Megxit

[AGBF]

Why negotiate if they truly want to walk away from it all?
If they believe they can stand on their own two feet as a brand, then they should drop the HRH and all that comes with it without milking the royal connections.

I disagree. Why should the couple be unable to speak to their own family? There is going to be a huge change of some kind that will affet everyone. It is possible that members of The Royal Family have feelings, just as we do, and that they want to discuss it amongst themselves. William and Harry were very close as children. Certainly some remnants of that bond and memories of what ot was like to worry about what the press could do to one's famiily must remain and bind them. There are also other famililial tes. These people, although royal, are also human.I do not believe that Harry and Meghan care only about retaining status. (It was their choice not to give their child a title.) If they did, they would not have taken this step. Perhaps they want to maintain good relations with Harry's family.If being royal does not make one "special", then being royal does not make one less than human and not subject to human feelings such as a longing for the few people you loved and grew up with.

 

[dk168]

It feels like Brexit, in that they don't want to be part of "The Firm" yet they are trying to cherry pick what they fancy to keep, etc., etc...
I really feel sorry for the Queen who has to deal with yet another family scandal, as if she does not have enough on her plate!

DK

 

[Rhea]

We don't know what any one wants yet. No one offical has said anything to the public. Unless I missed it? I've been trying to follow, but the conjecture about what the couple wants or expects without any facts is driving me mad.

I know royals are different, but...
Our friend has a family business and his eldest two siblings passed it over. It was difficult, and our friend's family isn't in the international spotlight with the press hounding them constantly. Not wanting to be in the family business does not mean that one does not want to part of the family though. Once those decisions have been made it can make family life easier and less conflicted with everyone knowing, feeling comfortable and settling into their roles.

 

[msop04]

We don't know what any one wants yet. No one offical has said anything to the public. Unless I missed it? I've been trying to follow, but the conjecture about what the couple wants or expects without any facts is driving me mad.

Exactly.

 

[Matata]

When I read that Meghan and Harry returned to the UK without Archie, I found it odd. Being the strongly protective parents they are, I wondered why they wouldn't want him close to them during what they knew would be a difficult time rather than leaving his caretakers vulnerable to the media without them present. Then I remembered an article I read about the Queen have legal custody of all the grandchildren and wondered if that was one of the reasons they left Archie in Canada -- so he couldn't be used as a bargaining chip when negotiating with the Queen et al.

Why Kate and William Technically Don't Have Custody of Their Own Children

Technically, the Queen has custody.

www.marieclaire.com

 

[Tartansparkles]

I think they left the baby behind (in Canada) because they'd already made their decision and I suspect that their trip this week to the Canadian embassy (in the UK) possibly had more to do with signing paperwork rather than to thank to Canadian people for their hospitality. (Pure conjecture on my part).

The news is reporting today that a meeting of high heidyins (important people) will take place tomorrow (Monday) and that Meghan's dogs are already on their way to Canada.

Nobody ever knows what does on behind closed doors, royal or otherwise.

I think their body language, in photos and on TV news reports, conveys a very loving couple towards one another and I wish them all the best.

 

[Voldemort]

The media is so awful to Meghan. I feel so bad for her. People just love to bash her like they know her personally... it’s insane. I hope they find a happier, more peaceful life.

I couldn't agree more. Harry was born into the family, he'll always be a royal.. he'll always be a Prince. I just wish they'd have given Meghan a chance. I don't think she had any idea it was going to be so difficult. I believe Harry is simply wanting to protect his sweet tiny family and who can blame him.

I've loved royals since forever.. but there's a routine and nastiness. Breaks my heart.

