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My cushion question update...

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Roxie Bling

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Hi. I have not been able to find my elusive square (1 - 1.05) modern cushion 8 main in a 1.25 - 1.6 carat size. However, Mark at ERD did come across a 1.57 G VS2 with a 1.2 l/w ratio. I had my heart set on a square cushion, but I would like to at least check out what a 1.2 ration cushion looks like.

What website lets me search diamonds by l/w ratio... and shows actual pictures of the diamond?

He doesn''t have the stone in his possession, so I can''t get a photo yet. Unless I am sure I can live with more rectangular shape, I don''t want to ask Mark to go through the effort bringing it in house.

My other option is a 1.1 H VS2 square modern 8 cushion, table 56, depth 67, Symmetry = vg, Polish = excellent, no fluorescence. I asked for an ASET, but Mark says he doesn''t do those. I know he has a great reputation, so I want to trust him when he says it is an excellent diamond, but guess I am not there yet. He is going to be sending me the GIA report tomorrow. Are there cut grades for cushions (I meant I know that there are diamonds that are well cut, and badly cut, but is there some kind of measurable standard)? He does have the stone in his possession. I am attaching a picture. The cost is only $3,900 so I am wondering if there must be something wrong with it?

I was also hoping to go a bit larger, but there is NOTHING in the market place right now any larger within my price range (under 10k), in a modern cushion 8 main. So I thought maybe 1.1. would work since I have under a 3.75 finger. I certainly don''t want to have it for a year and feel the need to upgrade (you ladies wanting to upgrade from 2 cts. give a girl a size complex). I always thought I would be happy to just have a carat, but after trying on 1.5s, my eyes (and desire) have grown wider. Mark doesn''t hold much hope for waiting it out to find something larger in a square, and I feel like someone else will snap this 1.1 up if I don''t. I think I will hold it on my credit card tomorrow, have him send it to me so I can see it in person for 30 days. What kind of checking should I have someone do down here? I see there are 2 pricescope appraisers in my area, is that where I should take it and how much should I expect to pay?

Thank you for your help.

1 point 1 H VS2.jpg
 
Not a fan of that diamond - very dark. Don't settle for a rectangular diamond if you want a square! Keep waiting.

One of my favorite search engines is from http://www.adiamor.com/advanced_diamond_search.aspx. You can search by L/W ratio. They carry virtual diamonds so other vendors will be able to get hold of these diamonds.

I went through a bunch of the search engines and couldn't find anything that fits what you are looking for.
 
As always, thanks Charmypoo.

Could it just be the lighting that makes the diamond look dark? If not, what causes a diamond to be dark, the cut? Wondering especially since it is supposed to be an H VS2, or does that have nothing to do with it? Do you think it is not worth seeing in person to judge for myself? Anyone feel like going to see it for me (just kidding... kind of).
28.gif


Thank you.
 
I am not liking the looks of that diamond either, not one little bit.

Good Old Gold has pictures of their inventory, as does whiteflash.
 
CCL is best at explaining the technical aspects so I will let him do it. The darkness has nothing to do with the color but all to do with the cut.

This diamond is 3K more than your budget but I absolutely love it and perhaps you should consider it. It''s not a modern cut but sooo perfect.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6703/
 
Date: 1/27/2010 11:15:25 PM
Author:Roxie Bling
Hi. I have not been able to find my elusive square (1 - 1.05) modern cushion 8 main in a 1.25 - 1.6 carat size. However, Mark at ERD did come across a 1.57 G VS2 with a 1.2 l/w ratio. I had my heart set on a square cushion, but I would like to at least check out what a 1.2 ration cushion looks like.

That is likely to be the antique style like the GOG August Vintages we often talk about. Look at the certificate at inclusion plot if the arrows are thick it is antique. I wouldn't reccomend it if its a modern thin 8 main and so rectangular.

What website lets me search diamonds by l/w ratio... and shows actual pictures of the diamond?

For cushions none but a good place to look is GOG and just look at length and width.

He doesn't have the stone in his possession, so I can't get a photo yet. Unless I am sure I can live with more rectangular shape, I don't want to ask Mark to go through the effort bringing it in house.

My other option is a 1.1 H VS2 square modern 8 cushion, table 56, depth 67, Symmetry = vg, Polish = excellent, no fluorescence. I asked for an ASET, but Mark says he doesn't do those. I know he has a great reputation, so I want to trust him when he says it is an excellent diamond, but guess I am not there yet.

