Monkey pox, Polio

[monarch64]

A friend of mine who works in healthcare has me rather concerned about monkey pox and the ease of transmission (air, surfaces, wastewater) as well as a resurgence of polio. No one here is talking about this? I’m surprised…can the medical pros discuss, please? I know that’s a lot to ask; I guess I’m just accustomed to seeing things pop up here before I even hear about them.

 

[Lookinagain]

My daughter called me tonight with the same question. No one is talking about what kind of contact can pass this. Do we have to start wiping everything down again? Is it airborne? She is very concerned and doesn't know what is okay. Are Covid precautions the same as Monkey Pox precautions? I'm not hearing much about precautions on the news.

 

[Karl_K]

cdc updated monkey pox information for what its worth...

Monkeypox in the U.S.

Learn more about monkeypox in the United States.

www.cdc.gov

 

[Lookinagain]

cdc updated monkey pox information for what its worth...

Monkeypox in the U.S.

Learn more about monkeypox in the United States.

www.cdc.gov

thank you. a bit scary if they aren't sure if it spreads through respiratory secretions. I guess we are definitely back to Covid type of precautions.

 

[Karl_K]

Polio has a lot of politics going on,,,,
It is being fueled by anti-vaxers and illegal immigrants who even if vaccinated may have received the live virus shot.

My mom was in an iron lung for 6 months due to polio when a child in the 1930s.

 

[Karl_K]

thank you. a bit scary if they aren't sure if it spreads through respiratory secretions. I guess we are definitely back to Covid type of precautions.

After doing some research I think that wiping things down with sanitizer is more important than it was with covid and masks less so unless being around or likely to be around an infected person.
Like with smallpox touching cloth that touched the sores can carry a huge virus load.
I'm thinking twice about staying in a hotel anytime soon.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

i just read we have our 3rd case today - they are self isolating
mokeypox is getting plenty of news
but what's up with polio ?
havnt we all been vaccinated ?

 

[Karl_K]

but what's up with polio ?
havnt we all been vaccinated ?

The areas in the US where it has shown up the most are areas with less than a 70% vaccination rate with high contact with carriers from outside the us.
One New York surge of 50 some cases was brought back by an anti-vaxer family's vacation in south america.
They then infected other anti-vaser's kids at a daycare.

The live vaccine used in many parts of the world can cause a spread of a generally mild form of polio to people with weakened immune systems or not vaccinated.
This accounts for many of the cases.
There are still some areas of the world with wild spread that are generally far more dangerous than the cases caused by the live vaccine.
The US banned the live vaccine many years ago.

 

[monarch64]

Ok, I am not at all one to freak out over medical stuff but this has me freaking out.

My friend is disgusted with the CDC (she’s very liberal, med pro family background) and she’s pissed that there isn’t more news about any of this.

I know damn well my ex will scoff at any type of precautions when it comes to my daughter, which will expose me, and countless others. She won’t want to wear long sleeves to school when it’s hot nor mask again and he won’t be of use. What do I do, just give up? My 79 year old mother is moving to our town soon. I can’t risk getting Her sick, either!

I’m honestly just beside myself about this. I’ve been gone through a ton of loss in the past 3 years. Just…I can’t do it anymore. Reading this before hitting “post reply” it sounds dramatic. F it. There’s been a big increase in the past week-ten days in travel nurse pay and regular nurse pay is the buzz…the healthcare industry is gearing up for something major.

 

[LilAlex]

It was appropriate to freak out about COVID-19. Monkeypox is totally different.

I think the most important thing is to avoid unprotected sex with MSM ("men who have sex with men"). That's not a super-big ask. I half-think that PrEP for HIV (= dumbest idea in the world -- like getting a bigger airbag so you can "safely" drive drunk) has caused a lot of back-sliding on condom usage in that community -- and that may have contributed to the emergence of monkeypox. I do not know that to be the case. OTOH, if you are too dumb or lazy to use a condom with an HIV+ partner (of any sex/gender), what won't you do?

My friend is disgusted with the CDC (she’s very liberal, med pro family background) and she’s pissed that there isn’t more news about any of this.

The CDC does the best it can. Just like with COVID, the public-health recommendations will evolve as our understanding of the disease evolves and as the community burden of disease grows. The only "good" news is that monkeypox is a little harder for the willfully ignorant to dismiss as "just a cold."

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

The areas in the US where it has shown up the most are areas with less than a 70% vaccination rate with high contact with carriers from outside the us.
One New York surge of 50 some cases was brought back by an anti-vaxer family's vacation in south america.
They then infected other anti-vaser's kids at a daycare.

