MH370

[momhappy]

The airline sent an email to the family members today that reported that they believe with certainty that the plane went down over the Indian Ocean and there are no survivors.
So terribly sad.

 

[Dee*Jay]

The airline sent an email to the family members today that reported that they believe with certainty that the plane went down over the Indian Ocean and there are no survivors.
So terribly sad.

I really really really hope people were not notified of the almost certain death of their loved ones only by email. At the VERY LEAST a phone call is in order.

 

[momhappy]

^An email/text was sent to family in an effort to avoid them hearing/seeing it on the news before the airline could communicate with them. It may not have been feasible to call them all on the phone before the news story broke.

 

[rosetta]

Very sad to hear this. So many questions still unanswered. Why was the plane diverted off course? Why were the communications turned off? I'm chilled to the bones thinking about what those passengers went through. Apparently, it's possible to glide for hundreds of miles once engines are lost with no hope of living, what an awful thing to have to experience.

 

[Dee*Jay]

^An email/text was sent to family in an effort to avoid them hearing/seeing it on the news before the airline could communicate with them. It may not have been feasible to call them all on the phone before the news story broke.

Oh. Now I understand. Still, how incredibly sad.

 

[kenny]

RIP x 239.

 

[JewelFreak]

I don't understand this. So far they have seen from the air a few pieces of something that might be from 370 (for the zillionth time). Nothing has been recovered -- ships are still on their way to try to find them. They have no more proof today than they had last week or before that. How does the Malaysian gov't suddenly know anything for sure?

No doubt passengers & crew are dead & have been since the flight went off course, but why did the Malaysians suddenly do this?

 

[kenny]

I don't understand this. So far they have seen from the air a few pieces of something that might be from 370 (for the zillionth time). Nothing has been recovered -- ships are still on their way to try to find them. They have no more proof today than they had last week or before that. How does the Malaysian gov't suddenly know anything for sure?

No doubt passengers & crew are dead & have been since the flight went off course, but why did the Malaysians suddenly do this?

The Malaysian government was informed by Inmarsat that the jet, with near-certainty, went down far west of Australia right were it would have run out of fuel.

Inmarsat is a company in Britain that operates the satellite that received the 'pings' from MH370.
Reportedly they used new techniques to analyze the data.

Also Satellite pics spotted debris west of Australia.
Some reports say planes have also found that debris field and ships are either on their way or have arrived and are picking up debris now.

If these report are accurate I expect much more info, and pics of jet debris, will be reported in the days to come.
Debris can indicate if there was a fire, or if the jet exploded in the air or crashed intact and at what angle the jet hit the water.
Autopsies on bodies may produce clues like smoke inhalation.

A transmitter on the jet, presumably now at the bottom of the ocean, has enough battery power to send out beacon signals for only a week or so longer so they really need to rush a ship there with equipment to hear the pings to help locate the wreckage.

I suspect something killed everyone on board, and the plane continued on autopilot till it ran out of fuel.

It's a relief the jet is not parked somewhere for terrorists to use in a future attack.

 

[momhappy]

The airline sent an email to the family members today that reported that they believe with certainty that the plane went down over the Indian Ocean and there are no survivors.
So terribly sad.

I really really really hope people were not notified of the almost certain death of their loved ones only by email. At the VERY LEAST a phone call is in order.

I read in an article later today that many family members were told in person, some by phone, and others by text/email. It sounds like the airline tried to avoid telling family members by text/email, but that was not possible in all cases.

 

[kenny]

I think it was in the middle of the night when people are sleeping and not answering a phone, but I'm sure they felt they had an obligation to announce the big news to the public ASAP after all the criticism Malaysia has gotten.

A modern jet vanishing for two weeks has never happened before.
It was an unprecedented technical challenge, for any nation.
Malaysia is not a rich and advanced country with the latest and best technology.
In fact Malaysian Airlines opted to not buy all the jet-data-reporting-services that richer countries add when they buy Boeing jets.

Yes, this is a terrible tragedy and families are devastated, but I think people may be being unfair to the Malaysian government for some of the criticism.

 

[arkieb1]

The goss in the aviation world is the airline texted over 140 of the family members and what they said was really blunt and incredibly insensitive. It went something like we regret to inform you that flight MH370 crashed into the Indian Ocean your loved ones aboard are dead. Or words to that effect but I think it was even blunter and more tackless sounding when my husband read to actual text to me. And this was done before any of the pieces had been found, based upon the last known triangulated ping of where they can track the plane to have gone down.

