Mixer for HD bread making, anyone have one of these?

[kenny]

Kitchenaid offers 5, 6 and 7-qt models, $320 to $650.
Lots of internet reviews saying today's KAs are much lower quality than the one your mom or granny had.
While strong enough for mixing cake batter, they suddenly crap out when struggling to knead heavier doughs, even when following recipes in the owner's manual.

Warranty is only a year and after that KA won't even fix them if you pay them.
Basically a throw away mixer if you do lots of hard-core dough making, which is my intention.



Bosch has the Kitchen Universal Plus, $550 with the stainless steel bowl.
I love how the top is open for access.
There is no big bulky motor in your way for adding ingredients and scraping the bowl.



Hobart still makes the classic no-nsense commercial-grade N 50.
So strong the motor runs like the bowl is empty even when fully loaded with heavy bagel dough.
So bulletproof they last to become family heirlooms.
But at $2,223 its's really expensive.



Electrolux has the $700 Assistent. (yes that's spelled correctly)
Still made in Sweden, the bowl spins, while the two insert thingies stay stationary, though the round one cleverly spins freely or rotates when fixed against the bowl.
Though it comes with a dough hook I read the Euorpeans use the rotating thingie instead which gives a softer dough/bread.
Watched many Youtube videos about this one which was introduced in the 1930s.
I'm strongly favoring this one so far.
Watching it in action I appreciate how brilliantly the unique design works for heavy bread dough.
http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/magic_mill_dlx_mixer.aspx

 

[Loves Vintage]

Hi Kenny,

What kind of bread are you making exactly? HD?

I use an old KA to knead and it's still going strong. I'd guess the machine is over 10 years old, at least, but hasn't been used much, until the past year of so, mostly for bread dough.

I used a Hobart when I worked in a kitchen, years ago. If I had to guess, I'd bet the same machine is still sitting in the same spot today.

The Assistent does look pretty cool.

Another option for you was mentioned by TC1987 in this thread: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/do-you-bake-your-own-bread.170335/

If you just want a bread machine to use as a mixer, an old DAK Turbo Baker http://stevebottorff.com/DAK.htm or the Wellbilt ABM-100 both have strong motors, better than what you'd get in today's bread machines. They are the ones with the glass dome lid. I find them in thrift stores rather frequently for anywhere from $4 to $10, and they still work and bake. They make good bread, too, but it's a cylindrical loaf. There are recipes that came with the machines, but cut the yeast back to 1 tsp for 3C flour , and not more than 2.25 tsp per 4 cups of flour. That gets rid of the heavy yeast taste but should be enough to make dough rise.

The 750 watts or 600w or whatever watts the bread machines state on their labels is the heater wattage, not the motor. But those old DAK and Wellbilts were made in Japan of good long-lasting parts.

I actually bought one of these at Goodwill for like $6 or $8. It is in great condition. I had seen some others, but they had a lot more use and the inner pot coating was scratched. With all of that said, I have never actually used it. I just used my KA. I do have some bread to bake today, so maybe I will try it out. I *think* these are favored by hard core bread bakers, but never got too far into researching that either. (Oh, and it was never my intention to bake the cylindrical loaves. I just wanted to use it to knead the dough.)

 

[kenny]

Thanks LV.
I learned a lot from your thread from last year, which I should have searched for first.
By HD I mean high-density dough such as whole wheat, bagel, pizza and pretzel.
These doughs, especially in large batches, are a huge strain that shorten the life of, or outright kill, the motor in many home mixers.

Sorry, I reread my post and it sounds like I'm putting down the KA, which many here may own.
Once again Kenny inserts his foot firmly into mouth.

The Kitchenaid is a wonderful mixer for lighter loads and occasional dough use, and I've always wanted one.
I now think of it as the Steinway of kitchen appliances, tip-top-image and competent execution ... but other obscure brands off in the shadows perform better.
The bread-making fora have some hard-core bakers who often bake large batches of heavy dense dough, which is what I eventually hope to grow into.
I've learned from pianos and diamonds that upgrading makes a lot of money go POOF!, so I want to buy my last mixer first.

Several posters testify that the KAs, especially the smaller-motor ones, are not up to the task.
They report smelling burning motors, murdered machines, having to replace worn out brushes often, and even black hot grease dripping from the over-heated motor into the food as KAs struggle to keep up with heavy use.
Many of these KA-murderers now cherish their Assistents.

