Most favorite royal, least favorite royal

[Pandora II]

I thought Andrew had girlfriends. Saw an interview today in the Daily Mail where Fergie said he's dating a very nice girl right now. Hmmmm, hadn't heard those rumors.

Me neither. He's always had a reputation as a ladykiller. My mom told me he once dated a **** star before he met Fergie. I imagine that didn't go over too well with the royals. Sarah didn't go over too well either. Ah well, as they say in Britain, Andrew just seemed to never go out with the right sort.

Although Sarah seemed the right sort for awhile - my mom maintains the Royal Family loved Sarah when she first came into the family which I find hard to believe. Apparently Diana was getting mad because everyone was telling her 'Why can't you be more like Sarah?' Ouch.

I have no confirmation for this other than my mom but she's a pretty loyal royal watcher and she usually is right.

Koo Stark (aka Koo Starkers) wasn't a **** star - she merely posed in the altogether in some magazine. But was very frowned on for that reason.

Sarah wasn't seen as quite right as she had lived with another man for several years before getting together with Andrew. I think she found it very tough when he pretty much disappeared off with the military as soon as the honeymoon was over. While this isn't unusual for military wives I think it's a bit different when you are stuck in the limelight, expected to start carrying out official duties and cope with all the 'rules' on your own.

She was seen as fun and young and bringing the RF down to earth - but the toe-sucking kind of wrecked that...

The Queen has asked that all her grandchildren date future brides for the best part of 5 years so that they have a chance to see whether the lifestyle is for them once the starry-eyed phase is over and they are looking clearly at a reality. One of the reasons that I think Kate and William will be such a successful marriage is that she knows the score and has signed up for it as she loves William not because she fancies playing princesses.

Re Hewitt - my understanding was that the relationship between Diana and Hewitt began before Charles started having an affair with Camilla (The understanding was that the affair began in 1986, but apparently Hewitt then admitted under hypnosis that the affair actually began in 1982 which would mean he could potentially be H's father). Before 1986 C & C were friends rather than sleeping together - but in the way that a wife would not like her husband to be friends with someone. ie. Camilla was his confidante rather than his wife having that role. Diana was also very aware that Camilla and Charles had a lot in common - they were closer in age, both like to hunt and had similar quieter interests like classical music and painting. Diana was a generation younger and with interests and tastes that her husband didn't share.

Strangely, many years ago when my parents were clearing out their attic they came across an old newspaper which had an article wondering if Charles would propose to Camilla - the photo of Camilla in her early 20's looked remarkably like Diana. It's always made me wonder if it was one of the reasons that he chose to marry Diana...

 

[AmeliaG]

Strangely, many years ago when my parents were clearing out their attic they came across an old newspaper which had an article wondering if Charles would propose to Camilla - the photo of Camilla in her early 20's looked remarkably like Diana. It's always made me wonder if it was one of the reasons that he chose to marry Diana...

Oh wow! Mom said Charles was well known before Diana for having a physical type and both Camilla and Diana fit that to a T. She suspected he married with his eyes which was why she never believed Camilla handpicked Diana as Charles' bride. Who in their right mind would choose a wife that is his perfect physical type and expect to keep him as a lover?

FWIW, she doesn't believe Camilla was always his soulmate - she thinks he settled. She says his most probable soulmate was a girl he dated quite seriously after he met Camilla and before Diana. I can't remember her name - she was the daughter of the Duke of something. But she was not his physical type - pretty but not blonde and rosy cheeked. Apparently she had the artistic side that Diana shared with Charles and the affinity for a quiet life like Camilla shared with Chares. At C&C's wedding, we noted that she was on the guest list and a commentator mentioned the two had maintained a friendship for years.

That came as a bit of a shock - from the papers at the time, you would have thought that Camilla was the only previous girlfriend Charles had kept up a relationship with.

 

[Pandora II]

Ah, the Duke of Wellington's daughter Lady Jane...

She didn't look that dissimilar either. I believe she left him as she wanted more independence than she would have got as a royal wife.