Irrespective of cultural and financial differences the whole thing has been handled in the most appalling manner from start to finish.

 

[arkieb1]

They think they might have found piece of it now;

http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/22172054/search-for-malaysian-plane-to-resume/

 

[chrono]

I am very sorry for the family members but hope that with closure, some of the worry and wondering will be lessened. The way the Malaysian Government handled the incident is beyond disappointing from its inefficiency to its lack of consideration to the families of the passengers.

 

[momhappy]

The goss in the aviation world is the airline texted over 140 of the family members and what they said was really blunt and incredibly insensitive. It went something like we regret to inform you that flight MH370 crashed into the Indian Ocean your loved ones aboard are dead. Or words to that effect but I think it was even blunter and more tackless sounding when my husband read to actual text to me. And this was done before any of the pieces had been found, based upon the last known triangulated ping of where they can track the plane to have gone down.

Irrespective of cultural and financial differences the whole thing has been handled in the most appalling manner from start to finish.

This is what I read: “We have to assume beyond all reasonable doubt that MH370 has been lost and none of those on board survived.” and again, not every family member received the news by text (many were told in person or by phone). I think that since there has been this potential for hope (hope in not knowing if passengers were alive or dead), they had to be somewhat blunt when it came to communicating about the fate of the passengers on board that flight. I guess that I have a slightly different perspective on this. It seems to me that the goal was to reach family before they saw/heard it on the news, so time was of the essence. Would you rather receive a personal message or watch it on the news at the same time that the rest of the world is? I had a good friend pass way in a car accident about 15 years ago and the way that I found out was on the news later that morning. No one had a chance to contact me yet and it was a crummy way of finding out. I'm certainly not arguing with the fact that the investigation has been handled poorly (in many respects, it has), but there have been a lot of unknowns throughout the whole process, which has contributed to some of the confusion, the excruciating wait, etc.

 

[arkieb1]

The goss in the aviation world is the airline texted over 140 of the family members and what they said was really blunt and incredibly insensitive. It went something like we regret to inform you that flight MH370 crashed into the Indian Ocean your loved ones aboard are dead. Or words to that effect but I think it was even blunter and more tackless sounding when my husband read to actual text to me. And this was done before any of the pieces had been found, based upon the last known triangulated ping of where they can track the plane to have gone down.

Irrespective of cultural and financial differences the whole thing has been handled in the most appalling manner from start to finish.

This is what I read: “We have to assume beyond all reasonable doubt that MH370 has been lost and none of those on board survived.” and again, not every family member received the news by text (many were told in person or by phone). I think that since there has been this potential for hope (hope in not knowing if passengers were alive or dead), they had to be somewhat blunt when it came to communicating about the fate of the passengers on board that flight. I guess that I have a slightly different perspective on this. It seems to me that the goal was to reach family before they saw/heard it on the news, so time was of the essence. Would you rather receive a personal message or watch it on the news at the same time that the rest of the world is? I had a good friend pass way in a car accident about 15 years ago and the way that I found out was on the news later that morning. No one had a chance to contact me yet and it was a crummy way of finding out. I'm certainly not arguing with the fact that the investigation has been handled poorly (in many respects, it has), but there have been a lot of unknowns throughout the whole process, which has contributed to some of the confusion, the excruciating wait, etc.

I think your version is the version they are telling the media. My husband works in the aviation industry when he read me the text I think it went more like a cross between your version and my version - I was recalling bits of it from memory (to what he read out to me earlier in the day). I clearly remember a few of the words and it was not as nicely put as your version. Anyway I guess you are correct from the point of view it is just semantics. However, when they texted the family members it was BEFORE they had even found pieces of the plane (which they think, but they are still not 100% sure now) they have finally done. I get your point of view that it is better to hear it from the airline (not entirely sure about the blunt and tackless manner that it was possibly conveyed) than see it in the media but then from the point of view of having a husband that works in the Aviation Industry (who used to travel on planes around half the year in the past) and from the point of view that I have travelled on Malaysian Airlines before I am deeply disturbed, for all the families, about the way it has been handled, they are 90% sure today (a day after these emails and texts) they might have found the plane, but what if it is not.... the way the media have been allowed to spread misinformation about the whole thing has been very badly handled, they shouldn't have to beat the media to covey any information to the families, especially when they still are not 100% sure what happened themselves.

