My story and about our talk last night

[upperleftsparkle]

Date: 3/27/2008 5:48:47 PM
Author: scm1012
My experience was slightly similar to yours in the sense that we are the same age, I still live at home(not moving until FI and I are married), were together 5 years by the time we got engaged and while I was sooo excited it was still bittersweet because it was such a huge step in both our lives, so to be honest, it was a little scary.

I wanted to get engaged at the 2 year mark. I got an itch and I raised hell. I wanted to get engaged and I wanted a ring. And my then BF didn''t budge. Thank goodness because we were not ready. I had binders of rings I loved...I started doing wedding-related research and pre-planning the wedding of the century. BF still would not budge. One birthday card he gave me around that time he wrote, ''I love you so much and I am working hard so I can give you the world but I am not ready to take the next big step in getting engaged.'' That really hit home for me. He loves me, but he''s just not ready yet. I could handle that.

At that point, I dropped the whole engagement thing. I tried my hardest to stop being so obsessed, tried my best to not mention it to my BF, and left the whole thing alone. Instead, I concentrated on our relationship as it was and the ways we could improve, get closer, become a better team. I had to practice living in the moment rather than fantasizing about the future so much.

Early in 2007, I told BF, ''I love you so much and I am not rushing you....i will wait forever....but I hope you make it happen soon.'' And I left it at that. Soon after he started looking at settings and stones all on his own. He''d e-mail me pics of what he liked and I did the same. This went on for months. We disagreed on settings, I wanted a solitaie and he wanted sidestones. I wanted a lower grade color(J) he wanted the best he could possibly afford.

And as this went on, I began to realize, I really didn''t care what he got me. To the point where one day when he was stressing about it I told him, ''I don''t want you spending over $_____ amount....why don''t you just get me a simple band, I will be thrilled with that.'' I totally meant this. You may not understand why I would say something so insane, but there is a reason for that.

To make a long story short, I ended getting exactly what my FI had envisioned for me. And let me tell you, I AM IN LOVE WITH MY RING. It was something I liked but didn''t really envision it on myself but when I saw it I knew it was perfect for me. And to know my FI chose it with me in mind and with all his heart so that makes it exquisite. And it really is gorgeous.

My honest opinion as a recent girlfriend and a newly engaged person is.....you''re not ready yet on any level. Your BF is not ready yet. And that is okay. Give him time. Tell him you will love whatever he picks out for you and mean it. Focus on your relationship as it is and learn how to make it more solid so that when the time is finally right you will both be ready for it.

I''ve just stumbled into this forum, and have been reading too much of it with a combination of awe and morbid curiosity. But the above-quoted piece is advice that many here should seriously take to heart. Great sentiment, and well said. Seriously. Worth a re-read for many around here.

 

[Dreamgirl]

Thank you everyone for your responses. After reading what everyone had to say, and taking a little time to ponder it, I almost feel as though I have had a revelation of sorts. Im starting to think that maybe I over analyze everything and Im in this kind of "process" of beginning to be ready for engagement but not quite there just yet. Perhaps that is why my head is filled with all sorts of thoughts/worries. And I think, I know that I am getting older. I will be 27 in July. And I start to realize that all these changes are about to happen to me and I have no idea when they will happen. Im thankful I stumbled across this forum because I think it will definately help me. It already has! Im just going to take a step back and try not to worry too much about everything. After all, I did say when hes interested, to ask me about all this at that time. So I kind of left the ball in his court now. Right?

NewEnglandLady-Im not sure we ever had a "serious" discussion about a marriage timeline but I always assumed somewhere between 28-31 by previous not so serious conversations. I would hope nowhere after 31 because we have after all been together for quite a while. But that time will roll around rather quickly. Maybe he threw in the age of 30 sarcastic comment because he expects to be married by or around then.

Also, he is considering going for his masters degree in the fall, but is uncertain because he says he wants to live his life. So that would be a major factor in when the engagement would happen. Masters degree =2 years. But, here is my question to you: creating a plan together sounds good. Even a general plan. But, how do I do that though when I told him i wouldn't talk about these things anymore? lol Wouldn't I just come across as annoying to him again?

scm1012- I love your advice and will take it to heart. Thank you. Your FI's comments in your birthday card reminds me of a letter he once wrote to me while on a trip to Wash DC in 2006. I was sad he had to go, so he wrote me a letter and he said "I don't mind being apart for most of the days I have to work because I know that each night I'm reminded of how pretty you are. I always loved how you've always admired me. I've got to have a good job because your not cheap(he drew a smiley face here)

But not only that but if I ever were to have a family you've got to be secure enough to be comfortable.

beebrisk- Im not sure when we will get engaged. My guess was a few years. I could be wrong. I just felt I wanted to be prepared with which ring I like. Before the Novo, I wasn't really sure what I liked.

