My ruby has been lost/stolen? - steps to take?

[Arkteia]

Hi Minou,

Merry Christmas, and thank for your support!

Here is the issue. Scott says he basically has no money. Honestly, at this point in time I do not believe anything, I think if I let things go as they are, I shall get my ring at 6 months at best. So, the ruby I have to get back. As Kenny has rightfully pointed out, there are better rubies in this world (thank you, Kenny! ), but this one is mine. I have already made an arrangement with someone else to take over the job...it is here in WA, so in case of a delay, I can at least check on a person.

(And you can imagine how upset I am to get on the PS with all this mess, after Christmas, sorry, )

As to the deposit... all I know is that I am taken for a complete sucker. My friend who was at my house yesterday found a perfect word to describe it all.

Humiliating. This is what it is.

Why should i, a trusted client, an adult person, spend my time chasing someone on Facebook, pay to get the number of the only un-disconnected phone, leave message (that no one bothered to return), send emails, and now pay postage to get my stone back? And not even get the deposit? This, from a person with established business?

So... Scott, I think it is the time to come here, or if you are not a member, at least publicly on the Facebook, on your own Facebook, I am not answering your pms any longer. Why don't you explain the situation, and resolve it, openly, to mutual agreement? I do not know your circumstances, they may be dire, I am 50/50 on that, but I think it is more difficult to manipulate the situation if it is public.

 

[Arkteia]

Chrono, it seems that people have lost all honor these days. I mean, take your money, probably knowing he is going to get out of business???

 

[minousbijoux]

It really is unfortunate, as there is a group of PSers who've been actively considering commissioning work from him after seeing some of his work. I don't know that they will continue to be interested after this thread.

 

[Arkteia]

Maybe he will treat them different.

Consider this, I have been trying to communicate with Scott since mid-November. And the first time he responded was after this thread. Which is, really, the last attempt to avoid litigation.

His work is as good as his pictures, by the way, he is very talented.

And he admitted that he had finished two big works between the time that I had commissioned my work and our yesterday's communication. One of them was technically very hard, I assume.

But again, if you can not meet the deadlines, and the client cancels the job, it's cancelled! It was canceled on Nov 21st, btw, a month before I am posting these lines. Enough time to somehow resolve the situation.

 

[arkieb1]

I am really sorry I hope you manage to sort it all out and at least get your lovely ruby back soon.

 

[yssie]

Arkteria I've "known" you for a long time here on PS. You've always been kind, generous, and trusting - those qualities are what make you such a warm and welcoming person, and I'm honestly so sad that you've been given reason to question those parts of your personality

This situation is horrifying. I have all fingers and toes crossed for your ruby's quick and safe return - like you said, who cares if it's not the most monetarily valuable ruby around? It's *yours* and you love it! - and I also agree that a just ending to this tale requires the chapter wherein you get your deposit back. It's really unfortunate that you'll have to go about chasing an established businessman, but... That's not a reflection on you. Truly.

::HUG::

 

[Arkteia]

Thank you, everyone who has given me advises.

Scott has not appeared here. He is probably posting on his Facebook, excluding me from the people who can read his posts (I can only suspect it, because the post of the ring that I was seeing before, suddenly, disappeared).

Scott has a favorite word, "mensch". Scott, because you are probably reading these words, I believe your way of responding is not "mensch". I have to say it.

And now, so that people who are Scott's friends can understand my situation...

I once waited for the earrings from Scott for almost a year. I never had to beg Scott to take my order, he asked me to commission something from me. Since neither of us got any younger, in my original communication re. this ruby, I asked Scott if he would beat his own record (of procrastinating). He promised 72 days from receiving the stone.

August 25 - stone received

Sep 15 - the drawing of the design sent to me. I am not very happy with it (wanted some more diamonds around) - Scott asked for some time to think. To be fair, Scott's finished items look better than his drawings, so maybe it was lack of my imagination.

September 21 st - Scott asks for more time. (Another project). I do not feel comfortable quoting Scott verbatim (although he did once cut and paste my private conversation with him on his FB, but I am still not sure about the legality of it).

Here is what he writes to me. Basically, the idea is that he can not sacrifice the quality of the job, or he has to honor the promise that if the job was to be delivered after the 5th, that he'd be obligated to credit the deposit of $1500 against the balance due (which he would honor of course, he says). So he is asking me for the extension. I ask what the "realistic" date would be, and he says, November 5th is as realistic as he can get. He also says that the ring is the only job he has on his bench right now... and will be until it's done.

So I grant the extension. (Being 99% sure that it will not be done by November 5th. But not prepared to what followed).

October 23d. No ring, no rendering. I ask how my project is and Scott asks me not to rush him. Very nicely, though.