I'm wishing Harry and Meghan and their family - and hopefully another baby in the future - all the best.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Years back, Brits complained about the Queens income. She agreed to give up some of her income or pay some expenses herself. All good!. Now, I am reading from this thread that Harry is looked on as a freeloader if he accepts money from his father. You all think Prince Charles shouldn't be giving part of that income to Harry, as it comes from a National Trust. It has been said it belongs to the British Citizens. Sorry folks but you need to look at this in another way. Prince Charles , by law, has been given the interest from the trust.(usually it works that way). It belongs to him, not the people of Britian. It is much like a US PRES IS PAID $400,000, which comes out of the taxpayers money. I doubt that anyone here would tell or suggest the American Presudent not give money to his children. The money, no matter the source, belongs to him and he can do whatever he wants with it. So too is with Prince Charles. He can do whatever he wishes with that money. It no longer belongs to the British people. It belongs to him.\

I have lived in England and I truly did not find them racist. In fact I thought they were less racist than America. I did however find that schooling, from elementary thru Univ stressed social class much more than America. Class defines Brits more than Americans from what I saw.

I'm saying it again, I like Harry. He doesn't seem stupid to me. He'll be fine. His personality will win people over.

Just my 2 cents.
Annette

 

[voce]

Frankly I’ve read more racists comments about Brits on this thread than I’ve read about MM in the press here!

Let’s not forget it’s not us Brits who had apartheid/segregation, we actually treated African American service men better than they were treated at home.

I think in the right circles, nobody is racist. Unfortunately, there's trashy people everywhere, in every country, in every echelon of society, who are racist. No nation is racist free.

I don't recall where people have made racist comments about Brits on this thread. There's been some stereotyping, including some of us calling Brits "snooty" or "classist", but stereotypes are stereotypes, and not necessarily linked to one's genetics or the color of one's skin.

The impression that I as an American get from shows such as Downton Abbey, which I think has been quite a success, is that British culture still venerates high society and propriety (i.e. the stiff upper lip Meghan Markle had not been able to maintain in the face of trashy tabloids). What this means practically, is that it seems a lot of Brits consider certain facts beneath drawing attention to, so if the Sussexes were to try to fight the hateful Daily Mail, which they have, by virtue of their lawsuit, they draw attention and criticism because such things should be "beneath" them, and they are "acting with their heart instead of their head" or something.

I think the criticism comes from a lack of sympathy, from not seeing them as human beings, from expecting them to act "better" than the average person.

I think Britain is quite a progressive society, and I don't doubt that the British state treats minorities equally or even above average.

From what I know, the American government also treats African American employees equally. However, that does not mean America is not racist. I've heard that at least 90% of middle class African Americans got to be middle class because they work for the government, so it's the government bureaucracy that helped them in a society where many people still perceive them as "lesser" or "other". You cannot negate that a phenomenon exists by pointing out one instance that seems to work out in a different way. I don't think anyone is arguing that there's no racism in America.

I really feel sorry for the Queen who has to deal with yet another family scandal, as if she does not have enough on her plate!
DK

I do feel sorry for the queen as well, but surely this is only a scandal if people make it out to be. This is a couple of kids wanting more independence and privacy, I think, not another child molester. Selfish or not, I don't think anyone should be as shocked or outraged by this as much as by Prince Andrew who still denies wrongdoing.

 

[Austina]

@smitcompton a lot of Charles‘ income comes from the Duchy of Cornwall, not the National Trust. If you die intestate in the Duchy, your estate goes to him. There have been cases of people’s relatives trying to claim what should’ve been theirs, and the Duchy fighting them for it. The Queen agreed to pay income tax, a tax that the rest of the working people in the UK HAVE to pay.

 

[Snowdrop13]

Also the Duchy is used for income for the Prince of Wales. As soon as the Queen dies it will pass to William which is Harry’s big problem, there’s no guarantee William would use the money to fund him and his heirs forever.

You can’t extrapolate anything from Downton Abbey! It’s set a hundred years ago when things were very different in the UK and everything was way more unequal!!

 

[voce]

You can’t extrapolate anything from Downton Abbey! It’s set a hundred years ago when things were very different in the UK and everything was way more unequal!!