The live vaccine used in many parts of the world can cause a spread of a generally mild form of polio to people with weakened immune systems or not vaccinated.
This accounts for many of the cases.
There are still some areas of the world with wild spread that are generally far more dangerous than the cases caused by the live vaccine.
The US banned the live vaccine many years ago.

still a bit of concern its in the community
its a terrible horrible disease as you know
i got vaccinated as a baby i guess but also got the booster as a drop on my tounge in the army

there was a fantastic doco on netflex about the American man who made the polio vaccine

my mum and dad's generation knew it, schools had to close and the cinema

was your mum able to live a good life after she recovered ?

 

[Karl_K]

was your mum able to live a good life after she recovered ?

Yes, she lived to 67 and had 3 Children.
She had some facial paralysis from polio and some weakness issues that played a part in her death.
She died of a hospital caught antibiotic resistant infection but the weak breathing muscles from polio as a child made it impossible for her to get off a ventilator which is why she was so long in the hospital/nursing home to get it after a bypass surgery.

 

[Snowdrop13]

You need pretty close contact to catch monkeypox, as mentioned above. Polio is different, spreads by the faecal-oral route. Hand washing is extremely important, as ever.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Yes, she lived to 67 and had 3 Children.
She had some facial paralysis from polio and some weakness issues that played a part in her death.
She died of a hospital caught antibiotic resistant infection but the weak breathing muscles from polio as a child made it impossible for her to get off a ventilator which is why she was so long in the hospital/nursing home to get it after a bypass surgery.

67 isnt old enough Karl

 

[missy]

Some info fyi

"Who should get the money pox vaccine?

Monkeypox is not nearly as aggressive as Covid-19. It’s not airborne, and it’s far less fatal. It’s also been around for decades.

But some similarities in how we have handled the two viruses have emerged: Vaccine distribution has lagged, as has testing. Typically endemic to Africa and rarely seen outside developing nations, monkeypox has now spread to more than 70 countries in just a few months.

To spur a global sense of urgency and coordination, last weekend WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus declared the outbreak a public health emergency of international concern.

But so far, the virus has also primarily spread within a single population: men who have sex with men.

“Although the incidence of monkeypox has increased 77% globally over the last month, the risk for the general public is believed to be low,” says Katrine Wallace, an epidemiologist at the University of Illinois at Chicago. “While not technically a sexually transmitted infection, it has made its way into highly interconnected sexual networks.”

Monkeypox, she says, spreads by direct contact with the infectious rash, scabs or body fluids, via respiratory secretions during prolonged face-to-face contact or during intimate physical contact, or by touching items such as clothing that previously touched the rash.

“There are two vaccines licensed by the Food and Drug Administration for the prevention of monkeypox: Jynneos and ACAM2000,” Wallace says. ACAM2000, however, is isn’t recommended for certain patient populations, including pregnant people, those with weakened immune systems and people with skin conditions. That’s put a lot of strain on the supply of Jynneos.

“Because of supply issues, and because the virus only spreads via very close contact, the Jynneos vaccine is currently only recommended for those at high risk of infection,” Wallace says.

For now, that group is limited to people who are likely to have been exposed to the virus.

“For those who are not high risk and do not qualify for the vaccine, prevention measures that can be used to prevent monkeypox are avoiding close, skin-to-skin contact with people who have a rash that looks like monkeypox,” Wallace says. — Kristen V. Brown

"

"

COVID-19 and Monkeypox: Similarities and differences​

Katelyn Jetelina Jul 28

In two short months, more than 18,000 cases of monkeypox (MPV) and five deaths have been reported across the globe. This is a rapidly evolving situation, but clearly a public health crisis.
While one takes hold (MPV) we concurrently fight another pandemic (COVID-19), so it’s tempting to compare the diseases and our responses. There are certainly similarities, but there are key differences, too.

Differences
​

MPV can be contained, but the window is closing. SARS-CoV-2 was (almost) impossible to contain because it was novel, mainly spread through the air, was very contagious, and spread asymptomatically. MPV doesn’t have these features, which means it can be contained and even eradicated. It’s not clear whether this window has already closed, though. We need to act fast.
Response efforts seem to be effective in some countries, like the U.K. and Germany, as acceleration of reported cases has slowed, as shown in the log graph below. Acceleration in the U.S. continues. It’s hard to know whether this is because of increased testing capacity (which would be good) or because this is getting out of hand. It’s likely a combination of both, but we desperately need real time test positivity rate numbers to know.