October 26th. Exasperated, I feel that I shall not get another design from Scott, and if I want to get anything at all, I'd better agree to his original one. I pm to Scott saying, OK, go ahead with the one we have.

October 27th. Scott says full ahead.

November 13th. I send a message, "How is my stone"?

Silence.

November 19th - after several messages, unanswered, I ask to send me back the stone and the check. No response.

I send more pms, no response. No response to my emails. HIs two phone numbers listed are disconnected. His Facebook is inactive since late October. and on December 1st, I formally cancel the order.

Somewhere around this time, I do a safety check on Scott - he is alive and in no danger, the police says. Trouble with the phones.

So I contact my lawyer who advises me to make a formal complaint to the police department about grand theft. This seems too harsh for me - I do not want to destroy Scott's business - so I wait. Then my lawyer sends an informal letter. No response. Around this time, I find the only un-disconnected phone listed under his name, and leave a message saying the same - that he is a great jeweler, but not for me, and asking to return the stone and the deposit. No answer.

Last week my lawyer sent out a registered letter advising about the deadline of December 29th.

On December 25th, one of my friends (not in the jewelry business, not even on the fringe of it) casually suggests that "he probably sold it a long time ago", and these words suddenly break the frail support still holding the wall of my patience. And I turn here for help.

That evening, Scott suddenly reemerges on the Facebook. tells me that he "just now" read all my pms, and asks to allow him to work at the stone... Saying that he bought the parts for the ring. (Remember, on September 21st he said, this ring was his only project on the bench right now). He mentions that he had two project to finish during that time.

So, from the legal standpoint, the contract has been violated. Scott acknowledged that he had to return the deposit in the communication where he asked for the extension. This is as good as acknowledging that the deposit is refundable.

Worst, just disappearing and pretending I do not exist - while holding my stone (and the deposit) - from October 27th to December 25th is enough reason for me to turn to help here. This is the part that is highly irregular. I have worked with many jewelers, some prompt, some not too often, but disappearing from everyone's radar has raised it a notch higher.

I think I have made my case pretty clear.

For people who want to work with Scott - again, he is very talented, one of top jewelers, no doubt, just a natural artistic talent... his drawings are beautiful... a very good artist. This is why I chose an expensive (for my budget) stone for him to set, after all. I think that he may prioritize work, perhaps it depends on the price of the order, and since my order is off his shelf, he may do things faster for you.

(Heck, I remember Michelangelo who was always backlogged, always quarreled with patrons, and yet left us such beauty. Maybe it is typical for artistic temperament? I, unfortunately, am too old to wait).

 

[kenny]

This sounds typical of those people who can only get by self-employed because they have a serious drug or alcohol problem.

 

[OreoRosies86]

I can't believe he thinks working on this is still an option!

 

[lovedogs]

This entire story is terrifying, and I feel so sorry for you! I echo the other posters that you need to get your stone back, and then fight to get the deposit back asap. I wouldn't hesitate to use a lawyer if you need to, even though I completely understand that you wouldn't want to go that route unless absolutely necessary. You seem like a very trusting and kind person, and I am very sorry this happened to you. It's stories like this that make it hard for honest vendors to get business, and makes me so angry

 

[Arkteia]

This sounds typical of those people who can only get by self-employed because they have a serious drug or alcohol problem.

Kenny, and this is something I could understand, after all, it is my cup of tea. Ironically, this is what I am treating, often, dealing with on a daily basis, and viewing as an illness, not a bad habit. But to get some help, a person needs to admit that this is a problem, and stop pretending. Just be honest, once, with friends, and help will be available.

 

[Arkteia]

This entire story is terrifying, and I feel so sorry for you! I echo the other posters that you need to get your stone back, and then fight to get the deposit back asap. I wouldn't hesitate to use a lawyer if you need to, even though I completely understand that you wouldn't want to go that route unless absolutely necessary. You seem like a very trusting and kind person, and I am very sorry this happened to you. It's stories like this that make it hard for honest vendors to get business, and makes me so angry

Lovedogs, the irony is, I am not trusting. If anything, I am realistic. Every day, I meet with people, and I never see them through rosy eyeglasses. It is just my field of expertise. I know people are not perfect, no one is, and to be able to survive in this world without being at each other's throats, we have to work with one another... our drawbacks notwithstanding. As to kindness, not sure. Some people who are in this business may seem more judgmental, but I know they are really kind, donating to charities, and helping people more than I do. I am patient, and not a worrier, and this is my main strength. But, not trusting, merely believing that one should reason with people first.

 

[chrono]

Ark,
I am so very sorry. There is definitely something happening on Scott's side for the situation to degenerate this far, but in truth, that is not your problem. The issue is that he has not met his promised obligation to you, continues to not meet the obligation, and it is now too late to try to meet that obligation. I know that you are a very kind, fair and honourable person, but please remain tough and continue the path of legal action to get your stone and deposit back. Again, I am so sorry for your troubles. I usually do not post on weekends, but this is so upsetting and distressing, that I had to log on, even just to post and run. Pleas email me if you need a shoulder to lean on. I am always here for you.