You don't think the success of a show that romanticizes and glorifies the upper class says anything about the British people today? You don't think nostalgic TV shows reflect anything about present day values? Do you think I'm extracting everything I know about Britain from only period dramas, not the BBC and how British media comment about issues? I hope not. (If that's what you believe, I'm not going to waste time disproving it. Belief is often times distant from truth, and wholly entrenched in the desires of the one believing.)

 

[lissyflo]

You don't think the success of a show that romanticizes and glorifies the upper class says anything about the British people today? You don't think nostalgic TV shows reflect anything about present day values?

I make the following comment tongue in cheek. I’ve just looked up the box office figures for Downton Abbey: the US revenue seems to be $96m , with remaining worldwide revenues elsewhere of $94m. By your logic, it would appear to be principally you Americans who are glorifying that bygone era.

 

[Austina]

I don't recall where people have made racist comments about Brits on this thread. There's been some stereotyping, including some of us calling Brits "snooty" or "classist", but stereotypes are stereotypes, and not necessarily linked to one's genetics or the color of one's skin.

Labelling Brits snooty or classist is a sweeping generalisation, I don’t know any one who is. The term snooty is derogatory and I’ve only ever heard it used in connection with British people, ergo it’s racist.

 

[arkieb1]

IMHO, "snooty" isn't a racist term, it's a classist term. I've met plenty of Americans that were racists and plenty of British that were classist both classism and racism exist everywhere on the planet, Britain just has I'd argue stronger more discriminatory class divisions when you get into the upper levels.

 

[Tekate]

It's funny that perception thingy. I perceived that they were trying to appease grandma because Harry loves her and respects her and carve out a life for his family. I don't feel one bit sorry for grandma, she's a figurehead as the whole family is. I suppose for tourism they are big bucks and people visit England to see the castles, jewels and the past. She should retire. Wanting to go out on your own and still respect the crown as best they can. To me it's akin to a family of politicians for centuries and all of a sudden the grandson wants to be an actor (in America) oh the horror of it! To me there is certainly a 'class system' in England, racism I don't know, I only know how it's here in the USA. In the USA we have class and racism.

It seems to me he was hugely affected by his mom's death and he's willing to do what it takes to keep his family safe.

It bother's Brits I'm sure because of all that he has, the titles, the money, the prestige, the glamour, somebody above said he's not too bright, I wonder about that, because he's smart enough to want safety and to build a life of his own.

It feels like Brexit, in that they don't want to be part of "The Firm" yet they are trying to cherry pick what they fancy to keep, etc., etc...
I really feel sorry for the Queen who has to deal with yet another family scandal, as if she does not have enough on her plate!

DK

 

[voce]

I make the following comment tongue in cheek. I’ve just looked up the box office figures for Downton Abbey: the US revenue seems to be $96m , with remaining worldwide revenues elsewhere of $94m. By your logic, it would appear to be principally you Americans who are glorifying that bygone era.

Well thank you! Since you know my logic better than I do (I don't see how my remarks lead to this if one process then with a cool and calm mind), why don't you just quote me every time with a logical fallacy you'd like to attribute to me?

Since you want to talk numbers, the facts are that the American population is five times the size of the UK's, yet that movie you're referring to grossed about 2.5 times, which means that on a per capita basis your average Brit is still consuming that type of media at almost double the rate of the average American. Not to mention the fact that, the artistic direction of the show and movie, no matter where it grossed more in box offices, from the screenplay to casting, was overwhelmingly if not solely done by Brits.

I meant no disrespect and was not entirely serious when I responded to kenny's questions with my impression that Brits are snooty. English is my second language, after all, and I did not realize how negative the connotation is to all of you.