​

This is not a novel virus. SARS-CoV-2 popped up out of nowhere, so we had to build everything from scratch: our knowledge base, tests, vaccines, and treatments. MPV has been around since the 1970s, and we already have all these tools. The frustrating part is that we need access to them, and this is moving slowly.
Not everyone is at risk for infection. For now. A virus that primarily spreads through the air (COVID-19) means everyone is at risk for infection. A virus primarily spread through close contact (MPV) means there is a social network phenomenon; some people are at higher risk for infection than others.
Using WHO demographic data, 98% of cases are men who have sex with men (MSM). Sexual contact is the main mode of transmission (91%). Weekly European reports continue to confirm this: Cases are almost exclusively male, aged 18-50 years old, and 43% MSM (56% of sexual orientation data is unknown or missing). U.K. data shows that this is not due to biased testing either—men have a high test positivity rate while women and children have a very low rate.

​

(UK Health Security Agency)
But this could change. There is already a clear (but rare) spillover into other populations. For example, two children in the U.S. got MPV. (Note both cases were from in-home transmission, so maybe contact with infected sheets or clothes but not door handles.) A pregnant woman and her baby were also just infected (the story of how she got it is not public yet). We need to stop MPV from taking hold in high-risk groups or new animal hosts.

Similarities
​

Public health infrastructure. The U.S. is somewhere in the middle between being prepared and unprepared. Just like with COVID-19, the MPV outbreak is highlighting our neglected, under-funded, fragmented public health system in the U.S. that desperately needs fixing:

• Data infrastructure
• Contact tracing capacity
• Community engagement
• Communication
• Bureaucratic coordination
• Trust

Fixing this is complicated, expensive, and takes time. It is certainly not fixed overnight, and it’s not fair to assume that we already had the time to fix it. Regardless, it’s hard to watch.
But it’s important to acknowledge that we are also not starting from scratch. We’ve spent the last 30 months creating systems, building capacity, activating leaders, building scientific and communication teams, engaging stakeholders, and understanding faulty data. Unfortunately, much of this work started to unravel because funding was chipped away. We need to reactivate and/or adapt these efforts. We need to allow for local cross-funding too—we can use COVID-19 dollars for MPV.
We also need a more aggressive, or at least faster, federal response: No more “wait and see”, declare an emergency (so we can get funding), and appoint a leader, a point person, someone to coordinate and communicate.
Communication. In the beginning of COVID-19, I would argue we had close to zero communication. It’s still not great. With MPV, we have another added layer of complexity. Different groups need different messages. Everyone should be aware of how it’s transmitted and what to do if there’s an unexplained rash. But resources, vaccine messaging, and education need to be laser focused on the MSM network. However, we cannot pigeonhole ourselves to this group, because we need to prevent stigma and because the situation may change. That’s challenging to communicate.
Misinformation gaining speed. Just as it did with COVID-19, MPV misinformation is starting to spread.

• No, you cannot spread the virus with the new vaccine. (You could with the old vaccine, but that’s not being distributed right now.)
• Yes, the vaccine is safe. No, we don’t have effectiveness data among humans for MPV. We have 22 clinical trials showing that it works great with smallpox and primate studies for MPV.

There’s a lot we don’t know. Despite their warnings about MPV, scientists were not heard and MPV remained a neglected tropical disease. Because of this, there are still a lot of things we don’t know:

• What are the right doses and dosing intervals for vaccines?
• How effective is smallpox vaccination from the 1970s?
• What is the safety and effectiveness of the smallpox treatment TPOXX for MPV?
• Is the virus viable in wastewater?
• Is this a sexually transmitted infection? (We have preliminary evidence of live virus in semen, but need more data.)

The NIH is starting clinical trials to answer these questions. We also need to get data systems in place yesterday to track real-world data. (Are we using V-safe for MPV vaccines?) But, like with COVID-19, we have to make decisions now with limited information. For example, NY moved to delay second MPV doses to get more coverage while we wait for more vaccines (the right call). We are, once again, building the ship as we drive.