Lastly, do you think I should appologize to him for my behavior? Also, do you think I should still show him the photos of cosmogrrl's and asianhoney's rings as I told him I would show him? Or should I just let that go? And my whole freak out reminds me of a FRIENDS episode "The One Where Everyone Turns 30" Here is a link to the scene which is kind of in a way, like me: http://youtube.com/watch?v=28FZtef3ZKA&feature=related

 

[icet]

Hi i''m a long time lurker, first time poster! i had to come out of lurkdom because i understand Dream. I had been with my DH for 7 years before i started noticing diamond rings and i was 26 years old! I was no where near ready to be married, had just graduated med school so i was broke, lived at home and stressed from too many years of school. To me, looking at diamond rings on the net was relaxing until i started wanting one! well i told BF at the time and he never took me seriously because he knew that i was no where near ready for an engagement ring even though we always talked vaguely about the future. i never really thought about marriage because i was too busy to, i just loved diamonds! i know, pretty childish but i am a late bloomer i guess. well anyway,my obsession calmed down when i started residency and i really "grew up" i.e living on my own, paying bills, bought my first car and my relationship with my now DH matured also. so just as i was getting used to being an independent person, DH knew I was finally at a point in my life where i was ready and surprised me with a simple romantic proposal and a lovely engagement ring and gave me another one on the one year anniversary of when we got engaged! (we married after being engaged for 6 months).
So i guess my point is (sorry for the long story) i know how you feel and i get how you are loving the ring idea but get nervous about getting married/engaged.
Don''t worry, enjoy looking and drooling at rings and when your time comes the MEANING of the ring will be just as exciting if not even more than the ring itself.
Good luck,
icet

 

[beebrisk]

Also, do you think I should still show him the photos of cosmogrrl''s and asianhoney''s rings as I told him I would show him? Or should I just let that go?

Yeah...I''ll say, let it go

Do you really think any picture you show your BF now will make any lasting impression on him for an engagement that might be 3-4 (or more?) years away?

Heck no! He''s a GUY...Guys only begin to "get" rings when they have to...That is, when they are ready to propose.

What''s the point of flooding him with info now, when you guys aren''t even talking engagement??

Let it go, have fun, dream about your future ring, and when the time is right, you can go crazy shoving pics in his face!

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Date: 3/27/2008 8:01:40 PM
Author: Dreamgirl

NewEnglandLady-Im not sure we ever had a 'serious' discussion about a marriage timeline but I always assumed somewhere between 28-31 by previous not so serious conversations. I would hope nowhere after 31 because we have after all been together for quite a while. But that time will roll around rather quickly. Maybe he threw in the age of 30 sarcastic comment because he expects to be married by or around then.

Also, he is considering going for his masters degree in the fall, but is uncertain because he says he wants to live his life. So that would be a major factor in when the engagement would happen. Masters degree =2 years. But, here is my question to you: creating a plan together sounds good. Even a general plan. But, how do I do that though when I told him i wouldn't talk about these things anymore? lol Wouldn't I just come across as annoying to him again?

I think having a conversation about being on the same page and wanting to create a plan for your future as a couple is completely different from having many conversations about the ring itself. I think the former, so long as you can discuss it calmly and with an open mind, shows him that you love him, are excited to spend your life with him and that you're happy to do it when you're both ready (even if neither of you is ready for it now). If the only thing you talk about in regards to the engagement is the ring, it might send the message that the ring itself is your primary focus and that you just want him to buy you an expensive (and pretty) gift. I'm not saying you should stop thinking about the ring...in fact I think it's wonderful that you found a ring that you feel passionately about. Heck, you can frame a picture of it and put it on your desk

For now, however, it sounds like there are some other issues that need to be sorted out first: does he agree that 28 - 31 is ideal for marriage, would his going back to school affect that timeline...even if he proposed now, you would probably be 28 by the time you got married (assuming you wouldn't get married until next year), so does that mean he's seriously starting to think about it. If you've never had a serious conversation about it, then I would think he'd be happy to have a conversation like this and I can't imagine he would be annoyed (unless the topic of marriage gives him the heebie jeebies--then you have a completely different problem!)