 

[kenny]

Again I'm not saying they couldn't have handled it better but I'm sure there was a day when phoning instead of sending a representative to the house was considering bad.
So, texting is worse than calling?
Why, exactly?

How new technologies are viewed by society is interesting.
They are embraced by the young first, then us old farts die off.
I still don't text and catch a lot of flack for it.

I think the Malaysian gov found out when people were sleeping.
Imagine the sh!t they'd get if they waited 24 hours before they called or visited everyone before announcing this important development to the world's hungry and powerful media monster.

 

[aljdewey]

What really strikes me from the commentary both inside Pricescope and in the news is this: people will find fault with the Malaysian government and the airline no matter what actions they do or don't take. No matter how they choose to handle this, they cannot win.

At first, they were trying to avoid speculation without some kind of reasonable data/proof, and they were harshly criticized for that. People accused them of holding back information, and the outcry was "you're treating us badly by making us wait all this time without news and we want answers."

So, when they finally get information they can feel confident in, they try to end the relatives' waiting by sharing the newly-vetted data which indicates beyond reasonable doubt that the plane has been lost, and again they are criticized. Those who were demanding answers and saying the wait was too long are now saying "How can you tell us that when you haven't recovered a single piece of the wreckage?"

Until they find the wreckage, there is no way to conclusively prove it. They tried to wait for that, and people got pissed at having to wait. They tried not waiting to put minds at ease, and people got pissed at that. No win, from where I sit.

Under the kind of intense scrutiny they've been under, I'm sure they've done and continue to do everything humanly possible to locate the wreckage. But, the search area was enormous, and still is even as they've narrowed it down. It's also a non-static environment since floating objects do not stay put. With 26 countries involved, they cannot do anything more to hasten the discovery process.

As far as how the families found out - again, damned if they do and damned if they don't. It takes time to make 200+ phone calls, and I'd guarantee that someone in the first round of 10 would be on camera with the media before the 2nd group of ten got off the phone. That means the other 180+ families find out from the news - is that better? I don't think so.

If you're the airline, do you want to take that chance? I wouldn't. I'd rather the families hear before it leaks to media. In today's insta-news/social media climate, that means text/e-mail. Trust me, if they'd tried a more personal route, people would be upset they found out by newscast or Facebook instead of by personal notification.

This is an unprecedented situation and an extremely emotional one for the families involved. A little compassion for the families AND the authorities would go a long way here.

 

[ericad]

What really strikes me from the commentary both inside Pricescope and in the news is this: people will find fault with the Malaysian government and the airline no matter what actions they do or don't take. No matter how they choose to handle this, they cannot win.

At first, they were trying to avoid speculation without some kind of reasonable data/proof, and they were harshly criticized for that. People accused them of holding back information, and the outcry was "you're treating us badly by making us wait all this time without news and we want answers."

So, when they finally get information they can feel confident in, they try to end the relatives' waiting by sharing the newly-vetted data which indicates beyond reasonable doubt that the plane has been lost, and again they are criticized. Those who were demanding answers and saying the wait was too long are now saying "How can you tell us that when you haven't recovered a single piece of the wreckage?"

Until they find the wreckage, there is no way to conclusively prove it. They tried to wait for that, and people got pissed at having to wait. They tried not waiting to put minds at ease, and people got pissed at that. No win, from where I sit.

Under the kind of intense scrutiny they've been under, I'm sure they've done and continue to do everything humanly possible to locate the wreckage. But, the search area was enormous, and still is even as they've narrowed it down. It's also a non-static environment since floating objects do not stay put. With 26 countries involved, they cannot do anything more to hasten the discovery process.

As far as how the families found out - again, damned if they do and damned if they don't. It takes time to make 200+ phone calls, and I'd guarantee that someone in the first round of 10 would be on camera with the media before the 2nd group of ten got off the phone. That means the other 180+ families find out from the news - is that better? I don't think so.

If you're the airline, do you want to take that chance? I wouldn't. I'd rather the families hear before it leaks to media. In today's insta-news/social media climate, that means text/e-mail. Trust me, if they'd tried a more personal route, people would be upset they found out by newscast or Facebook instead of by personal notification.

This is an unprecedented situation and an extremely emotional one for the families involved. A little compassion for the families AND the authorities would go a long way here.