Bottom line
​

MPV is very different from COVID-19, but it certainly continues to highlight our vulnerabilities. We cannot give up; we have to do all we can to contain this before it establishes itself as another health risk in our repertoire.
Are we tired of this revolving door of panic and neglect yet?
"

 

[missy]

FYI Polio

"

Polio: An unfortunate reminder of the decline in routine vaccinations​

Katelyn Jetelina Jul 22

Yesterday, an unvaccinated, young adult was diagnosed with polio in New York and developed paralysis. They had no history of travel. This case follows a U.K. warning last month after London found several wastewater samples of the polio virus. Both instances suggest local community spread.
While the U.S. and many other countries use vaccines with an inactive virus, some countries use a lower cost vaccine with a weakened live virus. In some cases, the weakened virus can mutate and people can shed the contagious virus in their feces for several weeks (this is called a vaccine-derived polio case). It’s possible that a traveler lands in the U.S. with polio (the last documented case was in 2013), and it’s not unusual for London wastewater to pick up polio a few times a year. But it is very concerning that we see local community spread after we eliminated the virus in the 1970s.
This news doesn’t change anything if you or your children are fully vaccinated. You’re protected. (If you are unvaccinated, this should be a wake up call.) On a population-level, this is a sign of just how hard it is to eradicate a virus. It also highlights a larger theme bubbling to the surface in public health: a decline in routine vaccinations.

Unfortunate trend​

Over the past few years, we’ve seen a local and global decline in routine vaccinations. Last week, the WHO reported global coverage of diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis (DTP3) vaccine among infants dropped from 86% in 2019 to 81% in 2021. Global estimates of coverage with a polio vaccine similarly decreased. This followed a November 2021 WHO health warning citing the largest increase in children unvaccinated for measles in 20 years. (During 2020, more than 22 million infants missed their first dose of measles vaccine—3 million more than in 2019.)
Individual countries are also sounding the alarm. The U.K. issued a measles health warning in February 2022, as only 85.5% of children were vaccinated. (Measles needs about 95% vaccinated to reach herd immunity.) In the U.S. during the 2020-2021 school year, 94% of kindergartners had all required vaccines, which is high, but a drop below the target of 95%. The overall U.S. polio vaccine coverage is 92%—below the target set by the WHO to control the virus.
The decline in routine vaccinations in recent years has been largely attributed to two things.

Access to care during the pandemic​

At the beginning of the pandemic, disruptions in pediatric healthcare significantly impacted routine vaccinations among children. A JAMA studyfound the rates of weekly vaccinations across all pediatric age groups declined substantially during the early months of the pandemic, with the most drastic effect among children aged 4-6 years old. Racial disparities also emerged: Asian children were most up-to-date with vaccinations while African American/Black children had the lowest rate. Vaccines gradually returned to pre-pandemic levels for some age groups, but not all.
Another study published in Pediatrics found that, despite rates of specificimmunizations, like measles, recovering to pre-pandemic levels, total rates of up-to-date vaccinations remained lower compared to pre-pandemic rates.

Vaccine hesitancy​

There’s no doubt the pandemic exposed the intricacies of vaccines to the public. But it also exposed significant COVID-19 vaccine hesitancy among parents. It’s okay to have questions about the vaccines, as long as we can get evidence-based information to people in need. Many fear COVID-19 vaccine hesitancy will spill over to other routine vaccines and feed the already growing anti-vax movement. As Dr. Peter Hotez said in an interview: “[Anti-vaccine activists are] not going to stop at Covid vaccines. Their goal is to discredit all childhood vaccinations. This is going to become another battleground—trying to prevent childhood vaccinations from reaching baseline.”
A study published last week in JAMA assessed trends in parents’ confidence in childhood vaccines during the COVID-19 pandemic. They found parents’ concerns about safety and side effects for routine childhood vaccines increased between April 2020 and March 2022. Similarly, results from a February 2022 YouGov poll were not great: When asked whether parents should be required to have their children vaccinated against specific diseases, 71% said yes to MMR, 55% said yes to other infectious diseases, and 48% said yes to COVID.

Bottom line​

With a decline in vaccinations during the pandemic and increase in vaccine hesitancy, we should expect cases of diseases that have been largely silent, like polio, to now pop up. We are going backwards. We cannot lose decades-long progress towards eliminating vaccine-preventable diseases.

"

 

[Mreader]

@monarch64 I didn’t read all the replies but I’m not under the impression that monkeypox is airborne. It is spread through skin to skin contact. But what is really weird and strange and is cause for concern is that it normally just doesn’t spread as fast as it has been spreading and I think that scientists are a bit unnerved and confused as to why that is happening.

I’m also tired of the CDC because I feel like they should get a jump on it and increase vaccines because right now the supplies very limited. And I believe only one vaccine has fewer side effects there’s another one that has unpleasant side effects. In any case something to be watching.

ETA - i’m also dismayed that it seems to be dismissed as a “homosexual disease“ just like HIV was in the 80s. At the moment that seems to be where the biggest number of cases are, but it’s not limited to that and with the weird surge in spread we should not dismiss it as such. Seems to be a repeat of past mistakes.