He has done ASETs, he did one for me, I think that he hasn't had a lot of luck selling stones if a customer has requested one because most stones he sells aren't up to the same cut standard as GOG signature stone and he isn't great at taking the photographs or ASET images. He doesn't spend time setting up the lighting or balancing the stones so they aren't always come out the most flattering (this is quite clear from the picture you posted).
Although Mark has a good reputation I'd say he also has a reputation for selling what is available even if its a good but not great stone.

He is going to be sending me the GIA report tomorrow. Are there cut grades for cushions
No and if there were they would be useless if they were just numbers on a certificate based.

(I meant I know that there are diamonds that are well cut, and badly cut, but is there some kind of measurable standard)? He does have the stone in his possession. I am attaching a picture. The cost is only $3,900 so I am wondering if there must be something wrong with it?

I was also hoping to go a bit larger, but there is NOTHING in the market place right now any larger within my price range (under 10k), in a modern cushion 8 main. So I thought maybe 1.1. would work since I have under a 3.75 finger. I certainly don't want to have it for a year and feel the need to upgrade (you ladies wanting to upgrade from 2 cts. give a girl a size complex). I always thought I would be happy to just have a carat, but after trying on 1.5s, my eyes (and desire) have grown wider. Mark doesn't hold much hope for waiting it out to find something larger in a square, and I feel like someone else will snap this 1.1 up if I don't. I think I will hold it on my credit card tomorrow, have him send it to me so I can see it in person for 30 days. What kind of checking should I have someone do down here? I see there are 2 pricescope appraisers in my area, is that where I should take it and how much should I expect to pay?

That is probably true but not a reason to act on it.

Thank you for your help.

Send it to Richard Sherwood if you can, he has seen a lot of cushions and can give you the most critical and thorough examination.

With respect to the photograph it is quite deceiving. See DDcha's thread https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/diannas-2-28ct-cushion-halo-by-mark-turnowski-erd.116187/ one of the photographs was shot so the middle looks darkand also with other lighting where the diamond is not dark at all in the same area. I have annotated the photograph to make this clear.

Green Arrows = Light Return (Good) (Red or Green on ASET) (These areas will light up and show fire in some lighting)
Red Arrows = Ares of Leakage (Bad) (White on White Background ASET) (You won't see much light return, brilliance or fire from those areas)
Blue Arrows = Areas of Contrast (Bad) (These areas will be the only ones that will be dark but if you tilt the diamond slightly they may show fire or not be visible at all)

The clear areas of the photograph are the areas of leakage and the darker areas won't actually be dark. Unfortunately Mark hasn't learned to setup the lighting well when he takes photographs but don't let that discourage you from seeing this diamond. Many people like modern 8 main thin diamonds with very similar appearance to this one.
Click to expand...
 
Annotated Photo. The Red arrow in the bottom left corner should be pointing to a clear not dark area sorry I must have extended the arrowhead too far by mistake.

cushionwitharrows.jpg
 
CCL, i think i''m gonna need your help in the upcoming months!!
9.gif
 
CCL, (or other expert), what does the term "thin" mean when describing this (or any) diamond? Not depth, right? Does it have to do with greater light leakage?

Thank you.

Wendy
 
Date: 1/27/2010 11:15:25 PM
Author:Roxie Bling
Hi. I have not been able to find my elusive square (1 - 1.05) modern cushion 8 main in a 1.25 - 1.6 carat size. However, Mark at ERD did come across a 1.57 G VS2 with a 1.2 l/w ratio. I had my heart set on a square cushion, but I would like to at least check out what a 1.2 ration cushion looks like.

What website lets me search diamonds by l/w ratio... and shows actual pictures of the diamond?

He doesn''t have the stone in his possession, so I can''t get a photo yet. Unless I am sure I can live with more rectangular shape, I don''t want to ask Mark to go through the effort bringing it in house.

My other option is a 1.1 H VS2 square modern 8 cushion, table 56, depth 67, Symmetry = vg, Polish = excellent, no fluorescence. I asked for an ASET, but Mark says he doesn''t do those. I know he has a great reputation, so I want to trust him when he says it is an excellent diamond, but guess I am not there yet. He is going to be sending me the GIA report tomorrow. Are there cut grades for cushions (I meant I know that there are diamonds that are well cut, and badly cut, but is there some kind of measurable standard)? He does have the stone in his possession. I am attaching a picture. The cost is only $3,900 so I am wondering if there must be something wrong with it?

