Mom punishes 7 y.o. with hot sauce and cold showers

[MonkeyPie]

It is very hard being a parent and trying to figure out what's best for your child. I'm sure we all can agree. Aren't you the person who posted about the grandparent caregiver smoking around your child? Some people could say that is abuse, to subject a small, growing baby to a smoky environment day in and day out, which can potentially harm development.

Nice, thank you SO much.

 

[goCubsgo]

I didn't mean to offend-my point is that it stings when others judge your parenting choices. We should all try to cut harried mothers and fathers a little slack.

 

[Maisie]

I didn't mean to offend-my point is that it stings when others judge your parenting choices. We should all try to cut harried mothers and fathers a little slack.

There is being harried and there is doing really horrible things to your kids.

 

[Autumnovember]

My mom used the belt. That thing hurts but I made sure not to repeat the same mistake twice, new mistakes were a different story.

 

[TravelingGal]

It is very hard being a parent and trying to figure out what's best for your child. I'm sure we all can agree. Aren't you the person who posted about the grandparent caregiver smoking around your child? Some people could say that is abuse, to subject a small, growing baby to a smoky environment day in and day out, which can potentially harm development. My point is that I've learned not to judge other parents' actions unless it involves hitting or other true physical or verbal abuse. Now that said, the hot sauce and cold showers would definitely not be anything I personally, or my wife, would do.

So then, spanking would be "abuse?"

 

[Lauren8211]

The worst part of that video for me was way she seemed to be getting off on it, and how much she seemed to be dragging it out. I don't know... physically (while I would not do this) the hot sauce and cold shower were mean, and bordering abusive, but not permanently damaging (ok maybe they would be psychologically). It was the way she had this build up, and the TERROR in this child! And it only fueled it for her. It was disturbing because while I'd hate to ever spank my kid, if it ever came to that, it would hurt me too. This mom seemed to really be enjoying what she was doing. That was the most disturbing part for me.

 

[TooPatient]

Speaking as a non-parent:

I once got the "wash your mouth out with soap" thing (I was around 5 or so) and they had to hold me down and force the bar into my mouth -- never did get it in my mouth but it left my mouth bleeding from the attempt.

I've also gotten the leather belt, wooden paddle, spoons, etc.


In my memory, the soap was as bad as any of the others.


How to "deal with" a challenging child is really a difficult question that I don't think there is one answer for. Children are all unique so what works for one may not work for another.

Another question I have no answer for is where the line is between "punishment" and "abuse" -- physically and verbally
I think (except for the most obvious examples) it is very unclear (especially verbal) and depends greatly on the child --- In my case, the physical stuff I don't really think of any more and I don't think it had much of a long term affect on me but the verbal stuff (NOT screamed threats, just words that would be judged by many/most people as being fine) has stuck with me my whole life and, I think, has contributed to many of the ongoing challenges in my life.

 

[Maisie]

Speaking as a non-parent:

I once got the "wash your mouth out with soap" thing (I was around 5 or so) and they had to hold me down and force the bar into my mouth -- never did get it in my mouth but it left my mouth bleeding from the attempt.

I've also gotten the leather belt, wooden paddle, spoons, etc.


In my memory, the soap was as bad as any of the others.


How to "deal with" a challenging child is really a difficult question that I don't think there is one answer for. Children are all unique so what works for one may not work for another.

Another question I have no answer for is where the line is between "punishment" and "abuse" -- physically and verbally
I think (except for the most obvious examples) it is very unclear (especially verbal) and depends greatly on the child --- In my case, the physical stuff I don't really think of any more and I don't think it had much of a long term affect on me but the verbal stuff (NOT screamed threats, just words that would be judged by many/most people as being fine) has stuck with me my whole life and, I think, has contributed to many of the ongoing challenges in my life.

Reading this made me feel really sad. I really hope my children don't grow up with issues caused by anything I have done or said. Its a big responsibility having children and I hope I have done well.

