start off by saying the cost shouldn''t be imposed, the cost is not the point! He''s not comfortable with them there! If it''s more important to you to have these friends that acted as ''surrogate parents'' at your wedding than your own parent''s comfort, that is the real issue. Now I''m not saying that it isn''t a shame that your Dad can''t be a mature grown-up and accept your friendships. It is a shame but it is what it is. All the other stuff he wrote, to me, is immature crap. Age does not guarantee maturity, unfortunately!

You could be the bigger person and visit your parents in person and make things better. Email and even phone conversations are not the answer, as you know. I really hope you can work it out.

 

[VRBeauty]

Robbie: I'm sorry you and your family are going through this. I won't try to analyze the situation except to say that it doesn't sound entirely unfamiliar. My parents were also "old school" when I was your age, coming from a culture where children really didn't exist as separate entities until they were married (if then) and it was the parents' job to mold and shape them, not to help them grow into the persons that they were meant to be. It always came across as controlling to me and I was always poised to react to it. Many years later my relationship with my parents is much better, but it will never be as open as I would like. So that's where I'm coming from, and why I'll probably be sounding a little preachy

:

Personally I think your safest bet is to scale the wedding back to what you and your FI can afford or are comfortable financing. Postpone it if you need to. As nice as it would be to have "the perfect" wedding, the important thing is that you and your FI exchange your vows in the presence of a a few key people who you know will truly celebrate with you and support you through your marriage.

I think it's equally important to get to a point where you can make a decision without anger and without blaming your parents or yourself. Yes, what your father said is out of line. On the other hand, you went into this wedding planning partnership knowing that your parents are controlling and manipulative. So the issue from my perspective is not that they've done this horrible thing to you, but that you need to move on to Plan B because it's becoming clear that this co-planning/financing arrangement is not working, and is not good for you or your parents.

By all means invite your parents and sister -- but I also think you need to state your piece about what he said about you and your former BF, either in person or by letter.

* hugs * to you whatever you decide.

ETA: I should clarify that I hope you and your parents will work things out so that you can continue with the current wedding plans....

 

[snlee]

I think Mara and alj has given you some great advice. I see all parties at fault. You need to calm down and work things out with your parents. I hope things get better soon robbie.

 

[decodelighted]

I highly recommend that you check out the "Our Fathers are Narcissits" thread over on Indie Bride''s Kvetch area. From previous posts of yours, I think that I remember similar behavior from him in the past. Irrational outbursts, not fighting fair, punishing behavior etc etc.... and that your mother kind of tip-toes around him & is shocked that you don''t as well. Forgive me if I''m misremembering ...

I really don''t know what I''d do in your situation. Probably wait for a few days (see if there any signs of it blowing over) and, if not, seriously consider cancelling the "family paid for" wedding & planning something simpler that you can control as a couple completely.

I agree with Sumbride that this is partially about them not seeing you as an adult yet and unfortunately that''s not so instantly fixable -- ESPECIALLY not with tantrum behavior in return. Stay on higher ground. Stay calm. Refuse to fight. Refuse to raise your voice. Don''t whine or hang-up or behave in any immature ways in their presense. Eventually they''ll see you differently & hopefully respond accordingly. But it takes time. More time than you have before the wedding. That doesn''t mean they can''t participate if you want them too -- just that it will probably be a negotiated short-term truce until the true seperation & emotional stuff gets resolved .. perhaps over the next FEW YEARS.

 

[oshinbreez]

Robbie,

Sorry you''re going through this.

But, I DO see his point about having your ex''s parents there. I understand that they are your friends, but I think it would be awful ackward for your parents and your FI parents to have them at your wedding.

When your father said he''d feel uncomfortable with them there, you should have respected his feelings. You may not understand or realize things now, but when you have your own kids, you will.

I hope everything can be straightened out for all of you. If you don''t fix this ASAP, it could take years or possibly never get corrected. That would be a shame. Would you really want to live without your parents over something so trivial?