I'm not trying to vilify anyone, though I do have some contempt for tabloids. I'm just trying to say have a little more sympathy and don't expect too much from people just because they're born into certain roles. Class and "noblesse oblige", to me, are outdated concepts.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Thank you Augustine. I did not know anything about the Duchy. While I understand your point about where some of the funds come from(intestate) I don't see that Charles should be made to feel guilty due to that circumstance. (Charles is my least favorite of the Royals) I am also glad you refreshed my memory about the Queen paying income tax, when she had never paid any with all her wealth.

In America, it is also my opinion that people sometimes make the mistake of confusing social class and racism. I have not only experienced this in a project I worked on, but had to explain it to a audience of mainly black people. On occasion it is simple social class that is the discriminatory factor.
Social classes and racism can be found in most cultures. Some stress one thing, some stress other factors. I guess we have keep trying for that better world.

I would agree with Tekate that the Queen is holding on way too long. She should have retired.

Just One Womans Opinion.

Annette

 

[partgypsy]

Has anyone seen this article? It's honestly appalling. I think people who say, "well she knew what she was getting into" maybe hasn't been reading the newspapers.

Here Are 20 Headlines Comparing Meghan Markle To Kate Middleton That Might Show Why She And Prince Harry Are Cutting Off Royal Reporters

Over the years, Meghan has been shamed for the same things for which her sister-in-law, Kate, has been praised.

www.buzzfeednews.com

 

[Tekate]

Has anyone seen this article? It's honestly appalling. I think people who say, "well she knew what she was getting into" maybe hasn't been reading the newspapers.

Here Are 20 Headlines Comparing Meghan Markle To Kate Middleton That Might Show Why She And Prince Harry Are Cutting Off Royal Reporters

Over the years, Meghan has been shamed for the same things for which her sister-in-law, Kate, has been praised.

www.buzzfeednews.com

Aww this is so sad. thanks for posting

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

I disagree. I am not a monarchist. I believe that a republican democracy, like the one the United States was designed to be, with true division of and separation of powers is the best form of government yet divisied for large nations. (I like direct democracy for small nations.)

I believe that Queen Elizabeth has faithfully served her country for many years, however. I do not see her as someone who has done nothing and who should be dismissed even if one does not believe that she has any special status by being "royal". I think her hard work should cause her to be recognized as someone who deserves respect. (Entertaining Donald Trump was a feat of great fortitude in itself. Do you think she did that for her personal pleasure in his company?)

I would faithfully follow the United States into the gates of hell but i do not ever want to have an elected president, i can't stand our present Prime minister
the Queen is above politics and all the filth associated with it
also her skills at diplomacy and long standing relationships with world leaders built up over a life time should never be undervalued

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Thank you for this!

I didn't know that was how the Duchy worked and I appreciate your explanation. I was one of the ones who said I didn't mind Charles supporting Harry. I didn't understand that was where and how the money came from. I've changed my mind and now agree that their combined inhertience and previous earnings should be suitable to start their endeavours should their step away from working royals proceed.

-----

I'm still not bothered how this turns out (after sorting money, security and visa issues), I don't think most of us are, but I hope the time is taken to sort things out properly. It's important and doing so paves the way for William and Catherine's children Charlotte and Louis too. They don't have a direct line to the throne, barring anything terrible happening, and this may expand their options for their own futures.

I'm disappointed that people are (seemingly) blaming us racist, classist Brits, or even the royal family. We don't know what caused this or why. The gutter media has been incredibly harsh. The Daily Mail, which often cited and linked on PS, is a trashy newspaper. I wouldn't be caught dead with one. I don't know the US equivalent, but it's not quality or to be trusted. Sections of British society might be racist or classist. The royal family might be toxic for the couple. Or the unrelenting red tops might just be unbearable. We just don't know.

There is a really fasinating and informative documentary on the Dutchy of Cornwall that i think coinsided with Charles' 70th
It screened on tv just recently
Much good work has been done under his leadership- (preserving architecture, creating jobs and homes) its a really interesting and informative watch if you get a chance to see it

 

[distracts]

Frankly I’ve read more racists comments about Brits on this thread than I’ve read about MM in the press here!