I was also hoping to go a bit larger, but there is NOTHING in the market place right now any larger within my price range (under 10k), in a modern cushion 8 main. So I thought maybe 1.1. would work since I have under a 3.75 finger. I certainly don''t want to have it for a year and feel the need to upgrade (you ladies wanting to upgrade from 2 cts. give a girl a size complex). I always thought I would be happy to just have a carat, but after trying on 1.5s, my eyes (and desire) have grown wider. Mark doesn''t hold much hope for waiting it out to find something larger in a square, and I feel like someone else will snap this 1.1 up if I don''t. I think I will hold it on my credit card tomorrow, have him send it to me so I can see it in person for 30 days. What kind of checking should I have someone do down here? I see there are 2 pricescope appraisers in my area, is that where I should take it and how much should I expect to pay?

Thank you for your help.
Click to expand...

If you preferr a square cushion by all means hold out for want you want. You''d regret it later if you didn''t. You want to be confident and secure in your decision.

If you just want to get an idea of how a 1.2 ratio cushion looks. My avatar shows a 1.2 ratio cushion mounted north/south.

Hope this helps. I wish you luck with your cushion search.
2.gif
 
Date: 1/28/2010 7:49:48 AM
Author: Roxie Bling
what does the term 'thin' mean when describing this (or any) diamond? Not depth, right? Does it have to do with greater light leakage?

Thank you.

Wendy
Click to expand...
Hi Wendy

Thin generally refers to the girdle thickness, thin is a variation which is usually within desirable range. Read more from the Pricescope tutorial on girdle thickness.

The diamond in the photo looks too dark to me, but ask Mark how it looks in reality and if he can get an ASET image and perhaps more photos.
 
I was reading on another thread that you have something in the works - any updates for us!!
 
I''ve been kind of laying low on commenting about myself until I have something definite (I still don''t). I have two primary avenues that I am looking into now.

1) Since there appears to be nothing on the market that I won''t feel I compromised for, I am considering getting one custom cut. Thoughts?

2) The independent designer/bench jeweler that I have been dealing with locally found a stone for me to look at but I am not sure about it. I have not seen it yet, but here are the specs I have been given:

1.5 ct H SI1,
6.39 x 6.89 (which I think makes the ratio 1:1.7, so more rectangular than I really would prefer)
68.7 depth and 56 table

I''ll see it on Thursday. Charmy, I think you posted on another thread that maybe the poster didn''t want a 1.5 ct stone since they often were cut for weight and not for performance, so that is in the back of my mind when I go to see it also. Trying to keep my expectations low so that I can be pleasantly surprised.
 
#1 - Custom cut could be an option if you can find someone to custom cut it for you. I don''t think there are many around that do this. When I was shopping for my second cushion, I gave my spec requests to Jon and he had one cut. This was still during the early stages of the AVC development so they didn''t have as much inventory back then.

#2 - I have a feeling it will be too rectangular for your liking. It doesn''t hurt to go look at it but don''t settle! The shape of the stone actually makes a huge difference in terms of personal preference. It can change the whole look of the ring.
 
What specs did you give him?

Maybe I will start a thread on what the specs of the perfect squarish 8 main cushion look. Think I would get some good responses?
 
Date: 2/13/2010 10:55:14 PM
Author: Roxie Bling
What specs did you give him?

Maybe I will start a thread on what the specs of the perfect squarish 8 main cushion look. Think I would get some good responses?
Click to expand...
There are really no perfect specs for a cushion. I don''t think there are many cutters who are experienced in doing a good cushion.

I gave Jon specs in terms of color, clarity, ratio. I was very picky with a high color and clarity and a perfect 1.0 ratio.
 
Here is the cushion that my custom cut diamond would be modeled after. I was hesitant to post it because I almost don''t want to hear all that is wrong with it. But, have at it. To my untrained eye, I think it is a beauty that I would be more than happy to wear.

cushion model.jpg
 
It looks really neat to me - not like anything I have seen before. What does the plot look like?
 
Just another thought - if your cutter can cut anything .. do you think they can do a hearts and arrow with more rounded corners?

I would expect cutting different diamonds would be very challenging.
 
Date: 2/13/2010 10:55:14 PM
Author: Roxie Bling
What specs did you give him?

Maybe I will start a thread on what the specs of the perfect squarish 8 main cushion look. Think I would get some good responses?
Click to expand...
Roxie,

Custom cut for a cushion is not really an option unless that cutter can show you and prove to you their work.
Jon at GOG only take orders for his branded line of diamonds like the AVC where he knows precisely the optics and how to achieve them. The danger with a custom cut is that you are stuck with the diamond no matter how it turns out, and even with Jon''s AVC line and the same cutters with experience they don''t all turn out and many have to be sent back. Jon takes the risk on these stones not the consumer but that isn''t always the case if you find our own cutter.