Good luck, you seem very sweet and I wish you the best!

 

[Dreamgirl]

Aw, thanks a lot! You seem quite lovely yourself. I appreciate your advice. I actually talk about weddings & marriage in genearal along with the ring stuff. Its like a whole package. Maybe if I talk to him about it, I will leave out the engagement and wedding talk and just ask more about the stuff after. Maybe I should think about how to talk to him about this before I just start talking and end up on a rant. Or, maybe I should just wait until he brings it up. Like wait until he makes some random comment in relation to it and then try to get a conversation going about it.

He does talk about it though unknowingly I think from time to time (that is, not very often.) But, for ex. we went to a wedding last summer and HE was making comments and asking me questions about wedding type stuff. I was blown away and glad to answer him! We thought the dj was playing the worst music and quite loud. Couldn't even talk to the person next to you. He was saying he likes slower music for dancing and not quite as loud and something about at his wedding it wont be like that. HA! We were recently talking about it and he said "That wedding was horrible!" Stuff like that.

 

[choro72]

I think what NewEnglandLady meant was not even about weddings, but more about if you two are on the same page concerning your future together. Forget about bad DJs, forget about horrible weddings, and forget about the ring. These are not the "futerey stuff", and should be the least of your worries now.
The question is, do the both of you have a plan (you obviously do), and are they acceptable to both of you. When you say 28-31, does he see it the same way? If you bring this up, is he going to hyperventilate and run? Many men say they won''t "feel" ready until 35. Will this be alright with you? Do you have a plan about having children? And many more...

Another suggestion. You say you won''t be ready until you''re at least 28. Once you get a satisfying conversation about your future, I suggest you drop it. You can keep browsing all you want (we all do this), but no talking about the stuff and the future. Just enjoy your relationship. Talking continuously about things that are not the present concern will only take away the fun from just being together.

 

[Smurfysmiles]

Date: 3/28/2008 1:27:54 AM
Author: choro72
I think what NewEnglandLady meant was not even about weddings, but more about if you two are on the same page concerning your future together. Forget about bad DJs, forget about horrible weddings, and forget about the ring. These are not the ''futerey stuff'', and should be the least of your worries now.

The question is, do the both of you have a plan (you obviously do), and are they acceptable to both of you. When you say 28-31, does he see it the same way? If you bring this up, is he going to hyperventilate and run? Many men say they won''t ''feel'' ready until 35. Will this be alright with you? Do you have a plan about having children? And many more...


Another suggestion. You say you won''t be ready until you''re at least 28. Once you get a satisfying conversation about your future, I suggest you drop it. You can keep browsing all you want (we all do this), but no talking about the stuff and the future. Just enjoy your relationship. Talking continuously about things that are not the present concern will only take away the fun from just being together.

ditto.

 

[Deelight]

Dreamgirl
I think I read your opening post a little differently to the most here (I did not read all the responses sorry) and I can relate to some of the things you posted. To me it just seems like a case of the OMG''s and then all of a sudden you get a little excited and a little worried and all these notions fall around and about into your head and you get strung out on all the little things that normally you would not think about andyou start to obsess about thing or a thing.

I double ditto to NewEnglandLady advice

GL

 

[beebrisk]

Date: 3/27/2008 11:37:27 PM
Author: Dreamgirl
He does talk about it though unknowingly I think from time to time (that is, not very often.) But, for ex. we went to a wedding last summer and HE was making comments and asking me questions about wedding type stuff. I was blown away and glad to answer him! We thought the dj was playing the worst music and quite loud. Couldn''t even talk to the person next to you. He was saying he likes slower music for dancing and not quite as loud and something about at his wedding it wont be like that. HA! We were recently talking about it and he said ''That wedding was horrible!'' Stuff like that.

Oooof. Honestly, each one of your posts seems to reinforce my original feeling that you are much too far away from being ready for marriage to be talking about (and obsessing over) engagement rings.

Forget the music, the dancing, the ring. Really. A few remarks about wedding music, dancing and such is NOT a discussion of marriage. Not even close. Not even in the same stratosphere.

I also think the fact that you are scared or sad and even "terrified" of leaving your Mom is a good sign, actually. It''s your heart and head telling you that you have some maturing to do before you make this most serious of commitments.

You guys sound like you love each other, and I hope there is a bright future ahead of you. Worry about your Novo a few years down the road...