PS needs a "like" or "thanks" feature! Agree with everything you posted, so I'll just glom on to your post with a simple +1.

 

[arkieb1]

I feel an incredible amount of sympathy for the families about what has occurred and while I agree it is impossible to contain the media, from a perspective of someone inside the Industry (my husband used to own an airline and currently owns and operates jets) the whole thing could have been handled way way better than it was. The actual statements the "real" texts of what went out to the families made me physically sick, they were done in a very tackless way. I sincerely hope that the debris off the coast is the plane and the flight recorders can be found to bring some closure to all involved.

 

[JewelFreak]

Arkieb, I agree. Some kind of info & understanding of this would be so helpful to everyone involved. I was also horrified at the text messages sent to the families, the height of insensitivity.

 

[iLander]

The things that nags at me most:

WHY is it even an option to turn off the transponder?

Why would you ever want to do that? Should you even Allow that?

Piss poor design.

 

[kenny]

The things that nags at me most:

WHY is it even an option to turn off the transponder?

Why would you ever want to do that? Should you even Allow that?

Piss poor design.

The best piece of electronics can fail and catch fire.
If the transponder catches fire you want for a human to be able to kill the electricity going to it.

Good design.

 

[momhappy]

I agree with aljdewey. Damned if you do damned of you don't….
Does anyone have the actual text/email? Unless someone has the actual texts, I don't know how you can condemn the airline? Receiving a text/email seems less insensitive to me as opposed to the alternative, which is learning about it on the morning news while you're sipping your cup of coffee. Again, yes, some things have been handled poorly, but it's not like they have experience with this sort of thing. A plane vanished. It's not any easy job to figure out the the who, what ,and why. The latest search area is the size of Alaska - and people complain about how/why they haven't found anything. I realize that it must be incredibly frustrating for family, but this is uncharted territory and there may not be answers for a long time. I think that it's better that the family members receive confirmation that the flight is a total loss as opposed to holding out hope - and that was probably the main goal in the recent notification.

 

[arkieb1]

I do agree it is a lose/lose situation for the airline, but there is an extensive list which out of respect for the families I am not going to catalogue here that they could have done better given the situation from the outset. Planes have crashed before, they have gone missing before in various parts of the world so it is not a precedent. Some airlines (as with most things in our society) are run and have higher safety standards, better procedures in place generally, higher general standards and better ways of managing crisis situations than others.

 

[JewelFreak]

Would you like to receive this when your husband, wife, child, parent, sibling is missing? With no personal preparation? Their holding out hope against hope has obviously been unrealistic for some time, but to deliver this news this way is insensitive, imho. Planes have been lost many many times & I cannot remember a single occasion where the news was delivered by text message. There was no urgency to do it in the middle of the night while people were sleeping -- why not wait until you can get the families together, as every other carrier has done?

 

[momhappy]

Would you like to receive this when your husband, wife, child, parent, sibling is missing? With no personal preparation? Their holding out hope against hope has obviously been unrealistic for some time, but to deliver this news this way is insensitive, imho. Planes have been lost many many times & I cannot remember a single occasion where the news was delivered by text message. There was no urgency to do it in the middle of the night while people were sleeping -- why not wait until you can get the families together, as every other carrier has done?

I already posted that text, but was told in this thread that it was the text that the media released and not the actual text (and yet, no one here has been able to produce what they refer to as the actual text). I don't have an issue with that text and again, not every family member received a text because many were told in person or by phone. During a recent press conference, the airline said that their sole motivation for the text was to inform (some) family to ensure "that family heard the tragic news before the world did." They also said, "Our sincere thoughts, prayers, and condolences to everyone affected by the tragedy." In regards to waiting & gathering every family member (as opposed to notifying them by any means possible including in person, by phone, or by text/email), that is completely unrealistic and verily likely impossible to achieve before the story broke in the news.
Would I like to receive that text? I have no way of answering that because it's one of those things that you can't possibly understand (or know how you'd react) unless you were actually in that situation. What I do know is that I have been in a situation where I found out that a friend passed away via my local news and it was awful.
It's a no-win situation - had they not been informed in time (and learned of the update in the news), then folks would be complaining about that...