 

[Lovinggems]

Long time no see. Hope you get your ruby and deposit back soon Arkteia! I don't see a ruby ring but there's a new tourmaline ring on his FB page .

 

[Arkteia]

And a beautiful one! He has the talent, no doubt.
He said he will send me the stone but the deposit was not refundable! Despite prior conversation of September 21st, in which he said that since he was not meeting the deadline, he would be honored to return the deposit. Per Kenny's advice, I took a screenshot of that conversation.

 

[kgizo]

I'm sure your lawyer can give you advice on this, but I don't see how the deposit can be nonrefundable since he broke the contract terms by not meeting the delivery date. Is small claims court an option?

 

[missy]

Arkie, just sending my support for you during this unpleasant and unhappy experience. I am so sorry you are going through this and shame on Scott. No matter what he is going through that does not give him license to treat you this way and behave unethically not to mention unprofessionally. Yes I can see where this would give you pause to work with anyone online ever again.

Hoping everything works out and that you get your precious and beautiful ruby back as well as your deposit. Sending you hugs and good luck vibes for a successful resolution.

 

[Arcadian]

Oh my goodness, This is bad on so many levels and my heart goes out to you.

None of his behavior is ok! Like TL said, this guy is a thief. He took way advantage of you. For sure, do what you can to get your stuff back + the deposit because homefry is straight crazy to think its OK to do this to someone.

 

[arkieb1]

Get the stone back first and then complain or get your lawyers onto every consumer complaints group possible in your city/state to recover the deposit. You paid for and were verbally (and probably in writing too) promised something for your deposit. Fraud is fraud no matter what the excuse.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Lovely to see you!

Hoping for a positive resolution to your current circumstance.

Yours in support--Sharon

 

[derbygal]

Thank you for posting your situation/story. I hope you get your stone and deposit back. It is really a sad, sad story.

 

[cokitty]

This thread is like taking a step into another world. We so often only see positive posts, thank you for taking the time and energy to post such a detailed recollection of events. It is important to alert people, when possible, to unscrupulous vendors. I am very sorry to hear that this Scott fellow is not honoring his timeline, his return policy, or even basic good business sense. I hope you are able to get every penny back.

 

[Indylady]

Good luck Artketia, and please keep us posted. You should absolutely be getting your deposit back. You should file in small claims court--it may be a lot of trouble if you're not based in California.


Contract — The claim may be heard in the county or area of court location in which the contract was entered into, where the contract was to be performed by the defendant, unless the claim arises from a consumer purchase.

Consumer purchase (claim by seller) — A claim to enforce a debt arising from a consumer purchase can be filed only in the county or area of court location (1) where the consumer signed the contract, (2) where the consumer resided when the contract was signed, (3) where the consumer resided when the action was filed, or (4) where goods purchased on installment credit are installed or permanently kept.

Consumer purchase (claim by buyer) — An action also can be filed in localities (1), (2), or (3) immediately above by the consumer against a business firm that provided the consumer with goods, consumer services, or consumer credit. An action also can be filed by the consumer in any of those locations if the suit is based on a purchase that results from an unsolicited telephone call made by the seller to the buyer (including a situation where a buyer responds by a telephone call or electronic transmission).

http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/small_claims/file.shtml

 

[iLander]

The concept behind a deposit is that it is applied to work being done. If there is no work being done, the deposit does not apply, and it should be refunded. Tough $hit if he has issues, it's your money and he owes it to you. Period.

If you ordered a couch from a store, and they said no couch was forthcoming, would you say "That's okay, keep my deposit"? Of course not.

Hopefully, your lawyer included the return of your deposit in the letter you sent.

He also needs to return your stone. That's just obvious.

This guy is a slimeball. Especially if he pops up on FB trying to save his reputation and doesn't do anything to make you whole. Weasel.

Is he on the PS list? If so, he needs to be removed. And taking almost a year to do a simple job (like he did for you earlier) does not make him PS-worthy, IMHO.

 

[cloreene]

So sorry to hear you have to deal with this! I hope you get your ruby and money back. Best of luck and thank you for sharing your experience!!!

 

[mtsapphirelovingannie]

Arkteria, I am sorry to read about your trouble with this jeweler. I appreciate you posting this situation so others can me aware.

I hope you get your ruby back. I don't know enough about the this type of law but I hope you get your deposit back too. I wouldn't send him another stone. I bet you wouldn't look at any ring he might create with happiness.

 

[Arkteia]

Thank you all for support! I do hope Scott will have the guts to return all of it back to me before the situation really turns sour.

I am now trying to step back and look at this situation impassively.