I just bought an Assistent.
The exact same machine has had several names since 1939, reflecting several importer's contract with the factory.
It is aka: Electrolux Assistent, DLX Assistent, Assistent N28, Magic Mill Assistent, Verona Assistent … all the same machine from the same factory.
The current importer bestowed the name Ankarsrum Assistent. (Ankarsrum being the city in Southern Sweden where they are produced.)

The ones with the new name, Ankarsrum, sell everywhere for $699 in several designer colors, $50 less for black and white.
I lucked out by finding one of the last mixers still for sale under the former name Verona, for $599.
The vendor had two left, and when blown out they will start selling the newer Ankarsrums for $699.

I just heard back from the new importer and they have agreed to grandfather mine into their current warranty plan.
They didn't have to do that and it speaks well for the company.
Also the vendor gave me the last colored one, Royal Blue, without charging me the $50 extra for the color and waived the $15 shipping on one of the two attachments.
I 'saved' $165.
If anyone's interested he has one white one left, but it was a floor model. http://www.kodiakhealth.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/2009

Another groovy thing is attachments and spare parts are available at this site at about 20% less under the old Verona name compared to the what other sites are selling the exact same things under name.

Nice video showing what's unique about this mixer design: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTp7CFWCk7M
Notice the name etched onto the bowl changed.
I got the older Verona bowl on the right, with a base of the color on the left.
I have a irrational affection for things Swedish, since that's my ancestry.

 

[luv2sparkle]

Hi Kenny! I have a Bosch, Kitchen aid, and a magic mill DLX, now called the Assistent. I would have to say, the right one for you depends on how much bread you are going to be making.

I like the Bosch, but it is an older model that I got from my mom. It does a good job. I was thinking about getting the newer model a few months ago but decided to put it on hold for awhile. When my kids were younger and I was making huge amounts of baked goods, pizza dough and bread, I bought the Magic Mill. I used it for about 10 years and was really happy with it. Then a pin fell out of the head mechanism and it hasn't been quite right since. It still works and I use it if I need to make a large amount of dough, but mostly now I use my kitchen aid (professional). I think the kitchen aid I have has the largest motor they make. I make two batches of pizza dough (4 pizzas) with ease. I can make four loaves of bread at a time. I really don't need to make much more than that.

So if you are going to make large quantities of bread, and not much else, go for the Bosch or the Magic Mill. If you are going to make one or two loaves at a time, and want the mixer to do other things just as well, go for Kitchen Aid. I have not found much difference in the crumb or height of my bread with either mixer, in spite of what they tell you. If you make bread regularly, you know how it should look and feel and that is what I go by. The electrolux is not as effective for other kinds of mixing in my opinion. It's not that you can't use it for other things, but the kitchen aid is better to me.

Bosch also makes a much less expensive model that can do a smaller quantity of dough. That might be an option for you too. I do like a mixer without the center drive as well. I like to have no obstruction in the center of the bowl.

I don't think Kitchen Aid is the same quality as it used to be, but I still like it best for all around use.

 

[luv2sparkle]

Oops, I just saw that you ordered the assistent. I hope you enjoy it. I will be interested to hear what you think of it.

 

[kenny]

Thanks L2S!

 

[Karl_K]

doing a lot of bread?
Get a bread machine then don't use the bake function.
Mix and rise in the machine then remove and bake.

A low cost bread machine will out perform and out last an expensive mixer for bread.

 

[Akvileja]

I have the Electrolux Assistent and it's great for making bread! I'm Swedish, so for me it was a very conventional choice. I haven't tried any other brands so I can't compare the end result of the bread or the strenght of the different motors, but the Assistent is a real work horse.

You can easily make a bread dough with 1 liter of liquid, and the bowl is big enough for the dough to rise in the bowl. I usually use the dough roller. Sometimes I bake a heavier bread where you pour boiling water on rye flour and for that you need the dough hook and only run the machine at a low speed. The bowl is large, which I think is a good thing, but if you are making small quantities it might just be too large.

There are a lot of different accesoires if you want to mince meat, make sausages, cut vegetables etc. I have some of them but honestly prefer my food processor for cutting vegetables and making cookie dough.

 

[kenny]

Akvileja, thanks for posting your experience.