 

[Pandora II]

I can't find the picture that was in that old newspaper but here are a few of Camilla when she was younger: first one is from 1965 when she was 18 and the second from 1971 when she was 24.

The photo underneath is of Amanda Knatchbull (Mountbatten's grand-daughter).

Apparently Mountbatten (Charles's godfather and mentor) told him not to marry Camilla as she was 16 months older than him and not aristocratic enough. He also had ulterior motives in that he wanted Charles to marry his grand-daughter Amanda - and spent 4 or 5 years working on that.

His advice was: "In a case like yours, the man should sow his wild oats and have as many affairs as he can before settling down, but for a wife he should choose a suitable, attractive, and sweet-charactered girl before she has met anyone else she might fall for... It is disturbing for women to have experiences if they have to remain on a pedestal after marriage."

Charles did propose to Amanda in 1979, but it was shortly after her grandfather, grandmother and youngest brother had been blown up by the IRA and I think she felt that she and the rest of her family would become major terrorist targets.

A lot of the older 'aristocratic' girlfriends knew exactly what signing up to be the future queen would mean and ran a mile - they were also of a similar age and so judged him as a real person. Poor Diana at only 19 was rather swept up in the whole thing and probably didn't see Charles as the real person she would be married to - as Amanda's older brother warned Charles (as well as telling C that he wasn't in love with her). Prince Philip then told Charles that if he didn't get a move on and marry D that he would ruin her reputation...

 

[AGBF]

Apparently she had the artistic side that Diana shared with Charles and the affinity for a quiet life like Camilla shared with Chares.

Diana loved ballet and rock concerts. Charles loved architecture; gardening; and reading. He loved polo and riding and hunting (all done on horseback). She did not. He went shooting. She did not. His love of music was classical music: it was he who chose Dame Kiri Te Kanawa to sing at their wedding, after all. She was friends with Elton John. I don't think theiry really shared an artistic side. During their marriage, one read that they couldn't find any activities to share!!!

Deb/AGBF


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

 

[Pandora II]

Apparently she had the artistic side that Diana shared with Charles and the affinity for a quiet life like Camilla shared with Chares.

Diana loved ballet and rock concerts. Charles loved architecture; gardening; and reading. He loved polo and riding and hunting (all done on horseback). She did not. He went shooting. She did not. His love of music was classical music: it was he who chose Dame Kiri Te Kanawa to sing at their wedding, after all. She was friends with Elton John. I don't think theiry really shared an artistic side. During their marriage, one read that they couldn't find any activities to share!!!

Deb/AGBF


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

Ditto:

Both had artistic leanings and both liked music - just completely opposing types! Diana was very much a party girl - she hardly stayed at home doing quiet 'mummy' things after the divorce. Her own mother was very similar in temperament.

I'm quite fascinated that Catherine is allergic to horses when it is such a major part of William's life. Diana had fallen off a horse when she was younger and was scared of them.

 

[Ara Ann]

I have a few favorites...

Loved the late Queen Mother as well..she seemed so sweet and kind, but was also very strong...I admired her.


The Queen. It's funny, because my mother looks quite a bit like Queen Elizabeth and gets SO many comments to that fact, LOL. She is 2 years younger than the Queen and has grown up with her. My mother has heard this her whole life...so when I see Queen Elizabeth on TV, I think of my own 'Queen Mum'. I also told my mother we should have flown her to England for the Royal Wedding, she would have made a fortune as a Queen Elizabeth look-alike!

Love William and Catherine. Love them. He seems to be such a good guy, and the most 'normal' of the Royal men. Must have been Diana's influence on him. And Catherine is so elegant, yet also seems somewhat normal, not so over the top full of herself, as many young women would be in her position.

And love Harry too, but mostly because of the close bond he and his brother have...I have two sons as well and something about that brotherly bond 'gets me' as a mom. Harry does look like Hewitt, however, if Charles 'knew/thought' Harry wasn't his biological son and 'spare heir' - wouldn't he have wanted a third child, just in case? Would Harry's place in line for the throne ever be in question, based on questionable paternity? Or would that never, ever be brought up?