 

[Girlrocks]

Doesn't the mom seem, a bit...off? No emotion, just very blank and empty.

Don't get me wrong, I don't feel sorry for her.

I feel horrible for that little boy. Even though I had seen the previews and made sure I didn't miss the episode, I was still crying listening to him. And what about the older sister who was taping it? I feel sorry for her. She's 10 years old and had to do to that extent to get help for her family?!

 

[Lauren8211]

The worst part of that video for me was way she seemed to be getting off on it, and how much she seemed to be dragging it out. I don't know... physically (while I would not do this) the hot sauce and cold shower were mean, and bordering abusive, but not permanently damaging (ok maybe they would be psychologically). It was the way she had this build up, and the TERROR in this child! And it only fueled it for her. It was disturbing because while I'd hate to ever spank my kid, if it ever came to that, it would hurt me too. This mom seemed to really be enjoying what she was doing. That was the most disturbing part for me.

 

[Mara]

I didn't watch the video, because it just sounded horrible.

But hot sauce on the tongue, yes I would probably do that. A whole mouthful, swishing? Wouldn't even imagine that, how did she even come up with it?

Washing out with soap, I am too lazy for that. My Mom always threatened to do that with me and I don't think she did.

I was a TOTAL HANDFUL as a child. I got spanked all the time. My poor Mom was a single parent dealing with a willful and extremely unruly child. We'll probably be doing a lot of time outs. He already throws tantrums at dinnertime for no apparent reason.

Based on what people said, I imagine that watching Mom getting enjoyment out of her kid screaming and in pain is the real issue.

Hopefully this kid doesn't end up in the hospital or dead from some future interpretation of a great punishment that the Mom conjures up. Those poor kids.

 

[that_someone_special]

I got hot peppers or hot sauce when I mouthed off (or what my parents considered to be mouthing off). Didn't work, but it hurt like hell and I am not a complete fan of spicy food anymore. I mean, who freaking does this crap to kids? I also got soap in the mouth too. It made me vomit once as well... if anything my language got worse.

 

[Laila619]

My DH when he was a kid got worcestershire sauce on the tongue...I thought that was an odd one.

 

[Mara]

My DH when he was a kid got worcestershire sauce on the tongue...I thought that was an odd one.

I would probably like that.

We have Pepper Plant we like to use on our eggs. Maybe we'll use that.

 

[Cehrabehra]

So..... we're screaming abuse for this, but it's ok to wash a kid's mouth with soap when they say bad things? At least the hot sauce can't potentially poison the child. I understand no this isn't ideal punishment, and probably could be handled totally differently, I'm just pointing out a past time scenario that was quite common but was not as frowned upon.

BTW Spicy things are used for deterrents in nail biting and with dogs for chewing. Although I don't think a mouth full of hot sauce should be used, a good teaspoon may eradicate nasty words from a child's mouth.

My mom used to use soap when I got sassy but one time when I was about 10 I felt like she was wrong and unjustified and I was pissed so as she was doing it I started chewing the soap and I swallowed some and it burned my whole mouth and throat and I threw up all over her and the bathroom.

She never did THAT again

 

[Maisie]

So..... we're screaming abuse for this, but it's ok to wash a kid's mouth with soap when they say bad things? At least the hot sauce can't potentially poison the child. I understand no this isn't ideal punishment, and probably could be handled totally differently, I'm just pointing out a past time scenario that was quite common but was not as frowned upon.

BTW Spicy things are used for deterrents in nail biting and with dogs for chewing. Although I don't think a mouth full of hot sauce should be used, a good teaspoon may eradicate nasty words from a child's mouth.

My mom used to use soap when I got sassy but one time when I was about 10 I felt like she was wrong and unjustified and I was pissed so as she was doing it I started chewing the soap and I swallowed some and it burned my whole mouth and throat and I threw up all over her and the bathroom.

She never did THAT again

Ohh yuk! I can't believe you ate it crazy woman!! Mind you, if it stopped her doing it again fair play

 

[Autumnovember]

I wonder if law enforcement is able to intervene now that the video has been made public?