 

[Dreamgirl]

I understood completely what NewEnglandLady suggested. Obviously I know that when he talked about those things at the wedding we attended, it isn''t our future he was mentioning. Trust me, we do casually talk about our future and what we want in the future. We have also discussed how we would live, children, pets, etc.. We have just never discussed any timelines. I never thought you could really put a deadline on something like that. In my head I figured somewhere before 30. I could be wrong. I just assumed he would propose whenever he felt we were both ready. I didn''t know we had to sit down and discuss when everything was going to happen. As I mentioned, I feel that Im on my way but not quite there just yet and I do have a few things to work on yet.

I don''t know, I mean I felt like I was possibly pressuring him about the ring stuff, but to sit down and have a serious talk and start asking him when we are going to start our life together, that would seem like more pressure on him.

(Btw: You have all been truly great but I don''t want everyone here perceiving me as a person who only dreams of the "material" things because I am not like that at all. Trust me, this was just the topic at hand really......)

deelight-Thank you for understanding me.

 

[icekid]

Date: 3/28/2008 12:26:28 PM
Author: Dreamgirl

I don''t know, I mean I felt like I was possibly pressuring him about the ring stuff, but to sit down and have a serious talk and start asking him when we are going to start our life together, that would seem like more pressure on him.

Having a serious talk about the future does not constitute pressure. You deserve to know what his intentions are for the future (if you want to know). However, I would certainly call the other things you have been doing pressure, in the overkill kind of way. I believe this is what NEL was referring to, and not the fact that he will casually mention "our wedding" won''t have loud bad music. Even though you told him you would not bring engagement up again, I don''t think he should find it annoying if you want to have a serious talk about where you are heading together. He might, however, find it annoying if you continue to drone on about the novo with no engagement in sight.

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

It sounds like you are giving some thought to what we have said which is great.
One thing to consider is that depending on where you are and what you want for a wedding and where you are, they can take quite some time to plan. When mine rolls around I will have been working on it for over a year which is a good thing because if I had started later the venue we wanted wouldn''t be available, with the dress trouble I have I wou;dn''t have time to get what I want, etc. If I lived in a really big city it probably would have taken longer.
A lot of guys don''t realize how long it takes to plan a wedding so he might propose at 29 and then not have the wedding until you are 31. Just something to consider.

To be perfectly honest, I think it is irresponsable to make such a big commitment as marriage without talking about your goals and plans first. I knew one couple who truely loved each other but just sort of trusted things to work out and found out too late that they differed on things like kids, education, goals for life, etc. It cost them their marriage when they really did love each other.

 

[Dreamgirl]

Date: 3/28/2008 12:43:21 PM
Author: icekid

Having a serious talk about the future does not constitute pressure. You deserve to know what his intentions are for the future (if you want to know). However, I would certainly call the other things you have been doing pressure, in the overkill kind of way.

Yeah, I know it was overkill. Im glad I realized that. And in a way, I think I always knew it was overkill because I would always feel a little bad afterwards. That's why I told him I would stop and came here to let it all out. I told him I would stop, and I will.

And now after talking with everyone here, I wished I had never done that to him. I also think I like the idea of one day looking together at rings (when we are ready.) I think he would like to be a part of the process. Im not sure he would actually do that though. I feel terrible. When I think about it, he has always had a say in what jewelery he bought me. There was stuff that he didn't like on me so he would get something else. And sometimes we would look at stuff together, and then he would decide what he wanted to purchase and give me that. I guess I just feel in love with something and have struggled to let that topic go. I don't even know how I would go about telling him maybe we can look together one day.

I guess now Im just not sure how to bring up the other discussion (future plans). Any advice on that would be great!

brazen- I think that's another reason Im so fussy about all of this. I figure it could take a 1 1/2 years to plan and he doesn't realize that. Honestly, if Im turning 27 this summer. And my guess was to be married around 30. That would mean I would be engaged in 1 1/2 years which isnt far away at all. That's where all this panic comes in. Because Im thinking "OMG it's going to happen soon so I have to tell him about all this stuff (but not ready yet)" Maybe by then, I will be. But I honestly don't know when we would get married. I told you Im a bit of a drama queen.

 

[Pandora II]

I don't think you need to have a big sit down and sort everything out at once and draw up a spreadsheet kind of way.

Things that FI and I discussed before we were engaged were:

- how would we feel if one of us was offered a job abroad and wanted to go and the other would be giving up their career to follow.