Yes, I've read that Europeans prefer the roller to the dough hook.
About capacity, there are events for which I'll make several loafs, and apparently the Assistent can knead enough dough for 11 loaves.
They also claim it can do an outstanding job of only 1 or 2 loaves, but we'll see.
I have a 30 day return period.

Karl. I hear you.
Many people are very happy with bread machines.
I would not be.
Here's why ...

Recently I watched the French documentary, "Kings of Pastry", which is now streaming on Netflix.
Here's a 2-minute trailer: http://kingsofpastry.com
It is about a competition in France held every fourth year in which 16 of the very best pastry chefs compete for a prize/credential so important it is presented by the President of France.
I was in awe of these chefs who dedicate their lives to learning a very specialized craft.
The competition is 4 days and like the Olympics.
The chefs must prepare a absurdly huge number of recipes while being watched like a hawk by a panel of judges who are previous winners.
When finished the chefs look exhausted and nearly in a coma, like they just swam around the world.

The film inspired me to start on a long path of learning bread making as an art and a craft.
I want to achieve the Octavia of breads. and like you said about photography I feel it is 95% skill and 5% equipment.
Still, tool quality matters, and regulars on bread fora swear by the Assistent.

The very idea of a bread-making machine is anathema to a field I hold in high regard.
IOW, I'm a snob.
With all due respect a bread making machine is perfect for some people, and the not-easy, not-automatic, more-hassle, more-expensive, more-time-consuming path I'm taking is perfect for my personality.
I have only a few hobbies, but I do love to fully immerse myself in them.

You could argue, then why not knead the bread by hand?
I'm selectively lazy and this machine's unique design reportedly more closely simulates hand-kneading (for better gluten development) than other designs.
Who knows? Maybe that's all marketing gobbledegook.

 

[NTave]

I had two KA mixers, one is 11 years old, the small basic model. I upgraded to the Artisan with a larger bowl bc I used to make a lot of bread and used it w baking other stuff and the small one doesn't cut it and slops over the kneading attachment. That larger one lasted three years before the motor went. They aren't cheap and should last longer than 3 years, esp when they aren't used daily or even weekly.

 

[kenny]

Sorry to hear that, NTave.
Unfortunately I read that your experience is common.
A generation ago Kitchenaid mixers were made by Hobart and those were top quality and many are still going strong.

FWIW, I hear KA's Artisan series is not powerful enough to handle much dough kneading.
There are fewer complaints with the larger units and Costco has the 6-qt "Professional" model on sale now for $289.
http://www.costco.com/ProductDisplay?storeId=10301&catalogId=10701&langId=-1&partNumber=11754601
This sale is another thing that lit a fire under me to start researching bread making.

If you were considering upgrading I mentioned the vendor below has one Assistant left under the old name of Verona for $100 less than the same machine sells for today under the new importer's name, Ankarsrum.
They also still offer the attachments and replacement parts at substantially lower prices than they go for elsewhere under the new name.
I grabbed the blender attachment for $50, while under the new name everyone sells it for $85.
The juice attachment was $19.99, but the same one under the new name is $39.99.
Click on this link, scroll down and click on the tab for Attachments. http://www.kodiakhealth.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/2009

I plan on buying the grain mill attachment and give a shot at grinding my own flour.
I learned the reason white flour was invented was not so much for taste and texture.
It was invented to extend the shelf life so sellers could increase their profits, and it lasts longer in the home.
The nutritious wheat germ and bran, removed to make white flour, contain oil that makes true whole-wheat flour go rancid faster.

Like an an uncut apple , unmilled wheat kernels have a long shelf life so you can save $$$ buying large quantities.
I read that freshly-milled wheat has superior taste and texture.
Plus you can buy wheat kernels that are not genetically-modified, or organic, and can select between red and white wheat.

I'm having fun learning new stuff.
I'm waiting for my Assistent to be delivered today.
Now I gotta get supplies and cookbooks.

 

[NTave]

That sounds like fun, especially with grinding your own flour. Cool.
We are actually going the other way..I make less and less baked goods and we eat very little wheat/bread now, instead turning to gluten free for some goods and forgoing replacements altogether in others, so I use the little KA with the Hobart motor even less now.
But there isn't anything quite like fresh baked wheat bread. No comparison. And its a mastery of skill to make consistently. Have fun!

 

[Akvileja]

Any baking yet with the Assistent, Kennny?