Monarch, AmberGretchen and other vegetarians...

[neatfreak]

I can sure tell you that my body knows what it needs. Some days it just craves meat. I don't particularly like the taste, and I was veg for 7 years, but sometimes I think your body just tells you what it needs. I can eat all the soy protein I want and if my body is craving meat the craving won't go away until I eat it. And this comes from someone who doesn't really LIKE meat at all!!! I also think that this type of thing manifests itself in pregnant women more so than normal because your body needs different nutrients. Thus why many women who are veg and pregnant crave meat...

There is a lot of research out there on your ancestry and whether your body is one that can do without meat or whether it craves meat. Some people's bodies seem to react better without meat (and the idea is that their ancestors were likely more gatherers than hunters) and some people don't seem to be able to get away from the cravings even though they don't like it (like me!) because their ancestors theoretically hunted more.

It's an interesting research theory and seems to make sense in at least a theoretical way. Regardless of the science behind it, it is an interesting concept to think about. I think the most important thing for you to do is to LISTEN TO YOUR BODY.

But it is just my .02!

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 9/5/2007 10:49:58 AM
Author: Richard Sherwood
I saw a bumper sticker the other day:


VEGETARIAN

Indian word for ''poor hunter''

Hehe, that is a very popular bumper sticker in WI. My FI who is vegetarian saw it one day and almost laughed himself off the road...

 

[baby monster]

What an interesting thread. Loved reading the discussion on cravings. I don''t get cravings for meat per se but I do occasionally feel that certain hunger for protein. I usually eat couple of eggs and it goes away.

One comment on Mara''s train of though regarding people having an issue with eating meat. I don''t try to convert anyone to being a vegetarian or offer unsolicited advice. I agree that everyone should eat whatever they want. The world is made a certain way and some animals eat other animals. I have run into an opposite problem - people think I bumped my head and lost my senses when I tell them I am a vegetarian. Quite a few people take it as a personal insult. I was invited to a bbq recently and told the host in advance that I don''t eat meat. He made me very uncomfortable by arguing with me during the bbq for hours while not eating any of the vegetables I brought to grill. I am starting to think I should tell people I am allergic to meat, perhaps they''ll respect my choice more.

Everyone comes to what they eat via a different path but being veg. for some reason inspires a lot of condescending comments. Richard''s post above is one example.

 

[rainbowtrout]

Random note...animal protein actually is objectively different chemically. It has more amino acids and I think it digests differently as well.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

I suddenly have this intense craving for.....rainbow trout.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 9/5/2007 11:32:06 AM
Author: baby monster
What an interesting thread. Loved reading the discussion on cravings. I don''t get cravings for meat per se but I do occasionally feel that certain hunger for protein. I usually eat couple of eggs and it goes away.

One comment on Mara''s train of though regarding people having an issue with eating meat. I don''t try to convert anyone to being a vegetarian or offer unsolicited advice. I agree that everyone should eat whatever they want. The world is made a certain way and some animals eat other animals. I have run into an opposite problem - people think I bumped my head and lost my senses when I tell them I am a vegetarian. Quite a few people take it as a personal insult. I was invited to a bbq recently and told the host in advance that I don''t eat meat. He made me very uncomfortable by arguing with me during the bbq for hours while not eating any of the vegetables I brought to grill. I am starting to think I should tell people I am allergic to meat, perhaps they''ll respect my choice more.

Everyone comes to what they eat via a different path but being veg. for some reason inspires a lot of condescending comments. Richard''s post above is one example.

Well that was extremely rude.

 

[Mara]

the thing i think is funny about vegeterianism is that so many people perceive it as kind of a really liberal hippy viewpoint...and so many people outside of CA are sure that most of us are vegetarians just because CA is considered a liberal state (though i know plenty of conservatives!). it''s kind of funny, the misconceptions. when i first met greg (die hard east coaster back in 2000) he thought because i was born and raised here i was probably a veggie. on our second date i was like ''lets get steak!''...so he was happy that i wasn''t veggie...honestly i don''t think he would have been AS interested in me if i was because he''s such a meat eater and he''d probably hate having me glare at his steak across the table or refuse to cook it or whatever (not all veggies are like that but a lot of the ones i have come across are hehee)...but like with anything there are diff shades of veggies, some of them are so rabid about their choices that they almost put meat eaters on the defensive. just like some meat eaters are so rabid about eating meat they put veggies on the defensive. i love veggies AND meat. and fish.

i figure as long as people are eating what they want, who really cares.

lol richard, greg would LOVE that bumper sticker. he''s such a rabble rouser.

 

[mrssalvo]

my 14 year step-daughter is a vegetarian. She just decided about a year and a half ago that she didn''t want to eat meat any more. she used to LOVE it. there are so many substitutes out there that I don''t think she misses it too much. She never makes a big deal to anyone when we go to friends houses to eat. Most people serve plenty of veggie friendly items and she just eats thoses omiting the meat and no one really pays attention or notices. i cook a little differently when she''s at my house just to make sure she''s getting protein or does have plenty of veggie options if were grilling chicken or something. I personally love meat, although I don''t eat it everyday there are just too many life pleasures involving meat foods for me to give up...