- whether we wanted children or not - looking at it from a financial/career/life changing point of view in serious detail.

- if I was pregnant and we discovered the baby had Down's Syndrome or another major problem would we both agree about a termination.

- how we felt about my working/not working once we had kids

- how our finances will work after marriage

- where we saw ourselves at 50 - kind of house, life etc

- whether we would put each other before our families - I don't do relatives, twice a year is enough, so that could have been a big deal for us.

- whether we shared the same basic values and ambitions for our lives.

We never discussed the music for our wedding, or the names of our future kids etc until we were engaged to be honest.

You don't need to discuss these kind of things in one go either.

IIRC there is a book called 1000 things to discuss before you get married or something similar - which might be an idea for you to get.

 

[Dreamgirl]

Yeah, I might look into that book. Ive looked at your list (and thanks for typing all that!)And we have discussed some of those things. So, I took your text and in bold is what we have discussed already from what you listed...

- how would we feel if one of us was offered a job abroad and wanted to go and the other would be giving up their career to follow.

- whether we wanted children or not - looking at it from a financial/career/life changing point of view in serious detail.

- if I was pregnant and we discovered the baby had Down''s Syndrome or another major problem would we both agree about a termination.

- how we felt about my working/not working (if) we had kids

- how our finances will work after marriage (I know this is a big one)

- where we saw ourselves at 50 - kind of house, life etc

- whether we would put each other before our families - I don''t do relatives, twice a year is enough, so that could have been a big deal for us.

- whether we shared the same basic values and ambitions for our lives.


So that''s not bad, right?

What else should he and I discuss? Anyone?

 

[princesss]

Date: 3/28/2008 2:37:54 PM
Author: Dreamgirl

So that''s not bad, right?

What else should he and I discuss? Anyone?

Talk about what you would do if the other was diagnosed with a chronic, degenerative disease, or if one of you were paralyzed in an accident.

Talk about if you would want to be kept alive on a ventilator, or just have them pull the plug.

Talk about what you would do if your parents became ill and needed constant care.

What you would do if the other person became addicted to alcohol/drugs.

I can''t think of any more right now, but I''m sure they''re all covered in that book.

 

[sunnyd]

You basically need to talk about anything that might come up in your lifetime. Because that''s how long marriage is supposed to be.

 

[Dreamgirl]

Yeah, the only problem with all of that is he hates it when I give him "What if?" scenarios.

 

[swimmer]

Hello!

This was in the NYTimes. My FI had saved it as a screen pic strangely enough just weeks before we met. Yeah, some guys just want to get married. We have revisited this list several times to see where we are on different things, some questions will apply to some folks more than others, but its good to have the open conversation.


December 17, 2006
Questions Couples Should Ask (Or Wish They Had) Before Marrying

Relationship experts report that too many couples fail to ask each other critical questions before marrying. Here are a few key ones that couples should consider asking:

1) Have we discussed whether or not to have children, and if the answer is yes, who is going to be the primary care giver?

2) Do we have a clear idea of each other’s financial obligations and goals, and do our ideas about spending and saving mesh?

3) Have we discussed our expectations for how the household will be maintained, and are we in agreement on who will manage the chores?

4) Have we fully disclosed our health histories, both physical and mental?

5) Is my partner affectionate to the degree that I expect?

6) Can we comfortably and openly discuss our sexual needs, preferences and fears?

7) Will there be a television in the bedroom?

Do we truly listen to each other and fairly consider one another’s ideas and complaints?

9) Have we reached a clear understanding of each other’s spiritual beliefs and needs, and have we discussed when and how our children will be exposed to religious/moral education?

10) Do we like and respect each other’s friends?

11) Do we value and respect each other’s parents, and is either of us concerned about whether the parents will interfere with the relationship?

12) What does my family do that annoys you?

13) Are there some things that you and I are NOT prepared to give up in the marriage?

14) If one of us were to be offered a career opportunity in a location far from the other’s family, are we prepared to move?

It is still on the NYTimes website and there is some interesting discussion posted after. This
commentary is also really well done.

 

[beebrisk]

...And you don''t need to address every single one of these issues right now at this very moment.

Every couple evolves at their own pace, but these are just a few points that are important to consider when you two are ready to take your relationship to the next level and you get down to the business of engagement and marriage.

In the meantime, these questions can definitely be used as catalysts for some interesting and frank discussions that will give you both a real understanding of each other and of the future stability of your relationship.