There are way too many things (like Crown Angle, Pavillion Angle, LGF% etc) that have to be perfected in order to get a top performing stone.
If you wanted even a slight chance of success you would need to provide a full helium scan and better still or an actual diamond to the cutter to duplicate.
 
Date: 2/14/2010 9:35:50 AM
Author: Roxie Bling
Here is the cushion that my custom cut diamond would be modeled after. I was hesitant to post it because I almost don't want to hear all that is wrong with it. But, have at it. To my untrained eye, I think it is a beauty that I would be more than happy to wear.
Click to expand...
You cannot tell light performance from a photograph definitively only facet structure. Its a modern 8 main thin cushion with what looks like a medium culet look spretty. But otherwise I can't tell you about its light performance.

Have you seen this video? http://www.vimeo.com/9188543
 
Thanks Charmy and CCL.

I have seen that video. Jonathan at GOG actually made it at my request to help me sort through the various cushion cuts. Seems like it has the possibility to help lots of cushions hunters like myself. Even though the video clearly showed that a 4 main can outperform an 8 main, I am just not drawn to the facet pattern of a 4 main. So, at least for me, I would probably compromise performance somewhat (not totally) before I would compromise the cushion cut I want.

The PS vendor I am working with is not obligating me to buy the cushion they are cutting. If I do not purchase it (although I hope this does not happen), they will just add it to their inventory. The cutter will have the diamond in the picture with him to cut from. Then once the diamond is cut, it will be sent to GIA to get certified. Hopefully, after that I can get an ASET from the vendor, but if not, I will ask for the appraiser I send it to do that. I feel like the vendor is going out of his way to help me get the stone I want when many probably would have given up. I mentioned cutting in the hearts and arrows pattern and rounding out the corners, and the vendor said he will talk to the cutter about it, but if neither of those are possible, I am pretty happy with the look of the diamond as is.

I feel I have explored the options that are available to me, and this is the best one (unless any PSers turn in their existing 8 mains to upgrade to an AVC or something else, then I will be happy to purchase their trade in).

Thank you for taking the time to follow and contribute to my search for my ideal cushion. I really appreciate it.
 
I am really excited for you. Your process sounds very low risk and really excited. You could start a brand new trend here!

I will keep my fingers crossed for you. I am really rooting for you to find your dream ring. I have been there and know how it feels.
 
Sounds exciting Roxie!
 
Having the opportunity to have one cut for you is pretty special, especially if you do not *have* to buy it. I can''t wait to see your update Roxie!
 
Date: 2/14/2010 5:32:00 PM
Author: Roxie Bling
Thanks Charmy and CCL.

I have seen that video. Jonathan at GOG actually made it at my request to help me sort through the various cushion cuts. Seems like it has the possibility to help lots of cushions hunters like myself. Even though the video clearly showed that a 4 main can outperform an 8 main, I am just not drawn to the facet pattern of a 4 main. So, at least for me, I would probably compromise performance somewhat (not totally) before I would compromise the cushion cut I want.

The PS vendor I am working with is not obligating me to buy the cushion they are cutting. If I do not purchase it (although I hope this does not happen), they will just add it to their inventory. The cutter will have the diamond in the picture with him to cut from. Then once the diamond is cut, it will be sent to GIA to get certified. Hopefully, after that I can get an ASET from the vendor, but if not, I will ask for the appraiser I send it to do that. I feel like the vendor is going out of his way to help me get the stone I want when many probably would have given up. I mentioned cutting in the hearts and arrows pattern and rounding out the corners, and the vendor said he will talk to the cutter about it, but if neither of those are possible, I am pretty happy with the look of the diamond as is.

I feel I have explored the options that are available to me, and this is the best one (unless any PSers turn in their existing 8 mains to upgrade to an AVC or something else, then I will be happy to purchase their trade in).

Thank you for taking the time to follow and contribute to my search for my ideal cushion. I really appreciate it.
Click to expand...
Who is it you are working with for the custom cut ERD?

Regarding the video, you will find the 8 main pictured in the video performs better outside of the dock where lighting can get in through the girdle and the side. You will also find Jon chose the best 4 mains he could find out of his inventory and that he is not able to reproduce sourcing stones with the optics of those stones on a consistant basis.

The major weakness of the 8 main was in the sparkle scintillation, the 8 main in the video had good spread and brightness but lacked fire in part due to a more shallow crown.
I am still disappointed he didn't take the diamonds outside of the dock under his strong spot lighting that is after all where modern faceted brilliants are at their best.
 
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