 

[baby monster]

Preface: I''m veg who is not anti-meat, live with a carnivore, cook meat for him and see nothing wrong with killing an animal to eat it.

I think majority of meat eaters are uncomfortable with the thought of eating Bambi or Babe no matter what they say. They can''t handle the thought of killing their bunny to make stew and try to console themselves with the idea that as long as everyone does it and it''s been done for ages, it''s ok - safety in numbers. A veg. stirs up all of these uncomfortable feelings and generates a lot of negativity and self-doubt and must be convinced to come back to the fold. The people who have thought about why they eat meat wouldn''t put all veg as liberal hippies because they understand the ambiguities of how and why we eat.

Majority of people live in cities now and have never been close to livestock to see how they live and die. Their meat comes in neat packages in the supermarket without all the sinews, blood, skin and grisle. I''m not trying to gross anyone out and I don''t find it gross either. My grandparents had a farm, so I have seen all the gory details and are quite comfortable with them.

 

[AmberGretchen]

baby monster - I completely agree with you that I would NEVER try to force my own lifestyle choices on others, but that I do get a lot of flack and condescension and I think there are a lot of misconceptions about veggies in general. The lack of respect by others of my choice does bother me, because I feel that if I am respecting their choice to eat meat they should respect my choice not to, especially as I''m not doing anything that affects anyone around me (which is to say I don''t agree with that same choice argument if it is made about, for instance, smoking, where the secondhand smoke can have a profoundly unpleasant and dangerous affect on bystanders). In many ways, I don''t actually perceive it as a choice, since I find meat physically repulsive. I can''t help that any more than others can help finding it delicious.

Anyway, not suggesting that anyone has been disrespectful in this specific thread, but I have experienced disrespect and insulting behavior and clearly others (baby monster) have as well, and just a gentle reminder that choices, either way, should be respected as should the people who make them.

 

[monarch64]

Mara, I'm so interested in the whole craving something because our body may be missing those nutrients thing...I can see the logic in that completely. Maybe I'm abnormal, but even growing up rarely eating red meat and having a mother who worried constantly that I would become anemic because she always had been, my iron levels were always fine. But, I didn't grow up on fast food, rather, my bro and I were fed a plentiful diet (including lean meats) of fresh produce and whole grains, no sugary cereals, etc. I remember crying over not getting to have Lucky Charms or whatever at the grocery store sometimes when I was little, lol! Anyway, even going through puberty, and an eating disorder, and still not really eating a lot of animal protein, my bloodwork always came back normal...this past spring I went for a physical before my oral surgery to make sure I was good to go and all my tests came back great after almost 2 years of not eating meat at all. I wonder if, since I still consume dairy products and take a B12 vitamin, this is why I've never had issues...it's just funny that some people can eat their fill of meat and dairy and still have lower levels of iron or whatever. Wonder if our bodies are just able to hang onto those proteins or not depending on genetics or something? I.e., if it seems you get your fair share of animal proteins and are still borderline anemic, but I don't consume nearly the same amount of said proteins as you but have never been anemic at all, what's the deal? Just pondering that...and am seriously perplexed. Like what if I have a daughter who ends up maybe inheriting that "anemic" gene or whatever from my mother and she HAS to eat meat or she craves it, what will my position be then? The whole issue of whether or not to eat meat/if it's right or wrong is soooo shades of grey rather than black and white, ya know?

ETA: sorry to hijack, btw, Luckystar!

Funny story: I went to a retirement party for a gal from DH's company after 6 months of being veg...I ordered a pasta dish and there was a couple seated at our table who I know pretty well, the husband asked me why I didn't order a steak since the meal was "on the house" (tacky #1, ew), and I just simply said I don't eat meat. Whoa, that started a whole conversation and I and DH very politely tried to steer the subject away from the topic but this guy would just not let it go. The entire meal people at the table were literally teasing me about the whole issue and I did not feel comfortable saying anything that could be considered inappropriate to these people since DH had to go back to work with them the next day or whatever. It was really horrible, and now I just try to joke about it in public if someone doesn't already know I'm veg. My new line is "I'm not veg because I love animals, I just hate plants!" That usually gets a laugh and breaks the ice enough so that people don't feel insulted by my preferences. It may not speak of my truest convictions, but it offsets others' discomfort and sort of puts people at ease who might be otherwise ready for an argument or debate in a social setting.

 

[Mara]

actually monnie it''s interesting you said that about body holding onto proteins vs not...the last time i had bloodwork done the doctor said i was borderline anemic at that time, and that my body had a hard time holding onto the iron that it did get. i thought that was interesting as i had never heard THAT before though i have been kind of anemic and borderline off and on throughout my life. funny thing is i don''t feel tired or anything really typically regardless of whether i was borderline or not. so i wonder if there is something to it with genetics. but yeah i guess i do eat a fair amount of proteins but my body maybe isn''t as great with the iron?