In the best cases, the answers will bring a couple closer in the knowledge that both parties are of like mind and heart. Conversely, they can quite literally tear a couple apart at the seams. That''s how important they really are.

This is all part of the learning and growing process each couple should go through before making the ultimate commitment, IMHO.

And when you''re ready, and if it''s right, the timeline, the ring and the wedding will all fall into place somehow.


Good Luck!

 

[bee*]

Swimmers list is a good list of things to discuss. When I first spoke to D, I just said to him that I''d like us to have a chat about our future. It doesn''t have to be a big huge ordeal, we just went for a drink and spoke over everything, when he was thinking for us to get engaged, married, kids etc. Things that he wanted to get done before we got engaged, what I''d like, when we''d like kids, who''d watch them, opinions on pets, how many, travel, where we''d like to live.

As others have said, I think just talking about the ring would put more pressure on him than this chat. You need to have this talk to make sure that you''re both still on the same page with your future. No wedding or ring chat in this conversation, just the two of you and where you both see yourselves.

 

[mimzy]

i''m not sure if this has been mentioned (i haven''t read every thread) but just in case it hasn''t....


it seems like the idea of getting married around age 30 is the source of a lot of your anxiety? what made that the magic number? you said that since you are near 27, that only gives you a year and a half until you get engaged, which makes you panic. what if you said "we''ll get engaged within three years"? would that make you breathe easier? the purpose of setting a timeline is to ease panic and anxiety, not to induce it. if you don''t want the pressure of knowing that in 18 months you have to be ready to get engaged, then don''t set that timeline.

you will ultimately be better off if you just let your relationship run it''s natural course and don''t force anything on yourself, much less him. 30 might "sound" like a good time to get married, but that number is totally arbitrary. live your life and when the thought of getting engaged and moving out doesn''t make you freak out, THEN is the perfect time to start thinking about marriage and talking about getting engaged.

if you do talk to him about it, i would make sure that first you know what YOU want and what YOU are comfortable with before asking anything of him. enjoy the time and look at rings, but try not to obsess, because it seems like even the ring is a source of anxiety. good luck!

 

[Dreamgirl]

Thank you, all of you. Im so greatful for your help! I find this talk I am having with all of you to be quite insightful. Im looking at all of this as a learning process and I think it has already started to help me as of yesterday. For some reason, it's making me feel more comfortable and relaxed. Maybe that is because I got it all out of my system and had a lot of help on how to deal with this. I was feeling so bad that I had to keep doing that to him. I really do think I want to have some sort of a "talk" with him. I think I will do that, and nothing too serious, but enough to know what's going on in his head. I also think it's good that he and I have discussed some of this already.

swimmers- Thanks for your list, there are some good ones on there and I also read the article.

bee- I really like your point. I dont want to dog him with tons of questions, I think I will go about my new discussion with him as you did and then maybe some of the other stuff randomly and not all at the same time.

You are all so great! Im so happy to be apart of this family! Good thing I joined PS because I think we will have many more talks until my time comes and then after too! Thanks.

 

[gwendolyn]

I think having a talk with him will put your mind at ease much more than getting him to nod his head at a picture of the Tiff Novo. And yes, I completely agree that it shouldn''t be preceded with the doom & gloom approach of "HONEY...WE REALLY NEED TO TALK." Just casually mention when the time seems right (ie: when the TV or computer isn''t on) that you''re wondering if he''s thought about when he''d like to get married, and then, if you guys are on the same page with that, you can talk about how long you''d like to be engaged to give you enough time to plan, so there''s a timeline set up.

 

[D2B]

Hi Dreamgirl

Reading your and others posts, one thing has me worried (and you may have covered this, and I just havnt read it clearly, or you havnt mentioned it on here), but YOU say you have a timeline in your head, (reasonable I might add), but how do you really know that this is where your boyfriend sees your relationship heading? You have been toghether a long time, no need for either party to feel emabarrassed about a serious talk about the future in terms of do your goals of marriage and children by xx age align.

I have seen one particular friend who waited and waited to marry her boyfriend, who in the end decided that he wasnt ready to marry at all. Meantime, she had invested years in a realtionship with different end goals. She is in her 30''s now and worried about meeting Mr Right and children. I guess, in my longwinded way I am saying are you really sure that you both want to get married by xx year, if yes, leave him alone and enjoy the relationshop, butdont assume this, if not - please talk to him about the big picture stuff and ensure you are on the same page.

Good luck
D2B