I don't like Charles that much...I think he is very full of himself and does as he pleases, he seems out of touch, more so than his mother...she doesn't seem to be self indulgent, I think she has a great sense of duty to her country, Charles comes off as being entitled...maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it seems to me.

I don't have positive or negative views on Camilla. What happened, happened. I did love Diana, but she was not a saint...and I agree, she made a very foolish choice to be involved with Dodi, when I saw her with him, I had a feeling of dread about them...and several months later, she was gone. Charles chose to move on and it happened to be with Camilla, a woman he had history with...would a 'new' woman have made it more acceptable? If Diana's sons have accepted her and are happy for their father, I think that matters most.

And sorry, but Andrew and Fergie's girls? They are a mess. They did appear to be more put together after the wedding, but really? How they were dressed at the wedding (hair and makeup too) was just...silly.

 

[AmeliaG]

Ah, the Duke of Wellington's daughter Lady Jane...

She didn't look that dissimilar either. I believe she left him as she wanted more independence than she would have got as a royal wife.

Ah, thank you, Pandora! Yes, that's it! The Daily Mail had an article on her and the comments were like 'Damn, she should have been our Queen' And this was a woman I had hardly known anything about. And I was like, Holy Sh!t, there's more to Charles' previous life than Camilla.

If she really left him because she wanted more independence, I bet the Royals are kicking themselves over that one, considering how much independence Diana eventually wanted and how much independence Kate and other royal wives seem to get. I wonder if her then demands seem rather tame in retrospect.

 

[Pandora II]

I don't think it was her demands, it was her decision that she already had a nice title, a couple of tiaras and a great house. She could do exactly what she wanted - go shopping, eat Big Macs, sunbathe in the nude, whatever all without being chased by the paparazzi and without having a permanent bodyguard at your side. Heck, William and Kate can't even pop down to the shops or the local pub without being followed by the security detail. If Kate decides to drive down to see her mother - then she has a passenger at all times.

Add to that the fact that no matter what your personal career ambitions may have been you will have to give the whole lot up to be patron of a gazillion charities and open hospital wings. The duties that come with being a member of the Royal Family are huge. You'd have to really, really love the guy to be prepared to sign up for a life like that.

She and many of the other aristocrats knew the score and so backed away.

I once spent a week as the guest of a very well-known billionaire in a European country (my then best-friend was his girlfriend) and it was a real eyeopener. When we arrived at the airport I noticed that his photograph was on the frontcover of 4 major magazines in the newstand. Everywhere we went the paparazzi were following. If we went into a boutique shop then it was closed while we looked (terrifying - especially since I was pretty penniless at the time). The chauffeur driven car had black-out windows in the back. We managed to go to the supermarket by sneaking in, but even then the chauffeur pushed the trolley and we had to point to what we wanted on the shelves. The up-side was amazing meals, hairdressers who came just to style your hair and manicure your nails, turkish baths and meeting lots of very interesting people. At all times we were accompanied by at least one bodyguard.

I met a very nice man out there who asked me out a few months later and I turned him down as I didn't want to get involved and potentially attached to someone when I could never live the lifestyle I would have to. It was really fun to be treated like a 'princess' for a week but it was so stifling that I would have been screaming to be rescued after a month of it!

ETA: Charles had a LOT of girlfriends!

 

[AmeliaG]

Apparently she had the artistic side that Diana shared with Charles and the affinity for a quiet life like Camilla shared with Chares.

Diana loved ballet and rock concerts. Charles loved architecture; gardening; and reading. He loved polo and riding and hunting (all done on horseback). She did not. He went shooting. She did not. His love of music was classical music: it was he who chose Dame Kiri Te Kanawa to sing at their wedding, after all. She was friends with Elton John. I don't think theiry really shared an artistic side. During their marriage, one read that they couldn't find any activities to share!!!

Deb/AGBF


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

Ditto:

Both had artistic leanings and both liked music - just completely opposing types! Diana was very much a party girl - she hardly stayed at home doing quiet 'mummy' things after the divorce. Her own mother was very similar in temperament.