 

[monarch64]

Date: 9/6/2007 1:14:54 AM
Author: Mara
actually monnie it''s interesting you said that about body holding onto proteins vs not...the last time i had bloodwork done the doctor said i was borderline anemic at that time, and that my body had a hard time holding onto the iron that it did get. i thought that was interesting as i had never heard THAT before though i have been kind of anemic and borderline off and on throughout my life. funny thing is i don''t feel tired or anything really typically regardless of whether i was borderline or not. so i wonder if there is something to it with genetics. but yeah i guess i do eat a fair amount of proteins but my body maybe isn''t as great with the iron?

Possible answer...I googled "anemia" and Mayo Clinic came up, if you go to their site under the term "anemia" and go to "causes" you''ll find the one that struck me regarding the issue we''re discussing. It''s called "vitamin-deficiency anemia" and talks about how some people''s bodies actually do lack the ability to absorb the B12 vitamin, etc. (B12 is the vitamin most recommended for vegans/vegetarians since it''s the only essential amino acid they can''t get just by eating a varied diet.) Next time you get bloodwork done maybe you could ask the doc to specify what type borderline-anemic you potentially are and explore further...there were several other types of anemia mentioned on the site, one of which was sickle cell, of course that name is recognizable due to its newsworthiness in recent years. Fascinating stuff, I love learning about how the human body works!

 

[San Diego Bride]

Date: 9/6/2007 1:54:18 AM
Author: monarch64

Date: 9/6/2007 1:14:54 AM
Author: Mara
actually monnie it's interesting you said that about body holding onto proteins vs not...the last time i had bloodwork done the doctor said i was borderline anemic at that time, and that my body had a hard time holding onto the iron that it did get. i thought that was interesting as i had never heard THAT before though i have been kind of anemic and borderline off and on throughout my life. funny thing is i don't feel tired or anything really typically regardless of whether i was borderline or not. so i wonder if there is something to it with genetics. but yeah i guess i do eat a fair amount of proteins but my body maybe isn't as great with the iron?

Possible answer...I googled 'anemia' and Mayo Clinic came up, if you go to their site under the term 'anemia' and go to 'causes' you'll find the one that struck me regarding the issue we're discussing. It's called 'vitamin-deficiency anemia' and talks about how some people's bodies actually do lack the ability to absorb the B12 vitamin, etc. (B12 is the vitamin most recommended for vegans/vegetarians since it's the only essential amino acid they can't get just by eating a varied diet.) Next time you get bloodwork done maybe you could ask the doc to specify what type borderline-anemic you potentially are and explore further...there were several other types of anemia mentioned on the site, one of which was sickle cell, of course that name is recognizable due to its newsworthiness in recent years. Fascinating stuff, I love learning about how the human body works!

some random (or not-so-random) information on anemia...

monarch, you are absolutely right that anemia can be caused by a variety of things. you can get an idea from the blood work that has already been done. each time you get a cbc (complete blood count) you get multiple numbers including white blood cells, platelets and red blood cells/hemoglobin/hematocrit, the 3 of which are used to determine if someone is anemic. on the same test you also get red blood cell indices (descriptors) including an mcv (mean corpuscular volume). this number describes the average size of the red cells themselves and can help you determine a likely factor in the anemia. if the mcv is low, iron likely plays a role since lack of iron results in small red blood cells. if the mcv is high, vitamin B12 or folic acid play a role since low levels of these vitamins result in large red blood cells. if it's normal, then you likely either produce too little or lose a little too much (ie: heavy periods). it's a little bit more complicated than that overall, but that's how doctors go about thinking about anemia. if you request a copy of your labs, you'll find the mcv reported and a normal range for that lab (different labs have different normals, but normal tends to be ~80-95). so there is a little medical lesson for the day.

by the way, i'm a physician (thus the anemia info) and have been a vegetarian for ~14 years.

 

[baby monster]

Thanks, Novia. I''m going to save your post and look at my test results after my next check-up. I always concentrate on cholesterol & triglyceride levels (total cheeseaholic here).

 

[Skippy123]

I am not a vegetarian, but Trader Joe''s has a nice selection of meatless items. I like the Boca Burger Basil cheese tomato burger, Morning Star corn dogs and TJ''s own chickenless nuggets.

 

[partgypsy]

I wish I could be more of a vegetarian, just that I "flunked" it.
I often wonder if I had to kill the animal if I would still continue to eat meat, and I don''t know. I think I would, just less often, again that whole thing of my body craving it. My uncle hunted and so he would bring home ducks and also deer, and so I''ve seen them freshly killed, and helped eat them. It is disturbing as a young kid and animal lover to see a large killed animal, but at the same time I felt if I didn''t eat the meat its dying would be even more in vain. My father grew up very poor and impressed on us the value of not wasting food.

The main thing for me is I try not to eat meat "automatically", if that makes any sense. Make it so when I do eat it, that I really appreciate it.

 

[monarch64]

Novia, thanks for sharing your expert knowledge! And good to hear you''ve been veg for 14 years and are in good health, that''s great to hear.