 

[wildcat03]

I'm a medical professional and I'll be honest - after the last 2.5 years my available bandwidth for this is like...0. I have two kids who JUST got vaccinated for COVID (not due to any delay on my part - just the darn FDA and CDC playing their Pfavoritism politics). They are also both high risk if they catch monkeypox (under 8, have eczema).

I'm pretty sure I diagnosed a monkeypox patient the other day. I gently tried to discuss with the patient that his/her self diagnosis seemed incorrect. The response was to scream at me, spit at me, and storm out of the building. So I'm sure the patient is home isolating with his/her monkeypox. I tried contacting the health department but they told me they didn't care unless it was VERIFIED to be monkeypox. Unfortunately the patient would not let me test them.

I'll be real - healthcare is in crisis. And the CDC has decided NOT to prioritize healthcare workers for the monkeypox vaccine. So, this should go really well. We saw how 10 days of isolation went, I'm sure double that is absolutely nothing.

 

[AnastasiaBeaverhausen]

I'm a medical professional and I'll be honest - after the last 2.5 years my available bandwidth for this is like...0. I have two kids who JUST got vaccinated for COVID (not due to any delay on my part - just the darn FDA and CDC playing their Pfavoritism politics). They are also both high risk if they catch monkeypox (under 8, have eczema).

I feel the same. I'm in public education. The burnout from the constant shifting of dangers to watch out for and how to respond to them is real. My toddler just got her 2nd dose of the covid vaccine and still has 1 more to go. Most folks in my area have stopped wearing masks. At least half of the stores I go to don't offer free hand sanitizer at the door anymore. I do what I can, but blaaaaaah it's like fighting the tide.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

im more worried about foot and mouth in Indonesia right now
if some careless (criminal) traveler brought that into Australia or NZ what covid did to our economies would be small fry in comparison

a stupid stupid* person arriving in Aussie last week got a fine for forgetting she had a subway sandwich in her bag
i think she should have got jail time

declare declare declare and if you arnt sure declare it
its not like do not tell you on the plane and when you first get off the plane, there are multiple chances to bin it or just declare it !

wash your shoes before you get on the plane too btw

About foot-and-mouth disease

<p>Find out why it's important to keep foot-and-mouth disease out of New Zealand and learn to recognise the signs and symptoms.</p>

www.mpi.govt.nz

what is worse is this person was am Australian, not a visitor and should have known better

Model slammed by politician for failing to claim Subway sub at customs

Agriculture Minister Murray Watt said the harsh $2,664 fine a young model copped for failing to declare a Subway sandwich at Australian customs was fair.

www.dailymail.co.uk

*i say stupid but i mean f*cking idiot

 

[missy]

I'm a medical professional and I'll be honest - after the last 2.5 years my available bandwidth for this is like...0. I have two kids who JUST got vaccinated for COVID (not due to any delay on my part - just the darn FDA and CDC playing their Pfavoritism politics). They are also both high risk if they catch monkeypox (under 8, have eczema).

I'm pretty sure I diagnosed a monkeypox patient the other day. I gently tried to discuss with the patient that his/her self diagnosis seemed incorrect. The response was to scream at me, spit at me, and storm out of the building. So I'm sure the patient is home isolating with his/her monkeypox. I tried contacting the health department but they told me they didn't care unless it was VERIFIED to be monkeypox. Unfortunately the patient would not let me test them.

I'll be real - healthcare is in crisis. And the CDC has decided NOT to prioritize healthcare workers for the monkeypox vaccine. So, this should go really well. We saw how 10 days of isolation went, I'm sure double that is absolutely nothing.

I am not surprised but it is disheartening to read and I am sorry you are experiencing this level of disrespect from patients. It is UNACCEPTABLE. And yes, healthcare is in crisis and it is terrifying. Stay safe and take good care of yourself and your family. Some people aren't worth your energy or time. May your children remain safe and disease free.

Sending you good thoughts and gentle hugs and a big thank you for all you do for others.

 

[monarch64]

Monkey pox is now a US National emergency.

 

[LilAlex]

Monkey pox is now a US National emergency.

I guess that means it can be officially ignored or disputed now

 

[Matata]

I guess that means it can be officially ignored or disputed now

It'll be interesting to see if oozing pustules will motivate people to get vaccinated more than the prospect of suffocating to death with covid.

 

[monarch64]

Start asking for Jynneos vaccine if you’re in the US.