 

[lyra]

I don't know what they could have done differently. In this age, when the information is available, it's online before you can blink an eye. I wouldn't have wanted to find out from the news. I guess if I'd been given a choice: phone call or text, I would have picked texting to someone who could relay the information to me. That would be humane. I could delegate that if I wanted, or take it on myself. Any other way has some people finding out before others. I think I'd prefer to know immediately, and a text does that. I'd probably be scanning the tv and internet constantly anyway, although being a pragmatic person, I would have assumed the worst immediately and would not have held out hope. I'd just want the confirmation asap.

 

[aljdewey]

Planes have crashed before, they have gone missing before in various parts of the world so it is not a precedent.

Planes have crashed before, eh? That's really the justification for why this airline should be vilified and judged as they are? This seems to presume that all crashes are the same and all airlines are the same. They aren't - far from it.

Let's get a little more perspective and relevance, since the devil is truly in the details.

Malaysia Airlines has been operating for 42 years, and prior to this crash has only incurred 134 total fatalities. (Yes, that means this crash is the single most devastating loss of life event this carrier has ever faced, for those keeping score. They lost more lives in this single event than they lost over 42 prior years of operation.) Point? They don't have a ton of prior experience dealing with loss of life, and nothing even coming close to this scale.

Their last crash involving fatalities (32 passengers and 2 crew lost) was in 1995 - almost 30 years ago. This was pre-Internet access for most people, and well before social media.

As to the contention that there's precedent.......well, let's look at the big picture.

Since 2008, there have been 112 airline crashes. 22 were fatality-free; 81 involved less than 100 fatalities (and most were under 50).

Only 9 crashes involved more than 100 fatalities. Of those, 5 occurred during landing or on approach to landing (and were therefore in contact with air traffic control with their locations KNOWN to be within 100 miles of their anticipated arrival airports). Another 3 occurred over land; one was immediately after takeoff and 2 were mountainside crashes.

The 9th of those 100+ fatality crashes was the AirFrance crash into the Atlantic in 2009--the . That crash occurred over the expected/anticipated flight path, and it STILL took 5 days to locate.

None of the airliners in those prior crashes flew for literally hours beyond the last radar contact. None of them veered hundreds of miles off their anticipated flight paths. None of them required a search field spanning more than 2500 miles (nearly all of which are over ocean, which means wreckage may be there but isn't visible.)

I'm sorry, but I disagree there is precedent of any kind here.

It's very easy to Monday-morning quarterback after the fact and spout about how so many things could have been done better even as you provide no detail on why, but this type of speculation and accusation benefits no one in my opinion. It doesn't bring back the lives, it doesn't help us learn how to do things better. Some who 'owns jets' isn't quite the same to me as someone who oversees a commercial airline operation, and small commercial airline outfits like Malaysia Air (at just under $9M revenue) aren't at all the same as the 150+ commercial airline outfits that each generate at least a half-BILLION dollars in revenue.

I'd find it much more relevant and constructive to hear from other similarly situated airlines how we and they can learn from something like this going forward.

 

[aljdewey]

It's been asked "why not wait until you can get the families together?"

I don't really believe this would have been successful in preventing relatives from still hearing it through other means first, and I don't believe it would have been received any better, to be honest.

Families are scattered among several countries, so that would mean contacting them all to schedule a gathering and waiting for those not in the immediate vicinity to trek there. What do you think would happen during that time? Yep - someone among the relatives would leak it out to the media that a gathering had been scheduled, and the speculation machine would reach a fever pitch until the meeting occurred.

What else do I think would happen? Yep - people anxious for news venting angrily about having to wait a few more days to learn the fate of their loved ones until all the relatives could get to the gathering? These people were already boiling over at having to wait for news when there was no truly credible or substantive news to report; can you imagine the new level of flashpoint that would arise if there finally is something to know but you have to wait 24-48 hours more to get it? Then we'd be vilifying the airline for not listening to the anguish of the relatives by making them wait longer. No win.

I feel horribly for the families, but in their position, do you truly believe that any of them were shocked at the eventual message? I don't. I have to think most of them would have been expecting this news eventually, and yet, it was going to be difficult to see those words formalized no matter the format. Even as they may have known it in their hearts, hearing/reading it formally is going to be traumatic regardless of the format.

As to delivery, again - damned if they do, and damned if they don't. NO choice was going to be perfect; in the end, they had to do what they thought was their best given all the factors. Unless and until we're all in that same position, I just feel it's a horrible disservice to them to criticize what seems to have been well-intentioned efforts.

 

[momhappy]

^Thanks for sharing that aljdewey. It really puts things into perspective