I'm quite fascinated that Catherine is allergic to horses when it is such a major part of William's life. Diana had fallen off a horse when she was younger and was scared of them.

Oh certainly Diana and Charles had different temperaments. But Diana liked classical music - just not the pomp and circumstance that goes along with the public performances, etc. and Charles had been involved with many modern pop stars with the Prince's Trust. I don't know if he introduced her to Elton John but he had certainly known Elton before she did and he invited Elton to a function with him and Camilla after their marriage and they all seemed to get along quite swimmingly.

I think some of the figures in stage and film world that Diana later became very close to, she met through Charles. He introduced her to his friend, Sir David Attenborough for some speech coaching and she and Sir David became close after that.

But the temperament difference - that was huge, and totally unovercomeable.

 

[AmeliaG]

I don't think it was her demands, it was her decision that she already had a nice title, a couple of tiaras and a great house. She could do exactly what she wanted - go shopping, eat Big Macs, sunbathe in the nude, whatever all without being chased by the paparazzi and without having a permanent bodyguard at your side. Heck, William and Kate can't even pop down to the shops or the local pub without being followed by the security detail. If Kate decides to drive down to see her mother - then she has a passenger at all times.

Add to that the fact that no matter what your personal career ambitions may have been you will have to give the whole lot up to be patron of a gazillion charities and open hospital wings. The duties that come with being a member of the Royal Family are huge. You'd have to really, really love the guy to be prepared to sign up for a life like that.

She and many of the other aristocrats knew the score and so backed away.

I once spent a week as the guest of a very well-known billionaire in a European country (my then best-friend was his girlfriend) and it was a real eyeopener. When we arrived at the airport I noticed that his photograph was on the frontcover of 4 major magazines in the newstand. Everywhere we went the paparazzi were following. If we went into a boutique shop then it was closed while we looked (terrifying - especially since I was pretty penniless at the time). The chauffeur driven car had black-out windows in the back. We managed to go to the supermarket by sneaking in, but even then the chauffeur pushed the trolley and we had to point to what we wanted on the shelves. The up-side was amazing meals, hairdressers who came just to style your hair and manicure your nails, turkish baths and meeting lots of very interesting people. At all times we were accompanied by at least one bodyguard.

I met a very nice man out there who asked me out a few months later and I turned him down as I didn't want to get involved and potentially attached to someone when I could never live the lifestyle I would have to. It was really fun to be treated like a 'princess' for a week but it was so stifling that I would have been screaming to be rescued after a month of it!

ETA: Charles had a LOT of girlfriends!

Oh wow, Pandora! I don't think I could live that life either. Kinda fun to look into though.

This is why when you come down to it, I have a little more sympathy for the born royals. That doesn't mean that Charles should have had free rein to treat Diana however he liked but whatever hardships Diana, Camilla, or even Kate later endured, they did have a choice whether or not to accept this lifestyle but the born royals didn't - especially Charles. He couldn't turn away from the responsibilities without it impacting someone else - Andrew before he was married, and William afterwards.

I don't know if its true but I read that Edward VIII was not even allowed to live in England after he married Wallis Simpson. Knowing that and how English Charles seems to be and how PROUD of being English he seems to be, I think he would have felt enormous family pressure not to rock the boat. Its quite one thing to say go ahead and step down for the woman you love but quite another to say go ahead, step down, and say goodbye to your home country and the country you love forever.

And by the way, your whole family is going to be pissed at you for a very long time.

 

[Pandora II]

The Queen has never really forgiven her uncle for what he did to her father - forcing a shy man who dislike the lime-light onto the throne. Charles would have grown up knowing that and I don't think he would have dared repeat his great-uncle's behaviour.

Charles is also immensely proud of being British and takes the responsibilities very seriously. I'm quite a fan of what he does in terms of encouraging young enterprise with the Prince's Trust, the work he does to encourage the maintenance of old skills like traditonal masonry, dry-stone walls and his organic farms (they make very nice biscuits!).

I also support his rants about architecture - I know many people think he shouldn't interfere but he really has saved London from some monstrosities!