In his defense - the irony! - I think he is talented, in many ways. If you look at his FB, or Flickr, he is also a very goodartist/painter, he writes stories, or could write, he has this ability to express emotions, and his rings could probably end in Masters series, if he organized things a little bit different. He is anything but mass production. And people do delay orders. Someone has a close relative dying, someone is under the weather, someone simply has grabbed too many. Maybe it is the profession. It's this passive-aggressive attitude to communication, hoping that the situation will resolve by itself (it never does!) that turned it into a nightmare.

Perhaps when we enter the world of one-man production, away from outsourcing orders, etc., we are at a risk of getting what I got - headache! - and finally, something beautiful, if we persevere.

Two men come to mind. One, Modigliani, who was horribly poor and self-destructive and left nothing to his wife, and now is considered one of the most outstanding painters of the XX century (see "Montparnasse, 19", a beautiful French movie), and Michelangelo, who could be rich, was acclaimed, had popes as patrons, and yet his whole life was one never-ending toil and never meeting deadlines ("The Agony and the Ecstasy", a wonderful book by Irving Stone).

This all being said, I am firm in getting everything back from Scott, because it is sheer manipulation on his part. I also think that for me it is better to not work with him because my temperament does not suit his. For some reason, he put me into the group that can wait, and will wait, and this is a bad place to be in.

But, other people get beautiful things done by him, heirloom pieces, no doubt. If they have the personality to deal with him. Which means, stronger than mine.

 

[Arkteia]

Hi Indy,

Thank you for the info! The irony is, my lawyer has been able to recover items stolen from his clients (situations similar to mine) in the past. I just do not want to end up in litigation. If you see the amazing ring he made for someone's wedding...someone else might be happy, no use for me to destroy him, or his business, I just need to get my stuff back. But if we are to file, we are doing it "the right way", yes.

I think for Scott, it is easier to make a contract re. payment arrangement, and as soon as possible, as well as send my stone back on Monday.

To all - on a different note - I am happy to see so many new things in avatars! I have gotten several beautiful items, too, although this year was hard, and not dedicated to jewelry. I made many pictures of this ruby, actually, it is better than in photos, and I am happy that I have not deleted a single photo, because I can always compare now. Here is a ruby and a sapphire in my back office room, little light.

 

[mastercutgems]

Arkteia;

I am so sorry you are having to go through all this stress. No one likes to get the short end of the stick and especially when you have other things going on in your life and then this. For this I am truly sorry.

I have read all the threads on this post and try to think why would someone do this and I am out of thoughts as I can come up with none that make sense...

I know the old saying you cannot get blood from a turnip ( ole southern thing) but maybe he has something that can be of interest to you; a stone, a piece of jewelry; something that can equate into a tangible asset to recoup some of your deposit... I know nothing pays for distraught, anger, sadness, anxiety, etc. but hopefully something he has can suffice ??? It is always worth a try and I know a Lady with your wisdom will think of something to lessen the loss to yourself; never stop thinking...

I know I saw other posts and I have no clue what other vendors do but I put everyone's stuff in their own box with their name address and the particulars to the contents as one never knows when FATHER will call any of us home. I know it is life and I do the best I can to lessen the difficulties to my family and clients. But when you have been an engineer and corporation president in the manufacturing world for 30 years you learn to CYA and prepare for the unforeseen turn of events this life can and will throw at you in the blink of an eye ...

Once again I hope that you can get your ruby back and also some compensation for the loss in the deposit. Please do not lose your faith in all mankind because of a few bad apples in the barrel of life. I cannot tell you how many times I got took from rough vendors overseas with no recourse in any way form or fashion. I still buy; but I am a lot more leery and put in safeguards I used to not feel I needed; but times are not getting better in the world and it shows in so many trades.

I am sure everyone on this forum feels for you and hopes there will be light at the end of the tunnel for you.

I do wish for you and your family to have a wonderful New Year to come and may all this take a turn to a positive direction and only good things will come your way.

Most Respectfully;

Dana Reynolds
ASG Certified
Supreme Master gem Cutter
#96CGE42

 

[Arkteia]

Well, thank you, Dana!

I honestly think that if someone is a "one-man-show", does not outsource, does not repeat designs, does not use 3-d computers, but does everything by hand, and on top of it, does not have a business-savvy partner to run the business, people end up equal, at most, or in a minus! And add to it, does not have the art of communicating...

So, people have to take all orders they can, and end up not meeting the deadlines.

I also noticed that many people in the industry have a second profession to fall on, and some are leaving. Add to it that it is an artistic area, which women favor, and everything artistic means, personalities... in short, I understand people who try to be extremely down-to-earth and maintain neutrality.

The idea of a barter is an interesting one. And a sound one. There are many versions of it. But let us see what Scott comes up with first.