Let’s not forget it’s not us Brits who had apartheid/segregation, we actually treated African American service men better than they were treated at home.

Before anyone gets on their high horse about my comments, my parents were immigrants to this country in the 50’s, so I’m not a racist.

Labelling Brits snooty or classist is a sweeping generalisation, I don’t know any one who is. The term snooty is derogatory and I’ve only ever heard it used in connection with British people, ergo it’s racist.

... wow ...

I respectfully request that you read a LOT more about racism before you start talking about it. The lack of understanding you have shown about racism is a prime example of how people can be very racist and classist without realizing it. Your ignorance of the problem does not mean the problem does not exist.

 

[Austina]

I understand very well about racism without being lectured by you @distrcts, my parents were immigrants in the 1950’s and subjected to racism. My point is that Harry & MM have not been subjected to racism by the British press or the British people, and labelling us as snooty or classist, when these labels are only being used about a particular race, i.e. us Brits, is a form of racism.

We are a very multi cultural society in the UK, and nobody I know is a racist, I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, but if I were to have made such statements about Americans in general, I’m sure I would have caused offence.

If I were a racist, I’d hardly be delighted that my son is marrying a lovely Vietnamese girl, or have just spent Christmas with her entire family.

 

[jordyonbass]

I think they're a bit naive if they think that leaving the royal family is going to take the spotlight off them, it's only going to be more intense now. He was probably the person that the mainstream media paid attention to the most, that won't change now whether they're royals or not. The cat is out of the proverbial bag now.

On a more light hearted note; my grandmother and Di were cousins, which means I'm technically related to the royal family. Maybe I can take his place?

 

[lissyflo]

On a more light hearted note; my grandmother and Di were cousins, which means I'm technically related to the royal family. Maybe I can take his place?

We'd be delighted to have you, as long as you bring opals. Lots of opals!

 

[lissyflo]

Well thank you! Since you know my logic better than I do (I don't see how my remarks lead to this if one process then with a cool and calm mind), why don't you just quote me every time with a logical fallacy you'd like to attribute to me?

I did very clearly say at the beginning of my post that it was tongue in cheek - I was joshing with you to try to cut through the antagonism that has hit this thread. Apologies, as you seem to have taken offence.

But as you answered tetchily, let me defend myself. I don't believe I quoted a logical fallacy - your post clearly questions why someone wouldn't believe that the success of a show says something about the British people today.

You don't think the success of a show that romanticizes and glorifies the upper class says anything about the British people today? You don't think nostalgic TV shows reflect anything about present day values?

I was trying to (light-heartedly, hence the tongue-in-cheek comment) point out the inconsistency in that - why does Brits watching the show speak of their desire to romanticise and glorify the upper class, but the same somehow isn't true of American audiences watching the film? You're saying I claim to know your logic, but at the same time you yourself are claiming to know the hidden motives for an entire nation watching a film. Seriously?

Over and out for me on this thread as it seems to be bring out the b**ch in me.

 

[jordyonbass]

We'd be delighted to have you, as long as you bring opals. Lots of opals!

I'll just add them to the crown jewells bahahahaha I have some nice Opal but I'm not sure it's that nice

 

[arkieb1]

@Austina - I don't think anyone is suggesting you specifically are racist, or that the general British population is, in Australia we had pieces in our media from your trash tabloids that were full of racially driven negative statements about Meghan and her background before, during and after their wedding.

Perhaps your mainstream media is a lot better, I'm not in Britain I can only judge by some of the things that were reposted in our media.

When I referred to classist discrimination I'm talking about something quite different to racism.

 

[voce]

I understand very well about racism without being lectured by you @distrcts, my parents were immigrants in the 1950’s and subjected to racism. My point is that Harry & MM have not been subjected to racism by the British press or the British people, and labelling us as snooty or classist, when these labels are only being used about a particular race, i.e. us Brits, is a form of racism.