My heart broke watching it. His posture when he is standing there talking to her says it all.


By the way, how many damn times can this woman repeat herself?

 

[Tacori E-ring]

This sounds like Psychological Maltreatment. Here is a great site that defines maltreatment (and the kinds) from neglect and abuse. http://www.childwelfare.gov/can/defining/ and gives clear examples.

It defines Psycological Maltreatment as

"Psychological maltreatment—also known as emotional abuse and neglect—refers to "a repeated pattern of caregiver behavior or extreme incident(s) that convey to children that they are worthless, flawed, unloved, unwanted, endangered, or only of value in meeting another's needs."10 Summarizing research and expert opinion, Stuart N. Hart, Ph.D., and Marla R. Brassard, Ph.D., present six categories of psychological maltreatment:

* Spurning (e.g., belittling, hostile rejecting, ridiculing);
* Terrorizing (e.g., threatening violence against a child, placing a child in a recognizably dangerous situation);
* Isolating (e.g., confining the child, placing unreasonable limitations on the child's freedom of movement, restricting the child from social interactions);
* Exploiting or corrupting (e.g., modeling antisocial behavior such as criminal activities, encouraging prostitution, permitting substance abuse);
* Denying emotional responsiveness (e.g., ignoring the child's attempts to interact, failing to express affection);
* Mental health, medical, and educational neglect (e.g., refusing to allow or failing to provide treatment for serious mental health or medical problems, ignoring the need for services for serious educational needs).11

To warrant intervention, psychological maltreatment must be sustained and repetitive. For less severe acts, such as habitual scapegoating or belittling, demonstrable harm to the child is often required for CPS to intervene.

Psychological maltreatment is the most difficult form of child maltreatment to identify. In part, the difficulty in detection occurs because the effects of psychological maltreatment, such as lags in development, learning problems, and speech disorders, are often evident in both children who have experienced and those who have not experienced maltreatment. Additionally, the effects of psychological maltreatment may only become evident in later developmental stages of the child's life.

Although any of the forms of child maltreatment may be found alone, they often occur in combination. Psychological maltreatment is almost always present when other forms are identified."

I found the video disturbing. I found the fact that she video taped it and sent it into the show even MORE disturbing. She has admitted to have an anger issue. My concern is there is more severe abuse that is not shown on the video. Most logical and reasonable parents do not physically confine their child to an ice cold shower or make them squish hot sauce around in their mouth. I have never heard of any parents that I know actually wash their child's mouth out with soap. I am sure it happens but I don't think it is common or is right. I don't believe in disciplines that create fear based mentality. I don't want my child to be afraid of me or my reactions. Fear is something people carry around for their entire lives. For those who don't find this alarming I wonder if you ever had a child development course.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

I didn't watch the video. I am currently dealing with a heartbreaking case of neglect, and can't handle too much more right now. But based on the descriptions, and the nature of these "punishments" I would agree with Tacori and say this case could be investigated for emotional abuse at the least.

T-Gal. Spanking is not abuse. Most state's law say that if it leaves a mark, it crosses the line.

In general, a very simple way to think about child abuse is if someone does something to someone else that is illegal (weather it be verbal assault, sexual assault, or an act of violence), a parent should not be doing those things to their child. That thinking will not cover everything, but does cover a lot of what is considered abuse.

 

[taovandel]

I watched the episode today...I was shocked mainly by the cold shower...I've heard of people doing the whole hot sauce thing (Maybe not to the extent she was doing it...but a drop here or there) so I wasn't so shocked.

I was also really put off by her comments about feeling no connection to her adopted son (The one she was abusing) and her love and immediate connection to his twin brother. No wonder this kid is not behaving how she wants him to....I think she also mentioned that he would steal food and stuff like that....I wonder how much of that is because of how he was fed at his orphanage in Russia....maybe he thinks he has to steal because it might be the last time he sees food....

The whole situation is sad and I hope Dr. Phil upholds his promise to remove the kid the moment he finds out she is continuing with her behavior.

 

[zhuzhu]

I have an online friend who tries to discontinue breast-feeding by putting hot sauce on her nipples (to discourage the urge from the baby).

I know they are very different purpose in nature, but perhaps that is why this mother thinks it is OK to do that?

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

This is disgusting.

Anyone read A Child Called It? That's what it reminds me of.

OMG I read this and the follow up book in high school! Completely broke my heart!

 

[DivaDiamond007]

I didn't watch the video but I think forcing a child to take a cold shower while swishing hot sauce in his mouth is insane. I can see a few drops of hot sauce, or tossing (not literally!) an unruly tween in a cold shower for a cool down (pun intended) but that's where I'd draw the line.

I have a fiesty 2 year old and DH and I use the Supernanny method of discipline. If he does something to warrant a time-out, like biting, then he gets 2 minutes in his crib. We place him in there, tell him that we don't bite, walk silently out of the room and close the door. After 2 minutes we go back in and explain that we don't bite, etc., and then remove him from his crib. So far it has worked wonderfully for us. It is heartbreaking to hear him scream hysterically when he's in time-out but at the same time we know he's safe and usually after about a minute he's calmed down.

Personally, my sister and I were spanked (a lot) as children; sometimes with a hand or wooden spoon but oftentimes a leather belt. Now that I'm a parent I don't think I could subject my child to that sort of punishment because I think that it does nothing but teach kids to be scared of their parents and that it's okay to use violence when you're angry. A swat at the hand or a single pat on the bottom is one thing, but a full on beating with a belt is another in my book.

 

[Imdanny]

It's not OK to put your kid in a cold shower. Any parent who doesn't know that doesn't have any common sense. That's definitely a form of abuse.

 

[risingsun]

As someone who is mandated to report child abuse, I would report this mother so fast her head would spin.

 

[blueiris]

That was extremely disturbing and I wish I hadn't watched it before going to sleep! Ugh. That woman is horribly abusive in my eyes. I started crying when that sweet little boy was sobbing in the shower.

I had my mouth washed out with soap a few times for "sassing" my mother. I still remember the grip she had on my face and her forcing the bar of soap into my mouth. My mother also swatted me with a hairbrush a few times. I got one "over the knee" spanking from my dad that I remember. All these punishments were humiliating and demeaning and didn't teach me a thing except to resent my parents for being bigger and stronger than I was.

When I was about 12, I slept over at a new friend's house. Before dinner, her mother said to her and her brother, "When your father gets home, I'm going to tell him what you did today. And he'll punish you." I was so sick to my stomach all through dinner, wondering what this punishment was going to be. After dinner, he took all of us upstairs, made them both pull down their pants and underwear (in FRONT of me - maybe he thought that would add to their embarrassment and humiliation and "teach" them something more) and lie down on the bed. Then he took off his belt and hit them on their behinds. I was so upset that I couldn't sleep, and finally I told my friend I felt ill and they called my mom to come and get me.

All of this made a big impression on me and I vowed never to hit one of my own children, and I also can't imagine ever - ever - putting hot sauce in their mouth or making them take a cold shower. That little boy's cries broke my heart.

 

[Kaleigh]

I couldn't watch it. I was abused as a kid, so I just thank god I turned out ok. I am very sorry for all that suffered this kind of abuse. I really have no words for the evil that is done to kids.

 

[Maisie]

I have an online friend who tries to discontinue breast-feeding by putting hot sauce on her nipples (to discourage the urge from the baby).

I know they are very different purpose in nature, but perhaps that is why this mother thinks it is OK to do that?

Even this makes me feel sad. I am obviously very soft.

 

[junebug17]

I also think this is child abuse. This isn't 1910, surely there are better and more humane ways to discipline children. I think these "methods" are demeaning and humiliating, and most likely ineffective in making any big changes in behavior.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

As someone who is mandated to report child abuse, I would report this mother so fast her head would spin.

I would also report it.