We are a very multi cultural society in the UK, and nobody I know is a racist, I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, but if I were to have made such statements about Americans in general, I’m sure I would have caused offence.

If I were a racist, I’d hardly be delighted that my son is marrying a lovely Vietnamese girl, or have just spent Christmas with her entire family.

I think you are not understanding the term racism. Brit is a nationality, not a race. As you say, the UK is a multi cultural society, this representing many races. You are taking offence on behalf of all Brits, and I on the other hand would not be offended if you called Americans racists. I would admit that America has a lot to work on and not assume that the label is unfair or being applied to all Americans.

The fact that you are delighted by your son marrying a Vietnamese girl means at most that you are a progressive. It doesn't preclude racism. If you say you aren't a racist, I believe you, but it may be perfectly plausible to have favorable biases for some races and unfavorable ones for other races, and still be racist. I think you are proving distracts' point.

I was born in China and naturalized in the United States. I've been educated in America, have been here since age 7, and have been American for all of my adult life. Yet in DF's Canadian English family they predominantly think of me as Chinese, not as American. They think America is characterized by Trump and gun violence and make such remarks without thought that I would need hurt by such stereotypes, because they think of me as Chinese, not American. When I was first dating my DF their assumption was that I was doing so for his money and so I could immigrate to Canada, and I felt insulted by such assumptions. They love me now and make me feel very welcome, but still don't think of me as American, because my race is to them a more defining factor. No matter how much I try to stress to them that I identify as American, they still identify me as Chinese. This, I feel, is another type of racism. It's not ill meaning, but the unconscious attitude is "you are Chinese more than you are anything else, and we can't see you or identify you as what you want to be identified by, because we can't look past what you look like."

I hope your future daughter in law won't be thought of perpetually as the Vietnamese girl.

I did very clearly say at the beginning of my post that it was tongue in cheek - I was joshing with you to try to cut through the antagonism that has hit this thread. Apologies, as you seem to have taken offence.

But as you answered tetchily, let me defend myself. I don't believe I quoted a logical fallacy - your post clearly questions why someone wouldn't believe that the success of a show says something about the British people today.

I was trying to (light-heartedly, hence the tongue-in-cheek comment) point out the inconsistency in that - why does Brits watching the show speak of their desire to romanticise and glorify the upper class, but the same somehow isn't true of American audiences watching the film? You're saying I claim to know your logic, but at the same time you yourself are claiming to know the hidden motives for an entire nation watching a film. Seriously?

Over and out for me on this thread as it seems to be bring out the b**ch in me.

I don't think you understood that my first paragraph in post #107 is sarcasm. Hence I don't think you really understood my point. I hate it when I say A, and someone deliberately reinterprets it to mean B, when B doesn't naturally follow from A.

You were the one drawing a conclusion that I was drawing conclusions about a nation for watching a film. I wasn't talking literally about the film, I was referring to that show as one example among many (Upstairs, Downstairs being another), of shows conceived of, acted by, directed and produced by British people for British audiences. I understand that the events and characters depicted are of a bygone era, so their attitudes and actions reflect values of earlier times. However, the plethora and success of that plethora of period dramas, means that the British do hold nostalgia and longing for the past. And I suggest that seeing so much of that stuff, where the upper classes are acting a certain way, and looked up to, does have subliminal effects on the audience. I was not so specific with my words explaining this, and you misconstrued my words to mean something else.

Of course some English speaking people in America and Canada and Australia also lap up period dramas, but those shows are not being produced for American audiences, but for British ones. It's true that in Hollywood the upper class type characters have a British accent. But in Hollywood this type of character may be played as a villain in contemporary times, without the same type of nostalgia.

Technically only the British entertainment industry and media are producing work that glorifies the upper class, and this is only a subset of the British population, but I would argue that these period dramas produced by Brits for Brits are a part of British culture in the present day. You can't argue away the artistic or business ownership of this type of cultural export.